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Do a search for "users don't change default settings" (or similar) and the dominant view is that most users don’t change default settings. I am not aware of any surveys or reports that show the opposite but would love to read them if they exist.

A few examples discussing user habits regarding default settings:

https://medium.com/choice-hacking/h...ansform-your-customer-experience-869cdb140d78

https://archive.uie.com/brainsparks/2011/09/14/do-users-change-their-settings/

https://www.cnet.com/tech/tech-industry/default-settings-for-privacy-we-need-to-talk/

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/dec/01/default-settings-change-phones-computers
Is that why as noted above people download the chrome browser or Firefox. Or specifically how many iOS users keep their default. But I’ll give credit where credit is due you came up with some generalized studies ranging from 2 to 13 years old that specifically may not be applicable to iOS. Of course in 13 years it’s possible things have changed dramatically. In other words, going from the general to the specific is extremely important here. And not to poke holes, one blog cites prior research, another analyzes Microsoft word. And additionally there are hundreds of defaults I wouldn’t expect any reasonable user, even power user, to know them all. But I sure as shooting know which search engine I want to use. And expect people know which ones they want anyway. Even if iPhone users dont change the default, as my wife didnt , but she managed to download the google app and download chrome. And imo people will do that.
Apple's actions are similar to (although getting paid significant to do so) someone, a company, a newspaper, etc. endorsing a candidate. Obviously, individual can vote for a different candidate just as someone can change the default but by setting Google as the default Apple is endorsing. validating, justifying, etc. use of Google search to its users.
No apple isn’t endorsing. They are accepting a highest bidders fee.
The same would be true with they made DDG the default. In that case, however, it would at least be more in-line with Apple’s claimed privacy beliefs. Of course, they money wouldn't be there which is why Apple has chosen not to do so.
Of course this goes round and round with some claiming Apple is hypocritical to others claiming the internet doesn’t change with this fee.
If Apple selected a different search engine as default, Google would lose traffic from Safari users.
Sure and Bing, for example COULD gain assuming iOS users aren’t dumb as doorknobs and know how to enter another search engine.
I clearly used the words POSSIBLE and ALLEGED.
We are all speculating here because there are no hard and fast facts. Only hard and fast opinions.
 
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I'd settle for Safari on windows again... only tangentially related to the article but I'd love to see safari expand and a real google competitor that wasn't duckduckgo. Makes you wonder what Steve J would have done in this situation - continue with a google deal just to make money and keep the status quo or move the overall market. I don't know - interesting thought experiment.
 
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I have been using duckduckgo for my personal devices and bing for my work computer.

I only will use Google for stackoverflow and css/html news.

Same. I only use Google when I need to double-or-triple-check something I can’t find in DDG, usually 1-2 searches a week, at most.

I set the default search engine on my iPhone and iPad Pro to DuckDuckGo myself. Google search is not as useful as it used to be.

Google does one thing very, very well; however, well vs. wholesome has become a wider consideration for me when it comes to the web.
 
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Maybe Apple could give a tutorial on search engines as one of the screens during initial setup. I guess they could allow selection at that time.

I was an engineering technician working in a hospital with doctors and nurses, possibly the lowest-tech people you're going to find. When we set up monitoring systems we tried to get them involved in setting preferences. They generally weren't interested so we set up a basic clean config and had them tweak it at their leisure.
 
Check out Tab Groups in Safari. It does exactly what you're describing here, and they sync between any device you're running Safari on (provided you're signed in with the same Apple ID). You can also share a tab group and everyone sees the same tabs.

I use this at work constantly and it works brilliantly. The syncing of tabs happens very quickly, such that I can open a new tab on my MacBook and see it open in the same tab group on my iMac in seconds.
Thanks, I’ll have to check that out. I find it really useful to be able to categorize all of my bookmarks by type, yes, for work for certain, but also for personal interests.
 
