They're sacrificing legacy functionality for better and future-proof functionality. Like they've always done.
What happens when future-proof becomes legacy?
They're sacrificing legacy functionality for better and future-proof functionality. Like they've always done.
Apple never said the cylinder was a complete failure—those are your words. As usual, black or white. In your mind, it can’t possibly be true that the cylinder is fine (and even loved!) by some users, while failing to meet the requirements of others such as yourself.It is a fact that the trashcan has been a complete failure. Even Apple has said that. But maybe you know more than Apple. People prefer the trashcan over the tower? Yeah really...
Because Pro users are desperately looking at old updated towers, the prices for used Towers are hot.
It is not just upgradability. RAM, SSD and many other components are soldered into the Logic board, making the computer more prone to failure and way much more expensive to repair. Furthermore, some can only be repaired by Apple only.
In addition, what is much worse, by soldering the SSD, they are forcing all users to pay obscene prices for Apple SSD, that are way more expensive than the top brands in the market.
So it does not look that soldering SSD it is a good design for users. But yes, Apple will give you all sort of excuses, since Apple is clearly the only one benefited by ripping off customers with more expensive repairs, more expensive SSD prices and since computers will die faster users will need to buy a new computers.
Furthermore, Pro users, want upgradeability, especially since they are upgrading video cards, RAM, and swapping extra internal drives, that was so easy on the Towers.
See above. If trashcan was remotely good, Apple would never claim that they made a mistake. And they did.
So your comment that trashcans are remotely good is pointless if market says otherwise.
What happens when future-proof becomes legacy?![]()
The idea is that this takes a long, long time.What happens when future-proof becomes legacy?![]()
Simply not true.Gruber is RARELY critical of Apple.
Apple never said the cylinder was a complete failure—those are your words. As usual, black or white. In your mind, it can’t possibly be true that the cylinder is fine (and even loved!) by some users, while failing to meet the requirements of others such as yourself.
The primary issue, which they freely admit if you read the April 2017 interview, was designing the cylinder for three heat-producing devices, 1CPU / 2 GPU. The physical design locked that in, and they weren’t able to change from a 1 CPU/2 (smaller, less powerful) GPU config to a 1 CPU/1 (larger, more powerful) GPU config that turned out to be what the GPU-heavy customers could best use. Another mistake was not realizing they needed to make a change for too long. One might guess sales were about what was expected; if it hadn’t been selling, they would have known they had a problem in 2014 and not 2016/2017.
Again, many (most?) Pro users don’t swap internal drives, upgrade video cards or even upgrade RAM. Some do, like you apparently, but in my experience it is very common—especially in the business/enterprise segment—to buy the preferred config from Apple, use it for as many years as it meets their needs, and then replace it.
Your experience is not the experience of most other users.
1) Yes, the cylinder is loved, just not by you. It meets some users needs but not others. Just saying, “I’m right, everyone hates the 2013 Mac Pro” is simply your black and white, closed-minded opinion.The cylinder was NEVER loved.
IT seems that you are the only person that is trying to defend the indefensible. Even you are saying that the physical design was bad. Obviously, there is no more blind that the person that does not want to see.
I wonder why most PRO, were dearly holding to their towers and NOT upgrading. Even up to today, people rather buy old upgraded towers or hackintoshes rather than buy the old trashcan.
Your experience is not the experience of most other users. All the PRO users I know, they all upgrade something, either RAM, internal HD, etc. Furthermore, one of the reasons is because Apple charge obscene expensive prices for both RAM and internal HD, which is still happening today.
3) The anecdotal, limited experience of you and your friends is not representative of all users, and especially not business/enterprise users. They willingly pay Apple’s prices for the machine BTO with the RAM and SSD capacity they need.
Even with my work-issued windows tablet laptop
Comparing a "tablet laptop" with what is ostensibly supposed to be a professional grade notebook seems to me to be grossly out of bounds. It would be more appropriate to compare a "tablet laptop" with, perhaps, a MacBook Air. A MacBook Pro needs to be properly compared to other professional grade notebooks (i.e. top-tier ThinkPads or Dells).
I can tell who listens to his podcasts and who doesn’t. Gruber takes Apple to task often. Almost every episode of his podcast especially if the Mac keyboard is involved. For example, he recently argued that the pay to play model for game apps is unethical. Don’t think Apple PR would green light those talking points.
It seems relevant with that we are comparing - the usefulness afforded by USB-C. Plus I only have my HP elite to go with.
Being a consultant, i would say 95% of my clients never switched to trashcan. Furthermore, Pro users are looking for old upgraded towers rather than upgrade to the trashcan.
Again, you narrow experience does not represent what most of the people actually want and need.
And if most of the Pro users are not willing to upgrade that should tell you how badly designed the computer was.
