Hands-On With the New Apple TV: An Overview of Siri and Search

[nebo1ss]

Amazon have stopped selling Apple TV on their site, if you search for it you won't find it and if you Google, "Amazon Apple TV" any links that are shown are dead ends.

If you follow tech news you'll have seen that Amazon stopped selling Apple TV and Chromecast, their two main rival streaming platforms. You can read more on this from early October, here on the Verge.

Apple have publicly said that they welcome "one and all" to develop apps for the new Apple TV but with Amazon pushing their own Fire TV Stick and Fire TV box they are simply not supporting other platforms as they feel their streaming service can fuel sales of their own hardware. Fair enough, that's their decision.

However anyone blaming Apple for the lack of an Amazon streaming app is wrong, it's nothing to do with Apple. This is entirely Amazon's doing.

There has to be a lot more to this than we are aware off. Amazon is a successful business and will be looking to increase their profit at all times. If they provided an app on the Apple TV this will make their service available to an increase group of users and be good for them. However, the fact that they have not provided one and seem reluctant to provide one suggest to me that they have not been able to negotiate an agreement with Apple that is acceptable to them.

Of course Apple will say that anyone is free to provide an app on the store and I am sure this is mostly true. However, Netflix is Amazon competitor in this space and I am sure if they were given the same terms as Netflix they would develop an app.

This will surely be worked out in time but I rather suspect it is Apple that is going to have to make the compromise on whatever it is that is preventing Amazon from moving forward.

 

[Boomish69]

It's just iTunes content. I couldn't get my not purchased from iTunes content to pull up with Siri or search. Big disipointment. Makes Siri a lot less useful for me.

oh your joking, I've ordered mine I currently use Plex and iTunes with my own content (who doesn't?) how are Apple so out of touch about how people use the ATV..Well I can always return it & wait for the official Plex app.

Why don't you suggest this to Apple TV Feedback? Apple might include that if enough new Apple TV users suggest it!

but it's no brainer isn't it, how come the vast majority here expect the Remote app to work and Apple didn't check this? what planet are they on that not 1 person in Apple didn't think to update the app to work with the new TV, thats I would say most of use with the existing ATV!
or how about getting Siri to work with people's own content, absolutely crazy Apple release half product and think we will lap it up, mine will be going straight back.

 

[Rasasu]

hey guys, my dell monitor doesn't have HDMI-CEC. basically my remote can only pause or play the movie. I can't adjust the volume up and down button. If I manage to get a bluetooth speaker connected to apple tv, Can I use the apple tv remote to control the volume of the bluetooth speaker. Can anyone give me some idea how to overcome this HDMI-CEC problem.

 

[RebornProphet]

There has to be a lot more to this than we are aware off. Amazon is a successful business and will be looking to increase their profit at all times. If they provided an app on the Apple TV this will make their service available to an increase group of users and be good for them. However, the fact that they have not provided one and seem reluctant to provide one suggest to me that they have not been able to negotiate an agreement with Apple that is acceptable to them.

Of course Apple will say that anyone is free to provide an app on the store and I am sure this is mostly true. However, Netflix is Amazon competitor in this space and I am sure if they were given the same terms as Netflix they would develop an app.

This will surely be worked out in time but I rather suspect it is Apple that is going to have to make the compromise on whatever it is that is preventing Amazon from moving forward.

Or maybe it's people looking past the obvious for something that isn't there. There's no hidden agenda by Apple, Amazon stopped selling rival hardware round about the same time they began pushing their own (Fire Stick and Fire Box). Amazon want to become a major player in streaming in their own right. Yes an Apple TV app may well bring them more streaming customers but I don't know many people who want to pay £89 or whatever it is up front for streaming when Netflix offers it for £5.99 a month. Netflix also don't do hardware, so your point about Netflix is rendered utterly redundant. It's the same as video gaming, you don't get Halo on PlayStation or Mario on Xbox, as these are reasons to sell your own hardware. Amazon want their service and its content to be the reason you buy their hardware and subscribe to their service. It's that simple.

 

[mrklaw]

Or maybe it's people looking past the obvious for something that isn't there. There's no hidden agenda by Apple, Amazon stopped selling rival hardware round about the same time they began pushing their own (Fire Stick and Fire Box). Amazon want to become a major player in streaming in their own right. Yes an Apple TV app may well bring them more streaming customers but I don't know many people who want to pay £89 or whatever it is up front for streaming when Netflix offers it for £5.99 a month. Netflix also don't do hardware, so your point about Netflix is rendered utterly redundant. It's the same as video gaming, you don't get Halo on PlayStation or Mario on Xbox, as these are reasons to sell your own hardware. Amazon want their service and its content to be the reason you buy their hardware and subscribe to their service. It's that simple.

