Google and TweetDeck Executives Respond to Jobs' Anti-Android Comments

[ksgant]

Someone has an iPhone another has a Black Berry. How come I can't run your apps?!?!?

Dude, the manufacturer made the apps. They released it for their handsets. Also, there are plenty of alternatives in the Android Market that look the same if someone searches. HTC had no power to "reject" those for "duplicate functionality" either.

That's not how they see it, they're both Android phones. It's like HP made this computer but Dell made this one...but they both run Windows.

HTC makes this phone but Motorola makes this phone...but they both run Android.

I'm just saying what these two non-geeks were concerned with. It was confusing to them and quite frankly it's confusing to a lot of people.

 

[ViViDboarder]

They are right there on their iPhone that just became an iPod Touch...

This defeats the purpose of having an all-in-one device.

I bought Galcon on my iPhone. Switched to Sprint. Now what do I do? I'm not going to carry my old phone around.

My point was that if I'm on one carrier with an Android Phone. All my apps will carry over to any new Android phone on any carrier.

 

[scriptx]

android will eventually turn out like windows... there is no possible way that the developers will be able to test all the different combos of hardware and software versions that are going to be floating around.

They had to test over 200 different device configurations for tweet deck now just think of how many combos they will have to test in a year or two.

No developer, Mac or Windows is going to test on each device. To be thorough they would have to do a full regression test, which would drive any company into oblivion. You test on the platform, then only test portions that could be substantially different, e.g. how connections change when moving from wifi to data. If Google got it right, the OS will dictate that and not the hardware so they don't even have to test there. Other than that, screen resolutions, but given their are so many, most developers likely make their apps dynamic in that respect out the door.

 

[mabaker]

Honestly... It's like people have never heard of Java and Virtual Machines.

You mean some type of second class virtual machine called Dalvik? Or how about total and direct access to the hardware with a complete GNU/Linux toolchain, instead of having a slimmed-down, diverged Linux kernel and that second class virtual machine (Dalvik) on top of it to run everything for you?

Android ain’t no rosy garden either.

 

[Benjamins]

With the official iPhone/iPad twitter app, I wonder why they still exist.

 

[ViViDboarder]

That's not how they see it, they're both Android phones. It's like HP made this computer but Dell made this one...but they both run Windows.

HTC makes this phone but Motorola makes this phone...but they both run Android.

I'm just saying what these two non-geeks were concerned with. It was confusing to them and quite frankly it's confusing to a lot of people.

My mom understood just fine. She has a Samsung Moment (Stock Android), my brother has a HTC Hero (Sense UI).

It's not that confusing. Are there a bunch of users so confused that Windows programs don't run on Macs? How about why they don't have stacks or Time Machine in Tiger? Some features just aren't available with some devices. People are used to it in many other aspects of their lives.

 

[Compile 'em all]

You are such a troll.

You say geeks and android fans dodge the "issue" but when android end users, android developers and other geeks come in to assure you that this "issue" is a figment of Steve Job's imagination you go ahead and dodge away.

End users and non-geeks don't post on tech forums. Your mum or dad; That is an end user.

 

[FoxyKaye]

I liked Steve a lot better when he was sitting back and quietly kicking ass instead of calling people out every other day.

I liked him a lot better when he just made Macs and OS X.

 

[Mal]

This defeats the purpose of having an all-in-one device.

I bought Galcon on my iPhone. Switched to Sprint. Now what do I do? I'm not going to carry my old phone around.

My point was that if I'm on one carrier with an Android Phone. All my apps will carry over to any new Android phone on any carrier.

You mean if that new Android phone happens to run the same version of Android as your old phone, and the apps you have support that new phone and it's particular blend of Android. Sure, you'll get to keep some, but there's no guarantee that they'll all work.

I'll give you that maybe it's a slight advantage, but it could also just be more of a hassle.

jW

 

[ksgant]

My mom understood just fine. She has a Samsung Moment (Stock Android), my brother has a HTC Hero (Sense UI).

It's not that confusing. Are there a bunch of users so confused that Windows programs don't run on Macs? How about why they don't have stacks or Time Machine in Tiger? Some features just aren't available with some devices. People are used to it in many other aspects of their lives.

Fine, you're right. Android is perfect. No one should get confused. I'm throwing away my iPhone now.

Thanks!

 

[ViViDboarder]

You mean some type of second class virtual machine called Dalvik? Or how about total and direct access to the hardware with a complete GNU/Linux toolchain, instead of having a slimmed-down, diverged Linux kernel and that second class virtual machine (Dalvik) on top of it to run everything for you?

