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macOS wasn’t designed for a touch device. There needs to be a balance between the transition from keyboard-docked to handheld that isn’t jarring. It’s a problem specific to iPad and I don’t think that simply slapping macOS on the iPad is an elegant solution.
Yeah, historically that's been one of the issues, along with relative resources used (CPU/RAM/storage) and especially going back to the iPhone launch days with pretty much everything touch(virtual keyboard is still keyboard input, so not 100% but most), something like IOS made a lot of sense, with the iPad coming not much later.

At this point in time, however, enough things have been 'cross-ported' and at it's core, I suspect a lot of macOS internals were still used as the basis for IOS/iPadOS. Meanwhile we can run iPad and IOS apps on macOS now, so it's not 'all done' but it's significantly less work compared to initial iPhone/iPad/IOS launch.

In reality, there's no need from the forced 'run macOS if a keyboard is connected' bit. Touch just becomes another input layer, just like for example, I don't need to select 'make my trackpad OR my mouse active' or 'disable my trackpad whenever I connect my mouse, or when I connect my external keyboard, or display, etc.

Once touch input is completely solid on macOS they could do something like a simple control panel toggle to switch across UI and even 'behavioral' styles (iPadOS or MacOS) without too much effort, and if someone wanted to they could for example, script or have native options for docked, undocked, whatever, and there's no need for it to be 'forced.' There's additional code, but should not much added overall compute required, as switching UI/behaviors is effectively a 'run these code paths and not these' vs 'all the time running both.'

Also, even when I’m using the keyboard, I’ll mix touch and trackpad use. That’s usability I’ll defend.




I prefer owning both. They both excel in their own respect and a merged product wouldn’t necessarily suit me better.

Yeah, there's no reason for forced modes if they do a bit of optimization (e.g. MBA can still thermally throttle and has more thermal mass to help in passive cooling) and perhaps downclock a bit on the iPad side of things.

There shouldn't be anything truly 'forcing' one or the other. It's entirely possible to see some models (e.g. mini, smaller iPads) continue running IOS only, and Pro or another tier, 'Ultra' to be consistent with Apple's chip naming anyways to be running macOS..or the option for 'macOS UI and behaviors' anyways.

It would open up a bunch of options for others without negatively impacting anyone that wants 'an iPad to be an iPad and a Mac a Mac' or whatever...if done reasonably.

An interesting thing may come out of such a change on the revenue side. The immediate thinking would say - would negatively impact MacBook sales. It might, but it may not affect overall revenue or even increase it.

I literally never use the trackpad on my MBPs except when mobile as it's on a stand with screen open next to my primary display, and I'm also not convinced it's better for RSI-type issues vs my trackman marble clone. However, if they enabled pencil on trackpad - for the first time ever, I'd be buying a Magic Trackpad and another pencil.

If I didn't need to include portability on my primary work system (MBP, long history of 15"s, then 2019 Intel 16", now MBP 14), I'd either shift back to the more expensive 16", or quite possibly move 'up' to a Studio Ultra, all of which is net additional $$ to Apple. I might well also consider, once the iPad 'Ultra' is more useful to me beyond consumption and basic email/docs, a more frequent upgrade path on my iPads, as I would see actual benefit vs my 2018 IPP 12.9" that gives zero reasons for upgrading due to iPadOS capability limitations for what I do.
 
There shouldn't be anything truly 'forcing' one or the other. It's entirely possible to see some models (e.g. mini, smaller iPads) continue running IOS only, and Pro or another tier, 'Ultra' to be consistent with Apple's chip naming anyways to be running macOS..or the option for 'macOS UI and behaviors' anyways.

It would open up a bunch of options for others without negatively impacting anyone that wants 'an iPad to be an iPad and a Mac a Mac' or whatever...if done reasonably.
Basically there will be data and apps. Interact with them through whatever is available on your device:
-Mouse and keyboard
-Touch
-Spatial
-Siri
 
the front facing camera. for video conferencing
Ahh, I was thinking about the back facing one. And yeah, it has to be in portrait mode for the camera to be in the middle, and if it's on a magic keyboard, it's not in portrait mode. I agree, that's not a very good design!! But the iPad is kind of screwed that way, as the camera is going to be in the wrong position for portrait mode if you put it where you want, plus the pencil hardware.

You'd have to put 2 cameras in it and I don't see apple doing that.

My disconnect was I don't do video conferencing with my IPP, so I didn't think that way.
 
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Ahh, I was thinking about the back facing one. And yeah, it has to be in portrait mode for the camera to be in the middle, and if it's on a magic keyboard, it's not in portrait mode. I agree, that's not a very good design!! But the iPad is kind of screwed that way, as the camera is going to be in the wrong position for portrait mode if you put it where you want, plus the pencil hardware.