Didn’t know bookmarking was still a thing in 2023. Reminds me of good ole days of digg.
Use what’s needed for your use case, and make sure those extensions aren’t snooping on what you do in the browser. You pretty much give access to browser for these extensions.
How would you find the same sites quickly each time you want to visit without a bookmark? I have several hundred, if not more, bookmarks organized in this way.

I don’t disagree about the possibility of browser-data snooping by extensions (or any application) such as this. I just think that for the value I get out of it I don’t mind if that is the case. And it’s not like Google Chrome hasn’t already vacuumed up everything I’ve read and visited for the past 15 years. Of course, I would prefer a guarantee of privacy, but I don’t know if that is realistic without going to great lengths every single web action I take.
 
Yes. I mentioned in a previous post (#53) that users can change the default. The reality is that most users don't bother to do so and by making Google the default search, Apple is essentially endorsing use of Google, pushing traffic to Google, etc. and this is a reason why Google pays Apple so much money. Another possible reason, and the main topic of the article, is the alleged non-compete element which would be an antitrust violation.
Honestly, I change my search engine to DuckDuckGo on all of my iphones for the past few years, and I’m not sure it is really any better than Google in terms of valid and valuable results returned. I still see ads as the first results, sometimes many, many obviously promoted results. On my desktop, I’ve kept Google as my main search engine, and it has gotten worse and worse with each passing year in quality yield.
 
Safari has Tab Groups that let you group your tabs and switch between groups. Not sure if that matches your needs or not.

This is an article on the feature. It is Mac focuses but the feature is also avaiable in iOS and iPad OS

I use a similar feature in FireFox via a plugin called Panorama Tab Groups. It lets me switch tabs when I switch between projects with a single click.
Nice, thank you for the recommendation!
 
How would you find the same sites quickly each time you want to visit without a bookmark? I have several hundred, if not more, bookmarks organized in this way.

I don’t disagree about the possibility of browser-data snooping by extensions (or any application) such as this. I just think that for the value I get out of it I don’t mind if that is the case. And it’s not like Google Chrome hasn’t already vacuumed up everything I’ve read and visited for the past 15 years. Of course, I would prefer a guarantee of privacy, but I don’t know if that is realistic without going to great lengths every single web action I take.
I use spotlight search, that is easier than going through menus. Safari also assigns short cut keys to open bookmarks, I have few frequently visited sites on shortcuts.
I am not giving control of my browser for convenience, they could theoretically capture every bit of information including confidential data.
 
This is humorous but special none the less - you'd have to look far and wide to find a more toxic, schadenfreude-esque, "yes men" fanbase than that of Apple.

As for your second statement: the "benign" issue of anti-competitive behavior set aside - if not for these same watchdogs that make sure people aren't forced a choice then there'd be even bigger monopolies. Not every user is tech-savvy. I'm installing Cat 6A cables and a 10gbit switch to make a backhaul for upcoming WiFi7 standard. And I can both choose a different browser and search engine and whatever else and that's fine for me. The "regular Joe", and even more so Joe's old mother does not necessarily know about cross-site tracking, broswer and search engine choices, right to repair and fair access to spare parts and tooling for a fair price - yet at some point in time they both will be affected adversely be it Meta having a trove of data on both, being offered search results that were slanted either economically or politically, or ending up paying more for a repair and/or being s*rewed over by an "authorised" repair shop that either over-charges them or forces to buy a new replacement for a repair job that was perfectly doable for a fraction of the cost.
My trade is not exactly networks and computers but it's "right around the corner". When I do a job regulations, engineering and best trade practices make sure what I do is done right and the customer does not have to be an expert - or even in any remote way knowledgeable - in my field, but can be 100% sure what has been done has been done so correctly.
Same goes for both Apple and Google - so that not the end user has to poke around, read up, get the "minimum required skills and understanding" on how to make the device or service work - that has to be the duty of the manufacturer! And what really sickens me is when there's on one side this toxic fanboy expectation "well if you just..." or the even more passive-aggressive "just buy something else! We like this, like your other stuff then!". It's a product, made by a big company using other big company's services, and should be to the end user plain as day and simple.
I understand that there is an adversarial judicial system in the USA and for some reason this has often times been the case in relations between manufacturer and users, but exactly to eliminate that kind of moronic economic darwinism (for the lack of a better term) at least the civilized people in the EU make sure every so often NOT something originating from a classic american class action nonsense - but a law from a judicial body that is taking action makes sure this kind of nonsense stays out from the east end of the Atlantic.

