GPS not good enough for turn by turn??

[TonyHoyle]

Anyway, I think the problem is likely to be battery life rather than "the size of the antenna". My TomTom1 lasts about 2 hours unless it's plugged into my car's 12vDC socket, maintaining a constant lock on the satellite signal. The iPhone perhaps doesn't maintain a constant GPS fix.

GPS is a huge battery drain but it'll only be in use when you're using a GPS based app so shouldn't be a big issue. It's not like you'd be trying to navigate using an iphone on the side of a mountain somewhere.

I used to have my N95 uploading my location to Bliin, and if I walked around town with it it killed it from a full charge in under 2 hours.. I stopped doing that, of course

 

[tallyho]

GPS is a huge battery drain but it'll only be in use when you're using a GPS based app so shouldn't be a big issue. It's not like you'd be trying to navigate using an iphone on the side of a mountain somewhere.

Haha well I know a few of the guys who are in the Mountain Rescue in the Lake District and you'd be surprised...
In fact, if some of the muppets who they have to rescue did have iPhones it might actually help them.

 

[Badgerguy]

I think the fact that Apple aren't shouting about the device as being an in-car sat-nav device should tell us something - it's just not something that was high up on Apple's list of priorities for the device.

The GPS functionality is great for pedestrian navigation, location awareness etc. However for reliable car navigation the maps would need to be stored locally so that you can carry on navigating even if you drive through areas with limited or no coverage. Apple obviously decided that trying to stuff huge maps onto the device would take up too much room, and complicate device localisation.

I'm sure that someone else could investigate delivering this functionality -and they'll probably tell us whether the GPS device is sensitive enough for this use - in the meantime, I wouldn't lose too much sleep over a functionality that has never actually been advertisied for the iPhone.

--
BG

 

[tallyho]

Apple obviously decided that trying to stuff huge maps onto the device would take up too much room, and complicate device localisation.

Not huge - TomTom's UK map is ~100MB if I remember right. Certainly my TomTom only has 512MB (it's the UK one, with no SD slot, and can't quite fit the whole of Western Europe on it).

 

[ubersalad]

I think the fact that Apple aren't shouting about the device as being an in-car sat-nav device should tell us something - it's just not something that was high up on Apple's list of priorities for the device.

The GPS functionality is great for pedestrian navigation, location awareness etc. However for reliable car navigation the maps would need to be stored locally so that you can carry on navigating even if you drive through areas with limited or no coverage. Apple obviously decided that trying to stuff huge maps onto the device would take up too much room, and complicate device localisation.

I'm sure that someone else could investigate delivering this functionality -and they'll probably tell us whether the GPS device is sensitive enough for this use - in the meantime, I wouldn't lose too much sleep over a functionality that has never actually been advertisied for the iPhone.

--
BG

We're just looking for reasons to upgrade our phone...if iPhone 3G can be dubbed as in-car navigation device especially with the ability to have live traffic map, I have just saved hundreds of dollars...

Seriously, I am lying to myself that above scenario is indeed the case, so I have a valid reason to upgrade...

 

[frosse]

Not huge - TomtTom's UK map is ~100MB if I remember right. Certainly my TomTom only has 512MB (it's the UK one, with no SD slot, and can't quite fit the whole of Western Europe on it).

Yeah, I think that whole Europe is around 1,5 GB. AppStore limit is 2GB.

 

[VideoShooter]

GPS is a huge battery drain but it'll only be in use when you're using a GPS based app so shouldn't be a big issue. It's not like you'd be trying to navigate using an iphone on the side of a mountain somewhere.

I would. In fact I hope there's a GPS only setting.

 

[Ori]

The GPS functionality is great for pedestrian navigation, location awareness etc. However for reliable car navigation the maps would need to be stored locally so that you can carry on navigating even if you drive through areas with limited or no coverage. Apple obviously decided that trying to stuff huge maps onto the device would take up too much room, and complicate device localisation.



--
BG

Not true.
Telenav on the blackberry downloads the map as and when you need it. It doesn't store any maps locally. It works well and I used it as my car sat nav for a long time. I don't see why we can't have a similar app on the Iphone.

 

[DarrenG]

Not true.
Telenav on the blackberry downloads the map as and when you need it. It doesn't store any maps locally. It works well and I used it as my car sat nav for a long time. I don't see why we can't have a similar app on the Iphone.

Please no, server based mapping is not a solution I'd ever use. None of the solutions that use that are anywhere near as good as the best that have on-board mapping. Telenaav, BBMaps, Wayfiner et al, all ok in an emergency but that's about it.

