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2) Apple users have especially difficult time understanding other tools. That's because other tools are usually designed with a different philosophy in mind. They are usually geared towards more capable people, provide more features which indeed may lead to less intuitive interfaces. Just compare a bicycle and a motor-bike. Increase in performance inevitably leads to more controls and the need to learn stuff.

I used Windows Mobile on 3 different handsets (2 Samsungs and 1 HTC) for 5 years prior to buying a 3GS. I hacked the crap out of them to get them to tether, stream audio over bluetooth, etc. I like the iPhone not because I don't know how to tinker, but because it's better designed. I can forego things like USB ports for having something reliable and intuitive, and with a plethora of music and apps within reach. If Google can replicate and exceed the Apple user experience, then I'll switch to Android. But they haven't so far.

I also gotta add Apple doesn't have a wierd business model going on (like Google does, alternating their flagship phone and their latest OS between HTC and Motorola every 3 months).
 
I won't argue with this in general, because it is a subjective matter. I had no problems using a friend's Nexus One.

What I fail to understand is the hostility toward the idea of a Google tablet. If the iPad is clearly superior, then you have nothing to lose. If the google tablet is better, then you as a consumer will have better options available. You should be excited about that. If a google tablet has some features that are better than the iPad and some that aren't, then Apple will have an incentive to improve the iPad.

As a consumer, the introduction of a google tablet is a no-lose proposition. The only explanation I can think of for hostility toward a google tablet is an irrational loyalty to Apple, or fear that a device you've already purchased is no longer the 'new hotness'. Am I missing something?

And by "You" I am not referring specifically to uberamd, but to all the posters who seem to be concerned about the mere possibility of a google tablet.
I'm far from hostile to the idea-- Android might make a decent tablet OS, but I can understand the negative reactions.

First, there is a feeling that while the big players have fumbled around looking for a salable tablet design for years and failed. Apple appears to have hit the right formula, and the rewards they should reap from that innovation are being quickly hijacked by a bunch of knock-offs. I think the reaction is similar to the disgust people feel when they see the market flooded by cheap foreign knock-offs of successful products, just minus the elitism and xenophobia.

Second, I think people feel Google is going out of its way to be a bully. Some of this is just the distaste that develops for big companies (and most people you ask on the street probably don't realize that Apple's market cap is bigger than Googles), but some of it is a feeling of "was it really worth coming all the way over here just to mess with me?".

Third, I think you're mistaken that the introduction of a Google tablet is a no-lose proposition for consumers. What happens if, because the available consumer demand is so subdivided, that no company can justify participating? What happens if, like HD-DVD and Blu Ray, consumers decide to wait out the OS battle and there are fewer consumers over all, or fewer third party resources put into supporting any given platform? Tablets aside, consumers of Google's other products will be hurt if they divert resources to fighting Apple in the tablet market. If Apple wins, Google's web services users will never recoup the lost resources that could have been spent on better search. If Google wins, Macbook users will never recoup the resources Apple spends trying to fight off Google.
 
Second, I think people feel Google is going out of its way to be a bully. Some of this is just the distaste that develops for big companies (and most people you ask on the street probably don't realize that Apple's market cap is bigger than Googles), but some of it is a feeling of "was it really worth coming all the way over here just to mess with me?".

Seems to me that this situation is no different than what Apple is doing to Adobe (regardless what your position on Flash is).

As for Google being a bully, they are a company that has been built on the accessibility of data on the internet. The more people access the internet, the more money they will potentially make. It makes sense that they want to market devices that continue this trend. Now, if they got into the desktop computing business, I could see this as being weird. But, building devices geared towards jumping on the internet is where it's at right now and they want their piece. Is Apple the only company that is allowed to do this? Now, Apple getting into the advertising business is another story....
 
...
The more people access the internet, the more money they will potentially make. It makes sense that they want to market devices that continue this trend. Now, if they got into the desktop computing business, I could see this as being weird.
...
How do you see mobile devices as being different than desktop devices?
 
I think the new tablet will likely run Chrome OS with a lot of features taken from Android.

Given the hardware requirements for Chroms OS, that whole thing screams "tablet computer operating system."
 
So many comments to reply to...



Chrome OS has "web Apps" and will fully incorporate HTML5 to make these appear more traditional.



The exponential growth of Android appears to be at odds with the above statement. Have you used it?
I think Apple has some serious competition. The new microsoft KIN women phones actually look pretty damn cool and makes both the new OS4 and Android OS look old.
Check them out here.
04-12-10kinstudio.png


The Kin is a phone for prepubescent girls. Not sure how you compare that to OS4.
 
I'm far from hostile to the idea-- Android might make a decent tablet OS, but I can understand the negative reactions.

I appreciate the well-reasoned response. I think all the points you make are valid.

