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I am a bit late to this conversation. But I find it interesting how folks throw out the word "open" without really knowing what that means. For anyone who has seen the word "open" used in this thread and thought "open source" or "open standard" akin to looking up an IETF RFC or an IEEE document that you can reference, good luck doing so with regard to RCS. Go ahead. I'll wait.

If you Google for "RCS standard" or just about anything along those lines, you will almost certainly land on the Wikipedia page for RCS: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rich_Communication_Services

Read that through. Notice anything? Yep, Google is the driving force here. This page doesn't really do the history justice. So try reading this as well: https://linkmobility.com/evolution-or-revolution-rcs-history-current-state-and-market-outlook/

I take absolutely nothing at face value. But if you actually do your homework, you'll see that RCS is nowhere NEAR truly "open" in the context that I suspect most folks are thinking it. Originally started by the GSMA in 2008, it is very clear that it was Google who picked up the ball and ran with it. Why? Because Google needed something to counter everything from Apple's iMessages to every other OTT app like WhatsApp, WeChat, etc. And with their size/money, they were able to buy their way in and go from there.

But for all those who keep claiming RCS is "open", please do everyone a favor. Link to the specs for RCS please. Not the Wikipedia page, which simply states version numbers. If RCS is "open", we should be able to see the specifications for exactly how an RCS message is formed, sent, received, etc.

But for those who don't simply blindly accept what others say, read the 2 pages at the links above, especially the latter one. And pay careful attention. First, Google is clearly the driving force behind RCS. Whether that is good or bad is hard to tell, because once again... let's see the details first, shall we?

Second, let me quote a few lines from that second article. Any bolding is mine.

After 2016, Google offered the solution for free in P2P cases – so people could reach friends across the world. This requires an agreement between the operators in each country and Google. If an agreement is not there, then RCS is not available. For A2P instances, RCS Business Messaging (RBM) was created.
So there are multiple versions/variations on RCS including this RBM. More on that in a minute.
To ameliorate this problem Google announced in 2019 that RCS would be launched in the Google Messages app and hosted by Google instead of the user’s carrier. RBM support would still require an agreement between end users’ operators and Google.
Does this sound like an open standard to you? Because to me this sounds like a Google standard. If in order for RCS to work an operator must have an agreement with Google, there is nothing open here.

Keep in mind that RCS relies on the carriers, just as SMS/MMS does. That means support for RCS has to be "baked into" the carrier side of things. This is very different from the OTT apps like iMessages, WhatsApp, WeChat, and everything else which simply makes use of the Internet data connection. The various vendors, be it Apple, Facebook (WhatsApp), or whoever, can upgrade their backend servers and push out updates to their clients at any time, allowing for rapid advances. But RCS? So there is the sheer logistical challenge of getting the carriers to keep their infrastructure up to date with what looks like a rather long list of updates to the RCS standard. That is a non-trivial ask right there.

Now even more concerning is the FUD around RCS such as end-to-end encryption. There is nothing in the RCS standard that says it is e2e. The only thing I have found is what is written in that Wikipedia page, which states
Google added support for end-to-end encryption for one-on-one conversations in their own extension.[2]
and
In response to concerns over the lack of end-to-end encryption in RCS, Google stated that it would only retain message data in transit until it is delivered to the recipient.[18] In November 2020, Google later announced that it would begin to roll out end-to-end encryption for one-on-one conversations between Messages users, beginning with the beta version of the app.[19]
Again, that's not open. That's a Google thing.

Also, once again, harkening back to the sheer difference in architecture between OTT apps and RCS, end-to-end encryption will be damn near impossible to achieve, difficult to ensure, and spotty at best. Just again, read a bit and notice how it all falls down if all the pieces aren't exactly right in place. And since the carriers are required to do their part, that means true e2e can never be assured, as that opens the door for (un)lawful intercept of communications by such entities as governments. Some think "Rah rah USA!" while others think "China", "Iran", "Syria", etc. when they read that. YMMV.

