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This Mac mini will beat your 10yo Mac on EVERY level. Don’t come here talking about pro users and then work on your ancient Mac Pro with usb 2.0 ports and a slow a$$ sata ssd

There are PCI-E slots in the ”ancient” Mac Pros for that. I have a card that gives two USB-C (Gen 2) ports. And it's now (since Mojave 10.14.1) also possible to use NVMe drives to boot macOS and reports are giving pretty good results.
For me an SSD in one of the old SATA 2 slots that's built-in to the computer are still pretty fast for my needs.

Anyway, of course the new Mac mini has a better CPU and other benefits. I still think the ”ancient” Mac Pros are very capable machines for their age. :)
 
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Sigh.
[doublepost=1542229141][/doublepost]

I recommend you use Synergy. I have a Mac Mini as my primary Mac/iChat/email computer and also a gaming PC on my desk. I have two monitors and share a keyboard, mouse, and drag and drop files between them with Synergy. It really is the best of all worlds.
Wow, this is huge - thanks for the tip, man! I'm absolutely going to get this!
 
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I just want to say to anyone looking to buy a mini, this is a great machine...all the naysayers out there who complain about it...I am here to say upgrading from my early 2009 mini to this one was a great investment. I didn't want the monitor included with an iMac; as the monitor I have is just fine for the business work I do on this machine;, nor did I want a laptop, nor do I have a use for an actual pro level machine. This is a welcome upgrade that makes things work a whole lot better for business and web work. No complaints here!
 
There are PCI-E slots in the ”ancient” Mac Pros fort that. I have a card that gives two USB-C (Gen 2) ports. And it's now (since Mojave 10.14.1) also possible to use NVMe drives to boot macOS and reports are giving pretty good results.
For me an SSD in one of the old SATA 2 slots that's built-in to the computer are still pretty fast for my needs.

Anyway, of course the new Mac mini has a better CPU and other benefits. I still think the ”ancient” Mac Pros are very capable machines for their age. :)
And don’t forget about the ECC ram.
 
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Guess what, people?!? Apple is NEVER going to build that computer for any of us. This should not be a revelation to anyone who has owned a Mac, Intel or PowerPC. If it is, then you have been ignoring reality and what Apple has been engineering and selling for the last 12 years, or at least the last 6 years, since the introduction of the Retina 15" MacBook Pro which did away with major features and was reviled for doing so when it was released.

My advice for all of those users is to either build a Hackintosh and accept the pitfalls of doing so or build a Windows PC and live with all of its virtues and vices, of which there are many of each. You spend so much time nit-picking and Monday morning quarterbacking Apple's decisions, that you fail to realize that it is Apple's ball, not YOURS.

Thank you for allowing me this short PSA. Have a great day!
I agree, I don't expect Apple to make 'my' dream computer, although they hit the sweet spot in 2015 with the MBP at the time i must say. Best overall computer in our household, even now. I like the Mac Mini (2018) as an update and a nod to the concept of a desktop box, but I think we are just arguing that this Mac Mini is just not 'good enough' as an offering for the cost vs. upgradeability. As for pitfalls of buying a Hackintosh, yes there are a few extra steps which will cost about 2-3 hours of extra work at a minimum: You need to assemble a shopping list from one of the online guides, then you need to enter the parts list onto an online retailer and maybe pay them an extra $50 or so to assemble and deliver it, and then you need to install an OS on it. The cost benefit will depend on how much your own hourly rate of work is, so for most people I think the Mini's price point makes this choice a real one. If money were no object, I definitely would be buying not just one, but three.
[doublepost=1542238526][/doublepost]
You can always add additional storage externally.
In future Apple will be selling a $2000 power cable. A computer can be added externally with very little effort that will result in a very nice user experience.
 
I asked this earlier, but I think it got buried .... can anyone shed some light ?


I have a question - I don't know a lot about processors or cores. I currently have a 2018 15 MBP. It's the 2.6 Intel Core i7 (don't know how many cores) with 16 GB of RAM.

How will this compare to the i5 Mini -
  • 3.0GHz 6-core 8th-generation Intel Core i5 processor
  • Turbo Boost up to 4.1GHz
  • 8GB 2666MHz DDR4 memory
  • Intel UHD Graphics 630
Thanks !
 
