Google CEO Calls FBI's Request for Apple Backdoor 'A Troubling Precedent'

[drumcat]

If law enforcement is easy, you live in a Police State.

Besides, there won't be anything more nefarious than what Clive Bundy has on his phone.

 

[Cape Dave]

The government is surveiling this forum.

 

[usarioclave]

If a special version of iOS is made that can only be installed on a specific iPhone with a specific serial number and is digitally signed by Apple, it doesn't matter if that version of iOS isn't deleted. If the FBI try to alter that version of iOS for a different serial number, the digital signature of that special iOS won't match and won't even be installable.

Once you have the process down, you can do it for any phone. Then the Feds are asking you for this, that, etc, etc. And as anyone who pays attention knows, the Feds abuse their discretion all the time - with basically no consequences.

 

[JohnGrey]

Why does Obama want to take away your privacy?

I have no more love for President Obama than I did for President Bush, or Clinton or Reagan, but that sort of politicisation, making this into an argument of individual or party, is precisely what has allowed an increasingly tyrannical government to operate with impunity. You need to see that at the level of the federal government, there is no Democrat or Republic, no liberal or conservative. There is the accrual of power, in money or information.

 

[jnpy!$4g3cwk]

FBI ultimately wants a backdoor to everything, and it shocks me how so many are indifferent about that.

I imagine that about 38% of people are indifferent about it-- the people who always say, "I have nothing to hide." But, we did live without smartphone privacy at first. In fact, we lived without smartphones until about 9 years ago. We can live without smartphone privacy again. Of course, I'm not about to ditch my credit-card-with-a-chip for making payments and lots of other things. Either there is a common understanding that it is secure, or, there isn't. You can't have it both ways. Naturally, if the smartphone offers no privacy, I'm not going to be spending so much money on smartphones. Which might explain why this is a very, very touchy issue for Apple.

 

[John.B]

Weak sauce, Sundar. Far too many weasel words. If you're going to take a position, man up and take an actual position.

 

[LizKat]

The government is surveiling this forum.

Ok so now I truly feel sorry for them. Happy now?

 

[skinned66]

The FBI wants Apple to eliminate the auto-erase function that wipes an iPhone if the wrong passcode is entered too many times, it wants the delay between wrong passcode inputs removed, and it wants the ability to electronically input a passcode.

How about **** you? Those are all key anti-theft features. I don't want people who find or steal my phone as much time as they need to "re-gift it" let alone access my data.

 

[JohnGrey]

The Fourth Amendment of the U.S. Constitution provides, "[t]he right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly ...
Seems like a "reasonable search" to me. Seems there is probable cause to search. Not weighing in on if Apple should or should not, but I feel here the 4th amendment gives access.

Apple isn't arguing that the Fourth Amendment is their reason for refusing to comply. The question is the degree to which a judge can compel a corporate entity to be complicit in the discharge of an investigation, especially when the successful discharge of that investigation would represent a material loss of equity in brand, in essence demanding that they sacrifice themselves on the pyre of state security. Apple, understandably, has given them a two-fingered salute.

 

[ProjectManager101]

Government wants to search your stuff... why they do not start by creating a better way of living? There are more jails in the U.S. than colleges, smartphones are not to blame. The amount of young people into prostitution and drug dealing is amazing because they can not afford education... but the government wants to hack their phones to stop their crimes.... idiotic.

 

[Surf Donkey]

Wow, the circle jerk is strong in here. I think it is great the major tech companies are standing together on this.

Some of you need to really take off your Apple glasses for a moment. Especially for an issue this important.
[doublepost=1455767995][/doublepost]

I read the article and saw no mention of Obama in it anywhere.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/18/technology/apple-timothy-cook-fbi-san-bernardino.html?_r=0

Last month, some of President Obama’s top intelligence advisers met in Silicon Valley with Apple’s chief, Timothy D. Cook, and other technology leaders in what seemed to be a public rapprochement in their long-running dispute over the encryption safeguards built into their devices.

But behind the scenes, relations were tense, as lawyers for the Obama administration and Apple held closely guarded discussions for over two months about one particularly urgent case: The F.B.I. wanted Apple to help “unlock” an iPhone used by one of the two attackers who killed 14 people in San Bernardino, Calif., in December, but Apple was resisting.

When the talks collapsed, a federal magistrate judge, at the Justice Department’s request, ordered Apple to bypass security functions on the phone. The order set off a furious public battle on Wednesday between the Obama administration and one of the world’s most valuable companies in a dispute with far-reaching legal implications.

