Haswell MacBook Pro non Retina (Soldered RAM... Battery Glued.. )

[Mr MM]

Horsepucky.

The gluing of the battery is one of the things that makes recent MBPs "enterprise class." Thinner, lighter, yet with no loss in rigidity, no extra creaks. And that eliminates any flexing of the motherboard, for further reliability improvements.

Meanwhile, elimination of RAM SIMM connectors improves package thickness and reliability, especially as RAM speeds escalate.

Those SIMM connectors are about the last connectors to go away on motherboards. Yet somehow I haven't heard a lot of whining about the lack of a CPU socket on MBP motherboards... and why's that? It's because those sockets added significant points of failure.

The only drawback is that purchasers must buy their RAM at the time of purchase, at Apple's prices ...which aren't too horrible, $200 to jump from 8GB to 16GB in the 15" rMBP, installed and Apple-warranted and supported. Compare to $126 from Crucial for the non-Retina MBP, uninstalled, and you're on your own for warranty and support.

Bottom line, you need to re-think your definition of "enterprise class." If it means less work for the IT department, that's a plus to me as a manager.

So you are a manager of IT in an apple environment? thats interesting, no sarcasm here, if you can tell me more, I would very much appreciate that you did so. (still no sarcasm)

enterprise class is always about the minimum downtime possible, oh wait the mobo crapped out on X notebook, the support from that OEM, will ship you overnight or send someone with the parts, I can very much appreciate the speed of that.

Other parts that are usually like to fail are also readily available, not to mention sturdiness, while well built, no way any apple notebook can take the beating that the thinkpads, precisions and elitebooks can. and it also avoids those bullcrap comments of hey if you spill coffee on your mac you are done for, because you have to pay more money for it to be repaired, I can do this at my house, I can spill whatever I want on enterprise grade, they are spill resistant

Im not going to enter the rugged business and really washed in a dish washer toughbooks, because its not the same targeted business.

another thing that macs lack are workstation hardware, they dont have, the cooling isnt enough and they just use consumer gpus, those ECC buffered vram exist for a reason

 

[duervo]

FWIW, a lot of "enterprise" IT departments will have a number of spare laptops pre-imaged and sitting on a shelf, ready to go, for immediate deployment if one that is in service has a hardware failure. Most customers where I've done work have had up to 50-60 laptops (with some as much as 100) in their boxes, ready to go. It's pretty standard operation for many large corporations. When a system fails, IT will take it, give the user a fresh replacement, then log a call with the manufacturer of the failed unit. Replacement part(s) will be sent overnight (if local stock unavailable), and IT staff do the repairs in the case of failed memory or HDD. Anything beyond that and the unit is sent out for repair, or manufacturer sends a service rep on-site to fix it (depending on the SLA.)

Also, there aren't very many large corporations that use Apple laptops as the de facto standard. Of the ones that I know of where their employees use them, they are given a choice between an Apple laptop, or one from Dell or HP, and have a specific list of pre-configured, company approved, specs to choose from. They can't just go and get, or are given, a pimped out fully-loaded 15" rMBP.

 

[cube]

? Is there such thing in SSD? I'd hate to see the price tag!

OWC provides Retina MBP upgrades to 500GB (http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/SSD/OWC/Aura_Pro_Retina_2012/).

So the OP is wrong in terms of not being able to upgrade the SSD at all, though the myth persists (e.g., on Crucial's website). Clearly OWC's offering demonstrates that upgrades are possible... just not up to the same capacities in which rotating hard disks are available, or apparently to the capacities Apple offers (for a dear price).

There's such a thing in hard drive.

There's a 2TB 2.5" SATA SSD coming out which should cost about $5000.

The point is that Apple's SSD format can only support the same large capacities much later.

----------

How often do you really change you RAM in a Macbook Pro?

I changed it twice and I would do it again if higher density modules became available.

 

[maflynn]

And what about when the extended warranty goes out? You're just going to buy another laptop?
.

Depending on what's wrong, I may send it in for repair.

The same argument can be made for TVs, cars or any other product you buy. Most people will not attempt to repair a car and when that warranty runs out they pay for it out of the pocket.

If I had to decide between paying apple 400 dollars to repair the laptop and 2000 for buying a new one, I'd opt for the repair.

That line of thought is a bit silly because consumer electronics are not designed for high repairability. I don't know too many people willing to cracking open a HP printer because its not working right, or something suddenly went wrong with the PS3 so they're working on it. Sure there are people who can and do that, but if they have the skills to repair those things, low repairability scores don't scare them off either. I'd also not classify those folks as typical consumers either and that's what the laptop is aimed for - typical consumers.