I agree, I don't expect Apple to make 'my' dream computer, although they hit the sweet spot in 2015 with the MBP at the time i must say. Best overall computer in our household, even now. I like the Mac Mini (2018) as an update and a nod to the concept of a desktop box, but I think we are just arguing that this Mac Mini is just not 'good enough' as an offering for the cost vs. upgradeability. As for pitfalls of buying a Hackintosh, yes there are a few extra steps which will cost about 2-3 hours of extra work at a minimum: You need to assemble a shopping list from one of the online guides, then you need to enter the parts list onto an online retailer and maybe pay them an extra $50 or so to assemble and deliver it, and then you need to install an OS on it. The cost benefit will depend on how much your own hourly rate of work is, so for most people I think the Mini's price point makes this choice a real one. If money were no object, I definitely would be buying not just one, but three.

Unfortunately, the desktop PC of today is still a compromise machine, no matter how many cores they add to the base CPU, no matter which operating system it runs or who builds it. Cost is a factor, but expensive for one is almost always cheap for another. Just ask yourself which car you would buy, I can almost guarantee that for everyone of us that chooses a Mercedes or Lexus there are an equal number of people who see no value in buying more than a Hyundai or a Mitsubishi. Anyways, I am going off on a tangent.

To keep it economical, Intel is pretty much stuck at x16 lanes of PCIe 3.0 for the CPU. Most modern GPUs still cannot use all of those lanes (at least that is mantra that is repeated over and over), but telling a gamer that he can only have x8 lanes for his RTX 2080 Ti will not go over well. So, instead, all of those lanes go to one or two PCIe slots for one GPU or a 2-x8 SLI/Crossfire. This leaves us with 20 (H370) or 24 (Z390) PCIe lanes to use to our liking for high speed NVMe storage, GbE or 10GbE, SATA, USB 3.1, Thunderbolt 3 (if you can find it, and you sure cannot find more than 1 port), any other PCIe slots on the motherboard. More lanes than yesteryear, but none directly attached to the CPU and the piece de resistance - all of the extra stuff that makes a system go fast BESIDES the GPU gets shoved through and 8GT/s DMI 3.0 bus roughly equivalent to x4 lanes of PCIe 3.0. WAIT, WHAT!!! Thanks, Intel!

This wasn't a big deal even 5 years ago, when SSDs and high speed interconnects were either too expensive or just fanciful notions, but now they are here and they lead to a completely unbalanced system that favors the GPU and penalizes all other subsystems. Apple at least tries to build balanced systems and tests prove that Apple's systems are better all around performers (Linus Tech Tips). Yes, I can provide a link given enough time...

But the only way to truly ensure a truly balanced system is to build one using a CPU that contains a high number of PCIe lanes itself, which are not cheap, have never been cheap and will probably never be cheap. (Core X-series)

The only saving grace heading our way might be PCIe 4.0, but rumors say it will be superseded by PCIe 5.0 fairly soon, before it ever gains traction. However, who knows when Intel will adopt PCIe 4.0 OR PCIe 5.0, as I haven't seen any news or even rumors.

I am typing this on a 2015 15" MacBook Pro 2.8GHz i7/16GB/1TB SSD/AMD M370X and it is a great machine, but it took 3 years and 5 iterations (some minor) to get it right. Along the way, we had GT650M issues that necessitated a Repair program from Apple, display lamination issues, lots of hate for removing the DVD drive, Ethernet port and Firewire 800 and saying Apple made it too thin and people still needed those ports (sound familiar), grumbling about soldered DRAM and the cost of flash storage plus the lack of industry standard replacement solutions (no m.2). I am sure I forgot a few other caveats. Boy, I remember the day of that announcement and the absolute hate and derision aimed at Apple that day. Along with them discontinuing the 17" MacBook Pro.

My point being, no computer is perfect, ever, a few come closer than others to you individually, almost none ever universally, and there are compromises all along the way that we have to endure and that engineers had to work through knowing they could not win. The Mac mini is perfect for me at this time and place. I prefer the soldered storage, because the onus is on Apple to get it right, not on me if I upgrade it to something that doesn't want to work and I lose data because I missed some esoteric issues with the controller. Yes, the prices could be lower and Apple could still profit.