Android ain’t no rosy garden either.

Right, you can't have it both ways. The current implemention is so that developers can write once and run on many phones.

That's one reason why handset manufacturers have their own custom ROMs and Apps. They build custom versions of the OS that do integrate tightly with the hardware.

 

[sfh]

How about that all the source and frameworks are available for developers? How about that a developer doesn't have to worry about Apple pulling the app for no good reason (like all the GV apps when they first came out)?



First off... How was Steve not addressing Geeks? This is an Earnings call!! Do general consumers even pay attention? Second, he was referring to challenges for DEVELOPERS! He's trying to scare devs from straying to Android. Plain and simple. I don't know anyone that's more frustrated with "lock downs" with Android than those with the iPhone. What you are saying means that at WORST Andorid would be in exactly the same boat as iPhone and that all the non geek users would be getting tired of it. But, as I mentioned before, those using Android don't have to deal with the Apple rejecting innovative apps.



Amen. Honestly, I used to love all the new Apple products. Now, I still like the products and think they are cool and all, but Steve makes me really dislike the company now. His ignorance is astounding.



Any developer? I'm a developer and I thought it was cool. I'm assuming as a developer you know what a VM is? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalvik_(software) It's not like developers developing for any device need to know specifics. It's a VIRTUAL MACHINE! It's JAVA! When a kid learns Java in their high school programming class, they then know that they can write a program that will run on ANY computer regardless of hardware. It's the same with Android. Some features will be dependent on hardware. If you don't have 2 cameras the app will only access one. That doesn't make it harder to develop though. You just chose if you want dual or single camera support in your app. Just like on the iPhone platform.



Always think, "Follow the money". Andriods sole purpose is to get the internet in everyone's pockets. They want you to search, use Gmail, use Google Calendar, and any other Google product. Android is a means to this end. I don't think anyone is disagreeing with that. It doesn't make it not open though.



http://www.netmarketshare.com/os-market-share.aspx?qprid=11 If they turn out like Windows, they'll be sitting pretty.

Also, you should read up on what Java and Virtual Machines are. Take a look at the Wikipedia link I posted as well. Developers DON'T have to test against every hardware and software version. They did not have to test against 200 device configurations. They just released an open beta and posted some stats.



I do develop for the iPhone. My application runs on all iPhones, iPods, iPads and all I have is an iPhone 3G. I just make sure I implement the frameworks properly.

Also, the vast majority of OS's on that list are custom made. They are all based off of the same few ROMs (Usually exactly the same but with different bundled apps) and do not generally pose any obstacle. Also, anyone who is installing or building ROMs knows that it could be a source of problems before contacting app builders.



That doesn't make sense... Android OS is 100% totally Open. Open means YOU CAN CREATE CUSTOM ROMS. What the heck do you think it means?



I'd say that Google Voice is the prime example of why it matters to developers and the end users.

Google and independent developers ended up in a bad spot because Apple wouldn't approve their apps. Second, the end users suffered because they were unable to use Google Voice with their iPhones. No matter how innovative of an engineer you are, ultimately you are put at the mercy of Apple to decide if your app is going to be successful. I don't like that.



Amen.



I would also point out the Google Voice example.

wow who pissed in your cheerios.... and BTW I didn't say that they needed each piece of hardware, but they do need to configure a VM to match what they are testing for if they want to make sure it does actually function on that device/software configuration. Albeit the majority of the time the program would function properly, there would be instances where they would need to make adjustments to their code to make the program work for a specific device.

 

[chugg]

No, they're really not. Does Apple want to sell you stuff? Sure. But if you want a song, a video, a movie, or an eBook you can easily go elsewhere and purchase them. I could drop my iPhone today and switch to Android and not really miss a beat. Google is another beast entirely. Good luck getting information about your business out to the public without Google. Good luck getting people to find your business (either physically or virtually) without Google. If you're not on Google, you're screwed. If Google does not provide accurate information about you or your business, you're screwed. Google owns you.

I once wandered a residential neighborhood looking for a major outdoor equipment superstore. I was following Google Maps. I finally called them to find out where they really were (about 2 miles away). The woman on the phone said they get these calls all the time. They've reported the problem to Google but Google "didn't seem to care." How's that for scary? Maybe you'll be able to pay Google to ensure your business is accurately represented. Too bad about your competitors who aren't going to pay Google "protection money." Their customers will end up wandering residential neighborhoods, or be redirected to your business website.

A Google-controlled world? Good luck with that. Anyone who can't see the incredible dangers here is either blind or just naive. Apple's iGadget sales have nowhere near the potential for catastrophe as Google's stranglehold on the world's access to information. I used to love Google. Now they're starting to terrify me.

