Google Exec Pushing RCS Adoption Says He's 'Not Asking Apple to Make iMessage Available on Android'

[techwhiz]

RCS sucks. I tried enabling it on my Android phone and it was a mess of randomly late and/or undelivered messages both sending and receiving. Not ready for prime time.

Not sure what device you are using.
I have a OnePlus 9 Pro on Verizon and RCS works perfectly fine when the other party has RCS.

I can see them typing and interacting. It falls back to SMS or MMS when they are not available or don't have RCS

 

[jahall05]

The only way this would happen currently would be as “just another app” (i.e. not natively in iMessage). If carriers were to step up to support it and implement it, then it would be just like SMS and MMS and be available in iMessage. However, carriers aren’t going to support it. And, if it’s gonna be “just another app”, might as well use one of the ones already in existence.

I’m sure it is technically able to be added to the messages app natively. It can fall back on it.

 

[Black Magic]

The point is it doesn't matter if carriers are on board or not. Carriers aren't on board with Facebook Messenger are they? RCS is an open chat standard that any Android device can use. Apple could support it if they wanted to.

Even if Apple decided to support it, it will still be green or another color. Non-Apple users will still complain. Bottom line, if Google or Facebook are pushing hard for something on Social media and news outlets, its probably not good for people in general. You know in the end it's to enhance their bottom line.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

I’m sure it is technically able to be added to the messages app natively. It can fall back on it.

It’s “technically” possible right now IF the carriers support it. There could be a seamless fall back from iMessage to RCS to MMS to SMS because all Apple would have to do is implement those carrier messaging just like they implemented SMS. However, all the carriers aren’t willing to put forth the effort.

 

[Amazing Iceman]

To text my Green Bubble Friends I use Signal (others use WhatsApp), and case solved. Why use the carrier's network if I can use the internet instead?

 

[Abazigal]

Frankly speaking, this whole saga is getting out of hand.

The issue isn’t that teens are somehow bullying people who aren’t using iPhones. It’s no different from your social circle using WhatsApp while you prefer telegram. Just that this is at a device level, not a software one.

It just so happens that the iPhone somehow enjoys overwhelming market share in the US, iMessage is actually pretty good and well integrated across all Apple devices (even the Apple Watch), and everyone has a system that works. Do you all switch to accommodate the new guy without an iPhone, or make the new guy accommodate everyone else?

Or everyone is on office and this one kid comes in with an essay typed on pages and you wonder why it doesn’t format properly.

Google did absolutely nothing to capitalise on their early market lead. They have no right to call out Apple for refusing to support RCS, which is frankly not a very fantastic solution in itself.

 

[fredrik9]

I think he’s right. Just support it.

 

[Marshall73]

Nope, I like to know who the Android scum are, thank you very much. 🤣

 

[ShrimpScampi]

I find the comments here surprising. For me, Apple adopting a standard that is way secure than SMS is a win for everyone. Google is right on this. If Apple is serious about security, they should push for the adoption of this standard on iMessage. Granted Apple has no incentive to do so, but that doesn’t mean it’s not something i can root for.

I agree with this. I find some of the tribalism present in this thread a bit pathetic, tbh. Looking down on someone because their messages arrive in green bubbles? Ignoring everyone who buys a phone that isn't made by Apple? It's all very silly and juvenile. I've lived in Sweden, Germany, Liechtenstein, and then the UK and one of the main reasons I believe WhatsApp is so ubiquitous in all these places is because it's cross-platform (I see about as many Samsung and to a lesser extent, Pixel phones around as I do iPhones), international, and data-based. Do I like WhatsApp? Definitely not. But that's what we have to live with over in Europe until the native messaging app has a good solution for cross-platform, international, data-based chats.

 

[Shirasaki]

There's a very simple reason there is a color difference.
Green = SMS that you may be charged for, depending on your contract.
Blue = iMessage that used your wifi or data.

I don't know why this is so hard to figure out. If you turn OFF iMessage so that only SMS is used, then all bubbles go green. Even to iPhones.

If color is just about differentiation, nothing wrong with that. The problem is, blue bubble becomes a weird sort of social status among teenagers who bully others based on bubble color. Besides, there’s gonna be other alternatives that doesn’t involve color (differentiate without color). It’s just so that bubble color is the most straightforward and most distinguishable.

 

[crawfish963]

it's not yet fully encrypted communication, Apple shouldn't bother.

To be fair, iMessage isn't totally E2EE either. Unless you have iCloud backups, one of the most useful features of iCloud, disabled.

 

[BuffaloTF]

This thread will blow up, and a lot of ingorance is already posted. Here are some facts:

-RCS is not owned by Google. It's very much like SMS. There are various RCS profiles that can be used. Some talk to one another, some do not. Some are E2E encrypted, some are not. Apple can certainly use whichever profile they want.

-Yes, RCS can be E2E encrypted. It doesn't have to be, though. Apple can choose to use a profile that is.