Letting me add my own DRAM is a double edged sword. Apple's prices are too expensive (32GB is nuts), but now I have to make sure I pick the right DRAM and I have done exhaustive research only to still end up with bum DRAM where two sticks (16GB) was fine but 4 sticks together (32GB) was a recipe for kernel panics and random reboots (WTF?!?) The rest is like heaven. 4 TB3 ports, 10GbE optional, HDMI 2.0, two USB A, BT 5.0 and wireless AC, 64GB top capacity, 6c/12t Core i7.

The lack of a dGPU bothers me not one bit, although it would have been nice is Intel would have built special version of these CPUs with Iris Plus, one cannot have it all. All I want is one in my hot little mitts.
 
I ran the same benchmarks on my kit - comparison below for anyone that's interested:

2018-11-13Benchmarks.png
 
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Unfortunately, the desktop PC of today is still a compromise machine, no matter how many cores they add to the base CPU, no matter which operating system it runs or who builds it. Cost is a factor, but expensive for one is almost always cheap for another. Just ask yourself which car you would buy, I can almost guarantee that for everyone of us that chooses a Mercedes or Lexus there are an equal number of people who see no value in buying more than a Hyundai or a Mitsubishi. Anyways, I am going off on a tangent.

To keep it economical, Intel is pretty much stuck at x16 lanes of PCIe 3.0 for the CPU. Most modern GPUs still cannot use all of those lanes (at least that is mantra that is repeated over and over), but telling a gamer that he can only have x8 lanes for his RTX 2080 Ti will not go over well. So, instead, all of those lanes go to one or two PCIe slots for one GPU or a 2-x8 SLI/Crossfire. This leaves us with 20 (H370) or 24 (Z390) PCIe lanes to use to our liking for high speed NVMe storage, GbE or 10GbE, SATA, USB 3.1, Thunderbolt 3 (if you can find it, and you sure cannot find more than 1 port), any other PCIe slots on the motherboard. More lanes than yesteryear, but none directly attached to the CPU and the piece de resistance - all of the extra stuff that makes a system go fast BESIDES the GPU gets shoved through and 8GT/s DMI 3.0 bus roughly equivalent to x4 lanes of PCIe 3.0. WAIT, WHAT!!! Thanks, Intel!

This wasn't a big deal even 5 years ago, when SSDs and high speed interconnects were either too expensive or just fanciful notions, but now they are here and they lead to a completely unbalanced system that favors the GPU and penalizes all other subsystems. Apple at least tries to build balanced systems and tests prove that Apple's systems are better all around performers (Linus Tech Tips). Yes, I can provide a link given enough time...

But the only way to truly ensure a truly balanced system is to build one using a CPU that contains a high number of PCIe lanes itself, which are not cheap, have never been cheap and will probably never be cheap. (Core X-series)

The only saving grace heading our way might be PCIe 4.0, but rumors say it will be superseded by PCIe 5.0 fairly soon, before it ever gains traction. However, who knows when Intel will adopt PCIe 4.0 OR PCIe 5.0, as I haven't seen any news or even rumors.

I am typing this on a 2015 15" MacBook Pro 2.8GHz i7/16GB/1TB SSD/AMD M370X and it is a great machine, but it took 3 years and 5 iterations (some minor) to get it right. Along the way, we had GT650M issues that necessitated a Repair program from Apple, display lamination issues, lots of hate for removing the DVD drive, Ethernet port and Firewire 800 and saying Apple made it too thin and people still needed those ports (sound familiar), grumbling about soldered DRAM and the cost of flash storage plus the lack of industry standard replacement solutions (no m.2). I am sure I forgot a few other caveats. Boy, I remember the day of that announcement and the absolute hate and derision aimed at Apple that day. Along with them discontinuing the 17" MacBook Pro.

My point being, no computer is perfect, ever, a few come closer than others to you individually, almost none ever universally, and there are compromises all along the way that we have to endure and that engineers had to work through knowing they could not win. The Mac mini is perfect for me at this time and place. I prefer the soldered storage, because the onus is on Apple to get it right, not on me if I upgrade it to something that doesn't want to work and I lose data because I missed some esoteric issues with the controller. Yes, the prices could be lower and Apple could still profit.

