Hard Drive Failed, MacBook Pro Rejecting Replacement

Discussion in 'MacBook Pro' started by micpringle, Aug 22, 2011.

  1. micpringle macrumors newbie

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    #1
    On Thursday night my MacBook Pro (mid-2010, 13'') froze and wouldn't respond, so I powered-off using the power button. Upon restart all I got was the Apple logo and the spinner; no matter how long I left it it wouldn't boot any further than that.

    Booting in safe mode wouldn't work.

    Booting in verbose mode and running fsck revealed several issues with the disk including bad blocks and corrupt data in the journal.

    Booting from the installation disk and repairing using Disk Utility failed, as did trying to repair using fsck.

    So, I installed OS X onto an external USB drive and managed to finally get the disk to mount in read-only mode after disabling journaling. I was then able to backup my data.

    As my MacBook Pro is 14 months old and I didn't purchase AppleCare, I went out and bought a Hitachi Travelstar 320gb 7200rpm replacement on Saturday and fit it without any issue following the guide in the Apple manual.

    This is where more issues arose. When booting from the installation disk and being presented with the language selection screen the trackpad and keyboard are not responsive at all. When booting from the external drive whilst the new drive is installed, once I'm at the login screen the trackpad and keyboard are unresponsive. However, when booting I can press C to boot from the CD/DVD and I can hold ALT to be presented with the boot drive selection screen where both trackpad and keyboard work flawlessly. So I can rule out the trackpad and keyboard being damaged. I can also back this up further because if I reinstall the damaged hard drive and boot from either an installation CD/DVD or the USB drive the trackpad and keyboard both work as expected.

    I've tried resetting the PRAM; no change.

    I've tried resetting the SMC; no change.

    I've tried disabling the Sudden Motion Sensor; no change.

    I've tried the new hard drive in an external enclosure with a different Mac and the drive is functioning fine.

    So I'm totally stumpled. Why is the MacBook Pro rejecting the new hard drive? Surely this has to be some sort of compatibility issue, or deeper-lying issue? I've trawled the internet over the weekend but to no avail.

    I'm booked in to see a Genius on Wednesday night but since the device is out of warranty I'm not holding much hope. The only things in my favour are Consumer law sighting it's not fit for purpose, nor has it lasted a reasonable amount of time. The fact that Apple don't provide a list of recommended hard drives anywhere or that the manual doesn't desuade you from manually replacing the drive yourself instead giving you a step-by-step guide.

    Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.

    -Mic
     
  2. Prodo123 macrumors 68020

    Prodo123

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    #2
    Use the OS X DVD you got when you bought your MacBook Pro to install the OS on the new drive first, since that's the only way that your trackpad will work.

    There is no "compatibility issues". All hard drives are created equal; no drive is more compatible than the other.

    Worst case scenarios are logic board, cable or static damage.
     
  3. micpringle thread starter macrumors newbie

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    #3
    As stated above, I cannot do this as the trackpad and keyboard don't work. I get to the first screen but cannot continue as I cannot choose an option.

    There are several compatibility issues with certain drives and MacBook Pro's. Just search Google or these forums and it'll turn up many threads.

    I can't see it being any of those other issues as again, stated above, if I remove the Hitachi hard drive and reinstall the Seagate one the trackpad and keyboard work as normal. If there was static damage or it was a logicboard issue they just wouldn't work at all.
     
  4. jimbo1mcm macrumors 68000

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2010
    #4
    Find a mouse

    Find a mouse and do a complete erase and re-format of your new drive.( guides are around). Then install the OSX from your original DVD. Post the results.
     
  5. micpringle thread starter macrumors newbie

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    #5
    I'm not sure how this will fix my problem but I'll see if I can find a mouse and give it a try.

    It also won't answer why I can use my trackpad if I hold down ALT on boot for drive selection, and why the keyboard responds to boot keys such as C and D yet neither will respond when I boot from USB once I hit the login screen or boot from CD. Or why all functionality is restored if I remove the new drive and replace it with the busted Seagate.
     
  6. thinkinblue613 macrumors 6502

    thinkinblue613

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    #6
    Sounds like a logicboard problem. I had the same thing happen to me.

    If that is the case, I would recommend checking alternative certified repair places. Or if you're confident and patient enough to do it yourself, iFixit.com.. If it is the logicboard, it will cost a lot to fix through Apple.

