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Handbrake 0.9.3 released

Cromulent said:
As I said before it has nothing to do with the intrinsic speed of the program. It is exactly the same speed. The only change is the settings you are using.
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Actually you are generally right but frankly 0.9.3 is *faster* than 0.9.2 using the *same settings*. So to properly compare you would use the Apple > Legacy > AppleTV Legacy preset in 0.9.3 (oops, just gave it away .. you can use 0.9.3 with the old 0.9.2 preset 😉 ) of course using the same source for comparison.

among other things the x264 encoder is *much* faster in 0.9.3 with better output.
 
I used to use isquint to convert avis for my ipod, then hook up the ipod to my TV and watch that way. Settings were: optimized for TV, Go Nuts, and H.264.

Deciding to try Handbrake, I can't seem to find an appropriate setting. The iPod preset assumes you want to watch it on your iPod and results in the movie being 320x240. isquint made my videos grow to 640x480, but Handbrake keeps the same resolution, in this case 512x384. I was told to use the Universal preset, but the quality is poorer compared to when I used isquint. Could anyone recommend a decent setting? Thanks a ton!
 
Thanks, I will try with the Legacy preset and see if the speed returns. Well spotted. I don't like to go back software releases if I have to.
 
Is there a reason I can't choose "double pass" any more with the AppleTV preset? Also, is it always set at "59% quality"? What was the reason this was changed vs. the "2500 kbps" it was before?

Any info would be appreciated!
 
fivepoint said:
Is there a reason I can't choose "double pass" any more with the AppleTV preset? Also, is it always set at "59% quality"? What was the reason this was changed vs. the "2500 kbps" it was before?

Any info would be appreciated!
Click to expand...

From the release announcement (http://handbrake.fr/?article=9):

There have been many changes to most of them. Please be aware that most presets now use different settings. This means most of them are not suited for benchmarking 0.9.3 against 0.9.2. For example, the AppleTV preset is slower because it is now quality based, and produces much more efficient output. The Normal preset uses psychovisual rate distortion. The High Profile presets use psychovisual trellising. All of these setting changes can influence encoding time and output file size.

For comparison purposes, there are several presets in the Apple->Legacy folder (the old iPod High-Rez, the old AppleTV, and the old iPhone presets) which remain unchanged since 0.9.2.
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I find that handbrake has better video quality especially for dark scenes in which macroblocking may be apparent. I hate blocks! Handbrake, however, crashes a lot on conversion of mkvs, which I have not quite found a fix for. If it does work, the quality is superb.

Mo
 
Cromulent said:
Wow, thanks for the heads up on the new release. Just doing a test encode now. Seems quite slow but I am encoding a 1080p film which I guess is pretty intense 🙂. Seems to fully utilise your CPU (a good thing).

I think the increased time could be due to the fact that the settings are by default better quality. You'll have to play around in the advanced tab to see what is the best in terms of quality and speed.

For reference I'm getting 6fps encoding to the Apple TV preset a 1080p film (the only change to the preset was to remove the anamorphic setting and to restore it to full 1080p resolution).

Edit : That's on a 2006 Mac Pro by the way.
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Bump your ram to 6 or 8 gb and your fps will jump. Check your page outs and I'll bet there high with only 2gb ram.
 
Mindflux said:
Bummer. I don't use VLC and have no desire to install it.
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Don't mean to sound like an aXX but you have over 1900 posts and you're a Demi-God and you don't have VLC on your computer? Wow!
(That would be a good poll)

It's only one of the most useful and versatile media programs on the Mac.

It doesn't litter your hard drive, it is self contained and just puts prefs in user/Library/Preferences/VLC
It's not like other codecs that put stuff in root/Library/etc or root/System/Library/etc

You're missing out on one of the best mac programs that I have been using since 2002/2003
 
Off Topic

As a legacy format .rm might have some relevance? bc the original content is no longer available?

I don't know any casual (meaning everyone who doesn't join computer forums) computer users that even know what .rm .ra etc even mean.

Q. Who really uses .rm media nowadays?
A. In terms of media outlets, no one unless they have free licenses and "incentives."

As much as I hate .wmv, i'd rather deal with one than a .rm
Come to think of it, I have only had to deal with one .rm and one .rmvb in a job since 2001.

For a name of "Real", they are really unimportant, and their Mac app sucks as much as MS Mac WMP.

Back in their HeyDay, I liked Real, but since the were not integrated into an OS like WMP and Quicktime, they had to have adverts and a clunky interface, and their PC version was always steps ahead of the Mac version.

The only ballsy/original that Real did in the past 7 years was try to market this new DVD ripping/encoding app that preserves CCS ( or is that CSS) and allow consumers to easily put their DVDs on their CPU. (Stuck in lawsuits now)

I think that Apple is secretly watching this closely, as a possible new iTunes/AppleTV route

/Rant Over

Sorry people, forgot this was a handbrake thread, not a Real/VLC thread.