If you or any of the other members want to repair their laptops, perhaps the MBP is not the best product that fits your needs, since the OP stated he wants a laptop with high repairability score so he can work on it, another laptop would be better for him then

 

[cube]

And I'll say it again: the glued battery and soldered RAM are reliability and integrity enhancements.

They are crap, not enhancements.

 

[GermanyChris]

Water damage is not covered by the warranty and as such you cannot expect apple to repair it for free. Even if the repairability score is high, fixing a laptop that shorted out because of water damage is neither easy or cheap.

So my point stands, laptops are not designed to be repaired by the consumer, they never were and even if the damage is caused by negligence on the owner's part. The best approach is to send it to apple (though they'll have to pay for the repair)

you can have the mother board out of conventional MBP's in about a half hr..used motherboards range from $400 to $800 used.

If I dump water on my MBP I can fix it with relative ease at a lower cost. If I need a battery change I can pick them up for 60-80 new all over the internet 2 to 3 screws and be back in business.

no consumer electronic device is intended to be repaired by the consumer but to actively prevent it on a portable which is more prone to damage is disingenuous.

 

[glasgood]

This complaining about the new rMBPs design is SO aggravating.

I mean come on people,

How often do you really change you RAM in a Macbook Pro?

Maybe once in its lifetime that you have it.

For your information, there is a huge market for pre-owned MacBook Pro's.
Also, those second hand MacBook Pros sell at very good value helping to cover the cost of upgrading to a newer MacBook Pro model for most people.

So few years down the line, that soldered RAM and mostly spent battery inside the machine is not going to be appealing to any potential second hand buyer as it will be on the verge of obsolete.

That once in a lifetime need to upgrade the RAM is precious, especially to the second hand buyer.

( The second hand market helps to foot the bill for most people's upgrade to a newer model )

Most people especially in this downturn do not have cash to throw around. Perhaps you MAY just throw yours in the bin and upgrade when it suits your need.

However I would like to sell my machine, ( if selling ) in the knowledge that the new buyer has the option to fit a new battery and increase the memory, thus further extending the longevity of the machine and at the same time gaining myself a nice return back on my investment.

 

[Queen6]

Apple`s path should now be obvious to all; the non Retina MBP days are numbered. Apple is a consumer company, they design product for the consumer, doing their level best to bring the best to market. Apple does not design for the enterprise class or the professional. Apple, ceased serving the professional segment some time ago, as a professional if their product meets your need it`s by coincidence not design.

ThinkPad`s and EliteBook`s are very different beasts, offering far greater durability, modularity, and upgradability nor are they aimed at the average consumer like Mac`s, a fully spec`d HP EliteBook will run you over $4K, will easily give a Retina a run for it`s money and then some...

 

[Liquinn]

Apple`s path should now be obvious to all; the non Retina MBP days are numbered. Apple is a consumer company, they design product for the consumer, doing their level best to bring the best to market. Apple does not design for the enterprise class or the professional. Apple, ceased serving the professional segment some time ago, as a professional if their product meets your need it`s by coincidence not design.

ThinkPad`s and EliteBook`s are very different beasts, offering far greater durability, modularity, and upgradability nor are they aimed at the average consumer like Mac`s, a fully spec`d HP EliteBook will run you over $4K, will easily give a Retina a run for it`s money and then some...

Also, the classic MBP has the MegSafe 1, while the Air and the rMBP have MegSafe 2.

 

[old-wiz]

I consider a PRO laptop as one that has high end components and at the same time is very portable. Not to mention the only upgradeable part about MBP's are the HDD and Ram.

You're right, but Apple calls it a Pro just for advertising purposes.

 

[sjinsjca]

no way any apple notebook can take the beating that the thinkpads, precisions and elitebooks can

Not an IT manager, though I do plenty of PC support!

But, as a three-time Thinkpad owner prior to "going Mac," I can't let the above pass. My Thinkpads were a big improvement over my previous PC laptops from Dell, Sony, Compaq and Toshiba, but they do not hold a candle to the MBP for robustness, reliability and structural integrity. I can't speak to spilling a drink on the keyboard as I've never done that, but I can speak to frequent MOBO replacements, failing connectors, crapped-out backlights and cracked bezels and chassis on the Thinkpads. And I baby my laptops, but they must travel a lot. After three years, the Thinkpads looked like Detroit. The MBPs look like new. Not to mention things like the MagSafe connector which keeps the occasional cable-trip from crashing the machine to the floor.