    When mine died on me, I took it to Apple. They swapped out the Memory, cleaned the entire MBP, swapped the battery. All still the same problems as you.

    So they took it in and told me it would be a few days as they had to order the part. Longest few days of my life. haha Anyways, they swapped out the logicboard and it finally worked.

    I also just bought the 2011 MBP 13 i5, it only took 2 weeks of use to go out on me.
     
  7. micpringle thread starter macrumors newbie

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    #7
    Are you sure it could be the logic board?

    Why would it function as normal with the damaged hard drive installed? Surely any fault with the logic board would be apparent regardless of which hard drive was installed?
     
  8. thinkinblue613 macrumors 6502

    thinkinblue613

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    #8
    Hmm... Well, I could be wrong. :rolleyes:

    Does it work fine with the older hard drive? If so, maybe you just got a bad replacement hard drive.
     
  9. micpringle thread starter macrumors newbie

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    #9
    Yeah it works fine with the damaged drive; the trackpad and keyboard issues only start after installing the new drive.

    The new drive is fine as I've tried it in an external enclosure.

    Just got off the phone with Apple 2nd Line Tech Support (after kicking up a fuss so they'd actually talk to me) and they believe it could be that the new drive is consuming to much power (as its 7200rpm rather than the stock 5200rpm) and this is why the trackpad and keyboard aren't working. I was told they'd be able to confirm this in store.

    I was also told they very much doubt it's anything to do with the logicboard, which is great news considering the cost of 'em.
     
  10. gr8tfly macrumors 603

    gr8tfly

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    #10
    Basic questions and assumptions:

    When you setup the new drive, was it partitioned (such as "1 Partition") using the GUID table type (Options... button), and formatted as Mac OS Extended (journaled)?

    The installation disc you speak of is the one for your particular machine or a later retail disc?

    Your plan is to do a fresh install, then use the migration assistant to restore your backup data (depending on how and what you backed up, of course)?
     
  11. micpringle thread starter macrumors newbie

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    #11
    Yes; the drive has a single partition which is of the GUID table type and is formatted as Mac OS Extended (Journaled).

    The installation disc is Snow Leopard and is the one that was provided with my machine.

    Yes; I want to do a fresh install. The only data I needed to back up was my iPhoto library, my iTunes library and all my development work and all of this can be restored manually.
     
  12. gr8tfly macrumors 603

    gr8tfly

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    #12
    I was reading back over your OP and you said you tried booting off an external drive. What is on that drive? Is it an install newer than your install discs?
     
  13. micpringle thread starter macrumors newbie

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    #13
    Yes; Lion is installed on that drive.

    However I can't see this being an issue because as I've stated before, if I install the old hard drive (the one that's died) and boot from the external hard drive with Lion installed everything works flawlessly.

    The trackpad and keyboard issues only start when the new drive is installed and that's regardless of whether I'm booting from the external USB containing Lion or the Snow Leopard DVD that came with the machine.
     
  14. Maschil macrumors 6502a

    Maschil

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  15. micpringle thread starter macrumors newbie

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    #15
    I definitely would; hindsight is a wonderful thing.

    I've had a Mini, a white MacBook, an iMac and now the MacBook Pro. With each of the previous models I paid the extra money and purchased AppleCare, but never had a cause to use it. My Macs were seemingly bulletproof. It was based on this that I decided not to this time around and instead save the money; what a mistake that could turn out to be.
     
  16. gr8tfly macrumors 603

    gr8tfly

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    #16
    How about this: install the new drive in the MBP.

    Plug the external drive with Lion in.

    Startup using the Lion Recovery HD which should be on the USB drive. Startup holding down cmd-r or opt, and select the Recovery HD partition.

    Now, verify the internal drive - you should have a single partition (listed as "current"), format and part table as stated above. Use the Repair Disk function as necessary.

    See if you can startup properly on the external, with the new insternal installed. (hold down opt while starting to select boot volume)..

    If so, you should to be able to use the Lion Installer App to install a clean install of Lion on the new internal. You can use the migration assistant to restore your apps, and other data, plus whatever you would like to manually drag over off your backup drive and/or whatever is on the Lion external drive (if any).
     
  17. micpringle thread starter macrumors newbie

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    #17
    The problem with this is that after this point I have no trackpad and keyboard.

