Hackintosh

[Anonymous Freak]

actually, its not illegal, as long as you have a legit copy of OS X, and an "apple logo" on your computer, youre made in the shade. what do you think the apple stickers are for?

Sorry, but "labeled" is a legally-defined term that means the same thing as "manufactured by". Sticking an Apple logo on your Compaq (not that I would ever do that, mind...) does not make it qualify as "Apple-labeled" to pass EULA muster.

In addition, violating a EULA is *NOT* illegal. There is no law you are breaking. You are breaking a civil contract, which does have potential financial issues. In addition, it is possible that the hacks required to install OS X on a "Hackintosh" violate Apple's copyright, or the anti-circumvention parts of the DMCA, in which case THAT would be illegal. But mere violation of the "Apple labeled" clause does not mean you are breaking the law.

 

[ruckus]

i know two people that have done it, neither still use it because it just didn't work well. You can't get updates right away, and there would always be some hardware incompatibility.

Its just not worth the hassle.

 

[kuebby]

I do agree the Mac Pro's are well priced (have a look at the Xeon price tags).

What apple needs is a mid ranged tower. Similar specs to the iMac, but with the Mac Pro customizability.

But then you lose the most important element of capitalism: profitability.

How much do you think Dell makes from each $400 box they sell? There's a reason Apple is worth 127B and Dell is only worth 45B.

 

[Silver-Fox]

It is against Forum Rules to discuss this as it is against the OSX EULA

WTF man lol you read the rules....

 

[speakerwizard]

But then you lose the most important element of capitalism: profitability.

How much do you think Dell makes from each $400 box they sell? There's a reason Apple is worth 127B and Dell is only worth 45B.

not only that but 90% of people do not upgrade anything on their computers, and about 50% of the rest only do the ram (which is fine on the imac) other than that the rest are probably gamers or specialized so are better off with the pro, apple knows this and thats why the imac works. ALmost all the non-techies i know with tower pc's even get external Hard Drives, they dont want to open up a computer anymore than they want to open up their toaster or TV, and the market is moving more and more towards non-upgradable computers anyway (laptops primarily but now smart phones and umpc's too) the computer if finally becoming what apple always envisioned it as, a home appliance.

 

[rhett7660]

Not to start a flame war, but what is the difference between hacking a computer's os to run on another computer then hacking an os on a phone to run other programs or to run it on a carrier that is not authorized to carry the iPhone??

I am sorry, but it seems like we are splitting hairs here? It is ok to talk about and openly discuss "hacking" an iPhone?

Unless the mods say no, and remove this post....

 

[stainlessliquid]

i know two people that have done it, neither still use it because it just didn't work well. You can't get updates right away, and there would always be some hardware incompatibility.

Its just not worth the hassle.

If you have a Core 2 Duo or other intel sse3 processor then you can get all official apple updates using PCEFI. AMD users have to wait for fixed updates for some stuff. Its a good idea to build a new pc with hackintosh compatibility in mind, there are many options to choose from that will give you 100% compatibility, if you dont specifically build one that is compatible then you arent guaranteed to have every feature on your motherboard function (like mic recording or ethernet). Pretty much everything you can buy works 100% though, what it really comes down to is which motherboard will work 100% out of the box after installation and which motherboard will need some kext edits to get things like ethernet and sound working after installation. I havent heard of any computers that were completely incompatible as long as they met the sse2/sse3 requirements, the biggest problem people run into is trying to install leopard on an IDE drive when their motherboard is using the jmicron controller, they need to make sure the install disc has jmicron compatible kexts on it or they need to use SATA/usb.

 

[Tallest Skil]

Not to start a flame war, but what is the difference between hacking a computer's os to run on another computer then hacking an os on a phone to run other programs or to run it on a carrier that is not authorized to carry the iPhone??

I am sorry, but it seems like we are splitting hairs here? It is ok to talk about and openly discuss "hacking" an iPhone?

Unless the mods say no, and remove this post....

It's against Apple's EULA to run OS X on anything not made by Apple. It's legal to unlock the iPhone to use with other carriers.

 

[stainlessliquid]

It's against Apple's EULA to run OS X on anything not made by Apple. It's legal to unlock the iPhone to use with other carriers.

Breaking a eula is legal too. And it specifically states in the iphone eula that you cannot make unauthorized changes to it, so that is also against the eula. Apple doesnt make laws, for something to be illegal it has to violate a law. EULA's are mainly in place so the company isnt required to give you support if you mess up your product, since you broke your contract with them.

 

[pattman247]

If you have a Core 2 Duo or other intel sse3 processor then you can get all official apple updates using PCEFI. AMD users have to wait for fixed updates for some stuff.

