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Although this is version 1.0 software (e-textbooks), I think the demo is not that impressive...all the repeated hand gestures and pinches. Sure, he may "get used to it" but I find the example video pretty poor on ease of use.

As I said before, it will be decades before e-textbooks are any kind of norm. Although the textbook may be heavy, it just works. Period. Can it be improved with animations and videos and searchability? Sure...but at what cost? Stolen iPads, crashing apps, dead batteries, incompatible OSes (I've seen this plenty with my apps on my iOS devices) and/or new bugs with upgrades, and finally the missing simplicity of opening up a book or bookmarking/dogearing a page...or taking 5 seconds with your pen to write "see page 12 for another example" on the side of any page.

The example also is really nothing more than an encyclopedia section...where's a REAL textbook with paragraphs of info, examples/diagrams, test-your-knowledge questions, and some sample whitespace to "show your work". The video example (regarding mitosis and ants) is not that much of a difference/improvement over MS Encarta '97. Seriously. Sure, there's the whole touchscreen aspect but that's at the iOS level.
 
I'm not sure I understand the selling point "the students get to keep their copies indefinitely". Hasn't that always been the case with items you purchase from iBooks?
 
I'm not sure I understand the selling point "the students get to keep their copies indefinitely". Hasn't that always been the case with items you purchase from iBooks?
As a Parent of "3" girls, this means I buy it once and each will get to use it, especially since these are continuously updated. Likewise, I can carry the same books around with me and look at what they will be working on, on my own device.

Additionally a teacher will only have to have one copy on their device as well. Theoretically they could probably install the book on all their students devices, and remove the book later on. Are there any limits on the number of ios devices that can share a program?
 
studying on an ipad? are you serious?
i don't know all of the world, but everywhere i go, people at the UNIs are printing pdf because staying all day long in front of a monitor is not healthy, and makes your head dizzy :)
the only thing i miss from a paper textbook is the search field.

btw, am i the only one who thought about harry potter? (the animated cards, or something like that..)
 
As a Parent of "3" girls, this means I buy it once and each will get to use it, especially since these are continuously updated. Likewise, I can carry the same books around with me and look at what they will be working on, on my own device.

i don't think it will last long until they come out with the brilliant idea of a "new 2013th edition" which can't be upgraded from your 2012th..
plus you should then have all your devices linked to one only account, which has pros and cons.
plus, i wonder what happens if i highlight a paragraph and then it will automatically be updated to a new version, will you get a warning? hope so..
 
As a Parent of "3" girls, this means I buy it once and each will get to use it, especially since these are continuously updated. Likewise, I can carry the same books around with me and look at what they will be working on, on my own device.

Additionally a teacher will only have to have one copy on their device as well. Theoretically they could probably install the book on all their students devices, and remove the book later on. Are there any limits on the number of ios devices that can share a program?

Not that I don't believe you...but show us proof that you can buy a copy of 5th Grade Math and let 3 (or more) other folks in your house use it...on THEIR own devices...AND GET FREE UPGRADES...all at no additional cost. You do realize EACH of your 3 daughters are going to need their own $500+ iPads...right?

So in your example, you are stating Julie is 9, Sue is 8, and Beth is 7. Julie buys her copy of Math and uses it all year. Then when Sue turns 9 and moves to the next grade, she simply copies/downloads for free the latest Math (since you already bought if for Julie) to use on her own iPad...and then a year later the same thing for Beth. I don't believe it.

The textbook people are not going to suddenly let a "family" buy 1 copy of a textbook and get unlimited free upgrades as well as free use on all devices. Each textbook will cost something.

That being said...when I was in public school from Grade 1 to about Grade 5, all our textbooks were GIVEN to us for free from the school. Sure, our tax dollars paid for them, but we did not buy them like you would as a college student.