Letting me add my own DRAM is a double edged sword. Apple's prices are too expensive (32GB is nuts), but now I have to make sure I pick the right DRAM and I have done exhaustive research only to still end up with bum DRAM where two sticks (16GB) was fine but 4 sticks together (32GB) was a recipe for kernel panics and random reboots (WTF?!?) The rest is like heaven. 4 TB3 ports, 10GbE optional, HDMI 2.0, two USB A, BT 5.0 and wireless AC, 64GB top capacity, 6c/12t Core i7.

The lack of a dGPU bothers me not one bit, although it would have been nice is Intel would have built special version of these CPUs with Iris Plus, one cannot have it all. All I want is one in my hot little mitts.
So lesson is, wait a couple of years and the Mini will be perfect (after the Mini's equivalent of some delamination issues - maybe heat problems?, a repair program or two, and so forth). I know the problem with anything is bottlenecks and Apple has its own philosophy for that, which I respect (sometimes), but the car analogy for me applies more to the laptop market. The desktop market you already chose the body for the car and are deciding on what engine to put in it. The Mini is pretty to look at, but I don't go out of my way to look behind the monitor or desk to admire its appearance. Looks are not important here, performance and cable hell are, which is why externalising storage and GPU's are a big turn off.
 
You can see a video run through of it's general performance below too. It's still processing so should be live very soon.

 
The starting price of the "entry level Mac" is now 2x as much as the prior gen was. It's no longer an option for someone wanting a low-priced Mac.
 
The starting price of the "entry level Mac" is now 2x as much as the prior gen was. It's no longer an option for someone wanting a low-priced Mac.

Apple is no longer pricing their equipment realistically. They are pricing as if they are a boutique brand. $100 wireless keyboards, $800 iPads, $1500 iPhones, $800 i3 desktops.

Low priced Mac is an oxymoron now more than ever.

I wonder if, and when, the house of cards will fall?
 
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And the i5 8600 is a more powerful CPU by a great margin. Given the fact that Apple mentioned clustering these together, the Vega M would be wasted in that configuration. This machine is not meant to be a graphics powerhouse. This machine is meant to be a compact computing appliance.

You have an interesting definition of "great margin". User benchmarks show about 6% increase in single core and slightly better in multi-core applications [1]. Tell me, what percentage of users are going to cluster mac minis vs the average home user that is going to edit videos and play games? The graphics performance is pitiful as it is, and that affects the majority of the users that will buy the machine.

References:
[1] https://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-Core-i7-8809G-vs-Intel-Core-i5-8600/m422264vsm477251
 
Have you found 32GB SoDimms?
I have had no problem finding dual 16 GB SoDIMMS to get to 32 GB; but have not found anything larger. And I fully agree with your statment, you can save substantially by buying dual 16 GB SoDIMMs DDR4 at 2666 for ~$300 at Amazon or Newegg.
Believe there are 4 DIMM slots on the board. Please correct me if I am wrong.

There is only 2 slots. That means Apple has probably sourced early release 32GB SO-DIMMs. Believe Samsung was talking about these in their pipeline a few months ago.
 
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I asked this earlier, but I think it got buried .... can anyone shed some light ?


I have a question - I don't know a lot about processors or cores. I currently have a 2018 15 MBP. It's the 2.6 Intel Core i7 (don't know how many cores) with 16 GB of RAM.

How will this compare to the i5 Mini -
  • 3.0GHz 6-core 8th-generation Intel Core i5 processor
  • Turbo Boost up to 4.1GHz
  • 8GB 2666MHz DDR4 memory
  • Intel UHD Graphics 630
Thanks !

Your MBP has an Intel Core i7 with six cores and 12 threads (specs) where as the i5 in the mac mini has six cores and six threads (specs), thus your MBP CPU should be slightly better than the mini for most things (despite the difference in the clock speed) on paper. The biggest difference is the CPU in the MBP is a mobile chip where as the mini has a desktop chip (which means the mini will most likely edge out the MBP in its raw performance). Of course your MBP has more memory but slightly slower clock speeds (which does matter in RAM). As for the GPU, It depends on what graphics card you purchased with your MBP, so it could be the same as the mini's to a much better dGPU.
 
