Hardware-Free WWDC Sets Stage for Busy Second Half of 2016

[CWallace]

Seems like the solution to this is to just allow for the iMac to work as a monitor.

As I understand it, the reason it does not is that actually driving a 5K monitor at 60Hz requires specialized hardware. With the iMac, Apple was able to design their own and tie it into the on board AMD GPU.

A standalone 5K monitor at 60Hz requires two Thunderbolt 2 ports so you'd take up both ports on the iMac as input and both ports on, say, a MacBook Pro as the output, which means the only TB device you could have would be the iMac itself. The Mac Pro has enough ports to dedicate two to driving a 5K monitor, which is why some likely use the Dell 5K monitor with it.

I believe even TB3 needs dual channels at the moment to handle 5K, though there are updates to the Displayport or HDMI spec (not sure which one) that will allow 5K over a single TB3 (and USB-C?) port, but I do not believe Intel has released a chipset with that support yet (might be slated for Kaby Lake?).

 

[ToomeyND]

As I understand it, the reason it does not is that actually driving a 5K monitor at 60Hz requires specialized hardware. With the iMac, Apple was able to design their own and tie it into the on board AMD GPU.

A standalone 5K monitor at 60Hz requires two Thunderbolt 2 ports so you'd take up both ports on the iMac as input and both ports on, say, a MacBook Pro as the output, which means the only TB device you could have would be the iMac itself. The Mac Pro has enough ports to dedicate two to driving a 5K monitor, which is why some likely use the Dell 5K monitor with it.

I believe even TB3 needs dual channels at the moment to handle 5K, though there are updates to the Displayport or HDMI spec (not sure which one) that will allow 5K over a single TB3 (and USB-C?) port, but I do not believe Intel has released a chipset with that support yet (might be slated for Kaby Lake?).

I would imagine there are many people here that are willing to use up both thunderbolt ports in order to get the monitor to work. I would be, as my only use for thunderbolt ports are to connect to monitors. A macbook pro has two ports, so this would work for them. Apple has already shown that they are willing to support only some models with connectivity by not including thunderbolt on the rMB, so this shouldn't be a deterring factor.

I understand that the proposed solution is not the most elegant for ALL users, but it would be good enough for some.

 

[LiveM]

I'm still waiting for a replacement for my 2012 Mac Mini!

 

[Glideslope]

Except Tim Cook's focus on shipping actual product holds the stock's value back because Wall Street and investors now view Apple as a "manufacturing" company like GM or GE and judge them on their shipping volume. If Tim really wanted to make money via stock, he'd stop launching real products and just announce endless vaporware like Google and Amazon and Wall Street would quadruple the current share price and he'd be a billionaire like Brin and Bezos.

You do realize Apple is moving from a Hardware Company, to a Services Based Company, yes?

 

[CWallace]

You do realize Apple is moving from a Hardware Company, to a Services Based Company, yes?

Yes, and this forum is full of people complaining about that (changes to iMessage, for example).

Seriously, I am glad Apple is expanding into services as there is good money to be made there and it will hopefully move some of the media and investor focus on Apple as a company away from the iOS hardware.

 

[nbritton]

Because he believed Cook would carry on Apple tradition. But no. Cook lied to him. Record spending in R&D and yet no new products.

Umm the Apple A5, A6, A7, A8, A9, A10, S1, and S2 SoC were all created under Tim. Custom silicon is not cheap.

 

[Black Magic]

The whole 'no cheap hardware angle' for OSX is kinda grating in 2016 for Apple. Elitism is with every platform but only Apple stupidly keep their prices higher. I have been buying Apple stuff since 2001. Yet only now are they in trouble.

At least that's how the essay starts. We've all read it a million times, makes no difference, they are out to milk.

Have you ever been curious about buying some New Apple hardware, then scrolled through the options and clicked, you know, to make the hardware actually modern, then looked at the price and just scoffed?

Nowadays to go through that? When you have been buying Apple for 15 years (great support but paid for it)? Not so much Apple, we have different priorities. Why screw us on options in 2016? Makes no sense, you are killing on 16GB phones.

Just sayin, it becomes tiring year in and out until in the end, you just buy a 5S with 16, an old mcp and you just settle.

