Google Working on Browser for iOS That Would Break Apple's App Store Rules

[bluecoast]

The reason this is a bad idea is that google is already working to undermine all other browsers and make Chrome the new Explorer, by getting IT teams to push chrome only support on business websites internally and now customer facing. So, instead of building to web standards, they are building to chrome’s proprietary features. The only reason Safari still exists is because Apple’s policy on iOS. Microsoft killed off all competition with explorer and then stopped meaningful development on the Mac once those alternatives were gone to make Windows more attractive. Google has proven they cannot be trusted in the same way. When they were the map provider for iPhone, they withheld features like turn by turn for years to boost their new competing product copy Android. We didn’t get turn by turn until Apple surprised them with Apple Maps. The reason safari was created in the first place was to ensure Apple users weren’t blocked from accessing the full internet by explorer and its seems to be happening again.

I'm going to be hopeful here and point to the recent debacle around Twitter which is - I pray:

- making people realise that having one company monopolise a field is good
- and open standards / non-profits are a way of stopping this

i.e. Mastodon.

As you say, we were here before with Microsoft and IE.

And Google and Apple should be wary of letting regulators decide their fates, as happened to Microsoft with IE and the DOJ.

Arguably, that sucked up a huge amount of their energy. You could even argue that it prevented them from seeing that they needed to act on mobile as they were spending a huge amount of time fighting that and less time on making sure that they could ship a good successor to XP (instead they shipped Vista) and then spent a huge amount of time on creating Windows 7 instead of being focussed on mobile.

You could even argue that Microsoft lost 10 or so years of them being a dominant force in tech because of the fallout from IE and the DOJ antitrust which only in the last few years, they are recovering from.

 

[JustSomebody12]

Chromium based browsers will utterly dominate

Chromium is open-source, as Microsoft shows.

 

[User 6502]

Ironically your wish for more competition will likely result in a lot less. Chromium based browsers will utterly dominate. And having one company able to dictate web standards is not a good idea.

And who’s fault is it if chromium based browser will dominate on iPhones as well? Safari is awful, it’s criminally behind in complying with many HTML5 features because apples wants you to download apps from the App Store, it doesn’t want you to use web apps.

 

[User 6502]

Why does Apple even have this "webkit-only" restriction?

Just one of many anticompetitive behaviours apple adopts. They don’t want you to use other browsers because they’re more feature rich and allow web apps that would bypass the App Store.

 

[User 6502]

This is about Apple's ability to monitor privacy, and I'm all for that. Google is in the business of collecting and selling my personal data and privacy. Apple makes money by selling me services and hardware. I prefer Apple's business model. I support their ability to build a walled garden. I freely choose to use it.

Nobody will force you to use chrome. You’ll be able to keep using Safari, or any other browser. Currently apple forces everybody to use a subpar browser.

 

[switz]

Simple answer. Do not buy Apple products if you do not like how they work. I hated the Windows nightmare and all things Microsoft created. The Microsoft office was the monopoly (and still is) and we had sub-par versions on Apple before the year 2000. Have used neither brand intentionally in over 20 years.

I buy into the entire Apple eco system as it just works for me with few (as compared to the other systems) security issues since 1990 when I started with IIci, IIfx systems and with SE30s. I have never trusted Google from day one since the Google founder stole all the base knowledge from Apple while on Apple's Board of Directors.

I do not miss the weekly Windows updates to fix last weeks updates etc and Windows along with most other Microsoft products have NEVER been truly secure.

Only one operating system was never compromised and that was VMS on the Digital Equipment VAX series of mini computers I used in the 70s. The military choose Windows because they seem to enjoy security breaking exploits that keep the minions busy playing whack a mole.

 

[mdriftmeyer]

I hope Apple gives people a choice: Turn on Side-loading and void your AppleCare Warranty. Use third party App-Stores and void all warranty guarantees by Apple due to third party intrusions that bring Malware, etc.

 

[BuffaloTF]

Why announce it? I’m sure everyone on here will care that you will not use Google Apps on your phone

While I typically agree with the sentiment, the other pages of this post are filled with people announcing things the other way. Why don't we have a huge multi-quote here asking the same of all of those?

 

[nvmls]

You're so far off with your evaluation of Safari, it's hard to read.

