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like the 2013 Mac Pro...

That was down to Apple not specifying sufficient cooling (as one of the major sales points was it would operate silently on your desk). So the existing cooling had enough problems keeping the original CPU and GPU options sufficiently cool, to say nothing of the hotter CPUs and GPUs Intel and AMD released subsequently.

Or the iMac Pro

To be fair, it leveraged a fair bit of kit and production capacity from the base iMac 5K. And it did not help that Intel did not release an upgrade Xeon CPU option until Apple was already committed to move the Mac to Apple Silicon so there was only really one cycle available to it.
 
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I think the Mac Pro was that way more because that's how Intel PCs are, rather than Apple considering any of those things important. Since none of that is a part of any of the ASi Macs, I don't really expect them to go out of their way to incorporate things they probably consider outdated. I would expect storage will be just because it will probably be a case that can fit SSDs, but I wouldn't be surprised if that is the only thing they incorporate into the design.
I don’t know about that - Apple’s history there sends mixed messages. They never had to make an expandable Mac Pro, and for a long time they didn’t. Which kinda suggests they don’t particularly like the idea, but saw some reason to do it anyway. <shrugs>

I suspect you may be right though. I’m no expert, but I’d guess if the M2 had the hardware to connect to external expansion slots we’d have heard about it when people examined it and did xrays etc, so presumably it doesn’t currently, and I very much doubt they’ll do a specific bespoke design for the tiny Mac Pro market.
 
I don’t know about that - Apple’s history there sends mixed messages. They never had to make an expandable Mac Pro, and for a long time they didn’t. Which kinda suggests they don’t particularly like the idea, but saw some reason to do it anyway. <shrugs>

That reason was given at the 2017 "mea culpa" event - their most-serious professional customers told them the 2013 model did not work for them and if Apple did not offer them something similar to the 2006-2012 model, they would have no choice but to leave macOS for Windows and Linux.
 
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That reason was given at the 2017 "mea culpa" event - their most-serious professional customers told them the 2013 model did not work for them and if Apple did not offer them something similar to the 2006-2012 model, they would have no choice but to leave macOS for Windows and Linux.
They did already, at least a huge number that need a real Mac Pro is now using either Windows or Linux, as I've been saying, my bet is that apple will phase out Mac Pro, is too expensive to justify, now days you can get an amazing desktop PC with either intel or AMD that smokes current Mac Pro at a fraction of its price.
 
They did already, at least a huge number that need a real Mac Pro is now using either Windows or Linux, as I've been saying, my bet is that apple will phase out Mac Pro, is too expensive to justify, now days you can get an amazing desktop PC with either intel or AMD that smokes current Mac Pro at a fraction of its price.

That doesn't help you if your workflow is based around Final Cut Pro or Logic Pro. :) And enough of them stayed with macOS and professional macOS applications for Apple to justify making a new Mac Pro to run them at maximum capability.

Let us not forget that the majority of people and companies who bought 2019 Mac Pros have revenue streams that paid for them within months. Yes, some people bought it for bragging rights or were still rocking 2006-2012 Mac Pros and plan to use their 2019 models into the 2030s. But I am confident those folks are in the single-digit percentages of owners.

Apple did spend a lot of R&D to give those people and companies not only a new Mac Pro in 2019, but also a truly pro level iMac in 2017 because they appear to want to continue to support that customer base even though one can run macOS professional applications really well on a Mac Studio or MacBook Pro.

It is true that Apple is not beholden to supporting a product market just because they did - witness wireless routers and for a time, home speakers and external displays - so I do agree with you that Apple will not continue the Mac Pro if the model makes no financial sense to them.

I expect that the rumors that the "2023" Mac Pro will just be the 2019 chassis with an M2 Ultra instead of a Xeon is a repeat of the 2005 Mac Pro Developer Transition Kit (which used the existing PowerPC Mac Pro chassis with an Intel CPU instead of a G5). But it could also be a sign that Apple is not sure if the model will prove worthy of keeping and not wanting to spend a lot of money developing a custom Apple Silicon Mac Pro case just yet.
 
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I expect that the rumors that the "2023" Mac Pro will just be the 2019 chassis with an M2 Ultra instead of a Xeon is a repeat of the 2005 Mac Pro Developer Transition Kit (which used the existing PowerPC Mac Pro chassis with an Intel CPU instead of a G5). But it could also be a sign that Apple is not sure if the model will prove worthy of keeping and not wanting to spend a lot of money developing a custom Apple Silicon Mac Pro case just yet.
That's a good theory on where the dumb M2 Ultra rumors may have come from, if they are actually more than just something Gurman pulled out of his ass. Although I'm not sure it makes complete sense that Apple would need release a transitionary developer machine in this case... mainly the reason developers would need this is to get PCIe cards working with ASi, except they can already do that with the Sonnet external PCIe enclosures. But certainly for internal use or select developers that really need it for some reason, I could imagine it existing.

Either way, I expect Apple still has a lot of work left to do to make a new machine worthy of being called the Mac Pro, so I'm really not expecting to see one yet if we get one at all.
 
That doesn't help you if your workflow is based around Final Cut Pro or Logic Pro. :) And enough of them stayed with macOS and professional macOS applications for Apple to justify making a new Mac Pro to run them at maximum capability.

Let us not forget that the majority of people and companies who bought 2019 Mac Pros have revenue streams that paid for them within months. Yes, some people bought it for bragging rights or were still rocking 2006-2012 Mac Pros and plan to use their 2019 models into the 2030s. But I am confident those folks are in the single-digit percentages of owners.

Apple did spend a lot of R&D to give those people and companies not only a new Mac Pro in 2019, but also a truly pro level iMac in 2017 because they appear to want to continue to support that customer base even though one can run macOS professional applications really well on a Mac Studio or MacBook Pro.