First, there is a feeling that while the big players have fumbled around looking for a salable tablet design for years and failed. Apple appears to have hit the right formula, and the rewards they should reap from that innovation are being quickly hijacked by a bunch of knock-offs. I think the reaction is similar to the disgust people feel when they see the market flooded by cheap foreign knock-offs of successful products, just minus the elitism and xenophobia.

I agree with this, and I agree with some of the comparisons to MP3 players and smartphones. As an owner of many of the devices that came before Apple's versions, I can attest to the awful usability of Nokia's Symbian products, and Archos' music players. Apple pioneered "good" and "usable" products in each of these areas, and has enjoyed the fruits of being a 'first mover' as a result.

However I hope we can all agree that there is room for improvement in Apple's products. I think there's ample evidence that Apple is willing to stagnate until pushed by its competitors. Last year in smartphones that was Android and Palm (only one of which seems to have had staying power). This year in tablets, perhaps it will be Android again.

I'm willing to bet that without competition, Apple would not have put such emphasis on improving the camera on the 3GS, nor on implementing multitasking.

Second, I think people feel Google is going out of its way to be a bully. Some of this is just the distaste that develops for big companies (and most people you ask on the street probably don't realize that Apple's market cap is bigger than Googles), but some of it is a feeling of "was it really worth coming all the way over here just to mess with me?".

I don't see any actions on Google's part that indicates it's bullying Apple. There are simply rumors that it's developing a tablet based on its mobile operating system. Most of the public discussion I've seen from high-profile Google employees has been complementary of the iPad.

This is actually a sore point for me. I perceive an attitude that anybody who *dares* to compete with Apple is somehow stepping on hallowed ground. The tablet market has a lot of room for many players.

Third, I think you're mistaken that the introduction of a Google tablet is a no-lose proposition for consumers. What happens if, because the available consumer demand is so subdivided, that no company can justify participating?

If no company could justify participating, clearly we'd be back to just one company :)

What happens if, like HD-DVD and Blu Ray, consumers decide to wait out the OS battle and there are fewer consumers over all, or fewer third party resources put into supporting any given platform?

IMO hashing the technical battle out in the court of public opinion would be a great option. For example Apple has chosen not to include a camera, while clearly a great many consumers would prefer one. If not for competition, that segment of the market would be left unfulfilled. With competition, we can find that, perhaps, a camera is actually a useful addition. Or perhaps other vendors will come out with products that support 3G from Verizon, or 4G from Sprint.

Tablets aside, consumers of Google's other products will be hurt if they divert resources to fighting Apple in the tablet market. If Apple wins, Google's web services users will never recoup the lost resources that could have been spent on better search. If Google wins, Macbook users will never recoup the resources Apple spends trying to fight off Google.

My problem with this reasoning is that it assumes that a single company (Apple, and really a single person, Steve Jobs) can anticipate all consumers' needs. Of course companies divert resources to compete -- Imagine what the car market would be like if the only company producing cars was GM. Only because Toyota was willing to divert resources from the Camry do we now have the Prius. And because Google was willing to divert resources from search, we now have gmail. And because Apple was willing to divert resources from the Mac division, we now have the iPhone.

Innovation occurs when companies decide to take a risk. The iPad is a risk. The google tablet, if it exists, is a risk. Without risks there would be no rewards. As a consumer, I appreciate that Apple released the iPad. I'll likely buy one when the 3G version is released. But I don't like the app store policies, the lack of a camera, the lack of 4G, etc.. So I also appreciate that other vendors will release products that will pressure Apple to improve its products. As a consumer, I can't help but think that I'll win as a result.

In fact I *know* I'll win. I have an iPhone that, in my opinion, proves that competition improves products.
 
Good for Google! Competition is good for the consumer, folks. Who cares if it's a rip off of the iPad -- it may actually end up being better! And hopefully that will push the iPad to be better. It's a good thing! Constantly striving to make a superior product. Hopefully Google will be able to grab some ideas from what Apple did & add some things that Apple didn't do, like front-facing camera for video chat. They'll also probably be able to access HTML5 content AS WELL AS FLASH, giving the end-user a more complete web experience. Good for Google!
 
Prove it then. Show me proof that people want camera's in tablets

Ok, I tell you a personal story. I am flying in a small airline international routes. Most of our pilots have macs. NONE of them is interested in the iPad because they want a camera for Skype. It would be an ideal travel device - especially on short trips when you just have to check emails, read articles, manuals and other stuff. But of course we use video chats to keep in touch with loved ones.

While you might think a camera is not that important and we could use Skype without video calls, the truth is, that we rather bring our MBs and MBPs (with camera...) along instead, which we consider the "smaller" inconvenience.