Right, I’m “off” but Chromium forks own more than 80% of the market, must be all devs wanting users to have their privacy exposed.

If you want to defend the echo chamber so be it, I’m sure you are pleased with Apple’s current software state, so I’ll happily remain “off”.

 

[TheMacDaddy1]

That falls on developers. If a product is dominating maybe there’s a reason. Same could be said about iPhones or literally anything else, don’t victim blame the consumer.

Agreed. Chrome gets a lot of hate but it is still my go to browser. It is faster and more reliable than anything else and I can still block ads….right now. If you look at stat counter or any other tracker site, nothing has changed much. If anything FireFox is dropping as Microsoft makes it harder to change the default on Windows 11.

 

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Agreed. Chrome gets a lot of hate but it is still my go to browser. It is faster and more reliable than anything else and I can still block ads….right now. If you look at stat counter or any other tracker site, nothing has changed much. If anything FireFox is dropping as Microsoft makes it harder to change the default on Windows 11.

I work with ERP and business automation software all day everyday and Safari is my goto browser for exactly this reason - it's very much faster than Chrome and doesn't require 32 GB of RAM to do that.

 

[TheMacDaddy1]

Everyone here is all "Yeah! It's about time! We need other options besides Safari/Webkit."

Does anyone actually care? Never once have I thought to myself: "Gee, I wish I could use a Chromium browser on here." Safari works just fine for everything I've ever needed it to and I suspect that's true for 99.9% of others as well.

Ummm no. Safari on the Mac is my last choice. It has problems with lots of web pages. It does not support profiles. It is just ugly and has zero customization like ALL other browsers. Extension support is just bad in comparison.

I own multiple Mac’s, iPhone, iPad, multiple Apple TV’s, Home Pods, watches as in more than one, Air Pods…Apple music family sub with Apple stream TV….but Safari is just bad.

I have also been burned by Apple Maps many times. Twice in 2022 when in cites I was visiting. Google Maps saved the day.

 

[TheMacDaddy1]

I work with ERP and business automation software all day everyday and Safari is my goto browser for exactly this reason - it's very much faster than Chrome and doesn't require 32 GB of RAM to do that.

I work in Azure and AWS all day. I need multiple profiles unless I want to constantly logout and login with multiple accounts. Having the ability to set colors/themes per profile makes it super easy to jump around.

If I turn on cross site tracking block on in Safari it breaks many of the admin consoles on both. Managing book marks is so clunky. Favicons disappear all the time in Safari.

I never have had a RAM issue with any browser but maybe it is because I never have more than 6 tabs open at one time. I also do not buy 8 gig Mac’s.

 

[Artemis70]

What needs to happen is for Apple to step up and make a better browser, they have all the money in the world & own the platform, yet they struggle to compete with 3rd party browsers which data-mine you to death. Blame consumers then?

I hate Chrome as much as the next guy, but Safari has been hot garbage for a while now. Extensions are trash & many acting like cash grabs, anemic ecosystem, no built-in adblocker, dev tools are a disgrace (outdated responsive mode, CSS properties disappear or get duplicated when live editing for years, freezes), UI glitches all over (specially compact view), they tried to "improve" the UX and ended up moving back to tabs because of how poorly implemented compact view was, etc, etc, etc. (not even mentioning websites not supporting it)

You are absolutely right that Apple has not stepped up. That shows exactly why competition is good. However, the same issues with site compatibility also happen with Firefox, even though we can't complain that Mozilla is not stepping up. So the issue that @jmh600cbr mentioned is because of web developers focussing on Chrome, sometimes using Chrome specific options. As a user, we're caught in the middle.

 

[Artemis70]

Been wondering for a while why Apple does not put in the effort and make Safari the equal of Chrome and Edge.

That is a good question, and they should. In my view there is another equal to Chrome and Edge. It's called Firefox. And Firefox receives the same treatment by web developers as Safari. Actually, web developers put more effort into Safari as they don't want to miss out on the business from iPhone/iPad users.

 

[tdar]

It should be noted that it has been reported that Apple is planning to drop this rule as part of ios17.

 

[n-evo]

You will then have to pray these third party browsers have the same security and energy efficiency on iOS devices.

Why do we need to pray for that? It’s not like Safari is going anywhere.

