Hands-On With macOS Catalina

[techfreak23]

They have been telling you that if you have Mojave. Every time you launch a 32-bit app in Mojave, it tells you that support will end soon.

The real question is this – WHY END 32-BIT SUPPORT??

What, exactly, do I gain by going through the hassle of upgrading to a new OS that throws away 32-bit apps? The ability to make an iPad a second monitor? The ability to run phone apps on my $6,000 Mac Pro????

**** me.

32-bit apps running in a 64-bit environment are actually a draw on resources since the OS has to load the 32-bit frameworks each time you open a 32-bit app. It's been a long time coming, but my point was that average people who are not aware of these things or don't understand the warnings in the last two versions of macOS that tell you the app you're launching will not be supported in a future version will inevitably complain. They will say Apple is corrupt for breaking their long-used apps and forcing to upgrade versions or pay for alternatives. It would save them future headaches by simply pulling up a list of the apps that will break BEFORE they go through with the upgrade to Catalina.
[doublepost=1559801269][/doublepost]

You do not need this. Just click on the Apple symbol in the upper left of the screen then About This Mac / System Report / Software / Applications
There all Apps are listed and you can sort for 64-Bit all others are 32-Bit and will not work after update...

lol you expect the average user knows about this list or even understands the difference between 32-bit and 64-bit apps. All the majority of people will know is that the apps they have used for years are no longer working after the install. The point here is that if they can show the list immediately after you do the install, why can't they show it before going through with it? It would save them the inevitable headaches once it becomes public, especially since they bug you at every turn to upgrade once it goes public.
[doublepost=1559801358][/doublepost]

Your name betrays you.

Everyone who likes tech has known for years.
macOS has told you on previous versions about their deprecation.

Yes, I know it has been warning people, and I am not one that would catch by surprise. I mostly said that for the every day users that are not aware of these things or cannot even comprehend what those warnings mean. I worked for an Authorized Service Provider and Retailer for 3.5 years, and I cannot tell you how many people do not even read some of the popups that come up on their devices... I am waiting for the day of the public release because you will see these people complain that their old apps no longer work...
[doublepost=1559801663][/doublepost]

What would be helpful, for non-techies who don’t know the difference between 32- and 64-bit, is if the installer warned you *before* you install Catalina which apps will no longer work, so that you could decide if you want to go through with the upgrade or not (or if there is some app you can’t/don’t want to do without).

You worded this better than I did. Some people were responding to my comment about it in snarky ways, like I was unaware of the fact that the current OS warns you when opening a 32-bit app that it won't be supported in the future, or that you can see the full list in the Apple menu. Some people just don't understand that a lot of people that use computers nowadays have no idea what 32-bit vs 64-bit means, nor do they read everything their devices try to tell them. All they will know is that their favorite apps or apps they use for business will cease to function after upgrading. It would prevent a lot of headaches for Apple if they just popped up a list of apps that will break upon upgrading.

 

[Romeo_Nightfall]

I am loving Sidecar! I think the freaks that like Surface have had this already. However, when Apple deploys something they always do a better job. So far it's running smoothly for me.

Yes a remote display solution with a 2nd device is far better than an integrated solution with one device.
Please tell me who is the freak and which approach seems more clever?!

 

[Bokito]

I played around with it for a few days and Catalina looks promising. From a technological standpoint it's the new Snow Leopard. Lots of new Frameworks, Libraries and features build for the feature with a lot of legacy removed (32-bit, QTKit). *

The overall interface feels very snappy, certainly better than High Sierra and Mojave. Although it's very fast, I've never seen so many bugs in a DP1. Most of them aren't killing for a DP1, but they range from misaligned buttons to repeated alerts.

The music app can do EVERYTHING iTunes was able to do previously (limited to music). They even build up some of the assets the same inside the app although it's a a completely new app. Things the music app retained some people were afraid of losing:
- CD rips
- Visual effects
- iTunes Store (yep!)
- iTunes Match (hoorah)

System preferences got an overhaul that more resembles the iOS Preferences structure with a center stage for iCloud and accounts on the top.

