Google Stands Behind HTC in Patent Dispute With Apple

[myamid]

Do people even get what the patents are for? They are truly absurd. This is not true "patent theft" it's just Apple trying to practically patent the air we breathe. A grid based UI on a phone? That's a patent? I mean come on.

Considering most of the patents mentionned would be invalid outside the US (process patents), this is very weak indeed. I mean, unlocking a phone on a touchscreen is a patentable idea??? Really? There may be 2-3 hardware patents in the bunch worthy of lawsuit, but the software ones... nah... Sure, if code was copied, then is IP theft, but if something works "alike" but isn't the same, then no, Apple should suck it up and innovate. Seriouly, one of the patents is about multitasking support... The only way that could be an infringement that stands is if android contains apple code (much of which would actually be open under GPL!!!)

This case is even weaker than apple suing Microsoft over windows in the late 80's early 90s (and that simple ended up as a cross-licensing settlement if memory serves me right)

Seriously, google should buy Palm (which probably owns most of the mobile UI patents on earth with its PalmOS related patents)... At which point they'd own much if the IP behind most mobile OS UI elements, and be in a stronger position.

 

[Erwin-Br]

"He who steals from a thief has a hundred years of pardon."

Hear it form SJ own lips. Apples motto is to "Steal Ideas". He quotes Picasso another "artist" who was also a thieve.

Watch the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CW0DUg63lqU

Haha, unbelievable. "Cupertino, start your photocopiers". I wonder what the fanboys have to say about this. They've always been up in arms against Microsoft's alleged copying.

 

[Manxman]

:lol: at the idiots who view Google as the plucky underdog here.

They're developing into the most harmful monopoly we've ever seen, with huge social implications, they make the MS of the 1990s look like the Salvation Army. We seem to really want a single unaccountable corporation to control ALL our data, essentially everything we think, what could possibly go wrong? don't be evil indeed, sleepwalking into it.

As for this situation, Apple has patents. That is all there is to this, unless you're on some autistic anti-copyright crusade.

Eric Schmidt sat on the Apple board throughout the iPhones development, while quietly ripping off all the ideas for Googles own product. That's the thing about original ideas, you can give them away for free, sure go ahead, but someone somewhere will be making money from them.

Apple warned on announcement of the iPhone that they intended to vigorously protect their patents. This was always going to happen, and it's about time someone stood up to Google before they streamroller any more businesses.

 

[DaveSW]

Considering most of the patents mentionned would be invalid outside the US (process patents), this is very weak indeed.

The US is one of the largest and most important markets. So, no the patents are not "very weak indeed".

 

[cmaier]

Considering most of the patents mentionned would be invalid outside the US (process patents), this is very weak indeed. I mean, unlocking a phone on a touchscreen is a patentable idea??? Really? There may be 2-3 hardware patents in the bunch worthy of lawsuit, but the software ones... nah... Sure, if code was copied, then is IP theft, but if something works "alike" but isn't the same, then no, Apple should suck it up and innovate.

This case is even weaker than apple suing Microsoft over windows in the late 80's early 90s (and that simple ended up as a cross-licensing settlement if memory serves me right)

Process patents are legal outside the US (you are probably thinking of business method patents or software algorithm patents). Most of the patents are actually not method/process patents, they are device/apparatus patents. The slide-to-unlock patent is a device patent and meets the requirements for patentability in any Treaty nation (that is to say, the subject matter is patentable. No idea if it would be anticipated or rendered obvious by prior art or otherwise invalid).

 

[Erwin-Br]

Cute emoticons not withstanding, nowhere am I saying that Nokia has no right to sue Apple. If they feel they've been infringed upon and can prove it in court and win their case then Apple will pay. I expect the same deference and courtesy if Apple can prove and win their case.

My apologies for assuming you did. You're in the minority here, though.

 

[myamid]

The US is one of the largest and most important markets. So, no the patents are not "very weak indeed".

If Apple felt they had a strong case, they'd have gone against Google, Motorola, Samsung and LG as codefendants. They didn't.

It just looks like they chose the weaker target to test the waters. If it fails, they didn't get that bad a rap, if it succeeds, they have a precedent and everyone else'll just settle the thing before being sued. Maybe smart on Apple's part strategically speaking... On the flip-side, since Google, as the vendor of the OS (of sorts), will likely be brought in whether it likes it or not since HTC cannot have direct liability over what the vendor gave it... Should be interesting real quick.

 

[aegisdesign]

Two different cases. Let's keep them separate.

This case and Apple v Nokia involve the some of the same patents. Apple countered Nokia's claim with pretty much the same patents they are claiming HTC has infringed.

