Hackintosh opinion

[300D]

Interestingly, Apple included two Apple stick on labels in the box though.

That is false information. A sticker does not constitute branding. If thats the case then throw a Bentley sticker on your Kia and suddenly you've got a genuine Bentley? Yeah, that makes a LOT of sense.

If you believe in the legality of the EULA then you can shrink proof yourself by buying a faulty old PowerMac G4 and build a hackintosh into the case. It will be genuinely Apple labeled/branded

More false information. Again, throw a Kia engine in your Mercedes and its still powered by a Kia no matter how you wish otherwise.

You would make an extremely poor lawyer.

Psystar got nailed on Copyright Infringement, as they were making a profit (or attempting to) from what they were doing, unlike an individual doing it for their own personal use.

That is also false information. They were making multiple copies from a single OS DVD.

Copyright /= EULA being challenged head-on in a court system.

By losers who can't make things on their own so they resort to theft of other people's work.

why Apple filed for Copyright Infringement in the first place.

Also incorrect. They filed simply because somebody was making a profit of their work. If you made something and somebody stole it, made copies and sold it as their own device, wouldn't you be a little ticked off?

Your methodology should be adequate to satisfy the EULA's language

Not even remotely.

 

[Spanky Deluxe]

I never said a sticker constitutes branding. A sticker constitutes labelling however, which is all that is required for Leopard's EULA. Snow Leopard's EULA requires branding, however. Sure, throw a Kia engine in a Mercedes and it's still powered by a Kia - however, it is still branded as a Mercedes.

If you want a car example then the Qvick Mini Cooper S3 springs to mind. Under Belgium's Endurance Championship rules, teams were allowed to replace the engines with any other engine from the same manufacturer. Since the car's official manufacturer was "Mini" and not "BMW" even though the car was built by BMW, they had to root around in the engine bay until they found one small BMW logo. That small logo was enough though.

I don't imagine you'd change your mind though since you've made it pretty obvious that you are incapable of doing so.

 

[codymac]

Oooh, no, no, no then. I HIGHLY suggest if you are building a rig for a recording environment that you do NOT make it a hackintosh. Reliability is pretty important when a band is paying you by the hour.

Done correctly and following the guide the OP mentioned, it's dead nuts reliable - mine has been every bit as reliable as my Macs.

 

[300D]

I never said a sticker constitutes branding.

Thats clearly what you insinuated.

Since the car's official manufacturer was "Mini"

False. Mini is a sub-brand of BMW, like Buick is to GM or Mercury is to Ford.

since I've made it pretty obvious that I am incapable of doing so

You certainly have.

 

[Spanky Deluxe]

Thats clearly what you insinuated.


False. Mini is a sub-brand of BMW, like Buick is to GM or Mercury is to Ford.


You certainly have.

It seems you are incapable of reading. Never mind, trolls will be trolls.

 

[disconap]

Done correctly and following the guide the OP mentioned, it's dead nuts reliable - mine has been every bit as reliable as my Macs.

Has. Thus far. For your uses. Right. Can't agree more, my Atom hackintosh hasn't failed as a file server yet and my netbook is rock solid. But again, for their uses they work fine.

Are you using it in a studio? With all the specific hardware and software, the constant 8-16 hours/day heavy use, and know that it will all work constantly without fail? It's irresponsible to take a risk like that in a production environment, a professional wouldn't risk it.

 

[nanofrog]

That is also false information. They were making multiple copies from a single OS DVD.

"On November 27, 2008 Apple claimed "Psystar violated the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA)..."

DMCA violation = Copyright Infringement

(Source).

By losers who can't make things on their own so they resort to theft of other people's work.

None of what they did was based on their own work. They took the OS from Apple, and the methodology from others improperly as well.

Also incorrect. They filed simply because somebody was making a profit of their work. If you made something and somebody stole it, made copies and sold it as their own device, wouldn't you be a little ticked off?

That's what Copyright Infringement is. They don't have permission or licensing agreement to reproduce and sell others property (printed or media such as music or images).

Source.

Not even remotely.

It's worked in other instances, i.e. MS for example (allowed users to utilize Upgrade licenses rather than Retail, such as carrying over a drive from a previous system). The law has to apply equally to others as well. Apple has no special privliges in this regard.

