Haswell MacBook Pro non Retina (Soldered RAM... Battery Glued.. )

glasgood

macrumors member
Original poster
Dec 18, 2012
46
0
I love my 2011 MacBook Pro because it is flexible, I can upgrade the RAM if needed or change a problematic memory module. If I run out of storage I can upgrade the storage device (SSD / HDD ) or add a a second storage device by removing the optical drive. When the battery is past it best I can swap in a new one. It really is so so flexible.

On the other hand ifixit gave the Retina MBP a repairability score of 1. In comparison to the non MacBook Pro it is very much a disposable laptop.

With the Haswell MacBook Pro non Retina around the corner what are you thoughts on the following:

It will have ?


Thinner chassis.​

Absent DVD Drive.​

Ram Soldered onto the logic board.​

Proprietary type mSATA interface for storage.​

Battery Glued to the chassis.​


Chassis sealed like a tin of baked beans :)



Would you buy another MacBook Pro non retina if it had a repairability score of 1?



.
 
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B...

macrumors 68000
Mar 7, 2013
1,949
2
It will be the same body, either with the same processors as now or the new one. Doing the things in the OP would make it just like a rMBP (without the retina).
 

maflynn

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Staff member
May 3, 2009
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Would you buy another MacBook Pro non retina if it had a repairability score of 1?
Yes because I'm not going to repair it, regardless of the score. I'm going to send it to Apple for repair and with the extended warranty, I really don't have too much to worry.
 

glasgood

macrumors member
Original poster
Dec 18, 2012
46
0
I'm going to send it to Apple for repair and with the extended warranty, I really don't have too much to worry.
Now I'm sure that's what most people thought before their machine got water damaged.

:)
 

maflynn

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May 3, 2009
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Now I'm sure that's what most people thought before their machine got water damaged.

:)
Water damage is not covered by the warranty and as such you cannot expect apple to repair it for free. Even if the repairability score is high, fixing a laptop that shorted out because of water damage is neither easy or cheap.

So my point stands, laptops are not designed to be repaired by the consumer, they never were and even if the damage is caused by negligence on the owner's part. The best approach is to send it to apple (though they'll have to pay for the repair)
 

Mr MM

macrumors 65816
Jun 29, 2011
1,116
1
Water damage is not covered by the warranty and as such you cannot expect apple to repair it for free. Even if the repairability score is high, fixing a laptop that shorted out because of water damage is neither easy or cheap.

So my point stands, laptops are not designed to be repaired by the consumer, they never were and even if the damage is caused by negligence on the owner's part. The best approach is to send it to apple (though they'll have to pay for the repair)
depends on the class, enterprise level sure thing its repairable, its a requirement, consumer level, not a requirement at all, and its been like that for a long time

basically that thing that the op thought doesnt really need to exist at all
 

cirus

macrumors 6502a
Mar 15, 2011
582
0
Yes because I'm not going to repair it, regardless of the score. I'm going to send it to Apple for repair and with the extended warranty, I really don't have too much to worry.
And if its more of a pain in the *** to repair do you think apple isn't going to increase the warranty costs?
 

Mr MM

macrumors 65816
Jun 29, 2011
1,116
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And if its more of a pain in the *** to repair do you think apple isn't going to increase the warranty costs?
not really, they have less parts than the mbp, their personel costs get lowered (which are considerable), while the part costs raise and will fall in due time

for example it was impossible to get a 1tb SSD for less than 1k, actually 1.5-2k was the norm, now they come for 600, and that was LAST YEAR
 

Stetrain

macrumors 68040
Feb 6, 2009
3,548
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Honestly I would expect no changes at all to the non-retina MBP except for minor CPU/GPU updates.

Apple would not spend the time and engineering work to redesign it when it's obvious that they consider the retina models to be the future of the MBP.

As a matter of fact when they introduced the retina Macbooks, during the keynotes they simply called them the "next generation Macbook Pro".
 

Serban

Suspended
Jan 8, 2013
5,159
920
It is 2013 so i think apple will remove the classic Macbook Pro
But all the other macbooks will have an extra 2 to 3 extra hours battery usage.
 

duervo

macrumors 68020
Feb 5, 2011
2,309
1,032
If repair-ability is important for you, then get a non-Retina MBP while you still can, or get a non-Apple laptop.

Those are your choices. Discussing what-ifs like this are really a waste of time, IMHO.
 

Mr MM

macrumors 65816
Jun 29, 2011
1,116
1
If repair-ability is important for you, then get a non-Retina MBP while you still can, or get a non-Apple laptop.

Those are your choices. Discussing what-ifs like this are really a waste of time, IMHO.
better yet, get enterprise class, they usually come with spill protection
 

sjinsjca

macrumors 68020
Oct 30, 2008
2,063
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I love my 2011 MacBook Pro because it is flexible, I can upgrade the RAM if needed or change a problematic memory module. If I run out of storage I can upgrade the storage device (SSD / HDD ) or add a a second storage device by removing the optical drive. When the battery is past it best I can swap in a new one. It really is so so flexible.
The SSDs on Retina MBPs are easily changeable.