    I can hold down ALT to get the drive selection and use the trackpad to select the appropriate drive, but once the menu from the recovery partition is presented the trackpad and keyboard fail respond any more meaning I cannot choose any option such as loading Disk Utility.

    ----------

    Just to clear up any confusion ...

    With the new hard drive installed, the trackpad and keyboard become unresponsive whether I boot from the external USB into Lion, boot from the external USB into the recovery disk or boot from the Snow Leopard installation DVD that came with the machine.

    If I remove the new hard drive and replace it with the dead one, any of those three options above work flawlessly and trackpad & keyboard responsiveness is fully restored.
     
  18. gr8tfly macrumors 603

    gr8tfly

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    #18
    I'm going to out on a limb:

    Which devices are using external USB ports? If more than the HD, plug the HD in first; then the USB devices. If you are only using the external HD USB, try simply changing which port you're using. Or, try using an external power supply or, use a Y-cable and plug the drive into both ports for power. That shouldn't need to be done, though, since the first device connected which requires more power >500ma, will get it. So, the Y-cable shouldn't make a difference.

    If you haven't figured out the direction I'm going: it's about power.

    Now the first two cases make sense - external USB drawing down total USB current enough that the trackpad and keyboard fail - they are also USB devices. Try changing the USB port you're using.

    The other case is the new drive installed internal and a DVD installed. The only thing there would be if the new HD draws too much from from the SATA power budget. I have a friend with a 500GB Hitachi 7200RPB on his late 2008 17" Al and it's running fine. I tend to doubt the 750GB takes more, but it might be worth checking out. All the 7200 RPM drives I've checked into take a maximum of 1A on startup.

    So there's another scenario we can try - put the Lion Drive internal, and put the new drive in the external. You should still startup on the Recovery HD, since during block copy both partitions must be unmounted.

    Last consideration is you received a bad drive which is drawing too much current. :/

    I'll check back a bit later today and see how it's going. It's very late or very early, depending on how you look at it and/or if the sun is up yet. ;) (0504hrs, 1204UTC)
     
  19. micpringle, Aug 23, 2011
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2011

    micpringle thread starter macrumors newbie

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    #19
    The external drive has it's own power supply so that shouldn't be an issue (but as a side note I've already tried swapping the ports but to no avail)

    I can't put the external drive inside as it's a 3.5'' so that's a no go.

    I also believe it to be a power issue now as this is what Apple 2nd Line Tech Support reckoned on my most recent of calls. They stated that they don't offer a 7200RPM on the 13'' models, only 5400RPM (custom configuration) and this is the reason why. They are assuming the 7200RPM will be drawing too much power once it's in full swing (i.e. once the system has booted) which is why I have keyboard and trackpad initially, but then they fail once at the login screen or the initial screen of the boot DVD.

    I've arranged to swap the one I have for a 5400RPM tonight so hopefully that'll resolve the issue. If not I've still got my appointment at the Genius bar tomorrow and it'll be one more thing that can be ruled out.

    There definitely are some differences in the power consumptions between the 7500RPM and the 5400RPM models.
     
  20. gr8tfly macrumors 603

    gr8tfly

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    #20
    I did go and check the specs on a WD Scorpio Black 320GB 7200RPM, and it's 1.1A max, which is only on spin-up. After that, it's about 250ma. It would be interesting to find what the max consumption is for the Hitachi 750GB drive.

    However, it's a bit hard to understand why the internal DC power supply would be that marginal. I'm fairly certain I've seen many posts where the owners have installed other 7200RPM drives in a 13" with no problem. Most drives come up to around that 1A figure when spinning up - even 5400RPM. For instance, the WD Scorpio Blue 750GB 5400RPM is 0.975A peak. That's just 135ma (675mw @ 5vdc) difference to the WD Scorpio Black 7200RPM 320GB at 1.1A max.

    If the internal DC supply were that constrained, you couldn't have any external devices connected, as each USB port must still supply up to 0.500ma. As I'm writing this, my thoughts are shifting to something amiss with the MBP itself. If it can't supply the extra 135ma (diff between WD 7200 and 5400 RPM), then it couldn't supply any current to even one USB port at the same time. Therefore, the current difference between these two drive examples should not be an issue for the MBP.

    That, or the Hitachi 750 would have to be pulling much more than the 5400RPM drive (>0.975A).