You are 100% correct. Mac osx is supported fully on intel core 2 duo processors, since you are able to install the exact same kernal that authentic macintosh computers use, the vanilla kernal. This kernal installed on a core 2 duo basically fools the computer that it is a mac pro, and you would be able to even install system updates (10.5.1 to 10.5.2) without any crashes or instability. If you have a processor other than core 2, it would make it difficult to update. AMDs are able to be perfectly utilized with tiger and leopard, but that requires patching, or an already patched iso.

The other thing you would have to consider is the graphics card. You would have to use one of the newer ones (6200gt +) and (ati x1300 +) if you want to have quartz xtreme and core image (which you most certainly do).

Everything else can come with drivers or you can go the USB route for complete compatibility and least amount of hassle.

 

[spacecadet610]

i dabbled with hackintosh. honestly it's more trouble than it's worth to save the money. need to make sure your hardware is compatible (driver issues), plus upgrades aren't always straightforward. every so often, a neew version comes out and it's a pain to upgrade. if you are interested in playing with it as somewhat of a hobby, go for the hackintosh. but for most people, might as well get a real mac and not worry about those issues.

 

[gnasher729]

Not to start a flame war, but what is the difference between hacking a computer's os to run on another computer then hacking an os on a phone to run other programs or to run it on a carrier that is not authorized to carry the iPhone??

I am sorry, but it seems like we are splitting hairs here? It is ok to talk about and openly discuss "hacking" an iPhone?

Unless the mods say no, and remove this post....

There are differences. The first difference is that the iPhone is yours (just as the PC you want to install MacOS X on is yours, so we don't care here if Dell complains about you installing MacOS X), but hacking the iPhone doesn't involve making copies of the iPhone software, while installing MacOS X does. So hacking an iPhone is not infringing on Apple's rights.

So what is different with installing MacOS X on a PC? Many people who try to install MacOS X will _not_ buy a copy. And you can't just install a retail version of Leopard, it has to be modified. To do that, many people will download a patched version (that is copyright infringement, even if you have a retail DVD, properly purchased, in your hand); very few will be able to create a patched DVD themselves, and even that is "creating a derived work" in copyright terms, which is also copyright infringement.

So even if we are fully ignoring the EULA, you will find it very, very difficult to install MacOS X on a PC without copyright infringement.

If you put an Apple sticker on a computer and claim it is "Apple labelled", any court with just laugh at you if the case went to a court (and remember, nobody, especially not judges, likes a smart ass). "Apple labelled" means: Labelled by Apple. Installing a copy from a Family Pack is a no-no, because in that case it isn't copyright law that allows you to make five copies, it is the EULA.

 

[weckart]

In addition, it is possible that the hacks required to install OS X on a "Hackintosh" violate Apple's copyright, or the anti-circumvention parts of the DMCA, in which case THAT would be illegal. But mere violation of the "Apple labeled" clause does not mean you are breaking the law.

The thread starter is an enzedder. The DCMA means diddly-squat to him. Copyright as contained within the EULA is also doubtful at best where he lives. Whilst this is a US-based forum, which has to observe local legal niceties, its members are scattered all over the world and 'legal' does not start or end with US legislation.

 

[stainlessliquid]

but hacking the iPhone doesn't involve making copies of the iPhone software,

Does hacking the iphone involve flashing the firmware like PSP hacking? If so then yes it indeed does create a copy.

It is also 100% legal to make copies of your software anyways. Im not sure why you think its not. The RIAA tried to pull some crap about copying your music being illegal, it wasnt their brightest moment. It all falls under fair use.

 

[ezekielrage_99]

I really can't see the point in making a Hackintosh, it doesn't really represent what an Apple is.... An Apple computer is a good mix of hardware and software it hard seems worth the time and effort to do something like this...

 

[gnasher729]

It is also 100% legal to make copies of your software anyways. Im not sure why you think its not. The RIAA tried to pull some crap about copying your music being illegal, it wasnt their brightest moment. It all falls under fair use.

What you think is "fair use", and what copyright law says about it, are completely different things.

 

[stainlessliquid]

If you think that then why dont you think iphone unlocking is illegal?

Ive done some PSP custom firmware stuff and it is very very similar if not exactly the same as patching a leopard disc, I imagine iphone hacking is the same as what PSP's do since they both use the same kind of exploits and both use modified firmware. When running the patch/exploit the firmware is dumped (copied) to a storage device, then it is patched, then the original firmware is erased from the flash memory and the patched firmware is put back on it. With patching a dvd you first make a dmg of the dvd, then the patch modifies the dmg and creates a useable iso to burn. The process is practically exactly the same but replacing flash memory with dvd's. From a legal standpoint I fail to see the difference.

And just like iphone and psp firmware exploit files, the patch files for the leopard disc are publicly available on websites and legal.

 

[gothiquegirrl]

Wrong? Well, that depends on your definition of wrong. Against the EULA? Yes. Illegal? No. Stealing? I say yes, but others could reasonably argue for no. Against the policy of this site to discuss? Yes.