Someone, somewhere, is paying for all these copies...and trust me that the publishing firms are not going to change their sales model to "now you only buy 1 copy per household" from "each human buys their own copy". :)
 
Well as a college student.. this really doesn't do me any good. While it may be nice.. most professors don't allow any electronics in class that use internet. And I would love to use my iPad2 for books.. but it would only work if ALL the teachers were on board. Maybe in 15 years.

In many cases, the teachers aren't honoring school policy, which always trumps their personal policy. Aside from exams, there is no reason for such things. You can't cheat on a lecture.

Also, when a school adopts a program, it's impossible for the teacher to NOT be on board with it. If your university adopted the iPad as a text book source, I don't think you'd have worries. I also think your college is a minority in this.

I was all excited for this yesterday, mainly because I thought Apple was going to make it easier for schools to select texts tailored to their specific needs. And to a degree that may still be the case.

However, I can see now that my expectations were way too high. It's obvious that Apple is continuing this trend where everything in life has to be a "rich media experience." We're already creating a generation of students who expect to be constantly entertained in every aspect of life. All I see Apple doing here is furthering this expectation, not revolutionizing, or even evolving, education.

I'm sorry to break it to everyone, but school isn't about always being entertained. If it was then we would just roll a TV into the classroom every day and let the kids watch Dora all day long. Oh wait, there already schools that do that.

Yes, and when you were in school did they still teaching typing on the typewriter? Show presentations on slide projectors? Waste paper and money on using the "ditto" machine?

All an iPad does is eliminate 20 things in the classroom and puts them into one object. This also in the long run would save schools TONS of money, allowing schools to use their budget for other things... like hey, arts programs that so many schools have had to cut? Computers began taking over classrooms in the 80's... today, many kindergaten's require kids to be familiar with a keyboard, mouse, and web browser. If something expands upon learning, that's never a bad thing.

It's not like kids are playing Angry birds in class on their school issued iPads. Those things are blocked. It's not about being entertained. 3rd graders really won't be streaming cartoon network... really.

As for your expectations, maybe don't think so big? It takes publishing companies years to compile printed text books... I don't know why anyone would think in a few months of talks all the publishers would be ready to unleash every text book known to man on the iPad.
It looks like interactive texts are coming in at 800 MB minimum and up to 1.5 GB. That's a crazy amount of storage for one book - a definite deal breaker. Hopefully, the iPad 3 has 128 GB, or support for iCloud reading. :)

Tony

I think you are assuming students would be able to use the iPad like they could if it belonged to them.
There are already public schools who have iPads for students... they're not allowed to download anything they want on them. The schools actually are able to block all that stuff... This leaves ample room even on a 16GB since they don't have music and video files hogging the hard drive.

Some classes, like a high school lit class, this would be even better. Those books are all public domain, and schools could skip buying a text book entirely. Those books take up mb's, not gigs. And not every text book is going to have media on every single page of the book... that was just a demo.
 
Not that I don't believe you...but show us proof that you can buy a copy of 5th Grade Math and let 3 (or more) other folks in your house use it...on THEIR own devices...AND GET FREE UPGRADES...all at no additional cost. You do realize EACH of your 3 daughters are going to need their own $500+ iPads...right?

So in your example, you are stating Julie is 9, Sue is 8, and Beth is 7. Julie buys her copy of Math and uses it all year. Then when Sue turns 9 and moves to the next grade, she simply copies/downloads for free the latest Math (since you already bought if for Julie) to use on her own iPad...and then a year later the same thing for Beth. I don't believe it.

The textbook people are not going to suddenly let a "family" buy 1 copy of a textbook and get unlimited free upgrades as well as free use on all devices. Each textbook will cost something.

That being said...when I was in public school from Grade 1 to about Grade 5, all our textbooks were GIVEN to us for free from the school. Sure, our tax dollars paid for them, but we did not buy them like you would as a college student.

