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I get what you're saying, and had Apple performed a bait-and-switch, I would agree with you.

But iPhone and iPad were always like this. Hundreds of millions of people bought them (with extremely high satisfaction scores) just the way they are.

The closed, controlled ecosystem was always the value proposition for these platforms.

And if you recall, the 30% cut Apple takes was considered an AWESOME deal for developers at the time.

So what has actually changed since 2008?

Not Apple, not iPhone, but rather some people's opinion of how Apple's platform should operate.

Well, that's not exactly true; the network effects of having such a large installed base gives Apple a lot of power to make even more money.

What is unclear to me is what is the best course of action here; do we force all companies to be "open" even though people bought into them because they were closed and controlled?

That doesn't seem like a clear-cut win, either.

Do we prevent Apple from offering new integrated services because that, in a sense, is taking advantage of their monopoly position within its own platforms? (This is what is happening with Microsoft and it including Teams in Office in the EU)

That seems like a terrible approach to prevent vertically integrated companies from offering more integrated services.

These are difficult questions to answer because laws should apply evenly to all companies; you can't just make exceptions for one company here and another one there.

In other words, this stuff is complicated and IMO going for quick fixes is more likely to result in even worse outcomes, which is why I remain cautious of any legislative solutions to these complex topics.
We could also ask what’s changed for Google, why are they now an alleged monopolist, when 20 years ago the regulators were focused instead on Microsoft.

What’s changed for Apple is that the App Store is now integrated into society, the iPhone/ipad have billions of users Apple is making multiple billions of dollars from the App Store. It is big business now, not a nascent new platform. And with big business, comes government scrutiny.

Reasonable minds can disagree. My personal opinion is the iPhone should have the option for alternative app stores / app distribution just like Macintosh. Let users decide. We are paying customers after all. But I can see the other side of the argument as well, it’s Apple’s platform they built it.
 
The type of deal would only be illegal for Google to enter into as they are the ones guilty of being a monopolist. Neither Apple or Microsoft have been found guilty of being monopolists in the search engine market, so there’d be nothing stopping them from entering into an agreement. It would be rather odd for Apple or Microsoft to be punished for Google’s wrongdoing!
Its fascinating how you portray Apple and Microsoft as victims.

I suspect Microsoft would jump at the chance.
I'm not sure they will. They make way less money than Google Search anyway.
Also disn't Apple execs say they don't just set Google Search as the default for the money but because its the best. How will that go? Really curious.
 
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Its fascinating how you portray Apple and Microsoft as victims.


I'm not sure they will. They make way less money than Google Search anyway.
Also disn't Apple execs say they don't just set Google Search as the default for the money but because its the best. How will that go? Really curious.
I’m not portraying either of them as victims, but neither party is subject to being found to be a monopolist in the search engine market. I’m not sure why you’d expect the remedy to impact Apple or Microsoft’s ability to enter into a business arrangement since neither have been found to have done anything wrong.

Bing is very assuredly likely to make a lot more money if it were set as the default on iOS. I’m sure someone at Microsoft is making those calculations now.

I suspect Apple would prefer to take the money.
 
How many people would actually stick with Bing as the default vs switching to Google Search the first chance they got?
I would say many people will want to go back to Google after they experience Bing's inferior results. So people that really don't know how to use gadgets and don't have anybody around to help them will probably stick with Bing.
With Google, it's easy to see why they went ahead with the deal. Search is actually still pretty good, users don't really hate the service, and neither party is really losing anything here.
Out of convenience obviously. There's no platforms where Google Search is not the dominat search engine. In the EU you have to choose your default search engine on Android, windows etc., most people choose Google anyway.
 
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I would say many people will want to go back to Google after they experience Bing's inferior results. So people that really don't know how to use gadgets and don't have anybody around to help them will probably stick with Bing.

Out of convenience obviously. There's no platforms where Google Search is not the dominat search engine. In the EU you have to choose your default search engine on Android, windows etc., most people choose Google anyway.
It’s also true that most people don’t change the default either. So Bing being set as the default has the potential to be very disruptive to the search engine market. But then that’s precisely what we want to happen!
 
I’m not portraying either of them as victims, but neither party is subject to being found to be a monopolist in the search engine market. I’m not sure why you’d expect the remedy to impact Apple or Microsoft’s ability to enter into a business arrangement since neither have been found to have done anything wrong.

Bing is very assuredly likely to make a lot more money if it were set as the default on iOS. I’m sure someone at Microsoft is making those calculations now.

I suspect Apple would prefer to take the money.
Well apple is an enabler so they are an accomplice not a victim. And don't get me talking about Microsoft, they would do worse in Google’s position.
 
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Well apple is an enabler so they are an accomplice not a victim. And don't get me talking about Microsoft, they would do worse in Google’s position.
It’s just a business deal. Apple will happily make the deal with another company if Google are prevented from being able to participate.
 
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It's been thought that Apple has avoided building their own Spotlight search engine because the deal with Google is more lucrative but without it, nothing is stopping them from acquiring DuckDuckGo or another startup to get a jump start.

