Gurman: Apple Planning M2 Pro Mac Mini, New Apple TV With A14 Chip, Revamped HomePod With S8 Chip, and More

[Lounge vibes 05]

Have you been shopping? I have. 8K TVs are in stock. Yes, not as numerous as 4K but that's how this always works. Go shopping. See for yourself. Else, go virtual shopping: Amazon has a 8K box you can tick to see PAGES of 8K TVs for sale (not all cost a fortune... several big screen 8Ks cost LESS THAN a certain 27" Monitor recently released). Best Buy has an 8K ticker too. Many 8K TVs are prominently displayed at Best Buy. Etc.

By the time AppleTV 8K comes out- which we BOTH seem to be guessing is next year to late next year at the earliest, that will be post ANOTHER CES with another round of 8K models announced and releasing throughout the year.

But to that last part, I agree: Apple loses nothing by waiting... except the cash from those who would buy updated AppleTVs if they were rolled out before "next few years." With no 8K TV in my home today, I'd buy an 8K AppleTV if it was released today. Why if I have no 8K TV yet? Faster processing, smoother operations, updated tech, etc.

Would I buy a 4K AppleTV today? No, I already have that level of tech in hand.

0.15% of TVs sold in 2021 were 8K.
A very very different story than 2017 with 4K.
Also “but The iPhone can record it” isn’t a reason, The iPhone could record 1080P for seven months before the ATV got it.
The iPhone 6S could record 4K, and it was introduced at the same event as the Apple TV fourth generation. It took an extra two years before that thing got 4K.
And again, the amount of actual 8K Content in the wild is far, far, far smaller than 4K was in 2017.
None of the major streaming services in the US support 8K.
None of The major film studios release their films in 8K.
If Apple did release an 8K Apple TV today, it would pretty much be useless for several years to come, and wouldn’t give them an excuse to release an updated generation in five years or so when 8K is more widespread and supported.
It would be a total bizarre move coming from Apple, the company who usually is the last to jump onto new standards.

 

[Realityck]

It is comparable if actually already own the TV app and buying an Apple TV is even more. The notion that there is an extremely low degree of overlap here is laughable when the they almost entirely share the same name. The primary function is basically the same.

ARC/eARC is basically also useful for the rest of the apps on the TV you just paid for and if not trying to do everything with solely Apple's Siri Remote. For the user base who 'stretch the budget' to buy the better TV, then using what you paid for does have high utility.

There is a market for the AppleTV. But if trying to make it into a larger addressable market cranking up the cost is a dubious way to expand the available market. AppleTV already struggles to do price/value justification with the narrowly targeted feature set you are trying to showboat here. An even higher cost will likely be even more problematical.

Yes the misguided Apple marketing labeling Apple TV + service, Apple TV 4K hardware, and Apple TV app to confuse consumers.
I don't think anyone is really struggling with budgets to buy 4K TVs they really are very cheap now compared to few years ago. I find the separate interfaces and generally slowness of bundled TV apps to be PITA at times.

As mentioned the possibility of morphing an Apple TV 4K into a Smart sound bar (aka fancy HomePod) w/FaceTime Camera has some waiting to see if it sees the light of day.

 

[iOScity]

The new Apple TV 📺 will be really exciting… I hope.

 

[Realityck]

The new Apple TV 📺 will be really exciting… I hope.

Here's a thought
If Apple sold a 32" or 40" 4K TV utilizing Apple TV interface with good specs it would have the marketplace to itself. Everyone else wants to sell 48" and above 4K TVs that don't work for a lot of space restrictive situations.

 

[ClarenceBeeks]

If they want to sell more ATVs they just need to build one that supports full audio pass through!

 

[theorist9]

ye they need to release a new mac mini with m1 ultra or m1 max

They already have a minimally-sized desktop box for the Max and Ultra—the Studio. The fact that the Studio is that size indicates a Mini case would be too small to support the power supply, connectivity, and thermals needed for the Max and Ultra.

 

[EvilEngineer]

If they want to sell more ATVs they just need to build one that supports full audio pass through!

This!

There's plenty of scope of charging more for an ATV if you're targeting the Home Theatre and gaming markets.

Stick a M1 in there and call it "ATV-Pro" but even an A14 version could probably be made to sell for more.

Bung in some extra RAM and storage for the gamers, video processing/upscaling features plus bitstream audio output for the Home Theatre crowd together with a big dose of full fat HDMI 2.1 for both camps.

$170/$200 list price for the current ATV-4K is silly money. Drop the A12 version down to $99, possibly repackaged into a dongle and I reckon they could sell a Pro version for $250.

There's probably also people that would pay extra for the puck form factor just to get an ethernet port if the base ATV became a wireless dongle.