Someone, somewhere, is paying for all these copies...and trust me that the publishing firms are not going to change their sales model to "now you only buy 1 copy per household" from "each human buys their own copy". :)

Explain the mechanism that the publisher will use to prevent digital "hand me downs".
 
The cheapest part of a text book is printing it. The 30% cut that Apple is taking is much more than the cost of actually printing them. The real money goes to Authors, Publishers and Editors. Those costs won't go down, publishing is already a low-margin business.

That $14.99 price is for self-published books. Self publishing has been around forever, but authors so far prefer publishers.

This is a great move. I really hope they work on the college/higher education project sooner than later. It is completely absurd that a textbook should cost what it does. They should not be free, but they should also not be $300. Case in point: The bookstore at my alma mater charged $98 for a used, paperback copy of Siddhartha. Nevermind that the price printed on the book (for when it was originally sold) was $12.99. Of course I didn't buy it. Anyway, I get that there's market economics at play, but there's also a bit of a racket: Why should the manager at the campus bookstore make $140,000 a year?
 
Only works on iPads?

It is a shame that these textbooks only work on iPads, not Macs, iPhone, iPods or any other non apple hardware. I still don't understand why apple hasn't released an iBook app for the Mac, windows or android.

Hopefully apple will realize that they are limiting their market by only allowing this content to work on iPads. Even providing a paid iBooks app for windows and android would expand the market and sales for books and textbooks created in this format.
 
It is a shame that these textbooks only work on iPads, not Macs, iPhone, iPods or any other non apple hardware. I still don't understand why apple hasn't released an iBook app for the Mac, windows or android.

Hopefully apple will realize that they are limiting their market by only allowing this content to work on iPads. Even providing a paid iBooks app for windows and android would expand the market and sales for books and textbooks created in this format.

I agree entirely with your second assertion. Adding an iBooks for android or windows 8 would be good advertising for the interfaces on iOS. Apple employed a similar strategy with Safari, and believe it or not, it worked on me. I liked Safari a lot, and switched to a mac once i put the money together.
 
i don't think it will last long until they come out with the brilliant idea of a "new 2013th edition" which can't be upgraded from your 2012th..
plus you should then have all your devices linked to one only account, which has pros and cons.
plus, i wonder what happens if i highlight a paragraph and then it will automatically be updated to a new version, will you get a warning? hope so..

Text books currently get updated (in K-12) about once every 3-5 years.
The reason? Those books, when new, can cost $100-$200 each. Even then, schools might not update a text for 8 years, especially poor schools. Some schools will buy a book system that is a few years old because then the books prices are cheaper. (Each year a text book lines price tends to drop as it moves towards being obsolete.)

When they talk about updates, it wouldn't be like they'd come out every month (unless maybe a bug fix or something). It would be most likely the texts might see anual updates, which by then, the class from the previous year would not be using those books anyway.

Note the focus is currently not on colleges, but K-12. Even with a college text book, you don't see updates every year. College text books do get updated more often... but these books are purchased by the student, and purchased every semester. College texts are a very different beast. Chances are, updates would follow the standard pre-fall release that college texts have followed since the invention of the campus book store. Where this is ugly is that colleges profit of their campus book stores, and you know what happens when someone looses a revenue stream... they raise tuition. Will be interesting to see.

Honestly though, if schools can snag iPads for $450... lasts the student 4 years... and drops $15-$20 per text book, maybe pays a small fee for updates (I doubt they will be free in this case), and you factor the cost of what it takes to replace text books every 4 years, even when being reused each year, I can see a savings of at least, if not more, than $1000 per student every four years. Elementary books and things aren't as pricey or as high in number as 6-12 grade, but still... if in 12 years you saved even just $9,000 per student.... that's a crap load of money for a public school.

So many schools are laying off teachers, and this type of initiative could be a few teachers salaries each year in a few school districts.

If Apple really wants this to work, they need to come out with some type of wireless networking for the iPad. If teachers could also lead a simultaneous lesson in a classroom, the advantages to a school become even greater. This can be done with PCs in a lot of cases, but PC's require a lot more maintenance and have more costs with them.