(In addition, both the USB3 and especially Thunderbolt ports have bandwidths that exceed the capabilities of hard disks, so external hard disks are just as responsive as internal ones. If you need more storage, it's cheap and painless to add today without even opening your system.)

So your objections boil down to RAM replaceability. True, it is nice to be able to upgrade later if your budget does not allow purchasing a maxed-out configuration to begin with. But you neglect the reliability advantages of eliminating the RAM connector-- reliability advantages that exponentiate as RAM speeds increase.

Perhaps a bigger flexibility issue which you don't mention is the lack of an internal CD/DVD drive in the Retina models, but that's of small concern nowadays since you can get external SuperDrives that work just as well for cheap, and in many folks' experience (mine included) a physical drive is rarely needed. And the thinness and lightness of the Retina models can't be achieved without eliminating that drive.

As to the glued battery... meh. The battery can be gotten out with minimal difficulty using a low-temperature heat gun and spatula. Meanwhile gluing the battery adds significant strength and bending resistance to the thin Retina form-factor.

See, Apple didn't make any of its recent design choices just to annoy recycling and repair folks and give the pundits something to cluck about. They have significant justifications in terms of system reliability and integrity. But, click-whores in the journalism community being what they are, one rarely reads about that.

Meanwhile, just as with other Apple innovations, you'll see other manufacturers adopting them for the same under-reported reasons. A good example is non-replaceable batteries in both phones and laptops-- roundly derided in 2007, increasingly common practice now.

By the way, the one feature of my old 2010 MacBook Pro that I miss most in my late-2012 Retina MBP is the "breathing" power light that was formerly laser-drilled into the front edge of the unibody MBPs. The laser-drilled holes were so tiny that the metal appeared unbroken when the light was off. But it would pulse gently when the machine was booted but its lid closed. A nice touch, and missed.
 

maflynn

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May 3, 2009
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That's very good for you then, just be careful not to spill any coffee whilst quoting it!

:)
I have my laptop on a stand, as I prefer to avoid such issues. If my coffee is spilt my desk will get wet, possibly my keyboard but my laptop will be safe
 

~~Hello~~

macrumors 6502
Apr 27, 2007
289
17
Yes because I'm not going to repair it, regardless of the score. I'm going to send it to Apple for repair and with the extended warranty, I really don't have too much to worry.
And what about when the extended warranty goes out? You're just going to buy another laptop?

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See, Apple didn't make any of its recent design choices just to annoy recycling and repair folks and give the pundits something to cluck about. They have significant justifications in terms of system reliability and integrity. But, click-whores in the journalism community being what they are, one rarely reads about that.
A pro laptop should not have a glued down battery and soldered on RAM. If people want a lightweight laptop then they should get an AIR.
 

Crzyrio

macrumors 65816
Jul 6, 2010
1,445
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And what about when the extended warranty goes out? You're just going to buy another laptop?

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A pro laptop should not have a glued down battery and soldered on RAM. If people want a lightweight laptop then they should get an AIR.
Some might argue otherwise. What is a PRO laptop?

I consider a PRO laptop as one that has high end components and at the same time is very portable. Not to mention the only upgradeable part about MBP's are the HDD and Ram.

People have this weird mentality in their head that if I cant open it it is bad. If you want to be able to open your computer and tinker with it then Apple is clearly not the way to go.

I would MUCH rather give up Upgradeability to have the MBP lighter and smaller while still being able to do what it does. If I wanted to upgrade and tinker with my computer, I would get a Desktop
 

swingerofbirch

macrumors 68040
I've thought about the same thing myself future-wise with Apple notebooks. I have a regular 13" MacBook Pro, and I would not want to give up the ability to swap the hard drive myself. It's enough of a pain to have to get an AASP to change the battery in order to not void the warranty.

I think Apple is applying its model of consumer electronics it started with the iPhone and applying it to the Macs. The thing they didn't change at the same time was the approach it takes to service.

I understand this may be changing, but as it is, if your phone needs service, you can go to Apple and walk out with a new one. If your Mac fails, you can't do that. You have to submit it for repair and often be without it for a week. Even if you know it's the hard drive or the battery, etc., you can't just order a new one and swap it out yourself.

This new sealed-in consumer electronics design should at least come with a new approach to service.

But even if they did that, I don't like the lack of modularity in the new designs. I used to think modularity would increase over time in technology. I don't buy that people think it's too complicated to switch batteries. Apple might think so, though. Or it's just for the sake of making a thinner design. But I would prefer access to: battery, RAM, and hard drive on any computer I buy. Probably not going to happen, though.

And the other big problem I see is privacy when sending a computer to Apple for repair. I usually zero out my HDD or swap in a blank one before sending it on for repair. What do you do with a built-in SSD? The people who work on your computer are contract workers for Flextronics in various states. They're not even Apple-certified technicians in some cases. But honestly, I wouldn't trust anyone with my data if I weren't watching over their shoulder what they were doing.