Apple is a selfish corporation I can walk away from if I so choose. Google is a selfish corporation that is reaching its tentacles into every aspect of my life. And the only alternative is...Bing? From Microsoft? Reassuring.

Enjoy your "open" mobile experience, Fandroids. Don't say we didn't warn you.

Clearly FAR more people find Google's services more valuable than not. They don't just randomly place peoples' businesses on maps. As far as I can tell (at least for my city), they get their information from the yellow pages. If the information is out of date there, it will most likely be out of date on Google.

No one's forcing you to use Google. Just don't complain when people are saving more time by using Google Maps, getting more business through their advertisements, increasing productivity with Google Docs, or getting a better e-mail experience with Gmail.

 

[macsmurf]

You mean some type of second class virtual machine called Dalvik? Or how about total and direct access to the hardware with a complete GNU/Linux toolchain, instead of having a slimmed-down, diverged Linux kernel and that second class virtual machine (Dalvik) on top of it to run everything for you?

Android ain’t no rosy garden either.

Oracle JVM isn't open and isn't particurlarly suitable for mobile phones.

 

[Jack Dangers]

The Nexus One was a great idea that was killed by the cell providers. They hate openness. So now that they love Android, that should tell us all we need to know. They can take it for free and lock it down for the average user. Bad for the user, great for Verizon.

Not only killed by the cell provides but also by the consumer who did not want to pay ~ 550 dollars for an open phone. Most couldn't care less.
I had a Nexus One for a while, best Android experience I've had to date, but when people asked where they could get it, they would wince when I told them only from Google for 500.00 plus tax.
I test drove a Droid2 with and it was a completely different experience than the Nexus One. Both were running froyo, but N1 was a much better experience (besides the crappy and non-responsive touch screen).

 

[zacman]

Time to shut up Mr. Jobs.

 

[rmwebs]

If the Tweetdeck guys are in bed with Eric Schmidt (and there's a mental picture we could all do without) then I think I need a new Twitter client.

Wow you're stupid. The tweetdeck folks posted to correct Steves miss statement. Not to promote Android.

Grow up and stop spreading Steves asscheaks! You use software because it does what you want, not because the developer makes a blog post.

 

[Rodimus Prime]

No developer, Mac or Windows is going to test on each device. To be thorough they would have to do a full regression test, which would drive any company into oblivion. You test on the platform, then only test portions that could be substantially different, e.g. how connections change when moving from wifi to data. If Google got it right, the OS will dictate that and not the hardware so they don't even have to test there. Other than that, screen resolutions, but given their are so many, most developers likely make their apps dynamic in that respect out the door.

See the post you quoted high lights the stupidity of the masses who have no clue about developing software or even programing.

First you get it working on your computer (or test phone) and once it is working there you load it up on a 2-3 others to do quick check to make sure it is working.

It pass those chances are it will work on most if not all. Put it in beta to flush out the final bugs since mass number of testers will find problems. Same on iOS there. Put it out in the app store and bugs will be found and reported back since you have a mass number of testers easier to find problems.

I know when I do major projects for class I get it working on my laptop. Then load it up on my old desktop. Pass both I might load it up on my parents computer as quick final check since that one does not have any developer software on it.

Pass all those I generally consider it good. If I am really crazy I will load it up on a school computer for a final check but really passing my old desktop, parents computer and my laptop is generally a wide enough make sure everything is working ok and it is not some random developer tool allowing it to work on one computer.

 

[ViViDboarder]

End users and non-geeks don't post on tech forums. Your mum or dad; That is an end user.

My mom understood just fine. She has a Samsung Moment (Stock Android), my brother has a HTC Hero (Sense UI).

It's not that confusing. Are there a bunch of users so confused that Windows programs don't run on Macs? How about why they don't have stacks or Time Machine in Tiger? Some features just aren't available with some devices. People are used to it in many other aspects of their lives.

There you go, beat you to it.

You mean if that new Android phone happens to run the same version of Android as your old phone, and the apps you have support that new phone and it's particular blend of Android. Sure, you'll get to keep some, but there's no guarantee that they'll all work.

I'll give you that maybe it's a slight advantage, but it could also just be more of a hassle.

jW

No. Again virtual machines. Also, apps may not be compatible with OLDER versions of Android. That's the case with iOS as well. When NEW devices come out, they tend to come out with Newer versions of Android. There are a few exceptions, but those are not flagship devices either.

Secondly, it would be no "more of a hassle" than the iPhone. Worst case you're in the same boat. There is no way it's a bad thing is all I'm trying to say.