You'd have to put 2 cameras in it and I don't see apple doing that.

My disconnect was I don't do video conferencing with my IPP, so I didn't think that way.
With the exception of the iPad 9 and iPad Mini, Apple has been positioning iPads as landscape first devices for a while now. The Mini even got landscape stereo speakers, and apple changed the display controller so jelly scrolling would be in portrait instead of landscape. Almost all of Apple’s cases prioritize landscape over portrait. I predict the next generation of iPads will have a landscape camera with split magnets to allow a new Pencil-3 to stay above the camera.
 
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Your use of the term “real work” illustrates the point I was making. “Real work” according to whom? Is an artist drawing with an Apple Pencil in Procreate not doing “real work”? Or how about the musician creating tracks in Logic Pro for iPad?
I’m not saying this is you, but many PC centric people think of “real work” as spreadsheets, coding and such. Or perhaps even video editing, while dismissing artistic tasks as mere frivolities.

Lest we forget, pilots, real estate showrooms and writers, etc. do “real work” on iPad which can be done without necessarily adding an external keyboard, and it suits them just fine.

Real life is not an Apple promo video.
and this is why iPad criticism is so frequently hard to take seriously.
because of goofball out-of-touchpositions like this.
Totally ignores the fact that millions of people use the iPad professionally every day, millions of people enjoy the iPad every day, and millions of people will choose to only use the iPad every day.
And a majority of those people use the iPad because it’s *not* just a laptop with a keyboard that doesn’t come by default.
The iPad is still exactly what it was always supposed to be, far more capable than a smartphone, but more friendly, intimate and simple than a MacBook.
Of course iPadOS has plenty of room for improvement, but to pretend that the only people using it professionally are from Apple promo videos is Wild.
There are more iPads out in use right now than Macs.
There are more people who know how to use iPads than Macs.
 
Of course iPadOS has plenty of room for improvement, but to pretend that the only people using it professionally are from Apple promo videos is Wild.
There are more iPads out in use right now than Macs.
There are more people who know how to use iPads than Macs.

Apple's promo videos pretty much round up all the professional uses of iPads. That's all I was saying.
I also have a handful of (elderly) family members, who only have iPads and no computers and they are enjoying the simplified computer experience.

There is no denying that iPads cannot be used (to great benefits) in a professional setting, this is not the point here. The point is, that adding accessories and "laptop features" is a dead end, because these features require a "laptop OS". Apple has been trying for years and we got what... Stage Manager, which is cumbersome to use, because you always forget the complex gestures. Ultra expensive add on keyboard with trackpad?

The range of iPad is a secondary device to a laptop for 99% of users, this is the argument. And no amount of accessories or iPadOS gimmicks are gonna change that. Moving into the primary device territory requiers a different (more complex) OS.
 
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Yeah, historically that's been one of the issues, along with relative resources used (CPU/RAM/storage) and especially going back to the iPhone launch days with pretty much everything touch(virtual keyboard is still keyboard input, so not 100% but most), something like IOS made a lot of sense, with the iPad coming not much later.
time and technology moves on as well.

the Sun Solaris ZFS file system, and the main server for the ISP i used to work at ran on hardware that was less powerful than the iphone 4.

Tech has caught up a bit, resource consumption is less of an issue. The only major difference between macos and ios from an application usability standpoint as far as i’m concerned is the background termination. the m1 ipads can use swap now so that’s one more barrier gone…
 
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and perhaps pigs fly. I don't mean to be mean to you, its a valid question but I'm afraid the answer with apple is... no way in hell will they.
Sure? Except for the fact they did exactly this with every Magic Keyboard in the past. I was happily using a newly designed keyboard on my 2018 iPad up until recently. Not to mention they expanded the keyboard lineup for non pro iPads to even the regular iPad. So? Thinking they would trip over their own feet to sell you a keyboard that cost $350-400 even if you’re not upgrading your iPad
 
Sure? Except for the fact they did exactly this with every Magic Keyboard in the past. I was happily using a newly designed keyboard on my 2018 iPad up until recently. Not to mention they expanded the keyboard lineup for non pro iPads to even the regular iPad. So? Thinking they would trip over their own feet to sell you a keyboard that cost $350-400 even if you’re not upgrading your iPad

well the iPad Pro 2018, 2020, 2021, and 2022 and the iPad Air and iPad (latest generations) all have the same dimensions and physical design... so yes the Magic Keyboard works with all of them. Based on these rumors it seems the 2024 iPad Pro will change the physical dimensions and look of the iPad Pro and that to me will be the breaking point. If they keep them the same dimensions then sure, I could see an updated Magic Keyboard being backward compatible but that seems unlikely.
 