All these benefits, and you're worried you'd lose your highlights :D
 
It's interesting that a tech site such as this one has so many posters that seem to be afraid of change and can't see the forest through the trees.

This is the future!!!!
 
This is a great move. I really hope they work on the college/higher education project sooner than later. It is completely absurd that a textbook should cost what it does. They should not be free, but they should also not be $300. Case in point: The bookstore at my alma mater charged $98 for a used, paperback copy of Siddhartha. Nevermind that the price printed on the book (for when it was originally sold) was $12.99. Of course I didn't buy it. Anyway, I get that there's market economics at play, but there's also a bit of a racket: Why should the manager at the campus bookstore make $140,000 a year?

That sounds more like a mistake because Siddhartha is not a textbook but an easily obtainable novel that is available on Amazon brand new for as little as $3.50.

Textbooks are another story because they are actually quite expensive to develop, especially for areas of study that are subject to constant change (as opposed to a math or basic biology textbook). Most textbooks have greatly increased in page count over time. However, the problem in the industry is that as more students switched to used texbooks to save money, the publishers simply raised the prices on new textbooks to make up for it and textbooks are now priced absurdly because students were forced to buy them, so there was little price sensitivity.

The advent of textbooks as ebooks doesn't change that model much as it actually increases the development cost (although reduces the manufacturing cost.) Now they'll need a big staff of people (or outside contractors) to create all the layout and especially the interactive elements. Adding video footage either increases production costs (to develop it in-house) or licensing costs (if they license existing footage). And while there are copy-editors to review print, you need software testers to review interactive ebooks.

Note that the initial announcements today from publishers concern high-school textbooks, not college texts. I suspect the reason for that is that since high school texts are largely sold to entire schools systems or districts, they are sold for much lower cost so cannibalization to ebooks is not a huge issue. At the college level, selling ebooks for $15 instead of a $200 print copy would kill the textbook publishers. So I also suspect that Apple's "sell" to the publishers was that it might open up the market for textbooks to the general population at large.

At the high school level, what will be interesting is whether the advent of textbooks on the iPad kills the current adoption system which exists in about half of the states, mostly in the south and west, but including the three biggest textbook buyers: California, Texas and Florida. I have a feeling that the publishers who have agreed to participate have probably lost out on some major adoptions in those states, so they have nothing to lose. If an ebook textbook is still considered a core textbook, adoption commitees will probably insist that they still have control. If an ebook textbook is considered to be an "ancillary", it doesn't necessarily fall under the province of the adoption committees and the school districts can buy what they want.

In my view, the bigger potential is at the college level. In my opinion, the cost of college has become outrageous and except for people who want to work for large corporations or in professional fields (doctor, lawyer, architect, etc.), may no longer be viable because the jobs aren't there anyway. If high quality ebooks are created and sold for low cost, they could theoretically replace a college education for those who don't need the piece of paper called a degree.

In any case, whenever I think something won't happen because there isn't a viable business model for it, Apple seems to find a way anyway. This looks like very interesting stuff.
 
Explain the mechanism that the publisher will use to prevent digital "hand me downs".

How about this?

The entire book is nothing but HTML widgets, so one day the content gets updated with a message reading "your textbook is no longer valid, please purchase the latest edition." Or the pages are suddenly blank because the publisher changes the URL paths of the content to reflect the next edition. Like a self-erasing book...
 
Although this is version 1.0 software (e-textbooks), I think the demo is not that impressive...all the repeated hand gestures and pinches. Sure, he may "get used to it" but I find the example video pretty poor on ease of use.