-RCS is to replace SMS, not iMessage. There are many iMessage-only features that cannot be duplicated by RCS. RCS will likely still be Green bubbled.

-Again, RCS is a modern SMS. It's not designed to replace WhatsApp, WeChat, iMessage, etc.

The argument most are making is Apple is refusing to support RCS because those Green bubbles will not not suck as much.. you'll get delivery and read receipts, see typing, have high quality images, etc. So an iPhone users won't bully Green bubble people as much. The argument is this is bad for Apple business, because if Green bubbles are less bullied, maybe people will switch.

whether or not this will stop green bubble bullying, who knows. Even if it doesn't, one has to ask... why won't Apple support this standard protocol, then? What are the downsides to RCS over SMS (and to be clear, of RCS fails, it'll fall back to SMS still)?

-This deployment is absolutely owned, and controlled, by Google. This has been the problem with RCS throughout it's history. Each deployment only operates with that specific network, in this case, it's Google's network. There are no APIs to access this network. The only app anyone can use to send an RCS message on *this specific network* is Google Messenger. Joyn will not work. Chat+ will not work. Advanced Messages will not work. Messages+ will not work. Each of these are RCS apps. Why won't they work? Because there's no API to access Google RCS. Carrying that fact forward, the only way to use RCS to communicate to Android would be... you guessed it... through a separate app.

-RCS is only E2E encrypted on 1:1 messages and only when in transit, group messages are not. Once on the device though, the data is at-rest and is absolutely being harvested for profiling and metadata.

-RCS can not replace SMS. SMS runs on the paging line that keeps your device connected to a tower, it's a product inherent to the service itself - it's literally a page, just like the old 80s beepers and by its extension mobility devices for deaf people that actually used the alphabet to send messages rather than a phone number to call. RCS replacing SMS would require *carriers* to deploy it and create cross-company support for delivery.

 

[chillynj]

Good luck with that Google! Why would Apple willingly open its ecosystem to a competitor platform? They struggled for years to get adoption by Samsung and other Android OEMs with basic apps like the browser and messaging. While the Pixel is a good device, the lack of a coherent ecosystem strategy with Android is maddening.

 

[TimFL1]

Readers who want some facts, rather than denial and wordplay from this hamster head that doesn’t understand what a target feature set is, can go visit developers.google.com and try to search for any RCS or Google Messenger API for themselves. I can save you all time though - you’ll find nothing. Because the Google Messenger API is closed, allowing for zero access outside of their own app. Making this yet another closed network in a long list of closed RCS networks.

The GSMA isn't infallible... their 3G target was EDGE, after all. It wasn't until W-CDMA was created and an entirely different group of companies got together to codify UMTS from it, in a totally separate group called the 3GPP, that the GSMA backed down, adopted UMTS, sunsetted GSM and EDGE, and even tried to coin EDGE as "2.9G" to make nicey-nice with the 3GPP.

You seem to get things mixed up, let me clear things up:

You have to differentiate between RCS Hubs (backend) and RCS Clients (frontend / app). Jibe is a Hub and controlled by Google, implementing and abiding to the Universal Profile. Google Messages is a client, connecting to a hub (of your ISP or Jibe).

A hub is supposed to be provided by your ISP, implement the Universal Profile and interconnect with other hubs (there are ISPs who do just that, e.g. allow texting with Jibe connected clients). If your ISP has no resources to do so, they are free to have Jibe do that for them (giving up their RCS handling to Google essentially). Apple could technically roll their own RCS Hub for Apple users (they surely will do that once they decide to adopt RCS).

A client is an app you install on your device (not limited to phones, afaik Windows also has native RCS support but not sure how that works). Google IS SUPPOSED TO provide Android SDK functionality to easily take over and give access to RCS functionality (essentially what they do with SMS), but these features have yet to see the light of day. As of now, their reference implementation of a RCS client is closed source / exclusive to Google Messages. That doesn‘t stop other apps from rolling their own implementation of RCS, if they want to essentially do that and provide RCS functionality and connect to a custom hub (which can then be interconnected with Jibe and co.).

Apple absolutely can roll their own hub and client implementation and make it interconnect with Jibe and co. There is literally nothing stopping them other than dragging their feet / waiting for wider adoption of the standard.

 

[boss.king]

Good luck with that Google! Why would Apple willingly open its ecosystem to a competitor platform? They struggled for years to get adoption by Samsung and other Android OEMs with basic apps like the browser and messaging. While the Pixel is a good device, the lack of a coherent ecosystem strategy with Android is maddening.

Nothing you said has anything to do with how RCS works. Rather than just blindly dismissing something because a Google employee suggested it, maybe take a second to understand what they’re saying and how it can actually improve your experience on iOS.