 

[renosausage]

For your information, there is a huge market for pre-owned MacBook Pro's.
Also, those second hand MacBook Pros sell at very good value helping to cover the cost of upgrading to a newer MacBook Pro model for most people.

So few years down the line, that soldered RAM and mostly spent battery inside the machine is not going to be appealing to any potential second hand buyer as it will be on the verge of obsolete.

That once in a lifetime need to upgrade the RAM is precious, especially to the second hand buyer.

( The second hand market helps to foot the bill for most people's upgrade to a newer model )

Most people especially in this downturn do not have cash to throw around. Perhaps you MAY just throw yours in the bin and upgrade when it suits your need.

However I would like to sell my machine, ( if selling ) in the knowledge that the new buyer has the option to fit a new battery and increase the memory, thus further extending the longevity of the machine and at the same time gaining myself a nice return back on my investment.

8 gigs will not be obsolete even 5 years from now. In fact 4gigs is completely sufficient for most people these days.

I do not have a lot cash to throw in the bin, I wish I did cause that would be totally awesome.

What I do is sell my laptop every 2 years. I can usually sell it in between 1/2 to 3/4 of the price I bought it for.

I really only spend somewhere around 600 dollars every 2 or 3 years for a macbook pro.

You can't expect to be a part of Apple and pay cheap prices. A lot of used Macbooks sell for more than 600 dollars, so technically you are the one throwing money in the bin.

Listen, this move Apple is making is the best route to take. My rMBP is the fastest, lightest, and most powerful laptop I've ever had.

Even 3 years from now it will still be a nice laptop to own. I paid 2000 for it and if Haswell was absolutely awesome, I could sell it for at least 1500 and by another for 2000 (Education Discount.)

That would be 1200 spent total, still cheaper than a good used Macbook

 

[glasgood]

8 gigs will not be obsolete even 5 years from now. In fact 4gigs is completely sufficient for most people these days.

I do not have a lot cash to throw in the bin, I wish I did cause that would be totally awesome.

What I do is sell my laptop every 2 years. I can usually sell it in between 1/2 to 3/4 of the price I bought it for.

I really only spend somewhere around 600 dollars every 2 or 3 years for a macbook pro.

Yes 4GB may be sufficient for some THESE DAYS, keep in mind that 640K was also efficient for some yesteryear.

But who in their right mind is going to offer 3/4 the price for a 2 to 3 year old laptop with a NON REPLACEABLE BATTERY.

 

[swerve147]

Yes 4GB may be sufficient for some THESE DAYS, keep in mind that 640K was also efficient for some yesteryear.

But who in their right mind is going to offer 3/4 the price for a 2 to 3 year old laptop with a NON REPLACEABLE BATTERY.

The rMBP battery is replaceable, it's just not user-replacable:

http://support.apple.com/kb/index?page=servicefaq&geo=United_States&product=Macnotebooks

TBH I'm more concerned about the RAM situation. Will 8GB on an Ivy Bridge notebook be sufficient in 4-5 years? Probably, but in the end we really don't know that answer. At least from the CPU perspective, you would think you're going to need as much RAM as possible to keep up with programs made in 2018 that are optimized for Broadwell/Skylake/Skymont+ PCs.

 

[Count Blah]

They are crap, not enhancements.

The RAM is supposed to be speedier than the user serviceable variant. That being said, I'll take user serviceable over glued/soldered any day. Make it 0.25 inches thicker to give ME the ability to upgrade.

 

[Chupa Chupa]

The days of user upgradable consumer Macs is coming to a close. We'll have to see what Apple offers pro desktop users. But laptops are done & undergoing their morph into iPad deluxes.

So learn to love the sealed MacBooks or learn to love Windows. Those are your options if you want a current business laptop.

 

[Queen6]

Not an IT manager, though I do plenty of PC support!

But, as a three-time Thinkpad owner prior to "going Mac," I can't let the above pass. My Thinkpads were a big improvement over my previous PC laptops from Dell, Sony, Compaq and Toshiba, but they do not hold a candle to the MBP for robustness, reliability and structural integrity. I can't speak to spilling a drink on the keyboard as I've never done that, but I can speak to frequent MOBO replacements, failing connectors, crapped-out backlights and cracked bezels and chassis on the Thinkpads. And I baby my laptops, but they must travel a lot. After three years, the Thinkpads looked like Detroit. The MBPs look like new. Not to mention things like the MagSafe connector which keeps the occasional cable-trip from crashing the machine to the floor.