A single USB-C port would also be good on an ATV-Pro but that will never happen!

Any new ATV should support AV1 decoding, even if it's software only, if it's going to be "future proofed" for the next 3-5 years.

 

[krakenrelease]

I can’t see much need for an update to the tv until Apple goes all-in in making a full home entertainment system. It’s nearly there with the HomePod, but there still isn’t a proper surround sound system. Add a sound bar and subwoofer and the sales for HomePods/HomePod minis would go up significantly

A sound bar is not a proper surround sound system either.

 

[EdT]

Apple has supposedly been targeting "gamers" for ten years, with nothing to show for it.

The "traditional" gamer market is toxic along multiple dimensions, but the ones most relevant to Apple are that
- they're cheap, and
- they hate Apple as part of their identity.

The best Apple can do is target the "casual gamer" market; but this market appears to be a mirage, at least in the context of aTV. They're primarily playing what boils down to disguised slot machines, just don't require very much CPU/GPU, and work fine on a phone.

Most of the PC gamers I know aren't cheap, they just hate Apple OS and Apple's marketing decisions. They don't like Metal as a graphics engine and they side with NVidea in any fight between the two companies. Unless Apple does something spectacular with both graphics and game design, and I don't mean just a little better but obvious leagues better than anything you can get for a PC machine I don't think it matters to most die hard computer gamers what Apple says or does. Im not sure it would matter if Apple did put out a fantastic game with drop dead graphics, gamers aren't going to believe them. And they aren't going to buy in because of just one or two games.

 

[Heat_Fan89]

Most of the PC gamers I know aren't cheap, they just hate Apple OS and Apple's marketing decisions. They don't like Metal as a graphics engine and they side with NVidea in any fight between the two companies. Unless Apple does something spectacular with both graphics and game design, and I don't mean just a little better but obvious leagues better than anything you can get for a PC machine I don't think it matters to most die hard computer gamers what Apple says or does. Im not sure it would matter if Apple did put out a fantastic game with drop dead graphics, gamers aren't going to believe them. And they aren't going to buy in because of just one or two games.

I agree that PC gamers aren’t cheap but they don’t flock to Apple and never will. It’s because the typical PC gamer likes to build their own rigs. They prefer to choose the best components. Price per performance ratio, is very important to a PC gamer which Apple can’t compete and really doesn’t want to. They also want easy repair accessibility and an upgrade path for the future. Customization,overclocking and BIOS tweaking are a must. They also typically chase ridiculous framerates sometimes in the 240FPS and cutting edge graphics. Apple offers none of the above to a PC gamer.

 

[EvilEngineer]

Gamers aren't cheap, just look at the price of graphics cards!

But even for the casual/"good enough" end of the market $299 gets you a Xbox Series S with triple-A gaming at 1080p (can be upscaled if needed) with acceptable framerates and 500GB of storage.

$200 for a 64GB ATV-4K is something of a joke by comparison.

There's no way Apple are interested in selling the hardware at break-even or a loss and making the money on software/games. They want "industry leading" (aka insane) margins on the hardware AND the 30% store commission.

It is what it is and no one's forcing you to buy, but it's called the Apple Tax for a reason.

 

[jav6454]

Gamers aren't cheap, just look at the price of graphics cards!

But even for the casual/"good enough" end of the market $299 gets you a Xbox Series S with triple-A gaming at 1080p (can be upscaled if needed) with acceptable framerates and 500GB of storage.

$200 for a 64GB ATV-4K is something of a joke by comparison.

There's no way Apple are interested in selling the hardware at break-even or a loss and making the money on software/games. They want "industry leading" (aka insane) margins on the hardware AND the 30% store commission.

It is what it is and no one's forcing you to buy, but it's called the Apple Tax for a reason.

Considering a good gaming oriented computer can cost $1000 easily... agreed. Unless you want a potato gaming computer.

 

[dogstar]

Most of the PC gamers I know aren't cheap, they just hate Apple OS and Apple's marketing decisions. They don't like Metal as a graphics engine and they side with NVidea in any fight between the two companies. Unless Apple does something spectacular with both graphics and game design, and I don't mean just a little better but obvious leagues better than anything you can get for a PC machine I don't think it matters to most die hard computer gamers what Apple says or does. Im not sure it would matter if Apple did put out a fantastic game with drop dead graphics, gamers aren't going to believe them. And they aren't going to buy in because of just one or two games.

If they really want any part of the VR market, they better figure out gaming fast! People aren’t gonna wanna sit around and chat with each other, they’re gonna wanna play FortNite VR.