 

[JohnGrey]

Government wants to search your stuff... why they do not start by creating a better way of living? There are more jails in the U.S. than colleges, smartphones are not to blame. The amount of young people into prostitution and drug dealing is amazing because they can not afford education... but the government wants to hack their phones to stop their crimes.... idiotic.

They can't afford an education because secondary education has been perverted into a cottage industry. We have hundreds of institutions cooperating with banks to offer 'financing' to people taking comparative literature or 19th-century French poetry when, in any sane world, they would've been laughed out of the bank. Increased competition for a commodity, i.e. a college education, increases the cost of said commodity. So you end up with thousands of well-rounded idiots with liberal arts degrees, slinging lattés whilst buried under $100k of non-dischargeable debt when they ought never have been admitted to university in the first place.

Dismantle FAFSA, pass legislation to make college debt dischargeable in bankruptcy, and banks will stop schilling debt to get worthless degrees and college tuition will shrink back to manageable levels. It won't become affordable till those things happen.

 

[Zwhaler]

I have a feeling it is only a matter of time until this type of privacy we enjoy today will vanish, in the name of "security" (this coming from the government, of course). I'm not saying it will happen soon, but since they haven't been able to successfully contain the internet yet, I'm afraid it is in their crosshairs, along with smartphones (which are an absolute goldmine of personal data: fingerprints, web history, bank information, voice/email/text communications, GPS, front facing camera, retina scanners in the near future, etc.)

 

[Edd.Dantes]

I think that most people are missing the real point here.

Our anti "terror" alphabet agencies are so inept and incompetent that they are begging for an iPhone to be unlocked...

I'm not sure we need any president or government at all, if this is what we have come to.

Radical Muslims did it. Hey, I just beat out 99% of our "intelligence" agencies.

Oh, I can do better... The people they were in contact with... Also radical Muslims. ****, I should play the lottery.

This goes far beyond privacy folks.

Support the second amendment because these monkey bleepers aren't going to save you. Keep your eyes open and ears peeled. Save yourself, save the ones you love. Domestic uniformed people can't, not in the sense of lone wolf attacks.

 

[JohnGrey]

I think that most people are missing the real point here.

Our anti "terror" alphabet agencies are so inept and incompetent that they are begging for an iPhone to be unlocked...

I'm not sure we need any president or government at all, if this is what we have come to.

Radical Muslims did it. Hey, I just beat out 99% of our "intelligence" agencies.

Oh, I can do better... The people they were in contact with... Also radical Muslims. ****, I should play the lottery.

This goes far beyond privacy folks.

Support th second amendment because these monkey bleepers aren't going to save you.

Don't forget, the Second Amendments chiefest purpose was to provide the people arms for protection against the inevitable tyranny of the state. It was for that reason the Constitution made no provision for a standing army, merely a well-ordered militia under local control of their perspective commonwealths.

 

[Zwhaler]

They can't afford an education because secondary education has been perverted into a cottage industry. We have hundreds of institutions cooperating with banks to offer 'financing' to people taking comparative literature or 19th-century French poetry when, in any sane world, they would've been laughed out of the bank. Increased competition for a commodity, i.e. a college education, increases the cost of said commodity. So you end up with thousands of well-rounded idiots with liberal arts degrees, slinging lattés whilst buried under $100k of non-dischargeable debt when they ought never have been admitted to university in the first place.

Sadly, college is big business. For awhile I believed that it was all a sham and there was no value in getting, say, a liberal arts degree, but these days I do see the value in going to a highly ranked school regardless of the degree. Although, kids banking on a degree from a middle of the road college to make them successful in life, well, they are going to have a reality check. This isn't the 1950's, and four years of college is becoming the new high school diploma. Having a bachelors today makes you like millions of others on paper rather than stand out. I'm not against college, but I think its important to do other things too during those years 18-22 that make you different from the masses.

 

[JohnGrey]

Sadly, college is big business. For awhile I believed that it was all a sham and there was no value in getting, say, a liberal arts degree, but these days I do see the value in going to a highly ranked school regardless of the degree. Although, kids banking on a degree from a middle of the road college to make them successful in life, well, they are going to have a reality check. This isn't the 1950's, and 4 years of college is becoming the new high school diploma. Having a bachelors today makes you like millions of others on paper rather than stand out. I'm not against college, but I think its important to do other things during those years 18-22 that make you different from the masses.

That doesn't even matter any longer. Most well-paying jobs, most especially in computer science, have either been off-shored to taken by H-1Bs placed like India, where their education was free. It's far more advisable that people go to a trade or vocational school. People will always need electricians and plumbers.

