Group FaceTime Still Partly Broken After Security Update, Apple Aware

[Marekul]

You forgot Turkey with audio recording of Khashoggi.

A bug is easier to fix than a baked in feature.

yeah you would sweat blood tears to hide and obfuscate the "fix"...
Like making it a 1GB update, mixing in some other bug fixes... moving around stuff

 

[Scooz]

It's obvious the IOS code base has gotten more complex and therefore software bugs are to be expected. It's not the bugs I look at, but the response to the bugs, and imo, Apple addresses issues these days with some fervor.


As I stated above, it's the response to the bugs, not the bugs themselves.


How the f/t bug came to be is less relevant than how it was addressed, imo. It's easy to say it should have been caught early on, but if that were the case for many of the issues that plagued windows in the past, Microsoft would have learned from it's mistakes and not have to patch Windows 10. You don't really know if Apple "just doesn't care" or a bug that slipped through what is probably some complex scenarios that was overlooked in testing. Overblowing the issue doesn't help either.


Apple, Microsoft, Samsung (sending your pictures to random people...comes to mind and batteries blowing up) don't need a wake-up call. Software development and bug remediation is always a developing process and hopefully these companies do adjust their processes as time goes on. But calling people out (if they are not part of the solution they are part of the problem) for differing opinions and making some assumptions on an anonymous internet board doesn't help either.

Well, if that‘s your point, I just took on the original poster‘s „I blame the twitter commenters“ comment and rephrased it. Same for the second cited comment, btw. Not my usual wording as it does not result in any improvements as you already pointed out.

For the quality approach, I guess we can discuss forever whether bugs just exist or not. For me reaction time is an important point, too, but something that‘s easy to achieve with not too much intellectual overhead.

Improving the prevention of bugs is something much more advanced and I want Apple to show more effort in that area. They were better at some point and they need to adopt a more disciplined approach for making new features and convenience/integration interfaces (which they finally provide) more secure. Release quality has to improve again, too. And the comparison with Microsoft does not help...

And yes, discussing that in a anonymous forum is important, as it shapes opinions and allows for an exchange on what parts of the problems were „normal“ and which stand out, and why. Feedback to Apple via stores, email, their forums will be clearer and come with better arguments, more mature, if you will. Including some points that will be less emotional and therefor result in a more constructive feedback.

After all that‘s why we‘re „wasting“ our time on exchanges, opinions and discussions a forum, right?

 

[I7guy]

...After all that‘s why we‘re „wasting“ our time on exchanges, opinions and discussions a forum, right?

Maybe sometime yes and maybe sometime no.

 

[ColdShadow]

One is a bug and the other a policy decision. You can decide, which one is which.


Yes, but you can't do them all simultaneously, just like facetime. You can initiate a facetime call from imessage or send a message from facetime. Knowing the company who makes facetime values your privacy. I cannot send files(except the same things that can be sent from facetime) from whatsapp, so you must have a special version.


Not true.


That is the plus, don't have to wrangle with any installation and can use facetime and imessage from any iphone signed into your apple id.


That's not my conclusion. YMMV.
[doublepost=1550529614][/doublepost]
No, the "monopoly" aspect was very important to the point. Didn't like windows, where would a company go. I suppose Mac, but Microsoft had the desktop and server market, so yes this point is essential to the point you are attempting to make. Strong financials can be indicative of product quality.

Installation takes like 5 seconds,even a monkey can do it,it’s not like you can get away with not installing any app from App store,it’s just another must have app you’ll need.
But whatever..you keep limiting yourself to barebones,basic functions of FaceTime if you prefer.

everyone (on iPhone) have FaceTimeI have it too,but WhatsApp is much more functional and again can be used for both android or iOS users.you simply can’t argue about this one.
By insisting on FaceTime,you are simply limiting yourself.

I honestly don’t remember the last time I used it.
and now with this huge security embarassment,I leave it off in settings and archived just like Apple Maps,Apple books etc.because just like these apps, there is a better alternative.