Fine, you're right. Android is perfect. No one should get confused. I'm throwing away my iPhone now.

Thanks!

That's not what I'm trying to say. I'm trying to say that Steve Jobs is not always right. This was an poor comment for him to have made and he was clearly wrong. I'm sure there are issues that others will have with Android.

I'll even list a few:

Android has no strict development standards. UI's can be all over the place. As a result, I tend to only download apps that look good.
The large amount of devices limits the amount of time hackers can spend to root devices. That's why I only look to flagship devices.
Android runs a VM... Great for compatibility and runs well. I'd like to be able to squeeze more out of my device though.

That's about what I have now. I have lots of other reasons I like Android more, so I don't mind the switch.

 

[Lochias]

The real Steve Jobs

I liked Steve a lot better when he was sitting back and quietly kicking ass instead of calling people out every other day.

Sitting back? Quietly? You must have him confused with someone else.

 

[pcharles]

If the Tweetdeck guys are in bed with Eric Schmidt (and there's a mental picture we could all do without) then I think I need a new Twitter client.

You should be using Osfoora anyway!

 

[h1r0ll3r]

I think Steve is losing it. My guess is he'll keel over any day know so he's hell bent on leaving with a big enough bang that no one will ever forget him. Then, maybe, we'll see him on an episode of Ghosthunters or something after millions of people complain that a skinny, speckled, black turtle neck wearing ghost keeps adjusting the settings on their Android phones and randomly deleting their apps

 

[rmwebs]

Indeed. TennisandMusic is in for a surprise if he thinks he's going to Android for better voice quality. Consumer Reports rated the iPhone 4 higher than the EVO, higher than the Captivate, higher than the Hero, the Pre, The HD2, the Droid X, the Droid 2, the Droid Incredible, the list goes on, in voice quality.



No, they're really not. Does Apple want to sell you stuff? Sure. But if you want a song, a video, a movie, or an eBook you can easily go elsewhere and purchase them. I could drop my iPhone today and switch to Android and not really miss a beat. Google is another beast entirely. Good luck getting information about your business out to the public without Google. Good luck getting people to find your business (either physically or virtually) without Google. If you're not on Google, you're screwed. If Google does not provide accurate information about you or your business, you're screwed. Google owns you.

I once wandered a residential neighborhood looking for a major outdoor equipment superstore. I was following Google Maps. I finally called them to find out where they really were (about 2 miles away). The woman on the phone said they get these calls all the time. They've reported the problem to Google but Google "didn't seem to care." How's that for scary? Maybe you'll be able to pay Google to ensure your business is accurately represented. Too bad about your competitors who aren't going to pay Google "protection money." Their customers will end up wandering residential neighborhoods, or be redirected to your business website.

A Google-controlled world? Good luck with that. Anyone who can't see the incredible dangers here is either blind or just naive. Apple's iGadget sales have nowhere near the potential for catastrophe as Google's stranglehold on the world's access to information. I used to love Google. Now they're starting to terrify me.

Apple is a selfish corporation I can walk away from if I so choose. Google is a selfish corporation that is reaching its tentacles into every aspect of my life. And the only alternative is...Bing? From Microsoft? Reassuring.

Enjoy your "open" mobile experience, Fandroids. Don't say we didn't warn you.

Why does half your post say you love Google, and the other half say you hate them?

Tell me (and be honest) I bet if Google and Apple were still 'friends' you wouldn't have a problem with it.

I'm not sure if you're aware but it is possible to use more than one company to fulfill your needs. You don't have to focus your entire life on what Apple provides you with.

Take MobileMe - its crap and you pay for it. Then comes Gmail, Google Docs etc- they rule. To simply not use them 'because Google owns them' is unbelievably narrow minded.

 

[LagunaSol]

No one's forcing you to use Google.

Yeah, because I can always get my information from...AltaVista?

Google is becoming the only game in town when it comes to Web information. If that isn't extremely worrisome to you then I don't know what to say.

 

[DavidLeblond]

This defeats the purpose of having an all-in-one device.

I bought Galcon on my iPhone. Switched to Sprint. Now what do I do? I'm not going to carry my old phone around.

My point was that if I'm on one carrier with an Android Phone. All my apps will carry over to any new Android phone on any carrier.

Wait, I'm missing something. I don't know about you, but my apps aren't tied to my carrier... I have an iPod Touch and an iPhone 4 and I can run the same apps on both... only had to buy them once. They're tied to my Apple account. And being able to port apps from carrier to carrier... can you do that with ALL the apps on the Android? How about carrier exclusive apps?