Apple changed the default shell from Bash to Zsh. For most users that won't be a problem, for power users it might take some time to migrate their scripts over time, but Bash can still be used for the time being.

I don't get why they brought iDevice syncing to the finder and didn't include it in a separate app. Now the finder is getting bloated. The Finder is an app for accessing files on your file system. About the only thing you don't do on an iDevice is.... right.

Safari brought in some more restrictions for websites (like having a setting for allowing downloads on a website), but also brought over some new features (some of them that are already available for some time in Safari TP) like screen sharing.

Unsigned apps can still be used and installed. Apps that are only signed and not notarized will not run with a message that they are broken (that's a change that came in very fast, maybe too fast).

* It looks like this is the kind of OS Apple had to make in order to make the Mac's transition to ARM smooth. Although the past transitions (PPC to 32-bit Intel, 32-bit Intel to 64-bit) were pretty smooth there was quite some work for even the most basic apps. It seems that if developers don't rely on 3th-party languages or aged frameworks you should be able to run complex apps that run well in Catalina just fine on ARM Macs. Developers would then only need to recompile them for native support without additional work. The only major developer that's likely getting in trouble with the ARM transition is Adobe.

 

[jonblatho]

“Notably, macOS Catalina does away with 32-bit app support, so some of your older apps are going to stop working. The operating system will let you know which apps are now defunct once you upgrade.”
Why can’t they tell you BEFORE you do the upgrade...? Time Machine does the same thing with backups it deletes. It tells you AFTER it deletes them...

Funny how much a quick Google search can tell you.

 

[techfreak23]

Funny how much a quick Google search can tell you.

I'm not going to repeat myself again. GTFO of here with that.

 

[Romeo_Nightfall]

I played around with it for a few days and Catalina looks promising. From a technological standpoint it's the new Snow Leopard. Lots of new Frameworks, Libraries and features build for the feature with a lot of legacy removed (32-bit, QTKit). *

The overall interface feels very snappy, certainly better than High Sierra and Mojave. Although it's very fast, I've never seen so many bugs in a DP1. Most of them aren't killing for a DP1, but they range from misaligned buttons to repeated alerts.

The music app can do EVERYTHING iTunes was able to do previously (limited to music). They even build up some of the assets the same inside the app although it's a a completely new app. Things the music app retained some people were afraid of losing:
- CD rips
- Visual effects
- iTunes Store (yep!)
- iTunes Match (hoorah)

System preferences got an overhaul that more resembles the iOS Preferences structure with a center stage for iCloud and accounts on the top.

Apple changed the default shell from Bash to Zsh. For most users that won't be a problem, for power users it might take some time to migrate their scripts over time, but Bash can still be used for the time being.

I don't get why they brought iDevice syncing to the finder and didn't include it in a separate app. Now the finder is getting bloated. The Finder is an app for accessing files on your file system. About the only thing you don't do on an iDevice is.... right.

Safari brought in some more restrictions for websites (like having a setting for allowing downloads on a website), but also brought over some new features (some of them that are already available for some time in Safari TP) like screen sharing.

Unsigned apps can still be used and installed. Apps that are only signed and not notarized will not run with a message that they are broken (that's a change that came in very fast, maybe too fast).

* It looks like this is the kind of OS Apple had to make in order to make the Mac's transition to ARM smooth. Although the past transitions (PPC to 32-bit Intel, 32-bit Intel to 64-bit) were pretty smooth there was quite some work for even the most basic apps. It seems that if developers don't rely on 3th-party languages or aged frameworks you should be able to run complex apps that run well in Catalina just fine on ARM Macs. Developers would then only need to recompile them for native support without additional work. The only major developer that's likely getting in trouble with the ARM transition is Adobe.

Thank You for that!
One small correction, finder is for finding files anywhere, iCLOUD, and now your other devices too, that is consistent and logical!

 

[urbanmacUser]

“Notably, macOS Catalina does away with 32-bit app support, so some of your older apps are going to stop working. The operating system will let you know which apps are now defunct once you upgrade.”
Why can’t they tell you BEFORE you do the upgrade...? Time Machine does the same thing with backups it deletes. It tells you AFTER it deletes them...