Apple doesn't want to pay the GSM patents because Nokia demands a cross licensing deals for certain technologies which it doesn't ask to other manufactures. Apple wants to pay for the GSM patents but asks to be treated the same way as other manufactures... .

There's no evidence to suggest Nokia have not treated Apple identically to other manufacturers. It's common to suggest cross licencing of patents as payment. Other manufacturers, such as Sony and RIM cross licence patents with Nokia.

Apple are being jerks. They want to use the GSM patents but not pay the same as everyone else because their phone is so über expensive and they question the validity of some of the patents. At the same time they don't want to licence their patents to anybody else, which is their right I guess but it just makes them a prime example of why software patents stifle innovation and create a monopoly on ideas.

What's happened to the company that said "Here's to the crazy ones", while showing images of the last few decades important free thinkers that changed the world often for no greater recompense than because it was the right thing to do.

Why are Apple threatened by Android, WinMo and Symbian? We all know you can deliver a better product than anyone else. Let them licence your ideas. They'll make crap copies of them and you'll still sell boatloads of iPhones to the people that can't see past the marketing spin. Those of us who can will continue to buy other people's phones anyway until your iPhone offers the features we need.

 

[lex750]

Haha, unbelievable. "Cupertino, start your photocopiers". I wonder what the fanboys have to say about this. They've always been up in arms against Microsoft's alleged copying.

The fanboys will deny this in some way or another. They are beyond logic and reason so I just laugh at them. When a CEO of a company quotes someone like Picasso "Good artist copy, great artist steal" they are in direct alignment with that ideology and to them it's a business model which they admire and follow.

 

[aegisdesign]

Do a bit of fact checking. Apple does want to pay for GSM patents from Nokia. They want to pay the same license fee as everyone else has to (which Nokia is obliged to do, as their patents were considered as part of a standard).

Apple have acknowledged that they need Nokia's patents. But Nokia is trying to get more money, and a cross-licensing deal, which they don't have any right to.

Do some fact checking yourself. It has not been stated anywhere that Nokia is asking for more money from Apple than from anyone else or that they are demanding a cross-licensing deal.

Apple have complained that the price of licensing GSM patents is unfair. Nokia have suggested different ways of paying, all of which Apple say is unfair. Nokia then asked for a court to decide what is fair, which Apple didn't like and counter-claimed with some of the same patent infringements that they are claiming against HTC.

Apple are delaying paying for GSM patents as long as the possibly can. They don't want to pay for them in the same way dumb-phone makers do (%age of handset cost) and as they have no patents relating to phone technology, they don't want to give away patents relating to their OS or UI.

 

[Seychelles]

Apple is slowly turning into an evil empire. Everything people have loathed about Microsoft - is now turning true with Apple. Going after a small smartphone company in an attempt to quash the competitive mobile OS is major step towards eventual 'Microsoft-like' fate for Apple.

Will Shipley said it very well in his recent open letter to Apple:


I am officially done with Apple i-products.

great post, in fact I think Apple went past MS in 'evilness' a while back.

Go HTC, Go Google.

 

[xIGmanIx]

guess now apple can flex some of that cash reserves the fan's throw around all the time and brag about apple's stock value.

Kettle, this is the pot, your black.

Do some fact checking yourself. It has not been stated anywhere that Nokia is asking for more money from Apple than from anyone else or that they are demanding a cross-licensing deal.

Apple have complained that the price of licensing GSM patents is unfair. Nokia have suggested different ways of paying, all of which Apple say is unfair. Nokia then asked for a court to decide what is fair, which Apple didn't like and counter-claimed with some of the same patent infringements that they are claiming against HTC.

Apple are delaying paying for GSM patents as long as the possibly can. They don't want to pay for them in the same way dumb-phone makers do (%age of handset cost) and as they have no patents relating to phone technology, they don't want to give away patents relating to their OS or UI.

 

[Seychelles]

bye bye
i guess this comes from someone that never bought a software but just downloaded everything off internet right?
cause this is the same way of thinking
when million / billions of dollars are spent in research to come up with something new and it gets copyrighted, patented etc; everyone else that wants to use the same copyright, patent, etc has to ask permission or pay
is that simple

Nokia and Kodak say hi...

 

[DaveSW]

If Apple felt they had a strong case, they'd have gone against Google, Motorola, Samsung and LG as codefendants. They didn't.

It just looks like they chose the weaker target to test the waters. If it fails, they didn't get that bad a rap, if it succeeds, they have a precedent and everyone else'll just settle the thing before being sued. Maybe smart on Apple's part strategically speaking... On the flip-side, since Google, as the vendor of the OS (of sorts), will likely be brought in whether it likes it or not since HTC cannot have direct liability over what the vendor gave it... Should be interesting real quick.

wow, you don't know much about patent law do you?