So no camera - no deal, unfortunately. And I am sure our group is not the only one who thinks like that ;)
 
Ok, I tell you a personal story. I am flying in a small airline international routes. Most of our pilots have macs. NONE of them is interested in the iPad because they want a camera for Skype. It would be an ideal travel device - especially on short trips when you just have to check emails, read articles, manuals and other stuff. But of course we use video chats to keep in touch with loved ones.

While you might think a camera is not that important and we could use Skype without video calls, the truth is, that we rather bring our MBs and MBPs (with camera...) along instead, which we consider the "smaller" inconvenience.

So no camera - no deal, unfortunately. And I am sure our group is not the only one who thinks like that ;)

Then buy one of the external cameras available. Why should I have to deal with the cost and weight of a camera just because YOU want one?

If you give a MacRumors member a camera...

... They will complain that it doesn't face the right angle when using it...

... Or that it doesn't have a flash...

... Or that it drains battery too fast

Apple can never satisfy all the haters. They always find a complaint.

Or it adds cost for the people who don't need it. Or they can't take their iPad into secure areas in government installations or businesses. Or the camera doesn't have enough megapixels. Or the camera has too many megapixels. Or that it's hard to hold the iPad steady enough to take pictures with the camera. Or any of 10,000 other whiny complaints. I've never seen such a bunch of negative whiners.
 
I'm not conceding anything. But if a camera was a big issue then the ipad would have sold less than the nexus one and it didn't. So tell me once again if everyone wanted a camera in the ipad. Why did it sell so well?

It's obvious you think you right. I think i'm right. But the proof is in the numbers so we can go around and around but untill people stop buying the ipad. That means that the camera is not an issue.

Since the iPad wasn't introduced with a camera we can't know how many more of them might have sold if it had had one. I'm sure Apple will add it in the future to help continued sales since I am sure they know consumers want one. Apple always holds back on features so they have things for future gen products even if those features are old. It's the Apple way.
 
well if you can't beat em, copy em, right? i just hope google doesn't end up ahead of apple by just copying them

Why do you hope for that? Because, god forbid, you'd want to buy a Google tablet then? If someone produces something better than Apple it's good for your, right? Or you'd be more happy to buy inferior product?
 
No. I was referring to the fact that we really should be seeing more than 64gb max memory in 2010 on a device like this, thereby negating the need for carrying around memory cards.

The idea of having a card slot would be to easily get photos from your camera on to the device without the need for an adaptor that you have to lug around and possibly lose.

Clear?

So you're out lugging your ipad AND you're lugging your camera BUT a pissy little adapter is the straw that breaks the camel's back.

Yes, we're clear, you have a solution looking for a problem.
 
Then buy one of the external cameras available. Why should I have to deal with the cost and weight of a camera just because YOU want one?

Well, I just tried to give you an example. In a group of roughly 20 or more Mac owners, none is interested in a device which doesn't have a camera.

If you believe that a webcam adds much to a device which weighs 1.5 lbs and costs ~ 500USD min, then I have to laugh my a$$ off. :rolleyes:

And no, I won't be traveling with an external webacam. I will travel with my MBP instead ;)
 
No. I was referring to the fact that we really should be seeing more than 64gb max memory in 2010 on a device like this, thereby negating the need for carrying around memory cards.

The idea of having a card slot would be to easily get photos from your camera on to the device without the need for an adaptor that you have to lug around and possibly lose.

Clear?

It might be easier for you, but in my case, not. All my dSLR bodies use CF. So in my case, the SD slot is just another orifice that lets dust and grime get in. I'm actually upset that Apple put those damn things into the MBP, when I preferred the expansion slot (with flip cover.)
 
Personal computer market = small
Apple releases a personal computer
More competitors release personal computers
Personal computer market = large

Digital music player market = small
Apple releases a digital music player
More competitors release digital music players
Digital music player market = large

Touchscreen phone market = small
Apple releases a touchscreen phone
More competitors release touchscreen phones
Touchscreen phone market = large

Tablet computer market = small
Apple releases a tablet computer
More competitors release tablet computers
Tablet computer market = ???

This is to be expected by now. While you can't give Apple credit for completely creating these markets, it's hard to deny that they were there before the markets took off.

And I'm sure you believe CO2 is the cause for our warming planet.

My question is, where did all the apple fan boys come from?

I think the golden days of apple just passed and no one even noticed. RIP non evil apple...

Hello AppleSoft!:D
 
It's the truth. People complain about apple all the time. If apple had included dual hdmi ports, 1080p, 3D, DVR support and stuff out of your wildest dreams people would still complain.

I suppose it's human nature to do that. When i went to high school people picked on the artsy guy in the corner because he get all A's and did his own thing.

So some complaints are valid but in this case they aren't because when it comes to apple people will always find something to complain about and hold to to a standard that other companies that make the same thing arent

You forgot USB3 ports and a Blu-ray drive! ;)
 
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