Wow! You’re amaze balls!!!

40+ years here working with computers and dealing with users. Seen it all, done it all.

Thanks for sharing though.

And no you wouldnt have to go far to find fanboys of any product or company. You’re completely delusional if you think so. The simple fact that you think Apple fans are the worst shows that you only troll Apple sites.
 
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Next to Websters dictionary of Late Stage Capitalism .... would be this article...
Which is really not that different from…earlier stage Capitalism. Look at the Gilded Age of train barons vs today’s tech barons and it looks like much is as it once was. From lack of accountability in terms of publishing, to lack of accountability in terms of all kinds of crime in banking, finance, societal violence…
 
I use spotlight search, that is easier than going through menus. Safari also assigns short cut keys to open bookmarks, I have few frequently visited sites on shortcuts.
I am not giving control of my browser for convenience, they could theoretically capture every bit of information including confidential data.
So for every single webpage you go to visit, you use search first? That seems a really roundabout and slow way to access pages you visit regularly. I understand there can be a privacy trade-off, but I’m not willing to ‘search’ for every site that I want to visit - or even type them out, when I can just click on my saved sites already easily categorized by me according to my preferences and frequency of use.
 
So for every single webpage you go to visit, you use search first? That seems a really roundabout and slow way to access pages you visit regularly. I understand there can be a privacy trade-off, but I’m not willing to ‘search’ for every site that I want to visit - or even type them out, when I can just click on my saved sites already easily categorized by me according to my preferences and frequency of use.
Not at all. If there is a bookmark I haven’t accessed in a while, I just start typing, it pops up with out typing the whole words, one click you are on the webpage. I find it lot simpler than organizing, maintaining the bookmarks. Let the OS index/manage the history and bookmarks. If it’s frequently used bookmark , it will be suggested by safari as I start typing. I rather have OS automate than give my keys to confidential information to a third party extension. Honestly, I use very handful of websites, I am surprised your work allows you to use extensions on chrome. Hope your company doesn’t deal with confidential information.
 
To you and all the people asking for DuckDuckGo as the main search engine: did you try it extensively enough ? Do you think is comparable ?
I've used DuckDuckGo exclusively since many years ago. It has been more than comparable for all my search needs, yes, thank you. Granted I'm not a NASA engineer and I'm not discovering the cure for cancer, but I'd say is more than enough for 99.9% of users.
 
They were bought by Oracle? It's people like McNealy who built the industry, whether his company survived or not.
Nope. He was an MBA who added very little to the industry and was wrong on almost every major technology decision he made. Hence why I am not really interested in his views on privacy.
Unless, of course, you want to write a porn app, a companion app for your vape, etc. Then it's up to Apple to make the decisions.
I have no problem with porn being in the App Store (nor Vape or Crypto apps), but it is Apple’s store and I am fine with where they draw the line.
And no, I don't expect Apple to do prevent tracking. Shrill fanboy defenses are so boring.
I love people like you who argue that anyone who disagrees with you is a fanboy. I do not think Apple cares about me at all (either personally or as a customer). What I do think is that at this moment on this topic our interests are aligned. As long as that is the case, I am happy. When it stops being the case is will switch to someone else whose interests are more aligned with mine.
Apple talks out both sides of it's mouth.
Nope. Apple talks about providing information and letting the user decide if he or she wishes to be tracked.
It pillories Google for violating privacy...
Sorry, this is just not true. It advocates letting people make informed decisions, as Steve Jobs used to say: Ask the user if they are ok with having their information collected and then ask them again later (and again every once in a while), so they can make their own decision and can easily change their minds.