 

[Ori]

Please no, server based mapping is not a solution I'd ever use. None of the solutions that use that are anywhere near as good as the best that have on-board mapping. Telenaav, BBMaps, Wayfiner et al, all ok in an emergency but that's about it.

Agreed, but mobile phone Sat Nav is exactly that!!
I just want turn by turn directions. If Googlemaps would do it then they would probably corner the market!

If someone actually did a proper sat nav software like Tom Tom on the Iphone then that would be the best, but that looks increasingly unlikely. Sigh.

 

[frosse]

I wish Google could update their satellite images for Maps. I dunno how well up to date they are around the world but here in sweden they're about 4 years old, which totally sucks. It would be nice to use GMAPS in hybrid mode. That's what makes GPS in GMaps cooler than a possible TomTom app.

And I really do hope that TomTom, or who ever makes an app, decides to atleast offer the option of downloading a map pack. What may help them decide to use offline maps for the iphone other than BB phones and Nokia's is because of the iphones space. Not every phone carries a disk space of 8 or 16GB.

 

[gnasher729]

It has been noted that TomTom has stopped development because Apple have said that no-one is allowed to make gps navigation software for the iphone at the moment.

That is not my understanding at all. Apple will most definitely not let any Dick, Tom and Harry create GPS navigation software for the iPhone, because creating that kind of software carries huge possible liabilities. It is a case where badly designed software could easily kill people, and neither a small software developer nor Apple would want to be responsible for that.

TomTom is not any Dick, Tom and Harry. They know how to do this, they have done it before, they have proven that they know how to cope with the legal risks, and if they want to create that software then they will get a very different answer from Apple then you or I would.

 

[peterja]

Agreed, but mobile phone Sat Nav is exactly that!!

Not if it runs Tomtom Navigator..

You could hope the comments about the antenna was just an excuse for not having the software. Earlier findings suggested it was a quality GPS chipset from broadcom.

 

[Roller]

There are lots of reports quoting people at TomTom saying that their s/w has been running on the iPhone. Of course, that doesn't mean that it'll be available at the app store on Friday, nor would TomTom sell it if it weren't at least as functional as comparable devices.

 

[Badgerguy]

Not true.
Telenav on the blackberry downloads the map as and when you need it. It doesn't store any maps locally. It works well and I used it as my car sat nav for a long time. I don't see why we can't have a similar app on the Iphone.

Not true? Isn't it? What if you drive out of coverage? Network coverage is very, very good of course, but for the best possible reliability you need to have maps stored locally - what happens if your network operator has a problem with the net that day? I have to just live without? Uh, no thanks - I travel allot and need it to work.

Not huge - TomTom's UK map is ~100MB if I remember right. Certainly my TomTom only has 512MB (it's the UK one, with no SD slot, and can't quite fit the whole of Western Europe on it).

Sure for the UK it's small enough - but that assumes Apple want to get involved in localizing maps - each iPhone doesn't need to go out with a street-level map of the whole world - just your country, at most your continent. Apple obviously didn't want to get involved in doing something that was designed for in-car navigation, otherwise they would have delivered localised maps - they have instead opted for online streaming maps, and are not talking about it as a car sat nav.

--
BG

 

[Kadman]

My take on the GPS with the iPhone is that it will be somewhere between a simple novelty or something that can help you limp along in a pinch. I use a Garmin Nuvi 760 and it's an incredible device. From the demos I've seen, the the iPhone GPS will not ever be a match for it (nor do I think Apple intends for it to be). I'd venture to guess that even a $99 "off brand" GPS would provide a better experience.

Maybe I'm wrong. Heck, I hope I am. It would be cool to simplify and not need a stand alone GPS, but somehow I don't think people will be selling their Garmins & Tom Toms after using the iPhone as a GPS.

 

[feelthefire]

The TomTom maps for US and Canada are about 1gb. If you're willing to give up storage space for it, great, but dedicated GPS units are way better than any phone's GPS chip. Heck, if the app is gonna cost a hundred bucks, you should just buy a tomtom one and be done with it.

 

[RRK]

No one on here has mentioned the possibility that Apple has made deals with the cell carriers to offer their versions of navigation software. For instance AT&T has its own nav system "AT&T Navigator."

 

[tallyho]

Sure for the UK it's small enough - but that assumes Apple want to get involved in localizing maps - each iPhone doesn't need to go out with a street-level map of the whole world - just your country, at most your continent.
BG

But isn't that exactly what the app store would be for? TomTom make a lot of money selling new and different maps to owners of TomTom hardware (and other gps enabled mobiles come to that). I'd be amazed if they don't do the same for the iPhone (and perhaps allow me to eBay my TomTomOne...)