I have prime mainly for the free shipping but some of the shows on there are good - like community. I'd say for streaming our house is a roughly 50:50 split between Netflix and Amazon prime. So no Amazon app is a big loss. Although we can use the Xbox so not a showstopper, but then you lose universal search if you have to start checking Apple TV and Xbox. If plex adds Siri voice search then I'll probably buy an Apple TV and if Amazon don't bring an app within 6-9 months when my prime runs out I might consider ditching it.

 

[candle]

noch nur zehn achtzig

 

[azentropy]

However anyone blaming Apple for the lack of an Amazon streaming app is wrong, it's nothing to do with Apple. This is entirely Amazon's doing.

Unless you have insider information that is just your opinion. Mine is that Amazon is trying to move to a more unified app and also wants to be able to sell from their app (rentals, purchases), not just it be a "player" of the streaming video service and they simply haven't been able to come to terms yet. That is the key difference between Netflix and Hulu and Amazon Primes. Streaming a catalog is just one of their offerings.

Without knowing those negotiations you can't really assign blame. If Apple is sticking to their 30% than I can fully understand why Amazon won't do that. Either they would have to sell/rent for more than competing products or they would take a larger margin hit (and possibly lose money). If Apple is waving all of it than yes Amazon is to blame. My guess it is somewhere in the middle and right now BOTH are to be blamed. As a customer I'd be perfectly happy if they just offered a "player" version of their catalog and video you have already purchased or rented. Again though, I don't think Amazon wants to do that. They also recently discontinued support of their app that is on my LG LW5600 "Smart TVs" purchased about 4.5 years ago I think for that same reason.

 

[size06]

Hm srsly is there anything positive about the new Apple tv ? I've never owned a streaming device and I thought this one would be a great start but the only thing I can see here is negative posts about this device.
So it seems to me it would be better to buy another device like the fire tv..

 

[Jal217]

I'm not sure if you mean it some other way, but Siri is already on the Apple Watch, she just doesn't respond with voice feedback. You simply hold down the Digital Crown to access her, or raise your wrist to the watch face and say "Hey Siri," followed by your query.

I'm pretty sure he meant that she's not as fast on the watch. When asking Siri something she can do on the tv it's inexplicable how fast she is. It's instant. Opening an app for instance is much faster than it is on a phone with siri

I'm not sure if you mean it some other way, but Siri is already on the Apple Watch, she just doesn't respond with voice feedback. You simply hold down the Digital Crown to access her, or raise your wrist to the watch face and say "Hey Siri," followed by your query.

I'm pretty sure he meant that she's not as fast on the watch. When asking Siri something she can do on the tv it's actually inexplicable how much faster she is than how she is on the phone or watch. It's instant

 

[diegogaja]

Everything is still navigable without Siri. Like iOS it's just there if you want to make things easier.

It works well on the TV and I'm confident you're wrong (do you even own one?).
People have been "talking to a box" for years now. Phones, tablets, now watch and a tv remote. I'm pretty sure Apple TV is. Not the first voice activated remote control.
I'm sure the Apple Watch and iOS apps will be released soon. Disappointing that it wasn't ready for the Apple TV release? Yes.

Of course this isn't the future of tv that Jobs worked out. But he was never able to make it come to pass. Not because of something he and eventually Cook decided. It was what they can't control...the broadcast and cable deals. Those companies won't release their stranglehold on their business model.

I think this may be the future of tv. I see this device as more of a foundation to build out further services and broadcast accessibility.

I think it was a mistake to put so much importance on Siri.

I'm confident that almost everyone will not use Siri for interacting with the Apple TV, because it's innately unnatural to speak to a box. You would have thought that Apple would have built an app for the Apple Watch that allows you to flick through TV stations. That's another big flaw with Cook's thinking about TV: apps are not the right medium for TV; channels are. It's much quicker pressing a button once to get to another station than it is to close an app, open another app and navigate to the station you want.

