Graphic Design Teacher a MORON

[CanadaRAM]

I at no point have said that people should never use them

stay away from any font that is named "font bold", "font narrow", "font black" etc - style it yourself

OK OK, I had just hoped that there was some reasoning behind your advising the CompUser to go against 15 years of practice in computer based typography.

And there is, paradoxically, an instance where choosing the style is the best thing to do: That's when you are using a complex font family like Futura on the Mac and you know you are transferring the job to a Windows machine which is incapable of displaying all of the variations -- in that case Adobe recommends instead of choosing Futura Heavy, you choose Futura Medium and bold it, because Futura Heavy doesn't exist as an option on the Windows machine. This is an OS limitation however, and requires detaild knowledge of how the fonts map to each other.

Here's what Olav Kvern has to say
http://www.itcfonts.com/ulc/article.asp?nCo=AFMT&sec=ulc&issue=26.2.1&art=digwemust4
"If you’re ... using a Macintosh, select the name of the font you want from the type menu. If you want to use Helvetica Bold, choose “B Helvetica Bold.” Again, don’t use your desktop typesetting program’s type-style shortcuts."

 

[EricBrian]

That's tough.

Apart from the injustice of it all, welcome to the world of graphic design where a completed piece of artwork will be summarily dismissed by the client for any reason whatsoever forcing you to start again from scratch and meet the deadline.

It completely sucks but this happens in the real world all the time.

Not only this, but the client might also ask you to incorporate something which you feel ruins your creation/design/layout. When a client does that, it drives me crazy and I would like to quit. But, I don't. I bite the bullet and hope for better the next time around.

 

[AppleMatt]

Christ, you've both made your point over and over again??? How many posts ago did I put a little clarification statement up? Perhaps designers have an in-build superiority complex (or inferiority...if you need to repeat ad infinitum...interesting). It's actually laughable, how much time has been devoted to it. I clearly said opinion the second I was challenged and you've both gone off like I said Jesus never existed.

I at no point have said that people should never use them

Learn to read*, I _clearly_ told you that it was in relation to this project. Nice attempt at taking me out of context though. Smooth editing of you post also, unfortunately some of us have email notification switched on which includes a copy of the original. I don't care what he does with his project, whether he takes none of my advice of all of it. I just offered it up, but at the same time if someone takes what's said on an open forum as 'gospel' (BV's words not mine), more fool them...they deserve to fail in whatever they're doing. Apparently however offering advice here is redundant, because one small mistake will cost you dearly. As you have so much free time available to discuss and find references to back you up (I'm unsure if the irony was intentional), I invite you to tear the rest of my advice to him apart? It will be an excellent teaching exercise, I'm sure you'll agree.

You may be good designers but you're not exactly the best of people, I know which qualities I'd rather have. I wish you both success in your future projects - which you're unequivocally going to have.

AppleMatt
*This will also help you whiz through those typography bibles. I may just have increased your productivity 10-fold. Let me know.

 

[CanadaRAM]

O.M.G. STP fighting about fonts

hahah

NO!-- fonts are IMPORTANT!

AppleMatt - I apologise - i'm sitting here with a nasty cold and nothing better to do than argue.

 

[ATD]

That's tough.

Apart from the injustice of it all, welcome to the world of graphic design where a completed piece of artwork will be summarily dismissed by the client for any reason whatsoever forcing you to start again from scratch and meet the deadline.

It completely sucks but this happens in the real world all the time.

As much as I don't like revisions, I have to remind myself if the client picked the very first design we did without changes, 75% of us would be out of work.

 

[AppleMatt]

AppleMatt - I apologise - i'm sitting here with a nasty cold and nothing better to do than argue.

That's fine. I hope I didn't offend you too much. Interestingly enough I've been up all night writing a research presentation about using...a common cold virus(!) as a gene therapy vector for future cystic fibrosis treatment. Unfortunately at the moment there's too great an immune response - it's not likely to change and therefore I've drawn the, ahem, difficult conclusion that it's best to continue with a different virus. It's quite annoying because everyone has known this all along (there's like a gazillion studies), but for some reason we have to rehash it. I'd much rather discuss something new, but ho hum.

I have to confidently assert this in-front of many peers tomorrow morning (well...4.58am, in about 5 hours time), all looking to pick away at me

Bedtime.

AppleMatt

 

[ATD]

I would like to say that the only thing I learned from that teacher was from 2 PageMaker tutorials we were required to do. He teaches us nothing about good design techniques.

It would seem that your teacher doesn't know that much about design, if he did he would not be teaching PageMarker.


Good luck on your project!

 

[CompUser]

Yea, so I took the redesigned pamphlet in.

Didn't like it because it wasn't double sided printed so now I have to make so that it prints double sided which is the same as the brochure I made in the first place. I won't be that had to fix though.

He said "I don't know how to grade something that isn't double sided, I've never seen a brochure like this not double sided. It would be like printing a document and having pages upside down and mirror image. I never saw anything like that so I wouldn't know how to grade it"

 

[ATD]

Yea, so I took the redesigned pamphlet in.

Didn't like it because it wasn't double sided printed so now I have to make so that it prints double sided which is the same as the brochure I made in the first place. I won't be that had to fix though.