Would surprises me if even with an SSD, it's still the same size, noticeably..

You still have all that space at the back with an Eithernet port closer to the top.


If you can get the vent there at the bottom, you can remove most of the space as well
, due to SSD smaller form factor..
.

Extra ventilation?
 
You can see a video run through of it's general performance below too. It's still processing so should be live very soon.


Excellent video of performance as that is my use case for a new mini as a hypervisor.

It would be much appreciated if you could run Zwift on it and does it keep up from a graphics perspective.
 
The port selection is probably the most exciting thing about this update (sans SD card slot).
No proper user-upgradable RAM unlike the previous 2012 model with handy twistie base, and integrated graphics across the entire range.
No affordable version, either.

Innovation has truly left the Mac as Apple marches towards iOS.
 
While I continue to mull over which 2018 mini configuration I am likely to order, I'm trying to steel myself for the disruption of my present long-time configuration around my mid-2010 mini which I'm still working with.

Some of the components of my present hardware and software:

Mac mini (Mid 2010)
2.66 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
8 GB 1067 MHz DDR3
NVIDIA GeForce 320M 256 MB

iSight:
Model: 0x8

Brother HL-L6200DW series 2
Brother MFC-J6920DW


Macintosh HD:
Available: 162.9 GB (162,896,732,160 bytes)
Capacity: 499.25 GB (499,248,103,424 bytes)

USB2.0 Hub:
Product ID: 0x0608
Speed: Up to 480 Mb/sec

Desktop
Vendor ID: 0x0bc2 (Seagate LLC)
Version: 1.46
Speed: Up to 480 Mb/sec
Manufacturer: Seagate

Desktop:
Capacity: 3 TB (3,000,592,973,824 bytes)
Partition Map Type: GPT (GUID Partition Table)

disk1s1:
Capacity: 209.7 MB (209,715,200 bytes)
BSD Name: disk1s1
Content: EFI
____ HD:
Capacity: 3 TB (3,000,248,995,840 bytes)
1.33 TB (1,334,556,819,456 bytes)
Writable: Yes
File System: Journaled HFS+

SES084D:
Product ID: 0x1836
Speed: Up to 480 Mb/sec

Macally 2.4G Wireless Mouse:
Product ID: 0x310
Version: 0.01
Speed: Up to 1.5 Mb/sec

So, it seems to me that what I am looking at is ditching all my external HDs, USB hubs, iSight webcam, the whole works and pretty much starting from scratch. I have three external platter HDs (1T, 2T, and 3T), but they are all, AFAIK, just USB1 or USB2 connected drives.

Anyone with an opinion on whether I am looking at a total overhaul, or whether some of these legacy HDs, etc. can be salvaged?
 
Believe there are 4 DIMM slots on the board. Please correct me if I am wrong.

There's only 2.
[doublepost=1542270645][/doublepost]
Excellent video of performance as that is my use case for a new mini as a hypervisor.

It would be much appreciated if you could run Zwift on it and does it keep up from a graphics perspective.

Well, Zwift works fine on my 2014 Mac Mini - tbh that's all it gets used for now!
 
Apple could have not played it safe on this and used AMD Ryzen 5 with Vega 11 Graphics to create a best seller. Just the curiosity factor alone would have generated a ton of sales. But under Cook, they no longer think different.
 
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Your MBP has an Intel Core i7 with six cores and 12 threads (specs) where as the i5 in the mac mini has six cores and six threads (specs), thus your MBP CPU should be slightly better than the mini for most things (despite the difference in the clock speed) on paper. The biggest difference is the CPU in the MBP is a mobile chip where as the mini has a desktop chip (which means the mini will most likely edge out the MBP in its raw performance). Of course your MBP has more memory but slightly slower clock speeds (which does matter in RAM). As for the GPU, It depends on what graphics card you purchased with your MBP, so it could be the same as the mini's to a much better dGPU.

Thanks! That explains a lot !
 
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