Anyway, HandBrake Rules, and now I need to contribute to this thread instead of ranting.
 
Has there been any tweaks from the Developer Snapshot in this final release? I have a few .mkv files that I can now encode, which I wasn't able to on the Developer Snapshot (failed halfway through).

spacepower7 said:
Don't mean to sound like an aXX but you have over 1900 posts and you're a Demi-God and you don't have VLC on your computer? Wow!
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A Demi-God is just someone who's contributed to the hosting of this website (PayPal of a few bucks). It isn't a measure of the intelligence or computing experience of a forum member.
 
I tired for about an hour last night to test the new handbrake with some avi files. And every time it crashed mid encode. It nice that it preserves your queue but i guess it should since it crashed so much. Back to iSquint i guess.
 
NightStorm said:
From the release announcement (http://handbrake.fr/?article=9):
Click to expand...

I do not see how that answers my question. For clarification, here is what I want to know:

  • Is there a reason I can't choose "double pass" any more with the AppleTV preset?
  • Is the new AppleTV preset always set at "59% quality"?
  • What was the reason this was changed vs. the "2500 kbps" it was before?
  • I did one movie last night in both legacy and current AppleTV format. The new one was almost half the size in the end, and I couldn't choose "double-pass" if my life depended on it. Why?

Dynaflash, do you have any insight on this matter?
 
I told you exactly what to do (without directly saying it)... use the AppleTV Legacy preset if you want to use the settings in .9.2. Hopefully the info below helps as well.

Is there a reason I can't choose "double pass" any more with the AppleTV preset?
Click to expand...
Two pass is not compatible (and unnecessary) with CRF.

Is the new AppleTV preset always set at "59% quality"?
Click to expand...
Yes. You're free to create a custom variant with a different value of course.

What was the reason this was changed vs. the "2500 kbps" it was before?
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The devs typically use CRF for their encodes and decided to make the preset based on a given percentage of quality (don't think that 100%=perfect though) instead of an average bitrate. This allows the encoder to use as few or as many bits as necessary to preserve this level of quality. The postives of this is better quality and smaller file sizes, the negatives are potential larger file sizes if the encoder needs to encode at a higher bitrate and the inability to estimate final output file sizes.

I did one movie last night in both legacy and current AppleTV format. The new one was almost half the size in the end, and I couldn't choose "double-pass" if my life depended on it. Why?
Click to expand...
This is because the new preset doesn't use bits when they are not necessary. What happened is the encoder determined that fewer bits were neeeded to encode at the quality requested. With ABR, the encoder uses bits even if they are not necessary in order to maintain the given ABR.

In all honesty, if quality is a concern you really should use CRF. If file sizes are a concern, use ABR.
 
NightStorm said:
I told you exactly what to do (without directly saying it)... use the AppleTV Legacy preset if you want to use the settings in .9.2. Hopefully the info below helps as well.
Click to expand...

Right, I knew that I COULD use the old one, I was just wondering what the benefits of the new version were, and why the decisions were made to make the changes.



Two pass is not compatible (and unnecessary) with CRF.
Click to expand...

Thank you.



Yes. You're free to create a custom variant with a different value of course.
Click to expand...

And the higher the percentage, the higher the bitrate, correct?



The devs typically use CRF for their encodes and decided to make the preset based on a given percentage of quality (don't think that 100%=perfect though) instead of an average bitrate. This allows the encoder to use as few or as many bits as necessary to preserve this level of quality. The postives of this is better quality and smaller file sizes, the negatives are potential larger file sizes if the encoder needs to encode at a higher bitrate and the inability to estimate final output file sizes.
Click to expand...

Very good info. Thanks! During high-motion scenes, I'm assuming CRF automatically adjust the bitrate so you have more data in those scenes than those which dont' change much. Is that what you're saying? I don't know the difference between CRF and ABR... so that is my fault. Also, is there a possiblity of the bitrate auto-adjusting so high that the AppleTV can't handle it? Or does this become a possibility with HD content only?



This is because the new preset doesn't use bits when they are not necessary. What happened is the encoder determined that fewer bits were neeeded to encode at the quality requested. With ABR, the encoder uses bits even if they are not necessary in order to maintain the given ABR.
Click to expand...

Seems much more efficient. This will fit my setup well. Could you also explain to me what the "59%" number actually stands for, and how it directly translates into video quality/ bitrate?



In all honesty, if quality is a concern you really should use CRF. If file sizes are a concern, use ABR.
Click to expand...

Quality is my number one concern. I'm doing this for the long-haul, so I want to make sure I'm not sacrificing quality for a few MB here and there. So... with that being said... the new AppleTV preset should work a lot better for me than the 0.9.2 version? And I could also increase the percentage to get even more quality at the risk of a larger file size?