More trouble than it's worth? It's not more trouble than it's worth if you think it's fun (like I do) to search the interweb and various forums looking for drivers, patches, etc. If you want something that works like a Mac, however, you should buy a Mac.

I played around with a Hackintosh because I wanted to try Leopard out before I bought a Mac. I liked it on a Lenovo Thinkpad T60, so much so, that I went out and bought an iMac and ditched the Thinkpad. Frankly, now I can't imagine ever buying a PC again. In light of experiences like mine, it may even be in apple's best interest to look the other way.

Truthfully, I don't like "grey areas" on things like this. I think it's black and white. Apple as a company DO NOT want you to run the software on anything but a Apple machine. That's their prerogative. If they intended to have you run it on any old box, they would allow you to do it themselves. It IS in fact, wrong - even if it isn't "technically" illegal ( although, I am not sure it isn't ) .

Just because you CAN do things... Doesn't mean you SHOULD do them.

If you enjoy tinkering with things, i am sure there are other things you could have applied your talents to. For the average user, it IS more trouble than it is worth.

If someone wants to try out OS X before they drop a couple of $1000 on a computer , there are other ways of doing that. Even if they just go buy a older used mac on ebay that runs OS X. In fact, you can tinker all you want with one of those...

In my opinion, the truth is that you are looking to justify doing something you KNEW was wrong with these excuses. I think you are hoping for some sort of validation. Well you won't get it from me. Personally, I bought a OLD iMac on ebay for $50 bucks to try out OS X before I bought an expensive new machine. I COULD have made a hackintosh if I wanted - but I felt it was wrong. Even if no one else would have known, *I* would have known.

I think at best, what you did was "cheating". Hopefully, the other members of this community won't let you just "slide" that by them. Many of us have chosen to save and buy our machines BEFORE we could feel entitled to enjoy the benefits of OS X . We waited until we could follow the rules ( none of this "technicality" BS) and use OS X ( Tiger or Leopard) the right way by buying a Apple machine.

Of course what you do/did is your choice. However, expecting many in this community not to frown on your actions is a bit silly. It is the land of " Appler - than - you " thinking ... ( to paraphrase on another user's term)

Anyway, In the end... I don't care what you did or what you do. My post is my opinion. There is nothing you can say to change my mind on this topic. To me, the issue is cut & dry. It's just not something I'd be proud of doing.
BUT if I did do it.. I wouldn't bother anyone with stupid justifications - I'd just say "i did it" and I don't care if it's wrong. I mean just OWN IT.. LOL

Ok, well i'm off polish my shiny new iMac again... Have a nice Day!

Ang

 

[dukebound85]

It is against Forum Rules to discuss this as it is against the OSX EULA

no it isnt, arn has said they dont enforce eula violations

 

[flopticalcube]

no it isnt, arn has said they dont enforce eula violations

...and this has been even more noticeable since the iPhone appeared.

 

[chrono1081]

You would be better off going to one of the specialty forums. try googling osx86 or insanelymac

After reading the posted articles, they actually promote pirating Leopard, so I am reporting your post.

Im sorry thats just childish. First off, I asked something similar in a post before if it was possible to put OSX on a windows machine. If youve never owned a mac before this doesnt sound unreasonable, after all, I can put linux on my windows machine and the apple store sells boxed versions of Leopard.

Second, if youve never owned a mac youve never read the EULA not that many people read them anyway. All the guy did was ask a question. Ease up.

 

[saltyzoo]

If you think that then why dont you think iphone unlocking is illegal?

You'd be comparing apples to apples (pardon the pun) if you were hacking iphone software to run on a motorola phone. But you aren't.

 

[saltyzoo]

Not sure why people don't just install ubuntu if they want to toy with a machine. It's quite nice.

 

[tominated]

The rest look like crap.

What if you use a mac pro enclosure? ahem...

 

[flopticalcube]

Im sorry thats just childish. First off, I asked something similar in a post before if it was possible to put OSX on a windows machine. If youve never owned a mac before this doesnt sound unreasonable, after all, I can put linux on my windows machine and the apple store sells boxed versions of Leopard.

Second, if youve never owned a mac youve never read the EULA not that many people read them anyway. All the guy did was ask a question. Ease up.

from the forum rules:

Things Not to Do

These are usually not instantly bannable - but will likely get you edited and/or warned.

...

Warez/Serials/Keys. Do not post software serial numbers or keys or refer people to specific websites or software whose purpose is to break or bypass software licensing methods, distribute cracks, or obtain or use commercial software or media in violation of its license and/or for copyright violation. Do not ask for or give such help.

I was more than happy to direct his interest in the right direction. The links, however, point at direct ways of obtaining patched versions of Leopard without purchasing it. It is not "childish" to report a potential violation of the forum rules to the mods. It is your duty as a forum member to do so. Now, given the more liberal attitude towards hackintoshes on this board recently, the mods have decided to take no action in this case, which is their perogative but that doesn't mean we should not alert them to such borderline cases.