Apple has long had an industry leading search on their devices. Since the introduction of Spotlight in OS X Tiger in 2005, it's remained ahead of Windows with real time results that hadn't existed before Mac OS X. iOS Search provides its own results alongside Google, Wikipedia and other sources but has been holding back, featuring Google because of this deal. I'm looking forward to Apple finally opening the floodgates with a native web search engine now that Google can't buy its way in.
 
[…]
Google will still remain the most popular search engine on apple's platforms anyway. If people will be forced to choose the default search engine, we know most will choose Google. […]
That’s sort of the point, Google has been found to have violated antitrust law by paying billions to make its search engine the default with Apple, Samsung, and others for years. i.e. exerting its market dominance unfairly, it stifled competition, so there is no one else.
 
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Isn’t the classic valuation of a company to multiply its earnings by 20 years? Did Apple potentially just lose half a trillion in value? Asking for a friend… :) I’ve been holding AAPL for 15 years now starting to lose faith!!
If you held on to Apple stock that long you made a small fortune. 1000 dollars invested in Apple 20 years ago is almost $450,000.00
 
That sounds like short term thinking which Apple rarely does. It also sounds like a slam dunk for another monopoly ruling against Apple. The most popular phone platform defaults to their own search engine. Even Apple fans can see the clear violation.

Since we'd be talking about default on Safari, it would be more of a Safari share issue than an iPhone share issue. Regardless, it will depend on how the court ultimately rules regarding companies (like Google) being the default search on their own browsers (like Chrome). Most of the focus was on Google's default search agreements with OTHER browser companies.
 
Apple would be in the same pickle as Google if they came up with their own search engine.

Google was in a pickle because of its dominance in search and engaging in anticompetitive behavior by paying billions to be the default search on browsers to try to maintain or increase their dominance. If Apple created its own search engine, it wouldn't necessarily be able to achieve significant market share, pay $$$ to be default, etc.
 
I wonder if Microsoft will think 20b is worth it to take away a sizeable chunk of Google’s traffic and profits?

Some amount but not likely $20 billion. With Google out of the picture, Microsoft is not competing with anyone for that default position. With no meaningful player "bidding" against them, there would be less reason to pay up to that level. It will also depend on how far the Google default "ban" extends outside the U.S. Bing may only be able to become the default in the U.S. and other select countries.
 
That’s sort of the point, Google has been found to have violated antitrust law by paying billions to make its search engine the default with Apple, Samsung, and others for years. i.e. exerting its market dominance unfairly, it stifled competition, so there is no one else.
But Eddy Cue said Google’s search engine is the best, that's why its number 1. Did he lie?
Anyway articles online only talk about the Apple-Google deal, not about Samsung and Android.
Google’s search engine is the dominant one even on markets where its not set by default like for example in the EU. How do you explain that?
 
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Some amount but not likely $20 billion. With Google out of the picture, Microsoft is not competing with anyone for that default position. With no meaningful player "bidding" against them, there would be less reason to pay up to that level. It will also depend on how far the Google default "ban" extends outside the U.S. Bing may only be able to become the default in the U.S. and other select countries.
I’m only assuming that bing would be the obvious choice, but as it’s a rev share model pretty much any search engine could step in, in theory.
 
It is 5 % of the revenue of the largest company in the world (by market cap) for doing nothing, that’s the sweet part.

I think it needs to stop being called "nothing." Apple still had to continue to spend money on Safari to keep it a viable browser which enough people would use in order to justify Google's HUGE payment to be the default search.
 
But Eddy Cue said Google’s search engine is the best, that's why its number 1. Did he lie?
Anyway articles online only talk about the Apple-Google deal, not about Samsung and Android.
Google’s search engine is the dominant one even on markets where it’s not set by default like for example in the EU. How do you explain that?
It would be irrelevant which search engine Apple thinks is best if Google are prohibited from competing for default status. Apple would have to then select whichever they think is the second best search engine.
 
Regarding this ruling, people need to keep in mind that it would specifically apply to the U.S. market. Google would potentially still be able to be the default search on browsers outside the U.S. Of course, other countries can reach similar antitrust conclusions too.
 
Business relation.
A lucrative contract for both and most likely Google didn't want to go against apple, knowing how petty apple is as a company(this is very obvious by looking at apple's relation with Nvidia). But now, this works in their favor and apple can't do anything about it and has no excuse to sabotage Google.

wait you're arguing that google paid 20 BILLION DOLLARS A YEAR because they didn't want to anger Apple?

20 billion is the entire revenue of the 204th biggest company (Goodyear FWIW) on the Fortune 500 list and they just gave it away for "business relations"?
 
It would be irrelevant which search engine Apple thinks is best if Google are prohibited from competing for default status. Apple would have to then select whichever they think is the second best search engine.
Oh, so apple will sacrifice quality for money. Noted.
Also like I said they have the ability to provide users the choice to select their default search engine whentheyopenthe app, but money is more important.
 
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