It is true that Apple is not beholden to supporting a product market just because they did - witness wireless routers and for a time, home speakers and external displays - so I do agree with you that Apple will not continue the Mac Pro if the model makes no financial sense to them.

I expect that the rumors that the "2023" Mac Pro will just be the 2019 chassis with an M2 Ultra instead of a Xeon is a repeat of the 2005 Mac Pro Developer Transition Kit (which used the existing PowerPC Mac Pro chassis with an Intel CPU instead of a G5). But it could also be a sign that Apple is not sure if the model will prove worthy of keeping and not wanting to spend a lot of money developing a custom Apple Silicon Mac Pro case just yet.

That transition Mac inside a Power PC case, was later on replaced by an iMac, since then the Mac Pro is synonymous of $4K+ pricing.

The days of "affordable" Mac Pros are long gone.
 
I would not put too much weight into the drop in Mac sales. The entire PC industry took a beating and while yes, Apple took more of a beating, Apple also saw stronger sales the previous span of quarters than the rest of the industry's OEMs. So Apple was able to better meet the surge in demand than the PC OEMs (Apple was not as constrained by parts shortages, for example) and therefore they have sated said demand fully whereas PC OEMs still have some trailing demand they can fill.

The significant majority (over 80%) of Mac sales are portables so it is not surprising that Apple desktop models are on longer refresh cycles than the portables are. Hence the iMac and (likely) Mac Studio skipping the M2 generation of SoCs (and if Mac Pro had shipped with an "M1 Extreme" as planned, it likely would have skipped M2, as well). Mac mini was refreshed with M2 because Apple saw demand for a "pro" model with a more powerful SoC option and more expandability and M2 Pro was ready so it was easier to just release it with M2 instead of M1. But I would not at all be surprised if Mac mini skips M3 (at least the "pro" model).

So Mac Studio still has an important place in the line-up and will continue to be upgraded going forward, IMO, even once Mac Pro arrives to anchor the top-end of the line.



As Apple has noted in the past, Mac mini is in many ways a "catch-all" product that fits the market niches no other Apple desktop can. It's dimensions are important for many applications (data centers, HTPCs, etc.) and making it significantly larger to accommodate Max and Ultra class SoCs and (OEM) expandable storage modules would impact those markets. It would also raise the base price of the unit (Apple will charge more for a platform with more optional capability), which would impact it's desirability for niches where the current base model (which actually went down in price) is sufficient to task.

So Apple and its customers, IMO, are better served with the mini and the Studio existing.





I think if Apple was serious about updating the Intel Mac Pro, they would have done so last year when Intel announced the W-3300 Ice Lake series of Xeons. We did have rumors to that effect at the time and the CPUs did appear in the Xcode 13 beta.
I disagree with your analogy on a number of counts. With regards all PC sales falling its true, but Apple's fall was more unexpected and greater than any of the others and pointing to its previous sales is going backwards, and we already see substantial discounting of some Apple devices, and indeed with the M3 expected to be even more power efficient, then the massive heat sink in the studio might not be necessary and that is in the main why its so much larger than the Mac mini. If they had just the one range, calling it whatever the want, i.e. Mac mini, Mac Studio, gives them so much cheaper production run, but with the ability to have multiple configurations allowing customers the choice of the base range to the pro range.
 
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That reason was given at the 2017 "mea culpa" event - their most-serious professional customers told them the 2013 model did not work for them and if Apple did not offer them something similar to the 2006-2012 model, they would have no choice but to leave macOS for Windows and Linux.
Exactly - they didn't want to do it but they did it to please a vocal minority of customers. It'll be interesting to see if they still value pleasing those people so much that they make a modular ARM Mac.
 
The days of "affordable" Mac Pros are long gone.

IMO, that is because the rest of the Mac desktop line has become significantly more powerful than back in the early 2000s so you no longer need to buy a Mac Pro if you want to do "serious" work.


I disagree with your analogy on a number of counts. With regards all PC sales falling its true, but Apple's fall was more unexpected and greater than any of the others and pointing to its previous sales is going backwards, and we already see substantial discounting of some Apple devices, and indeed with the M3 expected to be even more power efficient, then the massive heat sink in the studio might not be necessary and that is in the main why its so much larger than the Mac mini. If they had just the one range, calling it whatever the want, i.e. Mac mini, Mac Studio, gives them so much cheaper production run, but with the ability to have multiple configurations allowing customers the choice of the base range to the pro range.

Third-party retailers always offer discounts on Macs to generate sales. And Amazon, for example, only applies those discounts to a percentage of their current stock, not the entire stock (as proven by when the sale price ends, you can still buy the model for immediate delivery at the regular price), so they do not seem to be offering discounts because they are sitting on massive stocks of unsold wares, but instead as a way to entice folks to make impulse purchases ( almost worked for me twice ;) ).

And the Mac Studio doesn't need the heatsink it has with M1. My guess is Apple wanted to "future proof" the design for future generations of SoCs that will run at higher clock speeds and consequently use more more power and generate more heat.

In the end, I do not believe Mac is in any real trouble and the current product line is wide and deep enough to meet customer demands. As such, I remain unconcerned with current Mac sales trends and believe they are nothing more than the usual cyclical nature of Mac sales.
 
According to Apple, the Mac Studio is "modular".
Not laughing at you, I'm laughing at what Apple says. It is not, in any way, shape, or form, modular. I see where they are trying to come from on it, but no, you have to compare them to other computer manufacturers and the PC part is modular in a lot of PC's, and anything you plug in to it is an accessory (keyboard, mouse, external drive, monitor(s)), not a module.
 
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