Please provide some example of them “pillory”ing Google. They rarely if ever directly discuss anyone else’s behavior.

only to take $15B/year from them to make a privacy invading search engine the default on all Apple devices.
Microsoft takes no money from Google and yet Google is the dominant search on Windows. Is it possible that the bulk of users would switch to Google even if Apple picked a different one as the default? If not, how come Windows users were able to switch both their browser and their default search engine? If people would have switched anyway, in what way is is problematic that they got paid for a choice people would have made anyway?

It sells the idea that "what happens on iPhone stays on iPhone" only to let its developers track pretty much whatever they want.
Again, they are talking about their own actions, but what is important that they do is let users make informed decisions about if or how they are tracked. Their actions have made things better. The world may not yet be perfect, but without their actions things would be much, much worse.

I don't necessarily disagree with your perspective, but, unlike you, I'm willing to call a spade a spade.
Nah, you claim that privacy is impossible, but criticize Apple’s attempts to improve the situation because they have yet to reach perfection. You pretend to be a great impartial observer, but ignore reality.

It makes perfect sense. Apple happily deceives customers with its illusion of privacy, publicly bashes a competitor for being anti-privacy only to take that competitor's money and make that competitor's privacy-invading search engine the default on all Apple devices...
Again, please provide examples of them “publicly bash[ing] a competitor”. Explain how it “deceives customers”? How is it an illusion of privacy? They provide people the ability to make informed choices. Before they did this, no one was doing it. No even Google has begun to offer that.


Apple's whole privacy dog and pony show is just that, a show. I appreciate that they're more honest than the rest, but they're far from honest. Privacy is marketing spin to them. Like I said, means to an end $$$.
Is it your contention that Apple’s privacy labels are false or that people are no more informed about how their information will be used than before they were instituted? Do you claim that App Tracking Transparency has no effect?

Do you think that all the reports that the vast majority of users on iOS/iPadOS/tvOS opt in on for ATT are false?

Privacy is not spin, but it is marketing. Their interests currently align with mine. Since they do not make the bulk of their revenue selling advertising, they can offer a more private and transparent system than do their competitors, and have that be a marketing win for them.

However, let me ask you some simple questions to clarify your position:

  • Do you think that users on iOS/iPadOS/tvOS are tracked more or less than on Android?
  • Do you think that users are more able to make informed choices since Apple instituted both ATT and their App Privacy report card?
  • Do you think that Apple hides that Facebook and Google track users from users or do they make it harder for them to do so without informing customers?
  • Do you think that, despite the example of Windows users overwhelmingly picking Google as their default search engine, that were Apple to have made Bing or DuckDuckGo the default choice, that most users would not have switched to Google?
 
Safari is a credible challenger to Chrome though. I'm hard pressed to find features missing from Safari that are available in Chrome save for a larger extension ecosystem. I suspect most people use Chrome for its familiarity or because they want to more readily sync bookmarks/favorites/passwords with an existing Google account (or because they simply prefer it, much like why I use Firefox).

Credible competitor indeed.

Yet point # 22 in the article really explains it all: if Apple did drop Google and make their own search as part of the iOS/iPadOS/MacOS ecosystem - they’d be right up in-front of antitrust lawsuit for a monopoly from top to bottom in their os!

Think Microsoft ie on windows or now Teams pre-installed (with 2 installers listed on programs and features needed to remove to rid yourself of MS Teams).
 
Changing from Google to DuckDuckGo is one of the first things I do with any new device.
Terrible search results especially searching phone numbers (too many sms spam). Until Canada’s laws from crtc align with the usa’s for carriers to block unwanted spam and restrictions were screwed. So I Google search numbers the validate unknown numbers or block outright.

I did that a few years ago. It's not quite as good as Google, but it's very good.

Best of all, it's more like the Google of 5-10 years ago, where it just tried to find you pages relevant to your search rather than all of the other crap that Google puts on the search result pages now.