 

[BuffaloTF]

You seem to get things mixed up, let me clear things up:

You have to differentiate between RCS Hubs (backend) and RCS Clients (frontend / app). Jibe is a Hub and controlled by Google, implementing and abiding to the Universal Profile. Google Messages is a client, connecting to a hub (of your ISP or Jibe).

A hub is supposed to be provided by your ISP, implement the Universal Profile and interconnect with other hubs (there are ISPs who do just that, e.g. allow texting with Jibe connected clients). If your ISP has no resources to do so, they are free to have Jibe do that for them (giving up their RCS handling to Google essentially). Apple could technically roll their own RCS Hub for Apple users (they surely will do that once they decide to adopt RCS).

A client is an app you install on your device (not limited to phones, afaik Windows also has native RCS support but not sure how that works). Google IS SUPPOSED TO provide Android SDK functionality to easily take over and give access to RCS functionality (essentially what they do with SMS), but these features have yet to see the light of day. As of now, their reference implementation of a RCS client is closed source / exclusive to Google Messages. That doesn‘t stop other apps from rolling their own implementation of RCS, if they want to essentially do that and provide RCS functionality and connect to a custom hub (which can then be interconnected with Jibe and co.).

Apple absolutely can roll their own hub and client implementation and make it interconnect with Jibe and co. There is literally nothing stopping them other than dragging their feet / waiting for wider adoption of the standard.

Yes... Google has been saying they were going to open up the API for the last 4 years - yet here we are...

And creating ones own implementation of RCS is precisely what everyone has done so far - and what I've stated. A series of closed-user groups that can't send messages to the others. And giving control to Google is precisely what Apple will never do, it's a fantasy not unlike the Lord of the Rings - it's a good story, but it's fiction.

 

[Black Magic]

If color is just about differentiation, nothing wrong with that. The problem is, blue bubble becomes a weird sort of social status among teenagers who bully others based on bubble color. Besides, there’s gonna be other alternatives that doesn’t involve color (differentiate without color). It’s just so that bubble color is the most straightforward and most distinguishable.

Nobody is being bullied in school over message bubble colors. Find me a teen that actually experiences this? Find me anyone? I'm positive the story was created for sensationalism. Very slow news week I assume.

 

[boss.king]

Nobody is being bullied in school over message bubble colors. Find me a teen that actually experiences this? Find me anyone? I'm positive the story was created for sensationalism. Very slow news week I assume.

This is legitimately a thing. It has been for a while now. Whether you believe it or not is up to you, but the problem doesn’t go away just because you say it doesn’t exist.

 

[Black Magic]

This is legitimately a thing. It has been for a while now. Whether you believe it or not is up to you, but the problem doesn’t go away just because you say it doesn’t exist.

So you have seen kids, teens, adults bullying others because of the color of a message bubble on their phone?

 

[kwikdeth]

Not sure what device you are using.
I have a OnePlus 9 Pro on Verizon and RCS works perfectly fine when the other party has RCS.

I can see them typing and interacting. It falls back to SMS or MMS when they are not available or don't have RCS

Using the exact same device actually, except on TMobile. Most recent incident was about a week ago, didn't get any texts for a day and a half. Went on to my account and saw a bunch of texts being sent to me during that time from various people. Went in, turned off RCS, suddenly I got like 34 text messages over the space of 20 seconds. Not the first time it's done this.

 

[boss.king]

So you have seen kids, teens, adults bullying others because of the color of a message bubble on their phone?

I haven’t seen it first hand, but that’s not the prerequisite for something to be real. I’ve seen numerous reports of it over the years, heard about it while working indirectly with teen help groups, and plus I have a working understanding of how terrible kids can be. You only have to look back at some of the messages in this very thread to see people trying to belittle anyone who texts from an non-iPhone device, do you really find it so hard to believe that kids wouldn’t also be doing that?

 

[jonnysods]

If you care about privacy so much, then it's funny that Apple is forcing users to download and install WhatsApp because they don't support RCS

I don't have WhatsApp because I care about privacy.

I'm just saying I wouldn't enter my Apple credentials into another environment, as our phones have become the centrepiece for our lives. They have 2FA but still.

 

[Black Magic]

I haven’t seen it first hand, but that’s not the prerequisite for something to be real. I’ve seen numerous reports of it over the years, heard about it while working indirectly with teen help groups, and plus I have a working understanding of how terrible kids can be. You only have to look back at some of the messages in this very thread to see people trying to belittle anyone who texts from an non-iPhone device, do you really find it so hard to believe that kids wouldn’t also be doing that?

I haven't seen it but that dioesnt mean it isn't true. I just think it's so ridiculous that I find it hard to believe.

 

[DakotaGuy]

My only question is: who is behind RCS ? Is it an open standard ? Is it managed by Google ?
Because if there is Google behind, then no thanks. This would be just another way to harvest our data.
If it is an open standard then Apple should consider it.

It is an open standard owned by the GSM Association. It was developed to basically be an SMS 2.0.

 

[Pentium]

Why they will do that again?