 

[webkit]

That is a good question, and they should. In my view there is another equal to Chrome and Edge. It's called Firefox. And Firefox receives the same treatment by web developers as Safari. Actually, web developers put more effort into Safari as they don't want to miss out on the business from iPhone/iPad users.

One reason web developers may put "more effort into Safari" than Firefox is because Safari has a much greater share of the browser market than Firefox.

Globally across all platforms (desktop, mobile, tablet), Firefox only has around a 3% share while Safari's share is over six times greater. In the U.S., Firefox has around 3.5% share while Safari’s is nearly ten times greater.

Given that Safari is only available on Apple devices, it manages to grab a fairly decent share of the browser market.

 

[Seffers]

That falls on developers. If a product is dominating maybe there’s a reason. Same could be said about iPhones or literally anything else, don’t victim blame the consumer.

Let me guess, when people start getting viruses on their phones from installing garbage willy nilly you’ll consider it “sl*t shaming” to say it’s their own fault? People like you are absurd.

 

[lazyrighteye]

This old argument. It has been played ad nauseam across these and other forums. Every viewpoint has some truth in it.

Just because an argument isn’t trending on Twitter, doesn’t make it any less true.

Google collects all it can and allows me to have semi-decent control over personal level information AFAIK
Apple collects all it can and allows me to have semi-decent control over personal level information I thought. That is now in doubt.

Every company doing business today collects data - that’s not newsworthy. What should be newsworthy, is what their doing with that collected data. Improving/differentiating one’s product offering is far different than being under contract with the Pentagon. Those two scenarios offer wildly differing sets of potential consequences. For some, that might matter. For others, it might not.

I use both and do the best I can to limit personal data collected.

👍 Sounds like you’re doing what works best for you - as you should. Carry on.

 

[deevey]

No major website is still using HTTP for serving up pages, the early 2000s are behind us. I work in IT and sometimes old servers/network gear I need to access have this issue, but that's far from a common problem for the average Safari user. I'm surprised to hear banking is a problem for you. I use a handful of banking websites such as Chase, Amex, Fidelity, etc and none of them see any issues in Safari.

Maybe its those http banking website links they get in emails

 

[Artemis70]

One reason web developers may put "more effort into Safari" than Firefox is because Safari has a much greater share of the browser market than Firefox.

Globally across all platforms (desktop, mobile, tablet), Firefox only has around a 3% share while Safari's share is over six times greater. In the U.S., Firefox has around 3.5% share while Safari’s is nearly ten times greater.

Given that Safari is only available on Apple devices, it manages to grab a fairly decent share of the browser market.

You are absolutely right. I originally responded to someone who was happy that he could open pages in Chrome. The problem I see is that all browsers not based on Chromium will become pretty useless as soon as WebKit is no longer required on iOS and iPadOS devices. Safari is the only reason that forces web developers to look further than Chromium based browsers.

 

[webkit]

You are absolutely right. I originally responded to someone who was happy that he could open pages in Chrome. The problem I see is that all browsers not based on Chromium will become pretty useless as soon as WebKit is no longer required on iOS and iPadOS devices. Safari is the only reason that forces web developers to look further than Chromium based browsers.

I think Mozilla/Firefox could be facing some challenging times in the coming years, not necessarily because of anything that may happen to Apple/iOS regarding browser engines but rather what may happen in the DOJ case against Google. Rulings regarding the legality of the default search agreements Google has with Apple, Mozilla, etc. could potentially take away a significant portion of Mozilla's income.

 

[dk001]

Are they going to pull a fortnight, where they complain to politicians and lawyers about being rejected from the App Store for “unfair rules?”

If it works why wouldn’t they?

 

[dk001]

Equal how? The WebKit project is very active, and Apple distributes a development copy of Safari called Safari Technology Preview that contains early support for emerging web technologies.

WebKit

Open Source Web Browser Engine

webkit.org

Safari is not outdated or non-standard simply because it doesn't contain every single feature that the Chromium team has chosen to implement early, often before they are stable.

Edge is based on Chromium, so it inherits said features, and are not the result of any effort by Microsoft engineers, so it gets no credit.

It has gotten better recently but it needs;
- Better and more extensions.
- Better security.
- Ability to use it outside of the Apple world.

If Safari could do this it could be a real player in the browser world.
Right now it only exists as it has a captive audience..