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Apple's business strategy is to monger fear and convince people to settle for less
Yeah, and then, years later, they give it a great name, and they "invented" it (and are charging 3x the price).

They have had excellent UI/UX, and that's why I've been on exclusively AAPL since OS X was first released (and since the first iPhone & iPad). And there's always been a "reality distortion field" and some amount of the fanbois that just cannot see a world where everything Apple does is perfect and if they don't do it, it's not worth doing (nay, doesn't even exist).

And, really, more power to Apple if they can continue to make such a powerful and incredible business out of that. They've done some incredible things for the industry and technology, and I'm not denying that.

But, man, they've stumbled a lot lately, and to see the logical/reality yoga the fanbois have had to contort themselves into to try and suggest that 1) there is no value/nothing to see outside the walled garden 2) AAPL is actually ahead 3) "you don't need anything out there!" when you show them what _is_ outside the walled garden, man, it makes me wonder if I'm somehow now in some cult?

This message sent from my Fold 7 b/c there is no way in hell my iPhone 16 PM could do what this thing does (typed this while watching a YT video to learn something new, while half listening to a conference call "supervising" a team, been doing that for an hour and battery is still at 83%, on a display that's more than 2x larger than the iPhone 16PM).

Yup, fear & settle for less is right ("Only we can protect your data!", "It's not safe outside our App Store!"). Hahahahaha. I have both the 1 Infinite Loop Kool-Aid stack and the Android stack, and I have never been able to say this in the nearly 25 yrs of using OS X, iOS, iPadOS, etc ecosystem: it's a distant 2nd. They have a lot of work to do to recover.
 
Same here, but they DID push the 16 because of the Siri AI availability across the board. Which is what this is totally about. It is sort of comical tho :)
Yea Apple screwed the pooch on that part of it. I’m sure they learned their lesson. If and when the ai gets better than fine I will check it out, but what I have tried it’s not really of any consequence.
 
Luckily, as more and more things go web-app/PWA/just plan web-friendly, it's becoming less and less of an issue. Just Google Docs/Sheets on the web (and the first party apps of these are actually great on the device), Slack, and VibeTunnel, Jira, and a few others things and I can get away with just the Fold 7 for most things I need to do (mostly management, business line stuff, some light PR review, maybe occasionally some prototype dev to show a concept to the team developing something). Means I can travel nearly indefinitely with just the Fold 7, a fold up keyboard (love the ProtoArc TP), and maybe a powerbank/very small solar panel (depending on season/where I'm going). Hell, the Starlink Mini is now the biggest thing in my kit.
I remember at the June 2007 WWDC, Jobs declared that the iPhone, to be released about two and a half weeks later, wouldn't run user-installable apps, but just the built-in apps and web-based apps. He claimed it was the best way to ensure security. After a lot of pushback he changed course, and in Oct 2007 Apple announced the SDK for iPhone developers. The App Store went online in July 2008, but until then, developers created a few web-based apps.

Seems that for at least some things, Jobs is still sort of getting his wish.
 
who will lead Apple towards PROPER innovation? Will Apple be 10 years ahead of everyone else ever again? ... I really thought Apple will forever be ahead of their competition ... I don’t really count the flop that Vision OS really is

Apple Vision is far from a flop. Apple has a vision, not everyone does. But over time you may see where they are headed.

Apple has raised the bar for new products to the point where having an incredibly polished interface, incredible functionality, and an app store with thousands of apps isn't enough to "wow" people anymore. If you remember when iPhone launched, it didn't even have an app store. Way too expensive, basic functionality. iPad was endlessly ridiculed for being 4x iphones duct taped together. No apps at launch but ugly scaled up iPhone apps. What was the killer app again? What IS the killer app for ipad today? I couldn't tell you. Doesn't seem to stop people from buying em.

Vision Pro is 100x more polished than either of those. They keep making it even better. I use mine all the time. People want Apple to innovate on phones...maybe there is just a limit to how much you can pack into a little rectangle of glass? Do we need to spend MORE time on our phones? What exactly needs to be more compelling about something we know we use way too much anyway? Vision Pro is literally the first device where I thought "yea, if this was as easy to carry around as an iPhone, with cellular and all day battery life...I would not actually need to carry my phone.

Vision Pro is just as much of a flop as iPhone or iPad. Who cares if google makes a thin and light phone. Grab one on discount, I'm sure it's going to be adequate, as all pixel phones generally are. But if you want something 10 years ahead you need to have some vision.
 
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Apple Vision is far from a flop. Apple has a vision, not everyone does. But over time you may see where they are headed.