And Apple loses out.

I buy refurbished and save.

 

[Soccertess]

I honestly have been waiting with my wallet ready for a year to replace my 2013 macbook air but thus far Apple hasn't released anything compelling enough for me to want to switch because I love my 2013 air but I wish it had a better screen (not even higher resolution just better colours and IPS with a thinner bezel) and also I would love even longer battery life. The macbook doesn't do it for me, battery life is worse than the air and only one port. Macbook pro doesn't do it for me either, thicker, heavier, more power than I need, and worse battery life. Many times I have considered switching back to windows but unfortunately I am very wary because every windows laptop I have used in the past has had a really bad touchpad

I know what you mean! I'm in the exact same boat. I won't touch that Macbook with a 10 foot pole. I love my air but the form factor is too old. No reason for those giant benzels anymore.

We will see what happens, I'll jump to Andriod for a phone a lot quicker than Windows for a laptop. OS X is still amazing and Cook hasn't been able to screw it up YET.

 

[robbyx]

You do realize Apple is moving from a Hardware Company, to a Services Based Company, yes?

Which is precisely what has me concerned. People like me who have been choosing Apple hardware for many decades worry about this direction. So far, as a services company, Apple has been pretty mediocre. The WWDC keynote ranged from dull and uninspired to outright cringeworthy. That keynote was the final nail in the old Apple's coffin. This new Apple, the one that would sanction that painful (and worse, desperate) Apple Music spot, is a new and different company.

 

[BornAgainMac]

I'm still waiting for a replacement for my 2012 Mac Mini!

Today, I looked at the price of those things on eBay. After selling it, you get to recover all the costs and even make a small profit after owning it for 4 years. Apple would use the term "Incredible" or "Magical" for the Mac Mini 2012.

 

[stonegate]

Sager NP9870

HaHa

 

[CWallace]

I would imagine there are many people here that are willing to use up both thunderbolt ports in order to get the monitor to work.

Well they can do that by purchasing the Dell 5K monitor, though it costs about as much as the entry-level iMac 5K. As for why the iMac can't be used, it may be spite on Apple's part or it may be that the on-board special controller circuitry prevents it from taking an externally-generated 5K source.

Apple has already shown that they are willing to support only some models with connectivity by not including thunderbolt on the rMB, so this shouldn't be a deterring factor.

True, but USB-C provides that same functionality and I imagine Apple will eventually move from TB to USB-C (as they did from FW to USB3/TB).

 

[nbritton]

I was hoping for an Apple TV 5th generation with 4k output and universal search spanning across Amazon Prime Video, Netflix, Hulu, and HBO Now. I was also was hoping for a subscription TV service from Apple.

 

[Johnny907]

Honestly at this point the earliest I expect to see updates will be in September, more likely October. IMO Apple is using their back to school promo to sell as much as they can the current inventory before releasing update models. I think their promo ends in September.

I know you're probably right because if rumors are true and they are launching with a new design like that OLED touch panel, Apple will hold off launching them until Sierra is ready. Like I said, wishful thinking.

 

[CWallace]

I know you're probably right because if rumors are true and they are launching with a new design like that OLED touch panel, Apple will hold off launching them until Sierra is ready. Like I said, wishful thinking.

It will be interesting to see if there is any information from the macOS developer sessions about utilizing the rumored OLED strip. If so, that would reinforce that the new MBPs would ship day and date with Sierra.

 

[Ankaa]

When it comes to the visual interaction between your eyes and the outdated MBA display, it's a major downgrade, especially after looking at a Retina display at a store or at your friend's place. Why not wait if something significantly better is getting closer in the pipeline? Sounds like common sense, at least to many of us. The current MBA/MBP look and in some ways feel like the same ones you could've purchased 3-4 years ago. This isn't similar to having a iPhone 6 and wishing you had a 6s. It's more like having an iPhone 4s and wishing you had a 6s, 7, maybe even an 8. Now, I'm probably barking up the wrong tree here, so the best for me would be to move on.

Jeez indeed.

If you want Retina, why don't get a Macbook or Macbook Pro with Retina? There's no indication that the Air's gonna get Retina. Your argument is somewhat flawed.