This is my comment on one of the previous posts..

"also remember In United States law, an infringement may occur where the defendant has made, used, sold, offered to sell, or imported an infringing invention or its equivalent. One also commits indirect infringement if he actively and knowingly induces another to infringe, and is liable for that infringement. Types of "indirect infringement" include "contributory infringement" and "induced infringement."


HTC made and imported the actual devices which means they committed a direct infringement.


Under certain jurisdictions, Google, by allowing Android to run on HTC devices and selling them, "used" and "sold" and may be liable for indirect or contributory infringement."


HTC committed the direct infringement, NOT Google. 35 U.S.C. 271 defines infringement as "whoever without authority makes, uses, or sells any patented invention, within the United States during the term of the patent therefor, infringes the patent."


in my comment above though under certain jurisdiction, Google may be liable for INDIRECT or CONTROBUTORY infringement.


So Apple is CORRECT when they sued HTC for patent infringement‎. NOT Google. although Google will definitely be dragged into it.

 

[kobewankenobi]

Google + HTC for the win!

I've had enough of the arrogance of Steve Jobs & Co.

I also hope Nokia manages to sue the shirt of Steve Job's back for Apple's patent infringements.

so why in the hell are you in a mac forum?
run troll run

 

[cmaier]

wow, you don't know much about patent law do you?

This is my comment on one of the previous posts..

"also remember In United States law, an infringement may occur where the defendant has made, used, sold, offered to sell, or imported an infringing invention or its equivalent. One also commits indirect infringement if he actively and knowingly induces another to infringe, and is liable for that infringement. Types of "indirect infringement" include "contributory infringement" and "induced infringement."


HTC made and imported the actual devices which means they committed a direct infringement.


Under certain jurisdictions, Google, by allowing Android to run on HTC devices and selling them, "used" and "sold" and may be liable for indirect or contributory infringement."


HTC committed the direct infringement, NOT Google. 35 U.S.C. 271 defines infringement as "whoever without authority makes, uses, or sells any patented invention, within the United States during the term of the patent therefor, infringes the patent."


in my comment above though under certain jurisdiction, Google may be liable for INDIRECT or CONTROBUTORY infringement.


So Apple is CORRECT when they sued HTC for patent infringement‎. NOT Google. although Google will definitely be dragged into it.

Apple could have simultaneously sued both Google and HTC.

 

[myamid]

so why in the hell are you in a mac forum?
run troll run

Maybe because you can like Apple products without thinking Apple the company is always right? Some people own macs and love their macs, and their iPods... but may think the iPad is a useless trinket? Just maybe that type of person exists... maybe!

 

[ChazUK]

For giggles amongst all this serious business:

http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/03/htc-is-hiring/

 

[DaveSW]

Apple could have simultaneously sued both Google and HTC.

Right, and maybe they will file a separate suit against Google which covers a much bigger or different set of patents.

Or by going after HTC, they are trying to scare other manufacturers from supporting Google.

I don't know. your guess is just as good as mine.

 

[Stella]

The US is one of the largest and most important markets. So, no the patents are not "very weak indeed".

When you consider north america has a very small cell phone market compared to the rest of the world, these patents are fairly meaningless.

Worse occurs - two models of phones - north american version with the offending functionality left out, and the world wide version that has all the bells and whistles.

 

[ChazUK]

Eric Schmidt sat on the Apple board throughout the iPhones development, while quietly ripping off all the ideas for Googles own product. That's the thing about original ideas, you can give them away for free, sure go ahead, but someone somewhere will be making money from them.

If true then that makes someone at Apple a complete idiot for letting him sit on the board considering it was public knowledge that Google acquired Android INC back in 2005.

 

[kobewankenobi]

Nokia and Kodak say hi...

hey i surely think that if apple did infringe patents of kodak or nokia, apple should pay
i am not fanboy
what is fair is fair
i surely hope that htc/google will pay if they actually stole what apple claims

 

[ChazUK]

When you consider north america has a very small cell phone market compared to the rest of the world, these patents are fairly meaningless.

Worse occurs - two models of phones - north american version with the offending functionality left out, and the world wide version that has all the bells and whistles.

I can't help but agree. Just look at Nokia's dominant position worldwide, despite a weak US marketshare.

 

[ChazUK]

hey i surely think that if apple did infringe patents of kodak , nokia should pay

Nokia should pay for Apple infringing on a Kodak patent?

 

[dgree03]

Google should just rip gmail, Gmaps, google search, and youtube from apple iphone/ipad... that will teach them a lesson!

Apple has more to lose in the pissing match than google or HTC does!