It does tell you, the report is wrong. I got a warning message about Chicken VNC

 

[techfreak23]

It does tell you, the report is wrong. I got a warning message about Chicken VNC

You got that before you did the upgrade?

 

[urbanmacUser]

You got that before you did the upgrade?

Yes, I have a screenshot, will post later

 

[techfreak23]

Yes, I have a screenshot, will post later

Interesting. I'm surprised MacRumors missed that. Maybe they already didn't have any 32-bit apps loaded. It would make a lot more sense for Apple to cover their a**es by adding such a simple popup right before a user goes through with the upgrade.

 

[urbanmacUser]

At installation I saw this, I cancelled the installer and checked and these apps were 32bit.

 

[techfreak23]

At installation I saw this, I cancelled the installer and checked and these apps were 32bit.

View attachment 841180

That's good to know. You should forward this screenshot to the folks at MacRumors so that they can update this post with more accurate information. All I got from my initial comment were some smart a** responses about where to go look for the list. People completely missed the point I was trying to make, but it looks like Apple covered it after all.

 

[dan9700]

They didnt talk about speed improvements and the one thing I wanted was using my stereo homepods as main output as audio out not just in music and they still cant do it

 

[simon the diver]

There is missing functionality in the new way of handling music and audio content at this stage. We still have several months before this is released and it’s always possible that it will be put back in.

There are two main areas of missing functionality.

First, the ability to drag and drop music has been removed. This will be an area of concern for anyone who used the manual manage music option. Currently, with iTunes, it’s possible to drag files either within iTunes onto the device, or from the finder directly onto device in the iTunes sidebar.

In the new music/finder paradigm, responsibility for transferring music to the device has shifted to Finder. Ironically, given Finder works by dragging and dropping files, it is not possible to drag-and-drop music on the device on the sidebar and the only apparent way to get music onto the device is to turn on sync. This means anyone with multiple macs will be restricted to only one Mac being able to add music. A big loss.

The bigger problem is audiobooks. Forget the old debate about audio content being moved to a reading app, we lost that one a few years ago when APPLE decided thats how things should work on iOS. However, currently, you cannot add your own audiobooks to the Books app. Also, unlike the Music app , there is nowhere in Books to specify where you want your content to be stored. My audio collection is larger than my internal SSD and is stored on the external drive. If I added my audiobook collection to the Books app then my SSD would be full. Books Does not have an option for where to store content. It would need a preference for storing audio content. This would need to be a separate location to ebook content storage, otherwise you books would be offline without your external drive.

Also of note, Finder will not preview a .m4b file. You get an animation but it just spins with no preview.

This is a beta and I’m not a hater, just someone who likes to manually manage his music and has a large audiobook and audio play collection not purchased from apple.

Initial looks at the new music app is that it’s pretty and that making it just a music player is ok but it’s not okay to mess up device management along the way

Still it’s early days

 

[Pakaku]

Under Tim Cook, all the latest MacOS updates have been bean counter updates, which machines to not support to encourage new Mac sales while offering less and less new features while deleting old ones willy nilly. so now I have to get rid of all my 32 bit apps for nor particular reason? I think not. It's about time that people stand up to this computer authoritarianism.

I mean, I don't think any of my Mac games are 64 bit. I'm not throwing away stuff I paid for just because Timmy thinks it's a great new feature. I didn't like it when Steve Jobs did it either, but he always had something cool enough to weigh in favor or it. Not so with bean counter Timmy.

Okay then, don't upgrade. There is no authoritarian power forcing you to.

 

[dan9700]

Would apple ever allow airplay 2 as main output for stereo homepods as a macos main audio out not just in music?

 

[Wando64]

My main concern is what will be REMOVED with the new update. I am on Sierra now with my 2013 MBP and Hackintosh, with my trusty 2007 MBP running El Cap.

My business requires Microsoft, despite my best attempts to convert the office to LibreOffice. We do enough Powerpoint that we need the real deal to be compatible with our circle of partners.