I would have used the iPad Pro more if there was an ESC button. That was a lot to compromise and remapping the ~/` button to esc didnt do it for me.
I was considering buying the Magic Keyboard to use with my iPad Pro, instead of buying a Macbook Air (I don't do any coding or tasks that would require a real laptop tbh), but no ESC key, wtf..........especially at that price point


I think I'm gonna get a cheap Logitech BT keyboard instead and maybe buy a Macbook Air (I have an old PC laptop but it's on its last legs and the battery is shot lol)

But tbh I already tried a friend's BT keyboard with my iPad Pro and I can do 95% of what I do with laptops (for MY personal use case)
 
time and technology moves on as well.

the Sun Solaris ZFS file system, and the main server for the ISPi used to work at ran on hardware that was less powerful than the iphone 4.

Tech has caught up a bit, resource consumption is less of an issue. The only major difference between macos and ios from an application usability standpoint as far as i’m concerned is the background termination. the m1 ipads can use swap now so that’s one more barrier gone…
*sniff* I still have a Sun ‘Pizza box’ server and an E250 laying around somewhere. Truly makes me sad although their pride and arrogance IMO played no small part.
 
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The sad thing about the keyboard is simply the price. The manufacturing cost seems to have no bearing on the retail price, much like the infamous Mac Pro wheels.
Yeah, i’m really struggling to spend $500 aussie for a keyboard for a device that will be replaced in 3-5 years (and next time around i’m likely looking at a 12.9” ipad instead, so very little chance the keyboard will be useful for the next ipad). Hence i went for the logitech option.
 
I was considering buying the Magic Keyboard to use with my iPad Pro, instead of buying a Macbook Air (I don't do any coding or tasks that would require a real laptop tbh), but no ESC key, wtf..........especially at that price point


I think I'm gonna get a cheap Logitech BT keyboard instead and maybe buy a Macbook Air (I have an old PC laptop but it's on its last legs and the battery is shot lol)

But tbh I already tried a friend's BT keyboard with my iPad Pro and I can do 95% of what I do with laptops (for MY personal use case)
I used both iPad Magic Keyboard and regular Apple (Bluetooth) Magic Keyboard. Apple Bluetooth keyboard is thin, can be charged by iPad and has full functional Apple keyboard. I also didn’t use much the trackpad in iPad Magic Keyboard (it feels more natural to touch the screen directly). I would say, the experience of both are similar (each has its own pros & cons, but nothing terrible).
 
The sad thing about the keyboard is simply the price. The manufacturing cost seems to have no bearing on the retail price, much like the infamous Mac Pro wheels.

They rarely ever have any correlation. Cost is how much goes into making it, price is a reflection of how much the market will bear.
 
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Apple allowed that three years ago and developer use of that feature hasn’t exactly been high.
That’s because it is developer’s choice. During the beta any iOS iPadOS app could be run on a Mac. It wasn’t until the 4th or 5th beta that they instituted only allowing apps downloaded from the App Store be allowed to run on macOS. And they also gave the developer the ability to allow or disallow app delivery to Mac.

Many developers do allow their apps to run. Most do not, eirher because their apps don’t make sense on a laptop, their interface is to difficult to translate to a Mac without modification, or (more likely) they have a Mac app for sale as well and don’t want anyone to not buy it too.

But what I was proposing would be full macOS running only springboard ui when not docked (all iOS apps work). When docked allow user to decide to stay with springboard when docked (all apps work) or switch to full Mac ui. When in “Mac mode” Apple could enable iOS on Mac (today’s Mac with only allowed apps runnable), run springboard in a window (all iOS apps work), or both. They even already have springboard in a window installable on Mac today. It’s part of the Xcode Simulator.
 
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That’s because it is developer’s choice. During the beta any iOS iPadOS app could be run on a Mac. It wasn’t until the 4th or 5th beta that they instituted only allowing apps downloaded from the App Store be allowed to run on macOS. And they also gave the developer the ability to allow or disallow app delivery to Mac.

Many developers do allow their apps to run. Most do not, eirher because their apps don’t make sense on a laptop, their interface is to difficult to translate to a Mac without modification, or (more likely) they have a Mac app for sale as well and don’t want anyone to not buy it too.

But what I was proposing would be full macOS running only springboard ui when not docked (all iOS apps work). When docked allow user to decide to stay with springboard when docked (all apps work) or switch to full Mac ui. When in “Mac mode” Apple could enable iOS on Mac (today’s Mac with only allowed apps runnable), run springboard in a window (all iOS apps work), or both. They even already have springboard in a window installable on Mac today. It’s part of the Xcode Simulator.
This isn't going to magically make developers allow their apps on MacOS. The real reason why adoption of that feature has been low is that porting and testing an app on MacOS costs money; any issues would get them negative reviews. So unless people are willing to pay for Mac usage, there is no real incentive for developers to do it.
 
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