You can say whatever you want, but actual users/clients use facts speak for themselves.
If only Apple will release the number of units sold, it will show how ridiculous your comments are. But they are not...
Your personal experience is not relevant, since it’s not representative of the population of all 2013 Mac Pro owners. Yet for some reason you think it is.
Absolutely, I don’t have any problem with the idea that the 2013 doesn’t work for a significant chunk of the pro market. Or that Apple freely admitted they screwed up with the decision to go with a dual GPU architecture, which boxed them into a corner when they (finally!) realized they needed “one big powerful GPU” instead of two less-powerful GPUs. That corner being, there’s no way the physical design of that cylinder could accommodate a 250W GPU in the balanced triangle thermal design. So, without a doubt—the 2013 nMP is simply not a viable solution for those who need a single, powerful GPU.except there are thousands like him, considering Apple apologized for the mac pro and telegraphed in advance roughly when a new modular one is coming, those are basically unprecedented for the company, it hints to that being the overall feeling of the pro community.
I personally switched several pros that came to me to Hackintoshes (normally something I don't like to do because of the legalities)
prior to that, I was pushing a lot of mac pro 4,1's I was refurbishing, a few clients have moved to MacBooks with eGPUs but many are just jumping to PCs.
more anecdotal evidence, but that's all either side has to go off of, that and what Apple has said.
Huh. Weird that all these other companies seem to be selling new wifi mesh systems. I guess they didn't get that memo about the demand not being there anymoreMost people use the router supplied by their internet provider. I think they all probably include WiFi capability now, which wasn’t the case 20 years ago when Apple debuted AirPort. The demand is just not there anymore.
You were responding to someone who doesn't want to carry a briefcase full of adapters and dongles around to use his professional grade notebook computer, not the "usefulness" of USB-C.
Huh. Weird that all these other companies seem to be selling new wifi mesh systems. I guess they didn't get that memo about the demand not being there anymore![]()
It has nothing to do with mesh. When Apple releases AirPort 20 years ago, the ISP didn’t supply a WiFi access point, they supplied a modem, not even a router. Apple wanted to offer a capability that their users would find valuable.Huh. Weird that all these other companies seem to be selling new wifi mesh systems. I guess they didn't get that memo about the demand not being there anymore![]()
all of those products they would be better off bringing back.But really I don’t think it’s all that different from other products that Apple has discontinued, such as the 17” MacBook Pro or iPhone SE. Sure, there are some people that love it, but not enough to make it worthwhile for Apple to continue with (apparently)![]()
Your personal experience is not relevant, since it’s not representative of the population of all 2013 Mac Pro owners. Yet for some reason you think it is.
You do know there’s a whole, big world out there—beyond your friends and clients. It’s hard for me to believe you can’t understand you don’t speak for everyone... that not everyone thinks the same as you. But here we are! Oh well.
With your same criteria, your opinions are NOT relevant either. Who are you to decide what is relevant and what is NOT??
I know there a whole world, and most of it agree, look online and most of the reviews of the new Macbooks PRO are not good to say the least and that is in addition to all the direct personal experience that corroborate that the Macbook pros are a complete failure.
The difference between you and PickUrPoison is that you claim to speak for everyone, which can't be right, while he doesn't.
I didn’t say your opinion isn’t relevant. I said your personal experience that 95% of your clients stayed on the cMP isn’t relevant because it’s not representative of the population of all users. It’s no more relevant than someone claiming that 95% of their clients prefer the nMP. In both cases it could be true, in their own, limited experience. But neither is correctly describing the actual opinions of all Mac Pro users.With your same criteria, your opinions are NOT relevant either. Who are you to decide what is relevant and what is NOT??
No idea why you’re talking about the MacBook Pro. We’ve been discussing the 6,1.I know there a whole world, and most of it agree, look online and most of the reviews of the new Macbooks PRO are not good to say the least and that is in addition to all the direct personal experience that corroborate that the Macbook pros are a complete failure.
Oh, 95% of your clients hate the MacBook Pro, do they? Very interesting, but not at all relevant since we’ve been discussing the 6,1 nMP.I never said 95% of all users.
I spoke based on my client's experiences and YES, 95% of my clients hated the Macbook Pro.
And yes he is claiming that he is above everybody...which in itself is quite disqualifying.
Is Google listening and recording everything you do worth the second voice?
No idea why you’re talking about the MacBook Pro. We’ve been discussing the 6,1.
Oh, 95% of your clients hate the MacBook Pro, do they? Very interesting, but not at all relevant since we’ve been discussing the 6,1 nMP.
But then again, a couple of posts ago, you were claiming that 95% of your clients “never switched to trashcan”. Apparently you lost track of your made up statistics.