As I said before, it will be decades before e-textbooks are any kind of norm. Although the textbook may be heavy, it just works. Period. Can it be improved with animations and videos and searchability? Sure...but at what cost? Stolen iPads, crashing apps, dead batteries, incompatible OSes (I've seen this plenty with my apps on my iOS devices) and/or new bugs with upgrades, and finally the missing simplicity of opening up a book or bookmarking/dogearing a page...or taking 5 seconds with your pen to write "see page 12 for another example" on the side of any page.

The example also is really nothing more than an encyclopedia section...where's a REAL textbook with paragraphs of info, examples/diagrams, test-your-knowledge questions, and some sample whitespace to "show your work". The video example (regarding mitosis and ants) is not that much of a difference/improvement over MS Encarta '97. Seriously. Sure, there's the whole touchscreen aspect but that's at the iOS level.

Wow. It was just a demo... you also miss the fact, a 5 year old can pick up an ipad and use it better than you can. (Not being rude... it's true. It's awful for your self esteem when your niece shows you up.) I notice a lot of people making similar comments, and it shows your age vs. kids of today. If I weren't involved with so many kids, or didn't keep current on these things, I'd not be much different. Maybe.

I mean, when I was in school, I thought scantron tests were fascinating that they could read your answer with a number 2 pencil...

But to ease some of your concerns:
*ebooks of all kinds are easily bookmarked.... oh, and that scrap of paper doesn't fall out between the pages to have you lose your place when you drop the book.
*schools that sign on with iPads have a free maintenance program with Apple. Hardware failure? Apple swaps out the iPad.
*If every kid has their own iPad, not really a reason to steal someone else's except to be a jerk... and kids have been doing that for a 100 years with whole back packs!
*Again your age... kids are doing more than half their lessons on computers now. When was the last time you went into a classroom?? They're quite different...
*iBooks have been searchable since day 1... might I suggest you download even a sample book of any kind to see how they work? Book marks, highlights, oh.... you can even grab the definition of any word in an ebook without leaving your page, which greatly improves my vocabulary at my age, much less a school kid who otherwise might not take the time to pull a big dictionary off the shelf.
*Notes in the margin of a school book? I think that was always a no no, writing in your books in public school, since other people use them the next year. If I recall, kids take notes in notebooks along side their text books... some old school ideas still are relevant.
*The practice tests in books you mentioned... again, you were never supposed to write in your book and had to record your answer on a seperate piece of paper, right? Well, in this format, a resettable quiz would easily be dropped into the text, and instead of passing your paper to the person behind you for a group check the answers, everyone would get an immediate score. In fact, the app could even generate a study guide for the student on the items they need more study/practice with.
*As for upgrades and compatibility, what do you think schools currently do with computers? They test new software or updates on them before rolling them out to every computer in the school. (Just like your IT department does at work.) Don't forget, the focus is K-12... these kids turn their iPads in at the end of each year. Apple also gives the school these docking carts that iPads get plugged into... you know, for mass updates and refreshes. Beyond K-12, you're dealing with adults who shouldn't have these concerns and would be more responsible. They're already using tablets and laptops anyway.

I'm not trying to poke fun at your concerns, but the bulk of them really just show generation gaps. I know not everyone has probably read and followed the articles and stories about schools who have been using iPads, but this info is all out there. The audience this presentation was for isn't ignorant to these things or Apple's education programs that existed before today.

I highly recommend you try out iBooks since you have IOS devices. It will squalsh half your concerns in just a few seconds.
 
I don't get why people say that reading off of a backlit screen is so horrible. Most of my classes send out lots of pdfs of papers for us to read, and I've stopped printing them out. As long as I keep the brightness at the right level, I actually find it pretty comparable to reading a book.

If publishers embrace the interactive components, there will be far less reading to do anyways. Kids these days aren't used to absorbing textual information anyways, so it makes sense for "books" to become less book-like.
 
.

...

I'm sorry to break it to everyone, but school isn't about always being entertained. If it was then we would just roll a TV into the classroom every day and let the kids watch Dora all day long. Oh wait, there already schools that do that.

Old school, make room for new school...