Apple has raised the bar for new products to the point where having an incredibly polished interface, incredible functionality, and an app store with thousands of apps isn't enough to "wow" people anymore. If you remember when iPhone launched, it didn't even have an app store. Way too expensive, basic functionality. iPad was endlessly ridiculed for being 4x iphones duct taped together. No apps at launch but ugly scaled up iPhone apps. What was the killer app again? What IS the killer app for ipad today? I couldn't tell you. Doesn't seem to stop people from buying em.

Vision Pro is 100x more polished than either of those. They keep making it even better. I use mine all the time. People want Apple to innovate on phones...maybe there is just a limit to how much you can pack into a little rectangle of glass? Do we need to spend MORE time on our phones? What exactly needs to be more compelling about something we know we use way too much anyway? Vision Pro is literally the first device where I thought "yea, if this was as easy to carry around as an iPhone, with cellular and all day battery life...I would not actually need to carry my phone.

Vision Pro is just as much of a flop as iPhone or iPad. Who cares if google makes a thin and light phone. Grab one on discount, I'm sure it's going to be adequate, as all pixel phones generally are. But if you want something 10 years ahead you need to have some vision.

It's a flop man, just stop. I don't care about over time, Apple shouldn't sell unfinished products to fundraise their "vision". They sold it the same way they sold iPhone 16 and their AI flop. Just like Airpower, but this time they just went ahead with it and started selling it. Cool concept, doesn't stick.

The iPhone snowballed like crazy within 2-3 years while being basic and too expensive and became a phenomenon, everyone wanted one and 2 years later everyone had to have one. The iPad was great for people who didn't want a Macbook and iPads still outsell Macbooks every year for its usability that a lot of people find superior over Macbooks. People really just wanted to consume content and browse internet on a larger touchscreen. Apple sold 3 million iPads in the first 80 days after launch, it was a hit. It was something people wanted and could use daily, it was cool to have one. Ever seen a person in a cafe with Vision Pro on their head?

Vision Pro is useless for majority of people, people have no problem spending the money on it if they see a reasonable use case in it. The fact is that it's useless, uncomfortable, takes long time to produce and frankly majority of people aren't really buying into the VR hype train that left the station like 5 years ago. People won't be sitting at home with a headset, people won't be walking around with it in town, people won't and honestly shouldn't use it at all if you ask me. It's a stupid product. Apple knows it's a flop, they scaled down the production, they released the prototype as a test run and to appear like they're doing something new. Cook was told to make sure Apple releases a new product in a new category, so here we have it.

Saying Vision Pro is just as much of a flop as iPhone or iPad is just nuts, you should take it back. Vision Pro is a flop, nobody cares about it. The iPhone and iPad were both a hit and the hive wanted one from the moment they were released. The hive's reaction to Vision Pro was "meh" at best.

Apple currently doesn't have a visionary at their helm, Vision Pro is a cool idea but a vision? Really? My vision is having something to completely replace a phone. It won't be glasses, you can bet on that. If the Apple Watch supported wireless Carplay, I would just ditch my iPhone and use Apple Watch instead. The Apple Watch could be so much more, but Apple just doesn't have the vision. People who wear glasses hate them (or at least majority would prefer to not have to wear them), why would anyone wear smart glasses voluntarily? Glasses or headsets WILL NEVER BE as popular as the iPhone. Vision Pro was "a vision" maybe 10 years ago and it's at least 5 years too late. If you want something 10 years ahead, look at Ive and Altman and whatever they are doing.
 
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Great Ad. I was an early adopter of the 15pro because it was 'sold' as the first iPhone with a chip that can do AI locally. Then I discovered it was not available, but it was coming soon.
 
It’s not about being afraid. Windows is a PITA to use, Android is also PITA to use. Apple has it’s faults but I would rather chew an old boot than willingly daily Windows and Android. I have to use Windows 11 for work and it’s dreadful. You can sh*t done, but how you get it done is just on a different low on Windows. Android is absolutely horrible hot mess. Apple keeping junk out is a good thing, and Apple not wanting to share their polished stuff is absolutely fine. Why would anyone voluntarily use Android or Windows is beyond me, macOS and iOS are just superior. Period.
Some of you guys don't need to say you're old...you show it in your responses lol.
 
Technology outside Apple? Are you talking about satellite navigational systems or homescreen widgets?
His original post said tech outside of the apple ecosystem I believe. So I would think that narrows it down to Android, and some Windows, Unix/Linux only things. Because being in the Apple ecosystem doesn't prevent us from using other tech, just not tech that is made for non Apple products. Like, I can use a PS5 and be in the Apple ecosystem. Heck, I can even run windows on my MacBook. That's why I ask for specifics, so I could understand what he was talking about. Maybe I am missing something that he knows? But he has no answers.
 