I don't think this is the future of TV that Steve Jobs worked out; it seems too slow and clunky. Surely, the ideal TV interface would be customised to show all your favourite content accessible with one tap, and that content would include all non-iTunes content, live TV and cable together with iTunes. There would be no logging in whatsoever, as the TV would sync log-in details via iCloud from your iPhone, iPad, Apple Watch or Mac.

 

[Alte22a]

My Bluetooth Keyboard doesn't work, hopefully this will be sorted by the next update.

 

[Rasasu]

hey guys, my dell monitor doesn't have HDMI-CEC. basically my remote can only pause or play the movie. I can't adjust the volume up and down button. If I manage to get a bluetooth speaker connected to apple tv, Can I use the apple tv remote to control the volume of the bluetooth speaker. Can anyone give me some idea how to overcome this HDMI-CEC problem.

 

[JimmyHook]

Amazon must be shaking in their boots Captain Hook, hahahaha.

It's not just me. Apple has higher customer sat ratings than Amazon. Given the choice it would be easy to see Amazon pushed out. I'm suggesting through Apple Feedback that they yank all Amazon apps from the App Store

 

[keifer.street]

So far my experience with Apple TV 4 has been awful. Just awful. I can honestly say I actually miss my old Apple TV after using this one for three days, which is bizarre for an early adopter like me.

1) Remote app doesn't work with Apple TV 4 at launch, which makes #2 worse

2) Setup sucks. Without the remote app, I have to type in all my passwords for all my services like Netflix and Hulu with the awful on screen keyboard.

3) Apps like Hulu are inferior to their Apple TV 3 counterparts. The new Hulu app is terrible compared to the old one. It looks awful and doesn't remember the latest episode you've been watching in an older TV series. Not to mention it crashes frequently, requiring you to restart the Apple TV

4) Bugs - as mentioned in #3, my Apple TV crashed frequently when watching Hulu, when I went to restart I saw pink pars across the screen for several seconds before seeing the Apple logo. It was reminiscent of the BSOD on Windows, which put a bad taste in my mouth and shows no real testing was done with 3rd party apps. In the industry we call this the cost of poor quality when trying to rush a release.

5) Feautres - Siri doesn't work as promised - results weren't showing me only the services I'd subscribed to - but rather everything available to purchase or subscribe. Additionally the 'what did he say' function only works with Apple's TV and movies. If you try this in a third party app like Hulu, it won't add the captions temporarily like it's advertised.

6) Interface - the new UI has gotten a facelift but I hate - absolutely HATE the 3D cover art swivel that you get when scrolling between menu items. It adds unnecessary 'friction' when trying to scroll between items, which is bad - this feature is even present when scrolling through letters on the keyboard. Who the hell needs 3D swivel for the letters? Are you kidding me?! Also, the 'top menu' of Purchased, Top Movies, etc. disappears when scrolling down, making it confusing on how pull it up again in order to navigate between tabs of content

7) Remote - this one is surprising but I don't like the placement of the menu button + TV button. I find myself accidentally hitting the Siri button as the menu button and vice versa. It would feel much more natural if they left all of the buttons off of the touch trackpad and moved them to the lower part of the device, making it easier for your thumb to hit. Having them so high up feels like a bad compromise for them trying to turn it into a gaming remote. Also, despite me having a brand new Samsung TV, I couldn't get it to work to power my TV or change volume - I suspect this is because I have my Apple TV fed as an input to my XBox One, so it throws off the HDMI-C thing but as of now I have 3 buttons on the remote I cannot use for anything.

I tried to like the new Apple TV, I really did. But in its current form, it really stinks. This doesn't seem like a high quality, polished Apple product that I've come to expect.

 

[Precision Gem]

It seems like the "in" thing to do here is to ridicule the new Apple devices. My ATV 4 will arrive Monday or Tuesday, and to me, I think it will serve my needs just fine. I don't have a 4k TV, and most likely won't get one for a few years, as there is basically no content of interest to watch. Once Directv starts broadcasting the NFL Sunday ticket in 4K, I'll buy one. My wife has Amazon Prime, and we have never watched a movie from Amazon, as all the titles are either old and I have already seen them, or B or C movies of no interest. I keep Netflix only a few months to watch a few of their own creations such as Orange is the new black, have never watched a Netflix movie for the same reason as Amazon. So basically I use my current ATV2 to watch new movies from Apple, and to stream music from my iMac to the surround sound, which is full HDMI support.
The new remote with Siri, and 1080 will be a nice upgrade to me. I don't play games, as I'm an adult, but I think a few apps such as AirBNB and maybe Periscope will be nice on the TV. I also subscribe to Apple Music, so this feature will be very useful to me on the ATV4. Looks like a winner to me.