You seem to thing EULA = Law, going by various posts you've made in multiple threads. It does NOT. It's a contract, and unchallenged in a court. So there's no hard and set rules as to what language is or is not acceptable from a legal standpoint.

 

[codymac]

Has. Thus far. For your uses. Right. Can't agree more, my Atom hackintosh hasn't failed as a file server yet and my netbook is rock solid. But again, for their uses they work fine.

Are you using it in a studio? With all the specific hardware and software, the constant 8-16 hours/day heavy use, and know that it will all work constantly without fail? It's irresponsible to take a risk like that in a production environment, a professional wouldn't risk it.

True.

Yeah, I'm using the "hell out of it" - mostly as a guest for various VMs as I'm a Unix geek by day. Professional kind of comes into an interpretive thing in the OP's case, IMHO and it sounds like a compromise that may work for him, depending on his technical background.

Studio? No... when I tore apart my studio, Mac Pros didn't exist. I was using a Quadra back then.

 

[giffut]

Here ...

... in Germany, any contract must be readable BEFORE the customer purchases the product. Regarding retail OSX boxes, the EULA obviously isn´t printed outside of the box, therefore you can´t read it before you purchase it. Result: It´s void, plain simple. There are no provisions to read it via WWW before you enter the store, as the contract must be tied to the product, so to speak.

So: If you purchase OSX, you are good to go Hackintosh. If you don´t, it´s not the EULA, but Copyright Infringement anyway.

But what I, like many others, strongly believe: Apple doesn´t want to fight this, because anyone on a hackintosh sooner or later buys Apple - iPods and iPhones etc. included. If it´s a problem of funds, it just takes more time, but the customer grows on them.

 

[Spanky Deluxe]

... in Germany, any contract must be readable BEFORE the customer purchases the product. Regarding retail OSX boxes, the EULA obviously isn´t printed outside of the box, therefore you can´t read it before you purchase it. Result: It´s void, plain simple. There are no provisions to read it via WWW before you enter the store, as the contract must be tied to the product, so to speak.

So: If you purchase OSX, you are good to go Hackintosh. If you don´t, it´s not the EULA, but Copyright Infringement anyway.

But what I, like many others, strongly believe: Apple doesn´t want to fight this, because anyone on a hackintosh sooner or later buys Apple - iPods and iPhones etc. included. If it´s a problem of funds, it just takes more time, but the customer grows on them.

I love the Germans.

Exactly, Apple doesn't (or at least shouldn't) fight too hard against the hackintosh scene. Of course they should stop anyone else making a profit off of their work - e.g. Psystar. If you look through the InsanelyMac forums you can see that a LOT of the original hackintosh makers went on to buy MacBooks etc.

When Apple announced that they would be transferring to Intel chips I was immediately very interested in switching from Windows. I played around with the original Tiger Development Transition kit. While back then I couldn't get good enough video acceleration for it to be usable full time, it did convince me that OSX was the way to go. An Intel Mac Mini followed to run side by side with my PC. My Dell laptop got replaced with an iBook G4. My PC and Mac Mini were then replaced by a Mac Pro when they were released. Three or four years later and I've bought two Mac Minis, two iBooks, two MacBooks, one MacBook Pro, one MacBook Air, one iMac, five iPhones, a Mac Pro and a 30" Apple Cinema Display. All of that because I originally played with a hackintosh.

I've now returned to the hackintosh scene with a machine to replace my Mac Pro since I needed something more powerful and Apple's pricing structure on their Mac Pro line is out of control and for me unjustifiable.

 

[Super_Saxy]

Are you using it in a studio? With all the specific hardware and software, the constant 8-16 hours/day heavy use, and know that it will all work constantly without fail? It's irresponsible to take a risk like that in a production environment, a professional wouldn't risk it.

I'm using it in my home studio. I work for a company where I do remote classical recordings. For that I have my 17" PowerBook thats been like a tank. I use Logic, the Apogee ensemble, and am getting Milennia pres soon. I use my company's mics, usually a stereo pair of Neumann 184s and two AKG 414s for omnis. For really high end jobs, I'll use a pair of Schoepps.

I'll be using this hackintosh mostly for mastering and mixing. No real heavy duty tracking.

Professional kind of comes into an interpretive thing in the OP's case, IMHO and it sounds like a compromise that may work for him, depending on his technical background.