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Some might argue otherwise. What is a PRO laptop?

I consider a PRO laptop as one that has high end components and at the same time is very portable. Not to mention the only upgradeable part about MBP's are the HDD and Ram.

People have this weird mentality in their head that if I cant open it it is bad. If you want to be able to open your computer and tinker with it then Apple is clearly not the way to go.

I would MUCH rather give up Upgradeability to have the MBP lighter and smaller while still being able to do what it does. If I wanted to upgrade and tinker with my computer, I would get a Desktop
But not an iMac or Mac mini! The MacBook Pro Classic is more upgradeable than either of those in that its hard drive can be replaced and not void the warranty, which is not true for those desktops.
 

Mr MM

macrumors 65816
Jun 29, 2011
1,116
1
And what about when the extended warranty goes out? You're just going to buy another laptop?

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A pro laptop should not have a glued down battery and soldered on RAM. If people want a lightweight laptop then they should get an AIR.
yeah yeah, its pretty clear you are not getting enterprise class hardware nor workstation on any of apple products before or now. The only thing they have in that is the outdated mac pro
 

sjinsjca

macrumors 68020
Oct 30, 2008
2,063
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But you can't install 1.5TB
? Is there such thing in SSD? I'd hate to see the price tag!

OWC provides Retina MBP upgrades to 500GB (http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/SSD/OWC/Aura_Pro_Retina_2012/).

So the OP is wrong in terms of not being able to upgrade the SSD at all, though the myth persists (e.g., on Crucial's website). Clearly OWC's offering demonstrates that upgrades are possible... just not up to the same capacities in which rotating hard disks are available, or apparently to the capacities Apple offers (for a dear price).
 

sjinsjca

macrumors 68020
Oct 30, 2008
2,063
400
yeah yeah, its pretty clear you are not getting enterprise class hardware nor workstation on any of apple products before or now. The only thing they have in that is the outdated mac pro
Horsepucky.

The gluing of the battery is one of the things that makes recent MBPs "enterprise class." Thinner, lighter, yet with no loss in rigidity, no extra creaks. And that eliminates any flexing of the motherboard, for further reliability improvements.

Meanwhile, elimination of RAM SIMM connectors improves package thickness and reliability, especially as RAM speeds escalate.

Those SIMM connectors are about the last connectors to go away on motherboards. Yet somehow I haven't heard a lot of whining about the lack of a CPU socket on MBP motherboards... and why's that? It's because those sockets added significant points of failure.

The only drawback is that purchasers must buy their RAM at the time of purchase, at Apple's prices ...which aren't too horrible, $200 to jump from 8GB to 16GB in the 15" rMBP, installed and Apple-warranted and supported. Compare to $126 from Crucial for the non-Retina MBP, uninstalled, and you're on your own for warranty and support.

Bottom line, you need to re-think your definition of "enterprise class." If it means less work for the IT department, that's a plus to me as a manager.

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A pro laptop should not have a glued down battery and soldered on RAM. If people want a lightweight laptop then they should get an AIR.
Egad. Do you have any glimmer of a clue how wrong you are?

Just look no further than my own example. My usage is as "pro" as anyone's: Software development, running multiple virtual machines at once, horsing large files around, multiple terminal windows open... An Air would not do for me. An rMBP with its hairy-chested CPU, glorious display, swift SSD and ample complement of flexible interfaces meets my needs well and is almost as portable as an Air, which wouldn't.

Elitist prigs who think they know best really get my back-hairs up, and saying "people" "should" is a great way to walk into my crosshairs.

And I'll say it again: the glued battery and soldered RAM are reliability and integrity enhancements.

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I would not want to give up the ability to swap the hard drive myself.
Then get a Retina Macbook Pro. http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/SSD/OWC/Aura_Pro_Retina_2012/
 
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renosausage

macrumors regular
Sep 22, 2012
158
0
This complaining about the new rMBPs design is SO aggravating.

I mean come on people,

How often do you really change you RAM in a Macbook Pro?

Maybe once in its lifetime that you have it.

I have 8gigs in my rMBP, and 3 years from now 8gigs is going to be just a usable and efficient.

You can also upgrade the SSD if you want, I think my HDD in my old Macbook went out once. I replaced it but, truly there will probably never be a need to replace your SSD. Unless it is faulty and fails.

Why do people fuss about this, they act like they upgrade the parts for their Macbooks every week LOL

I have rarely needed to upgrade parts in my Macbooks and I've had 3 of them.

And when the batteries went out I bought cheap ones from Amazon, TOTAL WASTE OF TIME. They lasted like 6 months. In the end i went to Apple anyway for a good quality battery.

So I don't mind sending them my laptop to replace the battery. It's only 100 bucks and when they do it, they replace the entire bottom case.

Who cares if I can't repair it, I've never needed to and probably never will.

And if I do, I got AppleCare til 2015.