I wonder how many of those who claim they are going to return their new ATV4 actually do?

 

[mrklaw]

For 'what did he say' - why doesn't it just skip back 30 seconds instead of trying to be clever about it

 

[mdriftmeyer]

Meh. Look, most people know what show they want to watch and jump to HBO Go or whatever and find it fast.

When Apple gets their **** together and can integrate with all services and can eliminate the cable box, I'll be impressed.

Even if the future is no cable and all streaming, Apple doesn't even allow all services such as Amazon. So, it's always gonna be half baked.

Talk about ignorance. That **** together is not a technological hurdle, but a Telco/Cable Corp hurdle.

I mean, if I have some random movie on my mac that I just have, because maybe it fell off a truck, can Siri see it? and how do you make that apple mark? it is so cool.



6 hours, seriously, please tell me it was raining outside and your car is at the shop

Use your mouse pointer over the icon. The code is right there.

 

[satchmo]

6) Interface - the new UI has gotten a facelift but I hate - absolutely HATE the 3D cover art swivel that you get when scrolling between menu items. It adds unnecessary 'friction' when trying to scroll between items, which is bad - this feature is even present when scrolling through letters on the keyboard. Who the hell needs 3D swivel for the letters? Are you kidding me?! Also, the 'top menu' of Purchased, Top Movies, etc. disappears when scrolling down, making it confusing on how pull it up again in order to navigate between tabs of content

This whole swipe to scroll was very erratic when I tried to use it at an Apple Store.
I think Apple has 'Swipe Fever'. Just because we do that on a phone doesn't mean it works on a large TV display.
Big bold images flying across the screen is jaring and disorienting.

Sometimes simple lists work. Think original iPod scroll wheel.
Less is more.

 

[izzle22]

It seems like the "in" thing to do here is to ridicule the new Apple devices. My ATV 4 will arrive Monday or Tuesday, and to me, I think it will serve my needs just fine. I don't have a 4k TV, and most likely won't get one for a few years, as there is basically no content of interest to watch. Once Directv starts broadcasting the NFL Sunday ticket in 4K, I'll buy one. My wife has Amazon Prime, and we have never watched a movie from Amazon, as all the titles are either old and I have already seen them, or B or C movies of no interest. I keep Netflix only a few months to watch a few of their own creations such as Orange is the new black, have never watched a Netflix movie for the same reason as Amazon. So basically I use my current ATV2 to watch new movies from Apple, and to stream music from my iMac to the surround sound, which is full HDMI support.
The new remote with Siri, and 1080 will be a nice upgrade to me. I don't play games, as I'm an adult, but I think a few apps such as AirBNB and maybe Periscope will be nice on the TV. I also subscribe to Apple Music, so this feature will be very useful to me on the ATV4. Looks like a winner to me.

I wonder how many of those who claim they are going to return their new ATV4 actually do?

Exactly. This is exactly how I feel and my same thoughts about the new Apple TV.

 

[AZREOSpecialist]

Meh. Look, most people know what show they want to watch and jump to HBO Go or whatever and find it fast.

When Apple gets their **** together and can integrate with all services and can eliminate the cable box, I'll be impressed.

Even if the future is no cable and all streaming, Apple doesn't even allow all services such as Amazon. So, it's always gonna be half baked.

Check your facts. Amazon is refusing to write an app for the Apple TV. Apple is not disallowing or forbidding such an app. It's Amazon's choice not to make an app, so if you're frustrated then you need to place blame squarely where it belongs: Amazon. Why do you think Amazon stopped selling Apple TVs through amazon.com? It can't stand the competition and will do everything it can to sell its own 2nd-rate products instead.

Does anyone know how to watch CNN and CNBC without a cable subscription ?

Exactly. Apple TV, Roku and others are largely useless if they cannot get around the existing cable and satellite monopolies. The whole reason why I want an Apple TV or a Roku in the first place is so I can ditch cable and satellite - not have both.

No kidding. Horrible.

Seriously, this is the best a $672B company known for innovation can do?

It's not apples fault the broadcast (traditional and cable) have a stranglehold on the current model. It's a high profit model that benefits them. They won't be going down without a fight. Seems the changes will happen over time but it will happen eventually.