After many years of corporate Notebooks, I have never had a single issue with a ThinkPad, Dell yes (mostly thanks to NVIDIA), equally the Precisions are in a different category. I have yet to own or use a HP EliteBook for any significant period of time, however they are highly regarded. The high-end enterprise class Notebooks are in a completely different category to Apple`s offering`s, I absolutely hammered my corporate PC`s, not in the office in the field; deserts, jungles tropical & sub tropical, sub arctic etc. Equally I have never had issue with any of my MBP`s outside of normal wear & tear, then again they have never been abused to the same level. Apple bring as great product to market with the MPB, however they are not on the same level as the high-end enterprise Notebooks in durability, expansion, build options etc, ask anyone who has dropped a MBP, had a MBP come in contact with liquid, anyone who has incurred a week or more downtime, anyone who does not fall directly under Apple`s umbrella.

I pretty much work for myself these days, and the most recent Notebook I bought was a ThinkPad T series, and I will likely buy a new portable Workstation class Notebook later this year, it definitely wont be a Mac, as Apple does not design, nor produces business class portables. Don't get me wrong I very much enjoy my 2012 15" Retina and Late 2011 15" MBP and they have served me well, equally I don't confuse a consumer product that can fit the professional role, it`s more coincidence than design...

 

[renosausage]

Yes 4GB may be sufficient for some THESE DAYS, keep in mind that 640K was also efficient for some yesteryear.

But who in their right mind is going to offer 3/4 the price for a 2 to 3 year old laptop with a NON REPLACEABLE BATTERY.

I sold a 2006 Intel Core Duo Mac for 275 around Christmas last year. That's a little over a quarter of the price I paid for it and it was only the most basic MacBook at that time.

The battery was upgradeable but you still had to go to Apple to get one. 3rd Party batteries are not as good. So replacing the battery is no different between the rMBP and my old MacBook.

 

[old-wiz]

I seriously doubt there will even be a Haswell MBP non-retina. a Haswell MBP with everything in the rMBP except the retina screen wouldn't be worth producing.

 

[cube]

The RAM is supposed to be speedier than the user serviceable variant. That being said, I'll take user serviceable over glued/soldered any day. Make it 0.25 inches thicker to give ME the ability to upgrade.

When I replace the RAM, I put faster memory than what Apple sells it with.

No need for soldering except maybe if Apple used new AMD CPUs with GDDR5.

 

[katewes]

Yes because I'm not going to repair it, regardless of the score. I'm going to send it to Apple for repair and with the extended warranty, I really don't have too much to worry.

iFixit's use of the word "repair" clouds the issue. I'd prefer them to have said, the rMBP has an "upgradeability" factor of 1 out of 10.

The average person like maflynn thinks to him/herself, "I'm not going to REPAIR my Mac".

But he/she might very well want to UPGRADE the Mac with more RAM, a SSD etc.

So, maflynn, would you want to upgrade your MBP?

 

[wonderspark]

It's the same old argument... People with extra money to burn don't care, and they are the ones Apple favors most. They can spill the most expensive cup of coffee that $tarbucks has to offer all over their 'Retina' laptop, and they shrug and go to the Apple store, merely inconvenienced with a temporary loss.

Others like to maximize value and stretch their money as far as possible. One might say that buying ANYTHING by Apple is to be wasteful, as they're very expensive... but I like to buy the laptop I want with the CPU/GPU I want, then add my own RAM and SSDs for significant savings. The M500 960GB SSD for less than $600 is a big deal, and I appreciate being able to take advantage of it.

If you're the type that typically owns a hole in the ocean (a yacht) and you have no problem with pouring money down that hole, then Apple loves you and your throw-away device super-consumer attitude. Consume away, and keep the economy strong!

There will always be richer people that don't care about the problems of others less fortunate. If you like the status quo, it means you're not suffering. Lucky you!

 

[Mr MM]

When I replace the RAM, I put faster memory than what Apple sells it with.

No need for soldering except maybe if Apple used new AMD CPUs with GDDR5.

apparently kaveri wont use GDDR5 anymore, its indeed less flexible

 

[cube]

apparently kaveri wont use GDDR5 anymore, its indeed less flexible

I don't know. I read the other day that it will support both DDR3 and GDDR5.

 

[Lolito]

for me it's pretty simple; no more MBP, no more apple laptop... I will switch to widnows 7 + linux mint.

But!!! not yet. Refurbished 2013 MBP will be always there. Looking forward to switch back to windows and forget ****ing parallels. Or I will buy a cheap 500$ asus laptop, and a decent hackintosh.

**** apple and **** ipad deluxe!!