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Atleast Apple Intelligence doesn’t encourage people to eat rocks and glue on pizza
Well, TBF no one would even try eating the glue on pizza. I mean, maybe straight out of the Elmer’s bottle but once you’ve put it on pizza heck no. Just downright gross.

Me, OTOH, prefers to eat paste. And sniff Testor’s model glue down in the basement. But maybe I’ve said too much…
 
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jesus...who cares about some Ai or other useless things when we got new icons and glassy look. Noone* has that!

*except all windows users 15 years ago
If you look closely you'll see the new UI is a 2d projection of a 3d interface. They've added a z dimension (forward and back). This brings iOS, MacOS, etc up to date with Vision Pro, which is their new flagship.

I completely understand if you think this is laughably stupid. Let's see where were at in 5 years.
 
Apple fanboy here! apple intelligence was great marketing. Till it wasnt. Man its really bad. Siri was also a let down too. Samsung is way cooler. I dont think Id ever buy a pixel, but those Samsungs are looking better everyday.
Apple Intelligence was an architectural release and not a feature release. They just need to market something or people start getting antsy. Very impatient despite Apple doing pretty good at delivering in general over the last 10 years.
 
The walled garden works until it doesn't. One of the major moats Apple had (has?) is dominance on silicon in AI, but they've completely been unable to leverage it for years now, while it's been a weak spot for Android devices (the inference speed and price per W/Token is incredible on the A/M series chip with Unified Memory arch, but it's basically gone totally unused and at least underleveraged).

The Snapdragon, Exynos, etc devices are quickly catching up (and in some ways surpassing) and AAPL's unified stack still "feels" better, but you do have to wonder, how much longer this will hold out, especially as the phone form factor arguably becomes less critical as AI interactions become more and more ambient and less time eyes-on-screen in the future.
What exactly is 'holding out'? I'd be very surprised if any noticeable number of users switch away from iPhone to Google to use an app you can download on iPhone already. People switch to Android because it's cheaper, or because tech is a hobby for them and their phone doesn't have enough useless knobs to play with. If AI is going to be part of it, it's at minimum going to need to be exclusive to Android I would think.
 
What exactly is 'holding out'? I'd be very surprised if any noticeable number of users switch away from iPhone to Google to use an app you can download on iPhone already. People switch to Android because it's cheaper, or because tech is a hobby for them and their phone doesn't have enough useless knobs to play with. If AI is going to be part of it, it's at minimum going to need to be exclusive to Android I would think.
I'm talking a bit longer arc than just an app or two (which, BTW, the Gemini app on iOS is nowhere near what Gemini is on an Android phone, not even close, it's as much that as a Pontiac Fiero with some bondo painted to look like a Ferrari is a Ferrari....but set that aside, it's not even about that).I'm fundamentally talking about two things:

1. How people interact with technology. The actual human-computer interface that to-date has been largely screen-based, direct interaction in one form or the other.

2. Openness of a platform _or_ the platform being _so damn good_ that openness doesn't matter.

Traditionally, and I think the point you're making, is that Apple does those two so well right now, it's not even close. I'd agree for the moment.

But, it remains to be seen if Siri's continued trainwreck is "Apple just being the best not the first" (which I think everyone outside of the PR dept at 1 Infinite Loop knows is a series of errors, personnel issues, mistakes, strategic errors, etc that have compounded that have not yet actually been solved entirely. They'll sort it out, no doubt, but how much of this lead do they continue to borrow from in the mean time is a question no one really has the answer to.

What makes that question more interesting (and the answer higher stakes) is how it relates with #2. Governments are putting more pressure on (and courts are upholding) the walls of the garden, so, that further weakens the position (and accelerates that timeline at some level), but that's a lot less important than, now, the stakes are *really* high for Apple to deliver in AI, wearables, developer platform (this one doesn't get the airtime it needs...its a big part of how Apple rose to dominance beyond the vacuum they created masterfully in the market, of course, but IDK if you've seen the app devex on iOS/macos right now, it's truly horrible...Swift is a hot mess and the tooling is terrible...it's bad when Python & JS ecosystems/toolchains are better by comparison, which used to be the opposite), vehicle integration, home assistants/devices, media consumption, etc.

The chinks in the armor will add up over time. They are adding up. Apple Intelligence not being great is a big problem. And the Gemini App on iOS isn't the full experience. Have you used a modern android flagship? If your assessment is "they're just cheaper with more useless knobs" I think that maybe sign you haven't touched one in a year or so at least. The Fold 7 sitting next to my iPhone 16 PM is a _far more_ seamless, low touch "just works" UX than iOS 18 or iOS 26 is (and I'm not talking reliability on iOS 26, it's a beta, I'm talking number-of-touches-to-do-something kinda "just works").