One last thing... the movie I tried last night was "The Saint". With the old version of the AppleTV preset, the output .mp4 file had black bars on top and bottom to acheive 16:9. The new version however, automatically took the bars out and just saved the movie itself. Is the new version more adept at doing this, and consequently saving file size?

Thanks for all of your help Nightstorm and Dynaflash! The community appreciates it!
 
fivepoint said:
And the higher the percentage, the higher the bitrate, correct?
Click to expand...
Yes, because the x264 encoder will try to maintain a higher level of quality, which will require more bits.

Very good info. Thanks! During high-motion scenes, I'm assuming CRF automatically adjust the bitrate so you have more data in those scenes than those which dont' change much. Is that what you're saying? I don't know the difference between CRF and ABR... so that is my fault. Also, is there a possiblity of the bitrate auto-adjusting so high that the AppleTV can't handle it? Or does this become a possibility with HD content only?
Click to expand...
That's exactly what it does -- uses bits when it needs them, but doesn't waste them when it doesn't. There are ways to control how the encoder operates (vbv-maxrate, vbv-bufsize), but I'll defer to dynaflash on this as I haven't had any problems with the preset, but I've only encoded one piece of HD material with the new Handbrake (I've been busy working with the devs on what eventually became the Universal preset).

Seems much more efficient. This will fit my setup well. Could you also explain to me what the "59%" number actually stands for, and how it directly translates into video quality/ bitrate?
Click to expand...
I can't explain it any better than the devs already have here: http://trac.handbrake.fr/wiki/CRFGuide

Quality is my number one concern. I'm doing this for the long-haul, so I want to make sure I'm not sacrificing quality for a few MB here and there. So... with that being said... the new AppleTV preset should work a lot better for me than the 0.9.2 version? And I could also increase the percentage to get even more quality at the risk of a larger file size?
Click to expand...
Sure, but don't go too crazy... Sticking close to 59% will do pretty good. I've seen some people bumping this as high as 62%, but anything higher with the newer x264 builds seems to be wasteful. HD sources may need to be lower from what I've read, but again I haven't done much testing in this area myself.

Thanks for all of your help Nightstorm and Dynaflash! The community appreciates it!
Click to expand...
Not a problem! 😀
 
NightStorm said:
Sure, but don't go too crazy... Sticking close to 59% will do pretty good. I've seen some people bumping this as high as 62%, but anything higher with the newer x264 builds seems to be wasteful. HD sources may need to be lower from what I've read, but again I haven't done much testing in this area myself.
Click to expand...

While the constant quality slider is obviously linear, there is actually a curve (and quite a curve) for cq in x264.

As a result, there is a huge point of diminishing returns. For sd dvd this hits at about 59-60%. Above that and you can start getting hugely bloated file sizes and bitrates with little and sometimes no visual quality gain.

Yes, vbv can be used to constrain bitrate spikes on noisy/complex sources but largely shouldn't be necessary with HB 0.9.3's ATV preset and ATV 2.3 imho. As well proper vbv settings is frankly way more than I want to go into here 🙂

afaiac constant quality is the way to go.
 
dynaflash said:
While the constant quality slider is obviously linear, there is actually a curve (and quite a curve) for cq in x264.

As a result, there is a huge point of diminishing returns. For sd dvd this hits at about 59-60%. Above that and you can start getting hugely bloated file sizes and bitrates with little and sometimes no visual quality gain.

Yes, vbv can be used to constrain bitrate spikes on noisy/complex sources but largely shouldn't be necessary with HB 0.9.3's ATV preset and ATV 2.3 imho. As well proper vbv settings is frankly way more than I want to go into here 🙂

afaiac constant quality is the way to go.
Click to expand...

So basically, just use the damn AppleTV preset, and you'll be fine!!! 🙂

The only other question I had, was the one below: "the movie I tried last night was "The Saint". With the old version of the AppleTV preset, the output .mp4 file had black bars on top and bottom to acheive 16:9. The new version however, automatically took the bars out and just saved the movie itself. Is the new version more adept at doing this, and consequently saving file size? "
 
The only other question I had, was the one below: "the movie I tried last night was "The Saint". With the old version of the AppleTV preset, the output .mp4 file had black bars on top and bottom to acheive 16:9. The new version however, automatically took the bars out and just saved the movie itself. Is the new version more adept at doing this, and consequently saving file size? "
Click to expand...
Going purely from memory, I believe there were some changes in the way automatic crop works in Handbrake -- you are likely seeing the benefit of this.

Or there was something wrong with the first encode. 😛
 
Thanks for the info - was interesting to read.

Is there any chance of a timer being included? I know there is an ETA timer, but an actual timer that tells you how long the encode actually took would be useful.

Also, I've noticed with HD material (when using the Apple Universal preset) that in the picture settings, it has squashed the picture right down and the resolution is something like 200x700 (short width and long height). I have to manually adjust to get the right resolution. The files I'm using are 720p.

Obviously I can just edit the preset and save a new one with the picture settings for HD files, just wondering why it does that.
 
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