And sure, as others have noted, Google wants to track user data. That's their business model. They are not a search company. They are not a software company. They are an ad company. And all of the rest is in service to that. Facebook is definitely no better. And sure sure, Apple is also in it to make money. The key differentiator in this case, though, is that Apple's business model is not built on ad revenue. But I am digressing.

Key point here is that with RCS, the door is open for getting in the middle, whether to intercept for law enforcement purposes, for authoritarian purposes, collecting data to generate targeted ads, or anything else. And all the variations in profiles, features, what has to be in place on both ends and in the middle for something (e.g., just one-to-one conversations to be encrypted, forget group chats), etc., means that the end user experience will very likely be quite suboptimal.

Do I believe it would be nice to have a true open standard (ideally open-source as well) so that everyone could communicate with each other whether they had an iPhone, Android, 2005 Traffone flipphone, or any other device? Absolutely. Do I think RCS is it? No, I don't.

I get why Google is pushing for it. I really do. SMS/MMS is very long in the tooth. And in their mind, something is better than nothing. And RCS would give them better image support, read receipts, etc. All things that are lacking in SMS.

But to those who argue that something is better than nothing, I would counter that this is not always true. Sometimes it's actually worse.


P.S. I have wondered many other things regarding RCS which I haven't covered here. But as just one thought from a tech perspective, I have to wonder how carriers/operators would charge for texting with RCS. That is, with SMS it was basically a "fire and forget" sorta deal. You typed a short text, you sent it. And you got billed either a flat rate/month or some variation of X sheckles per inbound text and/or outbound text. (Every operator did it differently.) Eons ago I had a plan that charged me $0.10/text whether inbound or outbound. So every time a coworker/friend texted me, it cost me money!

But with RCS, how exactly would that work, especially when they have things like typing notifications and read receipts? To me there are an awful lot of unanswered questions which, again, might be answered if the actual specifications/standard were truly open. But I can't say as I haven't found the docs anywhere that explain all this akin to how I can read something like RFC822 to understand SMTP, etc.
 
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If in order for RCS to work an operator must have an agreement with Google, there is nothing open here.
I don’t care how “cool” sending higher quality images, group chats, and the emoji’s are, that’s not worth any REQUIRED interaction with Google. I can change my default browser to not-Google, if I can’t change RCS to not-Google, I wouldn’t use it.
 
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“Horrible”? Maybe I don’t expect much when I’m sending what’s essentially a low effort email. My criteria is, if I can read it, the communication was a success.

I would probably concede that it’s not as feature loaded of a connection, but I would have to not be able to read the text for it to be considered “horrible” to me. And, do we WANT to sunset SMS? It’s still a pretty robust way of communicating and I’d always like a fallback that’s as simple as possible. As others have said, this isn’t even a solution looking for a problem as the problem and solution is neatly encapsulated in Whatsapp, Signal, etc. Both of those run on Android and are great for folks that want to message securely across many devices, so what’s Google’s angle here?
It is my experience that SMS is not very reliable. SMS messages typically do arrive, but not always. When getting a security text from a website, one of the reasons they offer to re-send is because SMS is not always reliable. It is my experience that domestic SMS messages are more reliable than international SMS messages. I would very much welcome a reliable SMS standard.

Like you, all I need is simple messages, but not always 1-on-1. Sometimes I'm included in group conversations. As there is no cross-platform standard for group conversations, people are using other applications (like WhatsApp) for those group conversations. I would very much welcome an updates SMS standard that does allow group conversations.
 
It is my experience that domestic SMS messages are more reliable than international SMS messages. I would very much welcome a reliable SMS standard.
There are those that have posted in this thread that RCS messages haven’t proven to be more reliable than SMS, just in different ways.

At this point, with information from this thread and elsewhere, RCS as a whole can’t happen without carriers wanting it, and the RCS that Google is referring to can’t happen without Google involved in it. (DaringFireball has a good write up too, which describes more of the foundational differences between the US market vs the international SMS markets that caused WhatsApp to be a thing internationally)

It’s generally good in theory but the reality is it’s a fairly bad implementation. And, on top of that, it’s ONLY a noticeable situation in the US.
 