And that's the key thing: Apple's current product line is heavily dependent on your eyes on a screen, on a buzz in your pocket or on your wrist resulting in an interaction. It's also where they are best. The place they are weakest and have the least market presence, moat, differentiation, or leadership (they don't even play in some of these) are: home assistants/devices & appliances (Google's offerings are far and away more robust, useful, and better here, and a part of that is how terrible Siri is makes a HomePod an expensive and good sounding brick, but also, Google's is in far more form factors, from thermostats, to security cameras, refrigerators even!), cars (CarPlay is not good, Android Auto is passable, so this is anyone's game perhaps, but don't discount Google's investment in Waymo that is without a doubt the long arc where Apple's already admitted defeat: what happens when far fewer people are the actual driver in their car, but they're the Pax...have you been in a Waymo? You control the music and the ride itself from, amongst other places, Google Assistant and Gemini....you don't even need to touch a screen unless you're on iOS, b/c, well, Apple only wants you to talk to Siri), wearables (Apple does great here, the watch is truly great, and Android Wear was far behind for a long time, but again, Siri is the achilles' heel...Gemini on the new Wear kit is damn good), TVs (this one is scary for Apple, when you buy a TV that runs Android or the like, it becomes a lot harder to sell another $150 box to go with it...for now, Apple's winning on content, let's see how long they can keep that in their garden and if margins are going to be good enough here), MacOS/Computers (Windows is terrible, but heavily penetrated, good luck with using an iOS device to its fullest if you're on a Windows device, you won't, but you can with an Android device).

Also, Apple's most recent advancement they have wielded well as a weapon is Apple Silicon. That train is slowing down, and the Snapdragon and other advanced ARM designs are just as good in the mobile space now (not in tablet or laptop/desktop quite yet, but that's changing). Now, it's not about the silicon, _but what you do with it_, and there, man, Apple AI is *SO BAD*. The new Apple Foundation Models are *not good*. They are far worse than even the Chinese OSS SLMs of a generation or two ago. They are embarrassingly bad actually. Gemma 3n absolutely obliterates them. It's not even close. And that's Google's OSS offering *today* (not theoretical, not promised, shipping today and has been for some time). What good is industry leading silicon to run AI better than anyone else when your AI doesn't exist and app developers are bringing in Google's embedded model to run on your silicon? Arguably, the SoCs from Qualcomm will be better suited to run small LLMs and larger SLMs, 16GB on the newer ARM competitors will be far better to run larger models where on device compute is necessary (for Siri like interactions), Apple is only rumored to get up to 12GB with the next rev of the iPhone. That extra 4GB may not sound like much, but it's a LOT. It's the difference between a text only model and a multimodal one. It's quite possibly the difference between summarizing a news article correctly or in a way that suggests something totally false.

I do think visionOS has the most potential of any product in the lineup to keep Apple relevant and dominant. The Humane pin was nothing short of an enormous debacle/dumpster fire/failure, but the thesis is 100% spot on IMO. It'll be a few years before we see it "work", but Apple has to _really_ get its act together with AI to translate their current positioning & leadership into a space like that.

In a world where the screen isn't as important as it is today, Apple's advantage is seriously eroded and eroding faster every day they don't get Siri figured out, appliances/speakers that work well/a good portfolio, and make the native app great again (both in terms of needing one and writing/marketing one).
 
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The horizon of many people is a circle with a radius of zero. They call this their point of view.
Good or bad, the most successful ad campaigns accept this without judgement and exploit it. This is exactly what this ad is doing (and what Apple did with the Mac vs PC ads, which, funny how those tables have turned). I mean, this is a 10 page thread on MacRumors, Google's advertising agency/PR firm really hit this one out of the park: you can't buy (direct) advertising this well penetrated, engaged, etc, and Google is living for VERY low rent in everyone in this thread and who reads this thread's mind! And that's *exactly* the goal.
 
Good or bad, the most successful ad campaigns accept this without judgement and exploit it. This is exactly what this ad is doing (and what Apple did with the Mac vs PC ads, which, funny how those tables have turned). I mean, this is a 10 page thread on MacRumors, Google's advertising agency/PR firm really hit this one out of the park: you can't buy (direct) advertising this well penetrated, engaged, etc, and Google is living for VERY low rent in everyone in this thread and who reads this thread's mind! And that's *exactly* the goal.
What i was really criticizing with my post was the reflexive beating and bashing against Android and the blinded and desperate praising of iOS without ever really trying a latest Android device from Google, Samsung, Oppo, etc. pp.

[edit] ...which are meanwhile really fine, well developed, user orientated, finely manufactured devices!
But you can only lead a horse to the water - it has to drink by itself!
 
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