Studio? No... when I tore apart my studio, Mac Pros didn't exist. I was using a Quadra back then.

I'm thinking that its going to be a good compromise. Of course I'd ideally like a Mac Pro, but from all the research that I've done, as long as I prepare very carefully and follow a quality build, I shouldn't run into too many problems.

Greg

 

[nanofrog]

I love the Germans.

Exactly, Apple doesn't (or at least shouldn't) fight too hard against the hackintosh scene. Of course they should stop anyone else making a profit off of their work - e.g. Psystar. If you look through the InsanelyMac forums you can see that a LOT of the original hackintosh makers went on to buy MacBooks etc.

When Apple announced that they would be transferring to Intel chips I was immediately very interested in switching from Windows. I played around with the original Tiger Development Transition kit. While back then I couldn't get good enough video acceleration for it to be usable full time, it did convince me that OSX was the way to go. An Intel Mac Mini followed to run side by side with my PC. My Dell laptop got replaced with an iBook G4. My PC and Mac Mini were then replaced by a Mac Pro when they were released. Three or four years later and I've bought two Mac Minis, two iBooks, two MacBooks, one MacBook Pro, one MacBook Air, one iMac, five iPhones, a Mac Pro and a 30" Apple Cinema Display. All of that because I originally played with a hackintosh.

I've now returned to the hackintosh scene with a machine to replace my Mac Pro since I needed something more powerful and Apple's pricing structure on their Mac Pro line is out of control and for me unjustifiable.

Exactly.

Even students using pirated copies of professional software in order to learn during their uni days, will end up either purchasing it once they become working professionals. So it actually can benefit the original vendors quite substantially, especially when such an individual is responsible for an entire company's software package planning and purchasing. Even if they only purchase a single copy for themselves, they tend to become loyal customers and purchase multiple revisions throughout their careers. It still adds up, and there's a good chance there's word-of-mouth advertising involved as well.

Making a profit by selling other's IP without permission is a different story. That's where I see a clear difference between Psystar and individual users, and apparently, you're of a similar mind.

 

[Super_Saxy]

Exactly.

Even students using pirated copies of professional software in order to learn during their uni days, will end up either purchasing it once they become working professionals. So it actually can benefit the original vendors quite substantially, especially when such an individual is responsible for an entire company's software package planning and purchasing. Even if they only purchase a single copy for themselves, they tend to become loyal customers and purchase multiple revisions throughout their careers. It still adds up, and there's a good chance there's word-of-mouth advertising involved as well.

Making a profit by selling other's IP without permission is a different story. That's where I see a clear difference between Psystar and individual users, and apparently, you're of a similar mind.

I totally agree with you. How else was I, as a college student studying the recording arts, supposed to learn all the various software programs out there? Rather than fight with other students over precious studio time just to use it for learning how to use the software, I just downloaded a pirated version, so I could learn on my own.

 

[BaldiMac]

I totally agree with you. How else was I, as a college student studying the recording arts, supposed to learn all the various software programs out there? Rather than fight with other students over precious studio time just to use it for learning how to use the software, I just downloaded a pirated version, so I could learn on my own.

Exactly! And how are we supposed to learn to use all of the different hardware involved without stealing them! After we figure out which one we like and make "enough" money, then we can buy one legally!

 

[nanofrog]

I totally agree with you. How else was I, as a college student studying the recording arts, supposed to learn all the various software programs out there? Rather than fight with other students over precious studio time just to use it for learning how to use the software, I just downloaded a pirated version, so I could learn on my own.

That's my point.

Universities tend not to have adequate equipment for students to use, so it ends up being difficult at best to have enough time to learn/complete assignments. They rely on students having their own equipment. Computer's aren't optional resources, but required these days, including any specialty software or hardware needed for such a system.

There are a few exceptions, but that tends to be non-computer equipment or is just beyond what a student can afford in my experience (i.e. tens of $k or more).

Exactly! And how are we supposed to learn to use all of the different hardware involved without stealing them! After we figure out which one we like and make "enough" money, then we can buy one legally!

Hardware is much harder, and usually has to be paid for. That's not really justifiable, and I'm having a hard time trying to think up of the details (not sure how one would even be able to steal such things, assuming it's not commonly available, such as capture cards of some sort).