    Of course, I've only personally used the WD SB on my 17" UB MBP, so I can't say what exactly the result will be on the 13". But, if you scout around, you will find reports of 13" MBP's with 7200RPM drives running fine. (At least, I'm virtually 100% sure I've read of them, but without one in front of me… But, I'd bet I can find some. ;) )

    It does look like a power issue, though. At least the possibilities are narrowing down to that, and it makes sense with the behavior of the other internal devices. Another possibility is the drive itself, but I would think you would notice some sort of strange behavior when used on the other machine if it were drawing excessive current.

    Good luck, anyway. I sympathize with your frustration. I'm sure you'll get it sorted out, though.
     
  21. micpringle thread starter macrumors newbie

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    #21
    :apple: said they don't offer a 7200RPM as a customisation option on the 13'' at all, the drives they offer are all 5400RPM (regardless of size) and the reason is the extra power consumption. On the 15'' and up 7200RPM drives are offered and it's not an issue.

    Anyway, the retailer I bought the drive from kindly exchanged it for a 5400RPM last night without any fuss (which is great considering their under no obligation to do so) but they didn't have an Hitachi in stock so I took a Western Digital Scorpio Blue 320gb.

    I installed the drive and booted up Lion from the external USB and lo & behold I had a fully functional trackpad and keyboard. All is well!

    However that feeling didn't last long. Whilst I do indeed have full functionality restored to the trackpad and keyboard just as the :apple: engineer stated I would, I still cannot use the drive. Why? Because I am unable to format or partition it :mad:

    It doesn't matter whether I try Disk Utility from inside Lion booted from USB, from Disk Utility loaded from the Recovery Partition or even Disk Utility from the Snow Leopard boot disk. All I get are the following errors ...

    Lion

    Unable to write to the last block of the device

    Snow Leopard

    POSIX Reports: The operation couldn't be completed. Cannot allocate memory

    (I have even tried fdisk and diskutil from the command-line but to no avail)

    I have done some searching and this seems a common issue, but the majority are experiencing it when trying to format or partition an external USB drive.

    I download Smart Utility and it reports all is well with the drive, so I'm ruling it it being a bad drive (and I'd have to the unluckiest person in the world to end up with a bad drive at this point).

    Any ideas?
     
  22. GermanyChris macrumors 601

    GermanyChris

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    #22
    You are the unluckiest peson I've read about recently..:confused:
     
  23. micpringle thread starter macrumors newbie

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    #23
    Thought I'd update the thread as I now seemingly have a resolution!

    Had my appointment with a Genius last night. Apparently Apple have strict guidelines about what they can and can't do with a machine that contains 3rd party hardware; given I'd left in my new hard drive (since that was the one I couldn't format) this caused an issue straight away.

    After a fair bit of pleading on my part, the chap finally agreed to take a look and try to format the drive for me. Only he couldn't get the machine to boot off their network and their diagnostics were reporting the drive as a SAS drive so we were both a little confused.

    After a long conversation he came to the conclusion that it probably was the SATA cable that's at fault and offered me a price for repair. Although it came with a big caveat: since the Apple drive had failed, but would have to be in the machine for the repair to take place they'd have no way of knowing whether it would fix the problem with the inability to format the new drive. So effectively I could fork over the cost of the repair and still have a machine in the same state. I didn't like this one bit.

    He offered me a price to replace the hard drive as well as the cable: £148.80 inc VAT and labour.

    Apple charge £90 (not fitted) for a 5400RPM drive 70GB less in size than the one I'd picked up in PC World for £44.99 - I was disgusted!

    I fought my corner and eventually got to speak with the store manager who after some haggling (and a raised voice in a crowded store) agreed to replace both parts for £100 flat and also include a full copy of iLife 11. I had no other options left so bit his hand off (not literally of course).

    I had to take my machine home so I could swap the drives and I'm dropping it off tonight. I'll have it back good as new (hopefully) in 5-7 days.

    PC World have also agreed to take back the new hard drive for a second time and offered a full refund, which is a result.
     
  24. MrJolly macrumors member

    MrJolly

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    #24
    That is a result micpringle, which Apple store what that?
     
  25. micpringle thread starter macrumors newbie

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    #25
    I'd rather not say at this point (wouldn't want to jinx anything) other than it's located in the north-west of England.

    Once I've got the machine back in my hands and fully working I'll name the store :D
     

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