While it's not Apple's fault, Apple is in the best position to change the industry. After all, couldn't the same have been said about music only 10-15 years ago?

 

[nebo1ss]

Or maybe it's people looking past the obvious for something that isn't there. There's no hidden agenda by Apple, Amazon stopped selling rival hardware round about the same time they began pushing their own (Fire Stick and Fire Box). Amazon want to become a major player in streaming in their own right. Yes an Apple TV app may well bring them more streaming customers but I don't know many people who want to pay £89 or whatever it is up front for streaming when Netflix offers it for £5.99 a month. Netflix also don't do hardware, so your point about Netflix is rendered utterly redundant. It's the same as video gaming, you don't get Halo on PlayStation or Mario on Xbox, as these are reasons to sell your own hardware. Amazon want their service and its content to be the reason you buy their hardware and subscribe to their service. It's that simple.

Amazon is actually very popular in the UK they purchased and integrated "Love Film" which was probably the most popular streaming service in the UK. Like Netflix they have a lot of original TV content that is not available anywhere else. Netflix has not been £5.99 a month for a while now. In fact two price increases from £5.99 to £6.99 in 2014 and from £6.99 to £7.45 in 2015. This is for non 4K streaming if you want 4K the price is actually higher still.

 

[Tigerstyles]

While it's not Apple's fault, Apple is in the best position to change the industry. After all, couldn't the same have been said about music only 10-15 years ago?

I have had mine since friday and I love it!

Asphalt8 is a fun racer on ATV4 I'm looking forward to BBC App and the Apple Music App,

I agree though the remote is poorly designed and Siri needs a bit of work!

Also wouldn't connect to my Bluetooth speaker, Does it have to be a Bluetooth4 as apposed to Bluetooth 2?

 

[macfacts]

Keep up guy, that has nothing to do with Apple. Your beef is with Amazon, who is refusing to put their app on ATV because there's no additional revenue stream for them without giving a percentage to Apple, and who is also refusing to sell Apple TVs from their own store because it competes from Fire TV.

You just explained it in your response ... Apple wants a cut of what Amazon is selling so Amazon doesn't make the app. Apple is trying to make deals with cable companies, why doesn't Apple at least try to work with Amazon.

All my movies and shows are properly tagged; no luck getting Siri to find them.

How does Apple get their 30% cut if you can watch movies you rip from dvd? Apple can't, thats why you can't use siri to search for it.

 

[Roller]

I think it was a mistake to put so much importance on Siri.

I'm confident that almost everyone will not use Siri for interacting with the Apple TV, because it's innately unnatural to speak to a box. You would have thought that Apple would have built an app for the Apple Watch that allows you to flick through TV stations. That's another big flaw with Cook's thinking about TV: apps are not the right medium for TV; channels are. It's much quicker pressing a button once to get to another station than it is to close an app, open another app and navigate to the station you want.

I don't think this is the future of TV that Steve Jobs worked out; it seems too slow and clunky. Surely, the ideal TV interface would be customised to show all your favourite content accessible with one tap, and that content would include all non-iTunes content, live TV and cable together with iTunes. There would be no logging in whatsoever, as the TV would sync log-in details via iCloud from your iPhone, iPad, Apple Watch or Mac.

Going to a particular channel works only if you know that the content you're looking for is there. But what if you don't know? There are only a few ways to locate content: manually (click through all the available programming available at any given time, awkward even if you use a guide), type something about what you're looking for into a virtual or real keyboard, or describe what you want by voice. The last option, which is faster when it works, isn't any less natural than other voice-driven interfaces. For example, I've become very accustomed to controlling my car's nav system and calling people by voice.

The problem with Siri on the Apple TV is that it's not consistent or comprehensive enough as it is. For some things, it works well; for others, it mis-recognizes words (particularly names and other elements in titles), so it sometimes ends up taking as long as it would to enter the same information into a search box.

But even with its shortcomings, which I expect Apple to address, I find the new Apple TV to be a worthwhile improvement over my old one. I subscribe to Netflix and HBO - once logged into both services, I don't have to do it again. (I'm hoping that Amazon gets added to the mix.)

 

[Derekeys]

Sad there isn't an always on Siri option. I know there'd be some trouble here and there with it possibly accidentally activating, but man I loved saying "Xbox Pause" during Netflix. If I'm finding the remote to use Siri, might as well hit the pause button there.