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Discussion in 'MacBook Pro' started by senttoschool, Nov 2, 2017.
It's the same machine it was 12 months ago... Unsure what exactly you would have expected to change.
Try an Apple store, they specialise in selling people computers if you want to be convinced or something.
Yes doomed, like it or lump it as it's one of the pitfalls of a single source hardware for your chosen OS
If its not for you its not for you.
Nothing has changed and it won't (mac sales are up 11% driven by the new MBP's) so get used to them or move to another manufacturer that's your choice.
That's disappointing to hear. I wonder if Apple could have increased sales more if they built a laptop that's less flashy but more functional.
Unfortunately, modern web development prevents me from using any other OS. So I guess the 2015 MBP is still the best option for me.
I was hoping to hear things like improved peripheral support, fixed keyboard, improved battery life from 2016, improved software support for palm detection.
I'm baffled by all these posts by people saying they hate the keyboard. I'm a developer too and I love the new MBP keyboard, it feels much nicer than my old Air. I don't really get the hysteria over ports either, with TB3 I now have a single cable providing power, external display, and several USB 3.0 attachments. That required 3 cables on my old MBA. On the occasion I need to attach a USB A device directly, I use a $5 adapter. The battery on my TB lasts 6-7 hours, I'm not sure in what world that is unreasonable.
I honestly think the people discounting the new MBP are not giving it a chance, USB A has been around since 1997, time to move with the times.
There is nothing flashy about the current Apple laptop lineup. They are 100% pure streamlined minimalist function. And thats why they are getting the criticism. Take for example ports: Apple uses up to four TB3 ports, which are infinitely more flexible* than any other setup on the market and can support any kind of application domain. If this is not functional, I don't know what is. The issue with the ports is certainly not the function but 1) added inconvenience if you need to deal with many legacy external devices (e.g. customer's thumdrives) and 2) added cost since you need to purchase new cables to replace your current USB-A to USB-B etc. stuff.
* and also costs Apple significantly more than any other laptop manufacturer who use cut-down thunderbolt chips across the board
Exactly, people seem to think the only difference is the shape of the ports, they couldn't be more wrong.
The new port arrangement works for you. Congratulations. Guess what: It doesn't work for others. Lets say Apple had done the same with the MBP as they have with the iMac: just replaced the 2 TB2/MiniDP sockets with TB3/USB-C and kept the other ports: You'd still have your single-port docking and everybody else would also be happy. OK, we'd have to get new TB3 and/or display dongles, but we wouldn't need USB-C adapters for everything... or if we did buy USB-C stuff it would be like getting 2 extra USB ports - not just getting back what we had before...
Or, Apple they could have produced separate "ultraportable" and "pro" ranges.
As for the keyboard, some people (apparently) like ultra-low travel keys, others hate them - the old-style keyboards seemed like a much better compromise. If you're only going to offer one style of keyboard on your new laptops then it needs to be a compromise.
I’m not sure what incentive we would have to convince you, and the laptops haven’t changed.
Please explain how USB C "can't work" for you? What you mean is you don't want to spend a few dollars on new cables. You can get USB C flash drives, USB C lightning cables, in fact USB C anything you need. Times change, sorry but your 1997 USB A cables/peripherals are obsolete. USB C is the future, in a year all phones will have it too and then we will truly have a single standard for everything.
The shape of the ports is kinda fundamental if it doesn't match all of the perfectly good equipment you already have.
Then there's the bottom line that the old rMBP could connect to two USB3 devices, a HDMI display, a DisplayPort/Thunderbolt display, a MagSafe charger (which might be built into your display) and a second Thunderbolt device and a SD card without a dock or multi-port adapter in sight.
Given that TB2 and USB3 were already fast enough for the majority of applications, that's a huge sacrifice in practicality for the majority for the benefit of a handful of people who want to connect two 5k displays and a pair of SSD RAID arrays (on a machine with a thermally hobbled CPU and mobile-class GPU)
...and, anyway, I think most people would have happily accepted a MBP that just swapped TB2 for TB3/USB-C and kept the other ports, at least for a couple of years until there's a critical mass of USB-C/3.1g2 and TB3 devices. At the moment, the lion's share of TB3 devices are just docks that give us back the ports we lost but still need, or external drives that wouldn't have taxed TB2.