 

[I7guy]

Installation takes like 5 seconds,even a monkey can do it,it’s not like you can get away with not installing any app from App store,it’s just another must have app you’ll need.
But whatever..you keep limiting yourself to barebones,basic functions of FaceTime if you prefer.

everyone (on iPhone) have FaceTimeI have it too,but WhatsApp is much more functional and again can be used for both android or iOS users.you simply can’t argue about this one.
By insisting on FaceTime,you are simply limiting yourself.

I honestly don’t remember the last time I used it.
and now with this huge security embarassment,I leave it off in settings and archived just like Apple Maps,Apple books etc.because just like these apps, there is a better alternative.

I got different strokes for different folks. FaceTime is ubiquitous and Facebook owns WhatsApp. And that’s enough for me. FaceTime code had a bug and Facebook has been dishonest how your pii is used. Even if it weren’t the case about Facebook owning WhatsApp I see no advantage to it, in my world.

 

[Radon87000]

Many things it would seem, if not most.
[doublepost=1550520947][/doublepost]
Ah, yes, "destroyed"...

Good to hear that you made the decision that works better for you.

Yes its destroyed. I have a Note 9 with a virtual home button and a 7 Plus and the home button is instant on the Android.

 

[C DM]

Yes its destroyed. I have a Note 9 with a virtual home button and a 7 Plus and the home button is instant on the Android.

It's good that you've been able to find what works for you.

 

[Radon87000]

I got different strokes for different folks. FaceTime is ubiquitous and Facebook owns WhatsApp. And that’s enough for me. FaceTime code had a bug and Facebook has been dishonest how your pii is used. Even if it weren’t the case about Facebook owning WhatsApp I see no advantage to it, in my world.

Apple is just as "evil" as Facebook. Where is the evidence this Facetime bug wasn't intentional?Remember Apple ignored the family until they made it public.

 

[I7guy]

Apple is just as "evil" as Facebook. Where is the evidence this Facetime bug wasn't intentional?Remember Apple ignored the family until they made it public.

That family wasn’t the first to report the bug, maybe that’s why they were ignored.

Bugs, as you called it, by definition are not intentional. Ipso, facto.

If it’s your opinion Apple is just as “evil” as Facebook, you run with that. At least the iPhone isn’t sending random pictures to people like the galaxy.

 

[Radon87000]

That family wasn’t the first to report the bug, maybe that’s why they were ignored.

Apple credited the family for the bug which means they were the first to report it.

If it’s your opinion Apple is just as “evil” as Facebook, you run with that. At least the iPhone isn’t sending random pictures to people like the galaxy.

No it’s not an opinion. They were caught with Throttlegate which is what Tim Cook claims was increasing iPhone sales. At least Samsung doesn’t destroy their older devices to maintain shareholder expectations.

 

[I7guy]

Apple credited the family for the bug which means they were the first to report it.

Yes they gave credit to two people. The person that originally reported the bug and the family.

No it’s not an opinion. They were caught with Throttlegate which is what Tim Cook claims was increasing iPhone sales. At least Samsung doesn’t destroy their older devices to maintain shareholder expectations.

Yes, it’s your opinion based on your individual bias and interpretation of events.

Samsung doesn’t have to work to destroy shareholder expectations. Their batteries did it for them.

 

[C DM]

No it’s not an opinion. They were caught with Throttlegate which is what Tim Cook claims was increasing iPhone sales. At least Samsung doesn’t destroy their older devices to maintain shareholder expectations.

Doesn't seem like a claim like that was made. But we all know that.

 

[btimlake]

You really didn’t get the problem, did you?

A feature, enabled on most iOS devices, enabled a caller to spy on the users audio and when they denied the call enabled video instead. Easily defeated? The user, yes. The problem? Only by disabling Facetime altogether.

I blame people like you for playing down things to a degree that made Apple continue its ignorant security and quality approach for the last few years.
[doublepost=1550499898][/doublepost]

Hm, maybe they need more help with their HR. It seems you have skills they need.