I need to see if I can get my hands on a 64 bit version of Office 2011 Mac. I do not want 2013 or 2016 or 365. The newer Offices are slow and crummy. I responded to company requests to move to 2016, and most of those people asked me to move them back to Office 2010 Windows.

I really wish Sidecar could be backported to Sierra.

Most importantly, Diablo II is 32 bit. Deal breaker.

Cyberdoc

You better move up to Mojave while you can.
As much as I loved Sierra, that’s what I have recently done.
Not long until it will be out of support.

 

[where is it]

Under Tim Cook, all the latest MacOS updates have been bean counter updates, which machines to not support to encourage new Mac sales while offering less and less new features while deleting old ones willy nilly. so now I have to get rid of all my 32 bit apps for nor particular reason? I think not. It's about time that people stand up to this computer authoritarianism.

I mean, I don't think any of my Mac games are 64 bit. I'm not throwing away stuff I paid for just because Timmy thinks it's a great new feature. I didn't like it when Steve Jobs did it either, but he always had something cool enough to weigh in favor or it. Not so with bean counter Timmy.

Totally agree with this, I have thousands of pounds worth of software, bought over many years, invested and working perfectly. Mostly 32bit, some never updated and abandoned by developers. One good example is Adobe Dreamweaver, the latest versions are not compatible with legacy extensions which are vital to making a living. Is it right that one should relearn a new path to achieve was was perfect before?

On the flipside, Windows 10 has been a revelation. A lot of software that became incompatible with MacOS in the past, I recently discovered has downloadable Windows counterparts for free. Installing these has given a second life to a whole host of legacy software. Productive once again.

I really don't enjoy where Apple is going these days. Unless you are in a few creative camps of the likes of Music, Video or Software development then the noose is slowly tightening to web browsing, face-timing and consuming media. It won't be too many versions of Mac OS until they disallow any 3rd party apps unless from the App Store and the whole creative process becomes a free to download Ad filled fragmented process of disillusionment.

 

[Wando64]

32-bit apps running in a 64-bit environment are actually a draw on resources since the OS has to load the 32-bit frameworks each time you open a 32-bit app.

So what?
How is this damaging anyone or anything or stopping Apple from doing anything else?

A warning (like the one you get in Mojave) would have been quite sufficient IMO.

 

[partsofspeech]

The relative lack of new features makes me hopeful that the .0 release of this will be as solid as 10.14 was. That is, I expect Catalina to just be refinement of Mojave. Maybe we will even see some performance improvements over earlier OS's.

No features? Lol. For iPad user, Sidecar is a great breakthrough.
[doublepost=1559808673][/doublepost]

I played around with it for a few days and Catalina looks promising. From a technological standpoint it's the new Snow Leopard. Lots of new Frameworks, Libraries and features build for the feature with a lot of legacy removed (32-bit, QTKit). *

The overall interface feels very snappy, certainly better than High Sierra and Mojave. Although it's very fast, I've never seen so many bugs in a DP1. Most of them aren't killing for a DP1, but they range from misaligned buttons to repeated alerts.

The music app can do EVERYTHING iTunes was able to do previously (limited to music). They even build up some of the assets the same inside the app although it's a a completely new app. Things the music app retained some people were afraid of losing:
- CD rips
- Visual effects
- iTunes Store (yep!)
- iTunes Match (hoorah)

System preferences got an overhaul that more resembles the iOS Preferences structure with a center stage for iCloud and accounts on the top.

Apple changed the default shell from Bash to Zsh. For most users that won't be a problem, for power users it might take some time to migrate their scripts over time, but Bash can still be used for the time being.

I don't get why they brought iDevice syncing to the finder and didn't include it in a separate app. Now the finder is getting bloated. The Finder is an app for accessing files on your file system. About the only thing you don't do on an iDevice is.... right.

Safari brought in some more restrictions for websites (like having a setting for allowing downloads on a website), but also brought over some new features (some of them that are already available for some time in Safari TP) like screen sharing.

Unsigned apps can still be used and installed. Apps that are only signed and not notarized will not run with a message that they are broken (that's a change that came in very fast, maybe too fast).