 

[theorist9]

I agree that PC gamers aren’t cheap but they don’t flock to Apple and never will. It’s because the typical PC gamer likes to build their own rigs. They prefer to choose the best components. Price per performance ratio, is very important to a PC gamer which Apple can’t compete and really doesn’t want to. They also want easy repair accessibility and an upgrade path for the future. Customization,overclocking and BIOS tweaking are a must. They also typically chase ridiculous framerates sometimes in the 240FPS and cutting edge graphics. Apple offers none of the above to a PC gamer.

1) I think here you're referring to the hardcore enthusiasts. Most PC gamers probably aren't in that category. According to Steam's May 2022 hardware survey (https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/videocard/), the most common GPU is a GTX 1060.

2) Apple isn't looking to convert the hardcore enthusiasts. They're looking at the much larger market of more casual AAA gamers—not the ones who buy special-purpose gaming computers, but rather those who buy a PC for general use, but at the same time would like to also use it for games. Right now, the essentially complete absence of native AAA games for AS makes a Mac a deal-breaker for those people. Thus Apple is trying to eventually have enough of a library for those who want to buy a general-purpose computer, like to do some gaming, and are considering a Mac.

And it's not an all-or-nothing thing, where you either shift everyone in that category to Mac or you don't. It's more about moving the needle more towards MacOS for some fraction of these casual gamers—and also about increasing customer satisfaction for MacOS users who would like to do AAA gaming on their Macs.

 

[MajorFubar]

They already have a minimally-sized desktop box for the Max and Ultra—the Studio. The fact that the Studio is that size indicates a Mini case would be too small to support the power supply, connectivity, and thermals needed for the Max and Ultra.

Ultra maybe but not the Max. Don't forget they stuffed the Max in a 14" laptop.

 

[theorist9]

Ultra maybe but not the Max. Don't forget they stuffed the Max in a 14" laptop.

That's a good point. The Mini has 30% more volume than the 14" MBP, and only 6% less volume than the 16" MBP. But, even with that, I can't see how or why Apple would offer a Max Mini, given they already have a Max Studio.

 

[EdT]

I agree that PC gamers aren’t cheap but they don’t flock to Apple and never will. It’s because the typical PC gamer likes to build their own rigs. They prefer to choose the best components. Price per performance ratio, is very important to a PC gamer which Apple can’t compete and really doesn’t want to. They also want easy repair accessibility and an upgrade path for the future. Customization,overclocking and BIOS tweaking are a must. They also typically chase ridiculous framerates sometimes in the 240FPS and cutting edge graphics. Apple offers none of the above to a PC gamer.

I agree that a significant part of many PC gamers enjoyment comes from speccing and physically building their PC themselves, something that hasn’t been possible for most Apple users in a very long time, if it ever really was possible. You could argue that the iMac Pro you could customize to a larger extent than most standard Apple computers but you are still more limited on what components you can use compared to a PC system.

 

[EdT]

If they really want any part of the VR market, they better figure out gaming fast! People aren’t gonna wanna sit around and chat with each other, they’re gonna wanna play FortNite VR.

I can’t explain Apple’s philosophy concerning gaming. I don’t think that it’s been high on their priority list for whatever reason. If I had a plausible theory with some verified facts I’d lay out a case, but all I have is years of verbal commitments from Apple followed by no real improvement in gaming performance or availability on their OS and hardware.

Until very recently it hasn’t mattered much to me personally. I live in an area that until the last year or so has had horrible internet and cable availability. I couldn’t play most of the popular online games if I wanted to. I could try but I usually was dead before my screen updated after entering a game. And my problem was my connection speed so having an iMac wasn’t my biggest problem, I would have had just as poor of an experience on a custom gamer PC, at least as far as action games.

 

[Juuro]

That's a good point. The Mini has 30% more volume than the 14" MBP, and only 6% less volume than the 16" MBP. But, even with that, I can't see how or why Apple would offer a Max Mini, given they already have a Max Studio.

Yeah, that wouldn't make sense. But I would probably buy one if it is as silent as the MacBook Pros. 🙂

Did Gurman give an answer to the Post Game question about the Mac Studio: "Q: Do you anticipate an update to the Mac Studio?" I would be up for a more quiet Mac Studio with an M2/3 Max.

 

[Heat_Fan89]

I can’t explain Apple’s philosophy concerning gaming. I don’t think that it’s been high on their priority list for whatever reason. If I had a plausible theory with some verified facts I’d lay out a case, but all I have is years of verbal commitments from Apple followed by no real improvement in gaming performance or availability on their OS and hardware.

I think their strategy makes good sense. They decided to go after the casual gamer and embrace mobile gaming. The Apple TV is just an extension of the iPad and iPhone. Getting into the PC or Console space requires a ton of money, well into the billions and heavy marketing along with a strong commitment. Microsoft over the past 22 yrs have poured billions into the XBOX brand and they are still #2 behind Sony, globally. Mind you, it's now a successful brand but it required deep pockets on the part of Microsoft with a long term vision. Apple has deep pockets but do they have the commitment for the long haul?