Agreed. DDG has improved from a. Year ago but it’s still lacking.
I used them for many years and wasn't disappointed until they started censoring searches like G does. Now I'm on Brave and it's pretty good.
Brave is THE worst browser experience I’ve ever come across since 1996! I have to enable so much just to get across popular sites
Thank you. This seemed like a very bizarre statement in the article. I use Safari almost exclusively and am perfectly happy with it. I keep Edge around as my first choice of Chromium browsers (if needed), and a copy of Chrome that is never opened.

Likewise using Safari as primary choice on iOS/iPadOS and macOS. Edge + Chrome is now become the default for work PC (windows only choice) as ServiceNow, SharePoint 365 pages as well as on-premise legacy and in-house web apps authenticate SSO best. Firefox only for personal bookmark sync and access.
 
because they know if they switched search engines, people would be switching back to google without the billions
Apple believe in choice so they allow the user to change and quite easily at that.

How is this deal, beyond being supposedly secret, any different from $5Bil non-voting share purchase from mIcrosoft upon 1999 Jobs return where EI was the default browser on MacOS 9 and early Puma (osx) ??
 
Safari is a credible challenger to Chrome though. I'm hard pressed to find features missing from Safari that are available in Chrome save for a larger extension ecosystem. I suspect most people use Chrome for its familiarity or because they want to more readily sync bookmarks/favorites/passwords with an existing Google account (or because they simply prefer it, much like why I use Firefox).

On my Mac, chrome is used mainly for running google docs (so I can reserve my work google account for that). Everything else is done in safari (which runs off my personal gmail account). I like features like the integrated share sheet and reading list.
 
Apple believe in choice so they allow the user to change and quite easily at that.

How is this deal, beyond being supposedly secret, any different from $5Bil non-voting share purchase from mIcrosoft upon 1999 Jobs return where EI was the default browser on MacOS 9 and early Puma (osx) ??
I’d say both Apple and Google’s size and the market size and impact of both.

The MS and Apple example you gave, is probably similar in scope now to Google paying Firefox to keep Google as its default option, where FF is a very minor player in browsers currently, as was Apple in PC market share in the late 90s.

Also Microsoft lost an antitrust case all to do with IE. On Windows admittedly.

But it was, I’d argue, part of the background where it was using its OS market share and the resulting $ from that, to fully crush Netscape.

As a footnote: was Jobs wrong to accept this? I think he had to, as part of helping to keep Apple alive. The creation of Safari when Apple was stronger speaks volumes.
 
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G pays Mozilla to stay out of the search business and also make their search engine the default in FFX.
- Mozilla also gives people the ability to choose a different search engine (i.e., Ecosia, Yahoo, Bing, and DDG).

Google pays Mozilla to be the default search on Firefox but isn’t being alleged to ALSO be paying them to stay out of the search business. I don't know what the government is basing its argument against Apple on regarding "staying out of the search business" (which is the alleged antitrust violation piece being discussed here) but one aspect may be the amount being paid to Apple compared to the amount being to Mozilla.

When looking at the global share for both browsers, Safari's is over 6 times greater than Firefox yet Apple is being paid over 30 times more than Mozilla. Therefore, it is possible that Apple is being paid much more because it's not only to make Google the default but ALSO to stay out of the search business while Mozilla is being paid much less because it's strictly to make Google the default.
 
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Honestly, I change my search engine to DuckDuckGo on all of my iphones for the past few years, and I’m not sure it is really any better than Google in terms of valid and valuable results returned. I still see ads as the first results, sometimes many, many obviously promoted results. On my desktop, I’ve kept Google as my main search engine, and it has gotten worse and worse with each passing year in quality yield.

I was just using DuckDuckGo as an example of a more privacy-friendly option but realize they're not perfect either.

DDG does display ads too (that's how they make the bulk of their money) but claim the ads are strictly based on search criteria and not personal/tracking information Google and other search engines use.
 
It’a a fair discussion. So many here including you tout apple for their privacy efforts. Yet it’s clearly not the case here as it’s about the money.

Apple had the optics of caring about you. Guess what? They don’t.


apple takes billions from google and reinvests into privacy measures. they actually do care about privacy.
 
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