If, and that is IF, size and weight matter, you can either get an Air (if you don't care for the screen) or wait (although it has been mentioned many many times to me, that the retina pro isn't that much thicker/lighter) or you can wait. But the argument I replied to was that you get a Macbook now and then be jealous about people getting a newer model in the fall.

If in principle Apple offers what you need/want, there's no reason to wait and get butthurt over POTENTIAL new features that may or may not prove useful. Except the MBA's screen, the current MBA/MBP models really aren't as outdated as you make them seem. As mentioned before, most of it is in your mind... Yes, it is actually VERY similar to having an iPhone 6 and wanting an iPhone 6S ...
If Apple does not offer what you need, you wait. Simple as that.

 

[hiddenmarkov]

Could this be the reason we have Swift in Linux? Tim's gona kick all developers to that platform...

Fashion house has no room for geeks.

(I'm not really believing in it.. just playing with the thought.)

Thinking the open source is apple's attempt to have a footprint out of mac hardware. What limited obj-c and cocoa was it was apple only. Good they came to the party....question now is did they come too late.

thing is....its going to have to deal with the other who been here for years. Not sure how that will pan out. they already have set frameworks. And interoperability between them worked out. JS.node to ruby on rails to C#....this and other combo's of language/frameworks has been worked out. Probably has a few oreilly books written on it. And stackoverflow and other sites have question posts galore answered, answers rated and closed on the matter.



Also doesn't help they don't seem to eating what they make. While M$'s frequent updates to say .net framework are annoying (since usually not backwards compatible), we can at least say they believe in the stuff they make. A new .net version released in say Feb...we can predict M$ product sold later in June will need that installed. They use what they make put simply. Want me to drink that cool aid....I tend to like to see you drink it first kind of thing lol.

Apple is now at 3 versions of swift and as far as I know has not recoded one of their applications for any of them. Nor released a new application based on it. Want me to be believe this is the wave of the future...show us how you use it apple. Doesn't help the sale happen when you aren't visibly using the very product you are making. You need to be on swift, you want to be on swift says apple. So...apple...tell us how its helped you. Maybe something concrete like apple application A in obj-c and application A version II, newly recoded in 100% swift. Same hardware, benchmark mortal combat....ready fight.

Umm, yeah, about that...we cba to actually write something in it what we are getting from them. At version 3. Version 1 I was nice, its new, recodes take time. its now version 3....time to show us something.

 

[gugy]

I know you're probably right because if rumors are true and they are launching with a new design like that OLED touch panel, Apple will hold off launching them until Sierra is ready. Like I said, wishful thinking.

yep, it makes sense that Apple releases it with Sierra. Maybe some of the hardware improvements (TB3 hopefully/Skylake) are dependent on the new OS.
Yeah, gotta be patient. In the meantime I am looking for an used MBP 13" to hang until the new stuff comes to the market.

 

[pat500000]

Hoping for a redesigned 27-inch 5K iMac in space gray and gold options with 4 USB-C ports including two that support Thunderbolt 3 this fall. [Although I doubt they'll want to bother with multiple color skews of the associated accessories, but they would look awesome nonetheless]. Could you imagine??

View attachment 636328

Despite getting a 5K display, the current iMac has had the same design for nearly 4 years now. Even though it got dramatically thinner in 2012, the front face of the iMac is unchanged since 2009! Since they will need to change the body anyway for USB-C ports, I think we'll see a redesign this year with a smaller chin and thinner bezels.

Is this gonna be Apple edition? 50k iMac?
[doublepost=1466120265][/doublepost]

What about the MacPro....????? Any new refresh on that Cylinder of UBER Power!! ?

I have been waiting three years now for an update... what is going on with Apple... FFS!!! We deserve the attention and respect also... OK... we are not a massive consumer electronics market.... but we were the only money making side of the business until the iMac came along in all it's colours.... come on Apple... looks after the PROs also...

Tim called in and left you a message on your answer machine: "hackintosh."

 

[shaunp]

i think the issue is spending $1,499 on outdated technology when the new version (chips, thunder3, faster sad, oled bar, etc) will be available in X months, and could/should available June 30th, 2016

True, but if you need a laptop now because you don't have one... I could have bought an XPS 13 for around the same money and gotten the newer tech. Besides nobody knows the release date, it could be next week, it could be next year. I stuck with a Mac because I also have a nMP and I prefer to have one platform on desktop and mobile. I looked at selling the nMP and going PC but I'd lose too much money on it.