Welcome new school, whish I had known thee in my days of old, but glad you're here for my kids and my own continuing education efforts...

This is a glimpse of the future of learning, and it is bright!
 
Still hoping the iPad 2 gets a price drop to $399 (or less!) along with the iPad 3 release soon. $100 makes a big difference for cash strapped students and educators.
 
Explain the mechanism that the publisher will use to prevent digital "hand me downs".

well, it's not really the publisher necessarily. If they wish to change their version/edition/title of the textbook, the person may need to re-purchase it because, well, it's different.

And just because the book is on my iPad does NOT mean I can/cannot copy it (via iTunes or some legal/appropriate way) to my sister's iPad...or my friend's.

This is one of my points of e-books in the first place: We, as consumers, need to fully understand the Policies of Apple and the Publishers on what we can and cannot "do" with books...IN LAYMENS TERMS...how can I "loan" a book to my sister...or my friend?...or someone outside of my country? What happens if my iPad is lost or dies?...do I need to repurchase at full or a discount...or maybe free? Is there a period of time that I am no longer allowed to re-download my copy? What happens if Apple's iBook store gets hacked and my account is messed up? What happens if Apple decides to change policy _____ down the road? Who (and is?) is responsible for making sure my book works on all iPads down the road? how do I sell my e-textbook down the road? etc etc etc.

There are so many questions since these ebooks are intangible. When I buy a traditional textbook it's mine forever...I can give it or loan it to anyone I choose (hence why the publishers keep making new editions to force new students to buy the updated book when it simply might be 3 typos). If I lose it, I go buy another one if it is available for purchase. I can sell my book for any price I wish.

The TECHNOLOGY is easily available to answer all my questions...but it's POLICIES that dictate what will happen. And it's Policies that I wish to know well in advance before I abandon books and more to an ebook device with ebook downloads.
 
I'm not trying to poke fun at your concerns, but the bulk of them really just show generation gaps. I know not everyone has probably read and followed the articles and stories about schools who have been using iPads, but this info is all out there. The audience this presentation was for isn't ignorant to these things or Apple's education programs that existed before today.

I highly recommend you try out iBooks since you have IOS devices. It will squalsh half your concerns in just a few seconds.

Way to insult an entire generation. Yeah just dismiss legitimate concerns by accusing anyone older then 40 of being "out of touch" and "clueless". :rolleyes:

BTW I have tried out iBooks for textbooks and it's utter crap right now.
 
How about this?

The entire book is nothing but HTML widgets, so one day the content gets updated with a message reading "your textbook is no longer valid, please purchase the latest edition." Or the pages are suddenly blank because the publisher changes the URL paths of the content to reflect the next edition. Like a self-erasing book...

Unless I am mistaken, in reading the help file and playing with the app, it's all embedded in there. HTML doesn't mean internet access required.

You can also insert a keynote presentation, but it converts it to HTML. Kind of like how you can have an html page on your hard drive that you never use the internet to access.

I'm pretty sure Apple thought about this. Not saying you can't probably put hyperlinks in the books, but using the HTML widget appears to embed and compile whatever the media was into the finished book.

So no... it's not the erasable book. I think the software is based highly on iWeb (like iWeb meets Pages meets Keynote) and that's probably why it's so heavy on using and converting things into HTML.
 
Apple brings the future here, again.

More like Apple still hasnt caught up to Amazon yet again. I guess I'm not as big an apple fanboy as some people here, because today's announcement doesnt really change anything. In fact it merely means students buying books on iTunes will no longer be able to get money back by trading them in. This won't take off at all. Mostly I'm still completely underwhelmed by Apple's god-awful selection of mainstream books on iBooks. Horrible selection.

And a big LOL at Apple fans that think this is going to change anything. School systems dont have money to invest in this. They're cutting programs, and Apple fanboys think all of a sudden every student is going to be given free or discounted iPads. How hilariously out of touch.
 
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