He said "I don't know how to grade something that isn't double sided, I've never seen a brochure like this not double sided. It would be like printing a document and having pages upside down and mirror image. I never saw anything like that so I wouldn't know how to grade it"

Wow, this guy either has a profound inability to visualize or he has it in for you. Do you do something to upset him? Has he even backed down on the accusation of plagiarism? I would only hope that a person like this will not put a dent into something you enjoy. Trust me, there are good teachers out there.

 

[CompUser]

Wow, this guy either has a profound inability to visualize or he has it in for you. Do you do something to upset him? Has he even backed down on the accusation of plagiarism? I would only hope that a person like this will not put a dent into something you enjoy. Trust me, there are good teachers out there.

He didn't accuse me of plagiarism, he just said it wasn't my work (pretty much the same thing but less sever).

This guy is just a paint. I printed out a copy of it, put it a rough layout of what it will be like when it is done and he still does not have the metal capacity to comprehend it.

I know this guy is a moron, and I probably will never want to take one of his classes again.

I enjoy working on computers but I don't really think I would ever really want to do it as a job.

 

[neildmitchell]

I enjoy working on computers but I don't really think I would ever really want to do it as a job.

Dont let this one drip spoil it for you. There are many great instructors out there, but you also have to be self motivated and interested to learn design and layout on your own. Instructors can only show you the way, its up to you to practice and learn. Immitate what inspires you, Take pieces of a design or designs you like, and redo them, making it your own.

But remember, there is more to design and layout then computers.
Usually, you start by hand, sketching out thumnails, move to hand drawn roughs, then once evrything has been gone over and approved, you then move to the computer, print out a draft copy for approval and QC, once that is approved, then off to the final print.

In page layouts, the key is Master Pages.

 

[CompUser]

Dont let this one drip spoil it for you. There are many great instructors out there, but you also have to be self motivated and interested to learn design and layout on your own. Instructors can only show you the way, its up to you to practice and learn.

But remember, there is more to design and layout then computers.
Usually, you start by hand, sketching out thumnails, move to hand drawn roughs, then once evrything has been gone over and approved, you then move to the computer, print out a draft copy for approval and QC, once that is approved, then off to the final print.

In page layouts, the key is Master Pages.

Thats what I've been using so my new change won't be to hard to preform.

 

[alangyssler]

Yea, so I took the redesigned pamphlet in.

Didn't like it because it wasn't double sided printed so now I have to make so that it prints double sided which is the same as the brochure I made in the first place. I won't be that had to fix though.

He said "I don't know how to grade something that isn't double sided, I've never seen a brochure like this not double sided. It would be like printing a document and having pages upside down and mirror image. I never saw anything like that so I wouldn't know how to grade it"

What a tool box. This guy seems to like to poo-poo just about everything put in front of him. Did he make you do a folding dummy, and everything? Do you know how to do the imposition? Are you expected to do the assembly of the press sheet, as if it were going to press? Just curious.

 

[alangyssler]

It would seem that your teacher doesn't know that much about design, if he did he would not be teaching PageMarker.


Good luck on your project!

Amen to that! I prefer InDesign, but will make due with Quark. PageMaker.... forget it. Far too clunky, IMHO. Plus, InDesign comes with the ability to PreFlight, package for output, and plenty of other goodies. I'm an Adobe fan and all, but PageMaker is just too outdated, and doesn't seem to play well with others.

 

[CompUser]

Amen to that! I prefer InDesign, but will make due with Quark. PageMaker.... forget it. Far too clunky, IMHO. Plus, InDesign comes with the ability to PreFlight, package for output, and plenty of other goodies. I'm an Adobe fan and all, but PageMaker is just too outdated, and doesn't seem to play well with others.

Yea I did it on inDesign on my PowerBook. It seems to have a lot more features and is easier to work with. According to my "teacher" the school has inDesign but "the boys" haven't installed it.

Yea, I did a proposal sheet, thumbnails, and a dummy and he approved it in the beginning (????).

 

[CompUser]

Well I brought in the revised and final work...


He loved it. He said it turned our really well and that I should submit it to the arts expo.

Strange but good.

 

[neildmitchell]

Well I brought in the revised and final work...


He loved it. He said it turned our really well and that I should submit it to the arts expo.

Strange but good.

So lets see it

 

[mikebatho]

Graphic designers are as**oles 90% of the time.

I'm one.

I've been trying to get out of design for the last few years. The people on the whole are dull beyond belief, and the work on the whole is the same, that's when it isn't being soul destroying or incredibly irritating.

I've been invited to a social evening at one of Manchester's trendiest nightspots in December, to mingle with other freelancers, and the prospect of sitting around talking about fonts all night fills me with horror. I shall be giving the evening a wide berth.

The job encourages the most tedious behaviour, too. Like you'll be sitting in a bar or resaurant, and you'll see the designers picking over the printed menus, checking font usage, spacing, bleed & trim etc....

For crying out loud, get a life. Most of the time now I just tell people I'm in recycling: A middle man between tree & bin, because most of the stuff designers work on is the most ignored rubbish that nobody ever even bothers to look at.

I probably got into design for the wrong reasons, as I started off as an artist/illustrator, and that's the way I'm heading back to now.

Mainly because I won't have to sit around listening to people boring me to tears about the latest Quark/InDesign upgrade....

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...................