 

[Loonytik]

My take on the GPS with the iPhone is that it will be somewhere between a simple novelty or something that can help you limp along in a pinch. I use a Garmin Nuvi 760 and it's an incredible device. From the demos I've seen, the the iPhone GPS will not ever be a match for it (nor do I think Apple intends for it to be). I'd venture to guess that even a $99 "off brand" GPS would provide a better experience.

Maybe I'm wrong. Heck, I hope I am. It would be cool to simplify and not need a stand alone GPS, but somehow I don't think people will be selling their Garmins & Tom Toms after using the iPhone as a GPS.

Exactly. The GPS is a novelty. I dont think anyone has put it better than this. Anyone who believes the iphone, even with the tom tom software will be as good as a stand alone GPS system is fooling themselves. It wont be.

You will most likely be able to use the iphone GPS as a backup device when you are with someone without a car GPS or you are on foot, but for turn by turn directions that get you there quickly and efficiently ill stick with my Garmin, thanks.

 

[frosse]

Not true? Isn't it? What if you drive out of coverage? Network coverage is very, very good of course, but for the best possible reliability you need to have maps stored locally - what happens if your network operator has a problem with the net that day? I have to just live without? Uh, no thanks - I travel allot and need it to work.



Sure for the UK it's small enough - but that assumes Apple want to get involved in localizing maps - each iPhone doesn't need to go out with a street-level map of the whole world - just your country, at most your continent. Apple obviously didn't want to get involved in doing something that was designed for in-car navigation, otherwise they would have delivered localised maps - they have instead opted for online streaming maps, and are not talking about it as a car sat nav.
--
BG

This is not Apples idea, but instead Googles. They're the ones who provide the maps through their server.

 

[greenmymac]

I am very excited to get my Iphone 3G on Friday...(maybe), but I am very concerned now about the GPS.
I used to have a blackberry with built in GPS and was able to get turn by turn directions by using telenav. According to the review the GPS isn't good enough for this..!!??!
So, What about the TomTom software that is supposed to be heading our way for it?

If it has GPS and can track you live why can't GPS turn by turn be used?

I am confused.

Who cares atleast there is GPS in it! all what your wanting can come in a form of a software update

 

[daveschroeder]

To repeat something I said in another thread, which bears repeating here:

The controversy is stemming from several issues:

1. Apple's SDK license prohibits the development of "turn-by-turn" navigation applications. At this time, it is not known the exact reasons; but some are speculating that this means you cannot develop turn-by-turn applications that use the Google Maps data, because of agreements that Google Maps almost certainly has with the sources of the map data, which themselves are licensed to turn-by-turn navigation providers. It could also be because of various agreements with wireless carriers, many of whom charge more for such services. It could also be other reasons. It could simply be preemptive. It could be because Apple has its own plans.

2. The fact that a reviewer, David Pogue, said "According to Apple, the iPhone’s G.P.S. antenna is much too small to emulate the turn-by-turn navigation of a G.P.S. unit for a vehicle, for example." Before anyone says, "Where did Apple say this?!?!" it was almost certainly directly told to him by his press handler at Apple. Do you think that they just toss iPhone 3Gs out to the very first reviewers and say, "Knock yourselves out?" No, they have press kits, and direct access to media relations people at Apple who will answer questions.

Note that the antenna issue with respect to turn-by-turn navigation use IN A VEHICLE could apply to nearly any handset. Inside a vehicle, it's pretty hard for telephone handsets with GPS to get as good a fix as dedicated devices with larger — or external — GPS antennas.

Turn-by-turn navigation for vehicle use is a LOT more complex than just telling you what the next turn is...it maps a complete route, remaps if an error or missed turn occurs, has provisions for one way streets, offramps, complex intersections, and other roadway features, usually is able to speak the instructions, and is in a completely different ballpark than simply showing where someone is on a map. Sure, applications could be made for the iPhone that do this. Right now, what the iPhone does is good for simple, accurate location finding, walking around outdoors, etc.

It remains to be seen whether in-car solutions or dedicated "hiking/geocaching" type solutions will be able to be developed.

So the bottom line is that we'll just have to wait and see.

 

[rxl125]

what's the point if it can't do turn by turn...

DUMB

 

[daveschroeder]

what's the point if it can't do turn by turn...

DUMB

Um, no one said it can't do turn-by-turn. Apple advertises "turn-by-turn" on its own site.

What was said by Apple to ONE REVIEWER is that the antenna is too small for IN VEHICLE turn-by-turn use. And you might do well to read my above post.