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There are those that have posted in this thread that RCS messages haven’t proven to be more reliable than SMS, just in different ways.

At this point, with information from this thread and elsewhere, RCS as a whole can’t happen without carriers wanting it, and the RCS that Google is referring to can’t happen without Google involved in it. (DaringFireball has a good write up too, which describes more of the foundational differences between the US market vs the international SMS markets that caused WhatsApp to be a thing internationally)

It’s generally good in theory but the reality is it’s a fairly bad implementation. And, on top of that, it’s ONLY a noticeable situation in the US.
I don't think I want RCS indeed, given all I have read. But I would like a standard. Right now I have 5 messaging apps on my phone. I only like two of them (iMessage and Signal), but am unfortunately unable to completely avoid the other three.
 
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I believe all of the conspiracy theories regarding Alphabet. I'm more than happy to have imessage which keeps me separate from Google's prying eyes. I want nothing of a shared platform with Google, I want to stay totally separated from them!!
 
You reap what you sow, Google.


Even if Google could magically roll out RCS everywhere, it's a poor standard to build a messaging platform on because it is dependent on a carrier phone bill. It's anti-Internet and can't natively work on webpages, PCs, smartwatches, and tablets, because those things don't have SIM cards. The carriers designed RCS, so RCS puts your carrier bill at the center of your online identity, even when free identification methods like email exist and work on more devices. Google is just promoting carrier lock-in as a solution to Apple lock-in.

Despite Google's complaining about iMessage, the company seems to have learned nothing from its years of messaging failure. Today, Google messaging is the worst and most fragmented it has ever been. As of press time, the company runs eight separate messaging platforms, none of which talk to each other: there is Google Messages/RCS, which is being promoted today, but there's also Google Chat/Hangouts, Google Voice, Google Photos Messages, Google Pay Messages, Google Maps Business Messages, Google Stadia Messages, and Google Assistant Messaging. Those last couple of apps aren't primarily messaging apps but have all ended up rolling their own siloed messaging platform because no dominant Google system exists for them to plug into.
 
There were some great points made in the comment section and I agree it sounds like RCS is a good idea. I have to ask though, who tf is bullying "green bubble people"? I don't know if this is just something you hear about in the tech sphere but I have never heard of this in real life lol
 
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Like you, all I need is simple messages, but not always 1-on-1. Sometimes I'm included in group conversations. As there is no cross-platform standard for group conversations, people are using other applications (like WhatsApp) for those group conversations. I would very much welcome an updates SMS standard that does allow group conversations.

MMS (which iPhone obv supports, people just refer to it as SMS) supports group conversations.

It tends to kind of suck when you have one person in the group who doesn't have iMessage, because it will downgrade the conversation (crappier delivery, less features, etc)

This will in no way be different with RCS, where the transport is still a bit ****** and the recipients likely don't have the right apps/sticker packs (and don't have the built-in functionality to cope with their absence).
 
There were some great points made in the comment section and I agree it sounds like RCS is a good idea. I have to ask though, who tf is bullying "green bubble people"? I don't know if this is just something you hear about in the tech sphere but I have never heard of this in real life lol

I have no idea who these people are, but there is a bit of “research” supporting that it happens. Basically like they find that people on dating apps are X times less likely to reply if you have green bubbles. Kids in school tend to drop people with green bubbles from group chats. Stuff like that.

*Research is in parentheses since this is mostly all poll based data. The social sciences and all that jazz.
 
I wouldn't expect support, period. RCS is a stream of other closed-user groups, deployments that only talk to themselves and none of the others - it's just a catch-all term of expected functionality. In order to get inside Google's version, they'd need to give Google access to Messages, or allow Google access to SMS -- another app. Google doesn't make it's API available, it's totally closed. In both scenarios, Google would be able to read at-rest data and harvest it... which is kinda what their real business is and what they really want. The data.
I don't dispute that Apple might not support an SMS successor. They have a long history of trying to pick winners and losers when it comes to standards. Not only was RCS not invented by Apple, they likely consider it a poor imitation of iMessage and have no incentive. Even their users aren't going to clamour for it because they like their iPhone exclusivity.