What I do recall, we built what we needed or bought used when possible (i.e. electronics kits, free designs now available on the web, or used equipment market for engineering though). Professors even provided designs and BOM's in some cases (equipment), and arranged group purchases through suppliers on occasion.

 

[BaldiMac]

Hardware is much harder, and usually has to be paid for. That's not really justifiable, and I'm having a hard time trying to think up of the details (not sure how one would even be able to steal such things, assuming it's not commonly available, such as capture cards of some sort).

What I do recall, we built what we needed or bought used when possible (i.e. electronics kits, free designs now available on the web, or used equipment market for engineering though). Professors even provided designs and BOM's in some cases (equipment), and arranged group purchases through suppliers on occasion.

No, I'm talking about the full studio equipment. Rather than fight with other students over precious studio time just to use it for learning how to use the equipment, I could just break in after hours, so I could learn on my own. Or just steal the equipment and set up my own studio, so I could learn on my own.

 

[nanofrog]

No, I'm talking about the full studio equipment. Rather than fight with other students over precious studio time just to use it for learning how to use the equipment, I could just break in after hours, so I could learn on my own. Or just steal the equipment and set up my own studio, so I could learn on my own.

I recall labs had gone to 24/7 access for equipment in most departments in order to allow students availability.

As per taking the equipment (uni property), that not only hurts others by denying access to it, but could get you arrested and prevent you from ever graduating and a career in your field.

 

[BaldiMac]

I recall labs had gone to 24/7 access for equipment in most departments in order to allow students availability.

Really? Even on my campus? Does that mean I would have to break in to one of the private or commercial studios in the area to avoid fighting with other students over studio time?

As per taking the equipment (uni property), that not only hurts others by denying access to it, but could get you arrested and prevent you from ever graduating and a career in your field.

But denying somebody their rights to their property is justifiable as long as I am not trying to make a profit, right?

 

[BaldiMac]

... in Germany, any contract must be readable BEFORE the customer purchases the product. Regarding retail OSX boxes, the EULA obviously isn´t printed outside of the box, therefore you can´t read it before you purchase it. Result: It´s void, plain simple. There are no provisions to read it via WWW before you enter the store, as the contract must be tied to the product, so to speak.

The mythical German copyright loophole!

Without a license agreement, what gives you the right to install OS X?

What gives you the right to modify OS X in order to install it on a non-Mac?

What gives you the right to install updates (such as 10.6.1, etc.) that carry their own separate SLA that you must agree to before installation?

Why do no major software companies print their SLA on the outside of the box in Germany? Are their lawyers all idiots with a lesser understanding of German copyright law than you?

What about the text that IS printed on the box? Paraphrasing... "Requirements: Mac" and "Sale is dependent on acceptance of SLA."

 

[disconap]

I'm using it in my home studio. I work for a company where I do remote classical recordings. For that I have my 17" PowerBook thats been like a tank. I use Logic, the Apogee ensemble, and am getting Milennia pres soon. I use my company's mics, usually a stereo pair of Neumann 184s and two AKG 414s for omnis. For really high end jobs, I'll use a pair of Schoepps.

I'll be using this hackintosh mostly for mastering and mixing. No real heavy duty tracking.

I still don't suggest it; in fact, if your hardware is Firewire or USB, you'd probably be WAY better off spending the money on a mini and an SSD or two. For the same cost as a high end hackintosh, you could end up with a lower end iMac or a mini-server, two 30gb SSDs striped into a raid0 for the main drive (or 60gb if you happened to hit the Shell Shocker deal at NewEgg this morning), and a FW800 enclosure with 4 1TB (or whatever you'd need) drives striped however you need for speed and backup. Then again, if you trust that your hack will be stable, you can achieve the same thing in the box and have more power. Again it's a professional thing; if you're doing light work, recording your own band, or just wanting to learn, then it sounds like a great idea. If it is going into a full-time production environment, I personally would see it as a bad, bad call, mostly because you're taking a risk you don't need to since you aren't going to see much of a difference in audio engineering between a mini and a Mac Pro (or hack). If you do go that route, sincerest good luck, though, and definitely check out Cindori's guide on the forums (as well as infintemac and insanelymac).