I’m sure your easy-going attitude towards their technical problems is a plus.

You really didn’t get the problem, did you?

A feature, enabled on most iOS devices, enabled a caller to spy on the users audio and when they denied the call enabled video instead. Easily defeated? The user, yes. The problem? Only by disabling Facetime altogether.

I blame people like you for playing down things to a degree that made Apple continue its ignorant security and quality approach for the last few years.
[doublepost=1550499898][/doublepost]

Hm, maybe they need more help with their HR. It seems you have skills they need.

I’m sure your easy-going attitude towards their technical problems is a plus.

These sorts of personal attacks are uncalled for, though all too common on forums. But while I'm writing, I think we have different assessments of the likelihood that the vulnerability could give rise to someone actually being able to exploit it.

The vulnerability is a problem, no question, but to call it a "security flaw" puts it in a league with much more serious problems that Apple products are renowned for avoiding.

 

[uroshnor]

Installation takes like 5 seconds,even a monkey can do it,it’s not like you can get away with not installing any app from App store,it’s just another must have app you’ll need.
But whatever..you keep limiting yourself to barebones,basic functions of FaceTime if you prefer.

everyone (on iPhone) have FaceTimeI have it too,but WhatsApp is much more functional and again can be used for both android or iOS users.you simply can’t argue about this one.
By insisting on FaceTime,you are simply limiting yourself.

I honestly don’t remember the last time I used it.
and now with this huge security embarassment,I leave it off in settings and archived just like Apple Maps,Apple books etc.because just like these apps, there is a better alternative.

The viability of WhatsApp really comes down to the extent that you trust Facebook.

There is ample evidence that Facebook should not be trusted at all.

 

[Scooz]

These sorts of personal attacks are uncalled for, though all too common on forums.

Well, this was not intended to hurt you. Sting a bit, maybe and remind you that this was not something that could have been allowed to keep running.

It was my take on your original quote where you explicitely blamed everbody else but Apple and downplayed the issue to a huge amount, IMO:

That's the price people are paying for an overblown "security" flaw: a set of circumstances so rare they would be almost impossible to achieve deliberately and, once known, can easily be defeated. Now other people are paying the price by not being able to use a feature they rely on. I don't blame Apple for CYA, but I do blame the hew and cry and clutching of pearls by Twitter commenters and the tech press. Save the outrage for something important, or it becomes even more meaningless.

But while I'm writing, I think we have different assessments of the likelihood that the vulnerability could give rise to someone actually being able to exploit it.

Well, but is was exploited. Or better: used, when we look at the comfortable implementation.

The vulnerability is a problem, no question, but to call it a "security flaw" puts it in a league with much more serious problems that Apple products are renowned for avoiding.

Well, here they basically had their server commanding my phone to open an audio channel and the next bug did not even allow me to deny the calm but switched to video IMO, it can‘t get much worse. The next step would be an explicit App to spy on other iPhone users.

Do you have an example of what you‘d consider an actual problem?

 

[Scooz]

Maybe sometime yes and maybe sometime no.

Fitting answer to my stupid last line

 

[Radon87000]

Doesn't seem like a claim like that was made. But we all know that.

He said one of the reasons for declining sales was the fact that many customers replaced batteries thereby restoring peak performance to their phones. Conversely this means, Apple’s throttle was increasing sales for them prior to the scandal.

 

[C DM]

He said one of the reasons for declining sales was the fact that many customers replaced batteries thereby restoring peak performance to their phones. Conversely this means, Apple’s throttle was increasing sales for them prior to the scandal.

So, it seems that we agree that a claim like that wasn't made. Good to hear, and good to move back onto the topic of this discussion.

 

[Radon87000]

So, it seems that we agree that a claim like that wasn't made. Good to hear, and good to move back onto the topic of this discussion.

So when Cook says battery replacements decreased sales he didn’t imply battery replacements were increasing sales prior to the scandal?