* It looks like this is the kind of OS Apple had to make in order to make the Mac's transition to ARM smooth. Although the past transitions (PPC to 32-bit Intel, 32-bit Intel to 64-bit) were pretty smooth there was quite some work for even the most basic apps. It seems that if developers don't rely on 3th-party languages or aged frameworks you should be able to run complex apps that run well in Catalina just fine on ARM Macs. Developers would then only need to recompile them for native support without additional work. The only major developer that's likely getting in trouble with the ARM transition is Adobe.

Do you spot any special functions for tapping unique potentials of T2 chip, which I guess is ARM?

 

[urbanmacUser]

Well this is odd, App Store (not software update) says I have am Sierra update available.

 

[Marx55]

Version of Time Machine in macOS 10.15 Catalina? Time Machine 2? Does it support APFS disks?

 

[ivan86]

I would use Apple Mail exclusively if it had the same ability as Outlook for Mac to separate my emails by day received. Sucks scrolling and scrolling to find a day an email was received.

Sort by Date is the default view I use in Apple Mail and it literally takes seconds to find an email which was sent at a particular day months or even years ago. You can always create a Smart Mailbox, where for example emails from last 2 weeks show up etc.

I am so glad that I do not have to use Outlook anymore at all. Today in fact for many Windows users who are not heavily invested into Outlook and use it basically for basic email tasks I recommend to simply use the web browser. This works well for those who use gmail and gsuite emails only with some other private mailbox. It is easy to setup conveniently and with apps like Fluid simply create an “app” thats just always there and open. Having all mailboxes set up on a smartphone basically guarantees that you do not miss that important email... Outlook is ok for Windows users, but on macOS I am yet to meet a person who would need it over Apple Mail for it’s functionality.
[doublepost=1559812603][/doublepost]

Well this is odd, App Store (not software update) says I have am Sierra update available.
View attachment 841195

Go for it

 

[dan9700]

But it can't output audio to stereo homepods

I played around with it for a few days and Catalina looks promising. From a technological standpoint it's the new Snow Leopard. Lots of new Frameworks, Libraries and features build for the feature with a lot of legacy removed (32-bit, QTKit). *

The overall interface feels very snappy, certainly better than High Sierra and Mojave. Although it's very fast, I've never seen so many bugs in a DP1. Most of them aren't killing for a DP1, but they range from misaligned buttons to repeated alerts.

The music app can do EVERYTHING iTunes was able to do previously (limited to music). They even build up some of the assets the same inside the app although it's a a completely new app. Things the music app retained some people were afraid of losing:
- CD rips
- Visual effects
- iTunes Store (yep!)
- iTunes Match (hoorah)

System preferences got an overhaul that more resembles the iOS Preferences structure with a center stage for iCloud and accounts on the top.

Apple changed the default shell from Bash to Zsh. For most users that won't be a problem, for power users it might take some time to migrate their scripts over time, but Bash can still be used for the time being.

I don't get why they brought iDevice syncing to the finder and didn't include it in a separate app. Now the finder is getting bloated. The Finder is an app for accessing files on your file system. About the only thing you don't do on an iDevice is.... right.

Safari brought in some more restrictions for websites (like having a setting for allowing downloads on a website), but also brought over some new features (some of them that are already available for some time in Safari TP) like screen sharing.

Unsigned apps can still be used and installed. Apps that are only signed and not notarized will not run with a message that they are broken (that's a change that came in very fast, maybe too fast).

* It looks like this is the kind of OS Apple had to make in order to make the Mac's transition to ARM smooth. Although the past transitions (PPC to 32-bit Intel, 32-bit Intel to 64-bit) were pretty smooth there was quite some work for even the most basic apps. It seems that if developers don't rely on 3th-party languages or aged frameworks you should be able to run complex apps that run well in Catalina just fine on ARM Macs. Developers would then only need to recompile them for native support without additional work. The only major developer that's likely getting in trouble with the ARM transition is Adobe.

 

[ScooterComputer]

Interesting… no mention that MacOS now runs isolated from a separate read-only APFS partition (according to the Catalina New Features page). That’s like iOS, and the most significant change to how the underlying os works!