Where I disagree with your comment is around Google access to data. Google doesn't have access to the SMS database on iPhone. There are no 3rd party SMS apps on iPhone, no reading "at-rest" SMS data on iOS, and there is no reason that RCS would change that. The only way Google would be able to see more data is if more iPhone users started texting Android users as a result of RCS. And anyone who has needed RCS-like features for cross platform communication (like mixed mobile OS households or friend groups) has already found something else. The ones that know enough to care about E2E are already using Signal and would continue to do so. What Google has to gain from RCS adoption is that people won't be as motivated to seek out other apps to get those features. I think it would impact Facebook/Meta more than Apple.
 
Clearly, SMS as a basic "default" messaging platform needs major improvement, and RCS is at least a viable option with more modern features. Apple can keep RCS messages green but it would be beneficial to everyone Apple and Android users alike if the RCS features were available as the fallback on iOS Messages instead of or in addition to SMS. Apple should not care if the green messages are SMS or RCS or both.
Google is almost exclusively the provider for RCS services for most of the major carriers in the US, be it running the actual servers, or a partnership to bundle an RCS app.

RCS, for all intents and purposes, is Google from an infrastructure standpoint. No thanks.
 
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There were some great points made in the comment section and I agree it sounds like RCS is a good idea. I have to ask though, who tf is bullying "green bubble people"? I don't know if this is just something you hear about in the tech sphere but I have never heard of this in real life lol
My real life includes a teenager who wants to fit in. The green bubble is a way for Apple to let everone in a group chat know who doesn't fit in. This is not a tech sphere thing, it is real life. Entirely overwhelming real life at that age.
 
Google is almost exclusively the provider for RCS services for most of the major carriers in the US, be it running the actual servers, or a partnership to bundle an RCS app.

RCS, for all intents and purposes, is Google from an infrastructure standpoint. No thanks.
You have wiretapping laws in the US. Your three letter agencies may flaunt those laws and even force companies like the telcos and Google (and Apple) to let them tap in without telling anyone. But if you are correct about Google running the majority of the infrastructure, what is your specific concern?
 
Because it would be the right thing to do. I’m not a fan of iMessage lock in. Open communication standards = better for everyone.
Excited theft: How open you say?

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You have wiretapping laws in the US. Your three letter agencies may flaunt those laws and even force companies like the telcos and Google (and Apple) to let them tap in without telling anyone. But if you are correct about Google running the majority of the infrastructure, what is your specific concern?
Because Google has been a facto soft power outgrowth of those agencies from its very inception.
 
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I don't dispute that Apple might not support an SMS successor. They have a long history of trying to pick winners and losers when it comes to standards. Not only was RCS not invented by Apple, they likely consider it a poor imitation of iMessage and have no incentive. Even their users aren't going to clamour for it because they like their iPhone exclusivity.

Where I disagree with your comment is around Google access to data. Google doesn't have access to the SMS database on iPhone. There are no 3rd party SMS apps on iPhone, no reading "at-rest" SMS data on iOS, and there is no reason that RCS would change that. The only way Google would be able to see more data is if more iPhone users started texting Android users as a result of RCS. And anyone who has needed RCS-like features for cross platform communication (like mixed mobile OS households or friend groups) has already found something else. The ones that know enough to care about E2E are already using Signal and would continue to do so. What Google has to gain from RCS adoption is that people won't be as motivated to seek out other apps to get those features. I think it would impact Facebook/Meta more than Apple.

Why are we necro-posting?

Secondly, in order to be able to fall back to SMS - which is required, otherwise Google could just release the app immediately like every other OTT messaging app that exists - Google would need access to the SMS stack, thus gaining that access. Google not having access to that is exactly the point, they want it. Their business is collecting and then selling user metadata, full stop.
 
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