Also Console gaming has eclipsed PC gaming by a wide margin where games are optimized first for the Consoles, then ported to the PC. It used to be the other way around.

 

[Heat_Fan89]

1) I think here you're referring to the hardcore enthusiasts. Most PC gamers probably aren't in that category. According to Steam's May 2022 hardware survey (https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/videocard/), the most common GPU is a GTX 1060.

2) Apple isn't looking to convert the hardcore enthusiasts. They're looking at the much larger market of more casual AAA gamers—not the ones who buy special-purpose gaming computers, but rather those who buy a PC for general use, but at the same time would like to also use it for games. Right now, the essentially complete absence of native AAA games for AS makes a Mac a deal-breaker for those people. Thus Apple is trying to eventually have enough of a library for those who want to buy a general-purpose computer, like to do some gaming, and are considering a Mac.

And it's not an all-or-nothing thing, where you either shift everyone in that category to Mac or you don't. It's more about moving the needle more towards MacOS for some fraction of these casual gamers—and also about increasing customer satisfaction for MacOS users who would like to do AAA gaming on their Macs.

Those are all good points but you and I forgot one thing. PC's are no longer where the majority of gamers gravitate too. For the last 10-15 yrs consoles have leapfrogged PC gaming by a considerable margin both in popularity and marketshare. So much so that PC games are rarely found in stores. They have been relegated to Steam, Epic and other digital storefronts. It's even tougher to compete against the XBOX Series X or PS5 which can produce high quality 4K visuals with smooth framerates for under $499. Most games today are optimized for the Consoles then are ported to the PC. It used to be the other way around. Both the PS5 and XBOX Series X easily surpasses performance of a GTX 1060 all for less than $500.

 

[Macative]

0.15% of TVs sold in 2021 were 8K.
A very very different story than 2017 with 4K.
Also “but The iPhone can record it” isn’t a reason, The iPhone could record 1080P for seven months before the ATV got it.
The iPhone 6S could record 4K, and it was introduced at the same event as the Apple TV fourth generation. It took an extra two years before that thing got 4K.
And again, the amount of actual 8K Content in the wild is far, far, far smaller than 4K was in 2017.
None of the major streaming services in the US support 8K.
None of The major film studios release their films in 8K.
If Apple did release an 8K Apple TV today, it would pretty much be useless for several years to come, and wouldn’t give them an excuse to release an updated generation in five years or so when 8K is more widespread and supported.
It would be a total bizarre move coming from Apple, the company who usually is the last to jump onto new standards.

There aren't even any plans to move content distribution to 8K. 4K is still barely catching up.

 

[Macative]

I can’t see much need for an update to the tv until Apple goes all-in in making a full home entertainment system. It’s nearly there with the HomePod, but there still isn’t a proper surround sound system. Add a sound bar and subwoofer and the sales for HomePods/HomePod minis would go up significantly

First, they would have make a Sound Bar that is also a Home Pod, but is not an Apple TV? Or is it an Apple TV and a HomePod and Sound Bar? Would that even work properly using a single HDMI connection?

Then they need to produce a subwoofer, which couldn't have any other purpose than just being a subwoofer.

Then somehow the package of Sound Bar, Subwoofer, and 2 HomePods needs to be either A) better, or B) cheaper than Sonos. Otherwise it doesn't need to exist in the first place.

I don't see Apple doing ANY of this.

 

[DanteHicks79]

The M2 is not the cause of the slow down, Apple is. Rather, Apple not using the two NAND chips on their boards.

Sure, so then if Apple uses a single NAND in the M2 Mini....

 

[EdT]

I think their strategy makes good sense. They decided to go after the casual gamer and embrace mobile gaming. The Apple TV is just an extension of the iPad and iPhone. Getting into the PC or Console space requires a ton of money, well into the billions and heavy marketing along with a strong commitment. Microsoft over the past 22 yrs have poured billions into the XBOX brand and they are still #2 behind Sony, globally. Mind you, it's now a successful brand but it required deep pockets on the part of Microsoft with a long term vision. Apple has deep pockets but do they have the commitment for the long haul?

Also Console gaming has eclipsed PC gaming by a wide margin where games are optimized first for the Consoles, then ported to the PC. It used to be the other way around.

You won’t get much argument from me that even PC gaming is becoming a niche market. I do think that properly done PC games are better because the computer is better but it’s also very expensive, and given a choice between spending $500-800 dollars for an X-Box or PlayStation and $2000 for a low end gaming PC more people will chose the cheaper option.