However later in the year I may need something with a lot more power as a mobile VM lab. If I do and Apple still haven't come up with the goods, then I'll get a Dell 5510 and put up with two platforms.

What I would like Apple to make is something with the power of the Dell 7510 in a package the size of the 5510. 64GB RAM, workstation GPU, 2TB SSD and mobile Xeon/i7 in a package that weighs no more than 2kg would be great. The 7510 is around the same weight as the M4800 I'd just sold and the weight was one of the main problems I had with that machine. The Lenovo P50 is another option, but again too heavy. The 5510 is the right size and weight, the only thing I would like is more RAM to future-proof what would be a £3k laptop.

 

[jmgregory1]

Seems like the solution to this is to just allow for the iMac to work as a monitor. Then people can decide if it is a good $/value decision. Currently there are no options. No target display mode and no 4k/5k monitors from Apple.

Instead of finding a solution, it looks like Apple came to the problem and then gave up.

I agree. The iMac should absolutely be able to be used as a monitor. Not sure why Apple wouldn't allow or even promote that ability is strange, other than potentially de-valuing the iMac.

 

[ToomeyND]

True, but USB-C provides that same functionality and I imagine Apple will eventually move from TB to USB-C (as they did from FW to USB3/TB).

I didn't mean the USB-C port itself. USB-C can have thunderbolt. Apple chose not to include Thunderbolt capability in the computer despite the connector being the appropriate shape.

 

[coachingguy]

I feel "some" of the pain many of you feel. However, I think it should be pointed out that if you're on this site, it's likely that you're a fanboy and/or a power user... The number of you who can recall the Intel product map out to 2018 as well as AMD's is impressive. But MOST people don't know about any of this. MB's, MBP's, MBA's, iMacs look cool and for 95% of people they're more computer than they'll ever use.

But, it's clear, computer hardware is a secondary concern for Apple at this time. As our cell phones and tablets become more powerful that'll meet the needs of even more people.

Apple's been out front on "changes" in the technology/computer field for along time... From dropping floppy discs to no discs, colors... etc... And people are simply using their technology for longer because that technology does what they need it to do for longer. What often forces the "need" for an upgrade is software... My in-laws had a 2002 G4 iMac (the one with the Arm - a great design IMHO) that worked great for them until about 2013/14 when we couldn't upgrade the OS anymore and the browsers stopped rendering "This browser is no longer supported" kept appearing. We replaced it with a Mac Mini and $120 20" monitor... They're thrilled!

Where I work, we've stopped buying staff 13" MBP's because over the last 3 years, 65% have had either their HD drive and/or significant Graphics issues... (My 13" MBA had both of these issues) Instead, starting in July, all staff laptops will be replaced with 13" MBA's... Most of them couldn't tell you the difference between RAM and HD... They only care that the device works for them with software they need.

So, my prediction is this, if you are a power user and need yearly or faster hardware updates, you should probably leave the MAC ecosystem. Apple will update their phones, tablets and OS's yearly, but hardware is going to be on a 2-4 year cycle. And with Apples bottom line right now, unless he chooses too... Cook's not going anywhere...

Of course, I could be wrong.

Coaching guy

 

[pat500000]

I agree. The iMac should absolutely be able to be used as a monitor. Not sure why Apple wouldn't allow or even promote that ability is strange, other than potentially de-valuing the iMac.

Money. As I read the article about iMessage and android..they said they need to make money. That mindset should apply with monitor in a sense they want to sell everything individually and max the profit.

 

[forbegos34]

Almost every comment is about upgrading an aging computer.

I just updated a Dell Adamo that came out in March 2009 with a Razer Blade Stealth 2016. It has all the bells and whistles. Type C connector, USB 3.1. All current. Runs really well.

Vast improvement over a 2009 computer? Man, it's faster and more modern, but not, "Oh, my gosh!"

You guys updating 2014, 2012 hardware - will you really see a killer difference. Not. Not at all. I don't buy it.

But you cannot run MacOS