 

[Spanky Deluxe]

I still don't suggest it; in fact, if your hardware is Firewire or USB, you'd probably be WAY better off spending the money on a mini and an SSD or two. For the same cost as a high end hackintosh, you could end up with a lower end iMac or a mini-server, two 30gb SSDs striped into a raid0 for the main drive (or 60gb if you happened to hit the Shell Shocker deal at NewEgg this morning), and a FW800 enclosure with 4 1TB (or whatever you'd need) drives striped however you need for speed and backup. Then again, if you trust that your hack will be stable, you can achieve the same thing in the box and have more power. Again it's a professional thing; if you're doing light work, recording your own band, or just wanting to learn, then it sounds like a great idea. If it is going into a full-time production environment, I personally would see it as a bad, bad call, mostly because you're taking a risk you don't need to since you aren't going to see much of a difference in audio engineering between a mini and a Mac Pro (or hack). If you do go that route, sincerest good luck, though, and definitely check out Cindori's guide on the forums (as well as infintemac and insanelymac).

The concept that hackintoshes are unstable just isn't true. A bit of research beforehand and a willingness to learn the meaning of kexts and you're there. I use my hackintosh to run complex simulations for work. Instead of buying a new Mac Pro at a stupidly inflated price, I built a hackintosh that is close to twice as fast processor wise, has oodles of memory and has a large SSD boot and app drive.

 

[glossywhite]

Its illegal
Its immoral
It demonstrates that you're too cheap/poor to buy the real thing

I think you could have somehow phrased that a little more politely, but I agree. You say it like it is a bad thing to be poor... like it is a character defect - that came across as rude, even though you may not have meant it to.

It isn't illegal. It isn't immoral provided you buy licenses and the third point is just plain snobbery.

I'm sorry to break it to you but it is illegal - you may as well just save a little longer and buy a Mac Pro, even a 2008 refurb - they SCREAM, whereas a Hackintosh just screams "cheap imitation". If you want to use a Mac, and are being paid to do a job which, by all intents and purposes, suggests to the client that you are a Mac owner but in fact are not, then the only person you're fooling is you. This is hilarious - dude, just save and get one ffs, although money is tight. How laughable!.

 

[NoSmokingBandit]

OP:
Since this thread has been derailed (more quickly than most threads, kudos macrumors!) feel free to send me a pm if you have hackintosh questions. I have 3 hacks in my house at the moment, and i've helped many other people build/install, so i know a little about whats going on.

you may as well just save a little longer and buy a Mac Pro, even a 2008 refurb - they SCREAM, whereas a Hackintosh just screams "cheap imitation".

How is running full, plain OSX an imitation? The hardware you say? Oh yes, i'd rather spend more and get less performance from a mac instead of building my own. The apple stamp on the side makes that big of a difference, eh?

 

[Spanky Deluxe]

I'm sorry to break it to you but it is illegal - you may as well just save a little longer and buy a Mac Pro, even a 2008 refurb - they SCREAM, whereas a Hackintosh just screams "cheap imitation". If you want to use a Mac, and are being paid to do a job which, by all intents and purposes, suggests to the client that you are a Mac owner but in fact are not, then the only person you're fooling is you. This is hilarious - dude, just save and get one ffs, although money is tight. How laughable!.

It isn't illegal. The EULA has not stood up in court as being legally binding yet anyway. Why would I want to save up my money to buy a Mac Pro when they're currently insanely overpriced? The hardware in the 2.66GHz Quad Mac Pro is about $1000 overpriced (Dell sells virtually the same machine for $1389). I could not buy a Mac Pro with the same performance as what I've built down no matter how much I paid. The only thing I'm going without now compared to the W3xxx processor based workstations is ECC memory support, which frankly, I can live quite happily without.

Why would I need to suggest to clients that I am a Mac owner? What kind of a fool gets work based on what their computers look like?

 

[DoFoT9]

That's my point.

Universities tend not to have adequate equipment for students to use, so it ends up being difficult at best to have enough time to learn/complete assignments. They rely on students having their own equipment. Computer's aren't optional resources, but required these days, including any specialty software or hardware needed for such a system.

There are a few exceptions, but that tends to be non-computer equipment or is just beyond what a student can afford in my experience (i.e. tens of $k or more).

dont come to our uni then! 3+ year old computers...terrible internet (that we pay for).. software that is old (e.g. must be emulated! ) and pathetic..

i torrent software, it makes it so easy for us students to do the required work.

p.s. take a breather nano