 

[BrentD]

The irony in Google coming out for personal privacy...

 

[Edd.Dantes]

Don't forget, the Second Amendments chiefest purpose was to provide the people arms for protection against the inevitable tyranny of the state. It was for that reason the Constitution made no provision for a standing army, merely a well-ordered militia under local control of their perspective commonwealths.

Shhhh... They're listening

If they can't find radical Muslims in this country, I doubt they can find me. Yawn.

You are correct though. However, that was written in a time when common sense prevailed and intelligence was ripe. As much of a constitutionalist as I am, I'm not sure it applies to all our so called "citizens", as most are not citizens. Not even in the broadest of definitions.

 

[B4U]

I'm grateful that another tech giant like Google has publicly backed Apple. So far the FBI's only supporter seems to be confirmed moron Donald Trump.

And sadly, the family members of the victims...
On one hand, I have sympathy to the family members of the victims. On the other hand, I am totally against opening this Pandora's box...
If they have to put in a backdoor, then all the terrorists are just simply gonna go flip phone. Or just going to Blackberry which is not a US company...

 

[JohnGrey]

Shhhh... They're listening

If they can't find radical Muslims in this country, I doubt they can find me. Yawn.

You are correct though. However, that was written in a time when common sense prevailed and intelligence was ripe. As much of a constitutionalist as I am, I'm not sure it applies to all our so called "citizens", as most are not citizens. Not even in the broadest of definitions.

That's the inherent failure of a republic sadly and why they inevitably devolve into civil war and autocracy. Recall the example of the Roman Republic. The Civil War was preceded by an explosion of nationalism (Bush II), then tempered with liberality (Obama), made a fight of traditionalism and populism (Republics, especially Cruz and Trump) vs progressivism and cult of personality (Democrats, especially Sanders), which ultimately led to a civil war which only ended with the establishment of the Empire.

 

[jnpy!$4g3cwk]

They can't afford an education because secondary education has been perverted into a cottage industry. We have hundreds of institutions cooperating with banks to offer 'financing' to people taking comparative literature or 19th-century French poetry when, in any sane world, they would've been laughed out of the bank. Increased competition for a commodity, i.e. a college education, increases the cost of said commodity. So you end up with thousands of well-rounded idiots with liberal arts degrees, slinging lattés whilst buried under $100k of non-dischargeable debt when they ought never have been admitted to university in the first place.

I think you are underestimating the economic value of a liberal arts education.

http://www.business2community.com/l...ral-arts-degrees-01293809#UIkPuvOIOd9oPfVZ.97

http://www.usnews.com/education/bes...rn-on-investment-for-your-liberal-arts-degree

I do agree with you that it shouldn't cost so much.

And, don't become a marriage and family counselor expecting to get rich:

http://www.bankrate.com/finance/college-finance/roi-college-degree.aspx

Dismantle FAFSA, pass legislation to make college debt dischargeable in bankruptcy, and banks will stop schilling debt to get worthless degrees and college tuition will shrink back to manageable levels. It won't become affordable till those things happen.

I do agree with part of your point anyway. People should be aware that an expensive college education won't automatically pay for itself. (Isn't that clear to everyone by now?"

http://www.payscale.com/college-roi

 

[unplugme71]

If they make a back door everyone should text empty threats to themselves so the government gets confused what's going on. Lol

 

[lordofthereef]

"Could be a troubling precedent" is not the same as calling something s troubling precedent. I do appreciate that the screen cap of the tweet was included I the article though.

 

[unplugme71]

As I said in another thread, what if the government forces Apple to implement a backdoor? Will it be hardware based or software based? If it is hardware based, the perpetrators won't buy the newest iPhone, and stick to an older model, where as the software backdoor would require an update. The perpetrators would probably be smarter than that to update, and stay on an older version of iOS. Then the government would ask Apple to force newer software onto devices. And that would piss a lot of people off.... Even with a backdoor implemented, it would affect other users in different countries besides the US, making others vulnerable to hacking. This should be looked into depth at an international level, not just concerning the US, because millions of other people's privacy is at stake here.

There is always going to be work arounds, to the locks, and I am glad the tech companies are sticking up for the general consumers rights, not just the small percent of those who are committing these atrocities. It will be interesting what Microsoft does about this.

Also we can't forget about the numerous android phone manufacturers, that exist in many countries and aren't controlled by the US government

Then they'll make carriers disable the older hardware models.

It's just a matter of time.