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What about my 2017 USB A peripherals?
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And have a laptop that looks like a spider with half a dozen cables coming out of it? Or one single USB C cable with a $25 hub neatly hidden under your desk. Tough choice.
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If you really don't want to use a dock which makes life much easier, you can buy a USB-C equivalent of any USB A cable for a few dollars on Amazon. Seems strange that people are in uproar over spending $20 on a few new cables for a $2000 computer.
You seem to be missing the point of USB-C when you say docks give you back the ports you need. The point is those ports differ and it's impossible to provide a computer which contains all of the port options, different ports are needed due to differing technologies. USB-C can be all of those ports, so you don't need to worry about having an obsolete port on your computer as it can fit anything, unlike having say a VGA/HDMI/DP or other port and needing the upgrade the entire computer just to use a new standard, that new standard is USB-C.
This isn't some new propriety Apple port to scam you out of more money, it is the new standard. My Lenovo work laptop has USB C - that means I can use the same single cable to connect both my work PC and personal Mac to power, an external monitor and peripherals. That's a big win. USB C is also the port of choice for the Nintendo Switch and new Samsung phones, it will almost certainly be replacing Lightning on next years iPhones too. Clinging on to USB A is a losing battle.
Why didn't you buy USB C its 2017. And the port makes no difference to 99% of peripherals as they have removable cables that can be replaced with whatever you need.
I do understand that people still have and use USB A cables, but they've had a 20 year innings which is pretty good by technology standards. What happened to Firewire 800? That was redundant after about 5 years. I'm no fan of waste either so I took my old USB A cables to a charity shop.
...which is better than not being able to connect those connectors at all because you don't have the right adapters in your bag.
...which, of course, was always an option with the old TB2/DP ports (Oh, you needed a separate charge cable - the horror!), and would still be an option if Apple had just swapped TB3 for TB2. Now, it's a necessity.
Anyway, like most of the USB-C evangelists, you're operating in USB-C alternative facts mode. A $25 USB-C hub shares a single USB 3.1 connection between all its ports - provided that you're only using 2 DisplayPort lanes. Connect a single 4k@60Hz display needing 4 DP lanes and everything else on the hub falls back to USB 2.0. You need a $300 TB3 dock to get equivalent connectivity to directly-connected USB3/HDMI/DisplayPort. Oh and if you actually, like, move your laptop around (maybe commute between home and work) make that a $300 dock under every desk you use.
TB3 stuff is expensive. USB-C stuff, at the end of the day, is just a single USB 3 port and a DisplayPort moshed together and contending for 4 high-speed data pairs. Oh yes, and it can power your laptop - so if you don't have a multiport adapter in your pocket you have to waste one pf your high-speed I/O/external display ports by using it as a charge socket.
Just like Thunderbolt 1&2 - and ExpressCard before it - and PCMCIA before that - could be used to add new ports. Somehow, though, nobody ever said "Hey, we've got a PCMCIA slot that can take an adapter card for anything, so we don't need any other ports..."
...USB-C/TB3 ports on a MBP would be fine - just not instead of all the other useful ports.
Well no it wasn't, because as you've said yourself TB2 and DisplayPort did not carry sufficient power.
Yes if you want 60hz 4k you will need to connect either directly to a USB C port, or use a more expensive TB3 dock. Sorry remind me exactly which USB A ports or docks support 4k/60hz? Oh, none. You seem perfectly happy to have six cables connected to your computer above, so why not one to a USB C hub and another to the 4k display? 2 is still better than six.
Ans: it lost the standards battle to USB and became a niche standard for Mac users and MiniDV cameras, which is why FW800 today is a "legacy" interface and USB-A is still ubiquitous. Interesting to note the fact that USB1/2/3 kept a standard (or at least backward-compatible) connector, whereas FireWire 800 forced people to buy new cables and adapters for their FW400 equipment...
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Ans: they didn't need to because there's a Thunderbolt/MiniDP port right next to them that you can plug your 4k display into, leaving the USB port free for a full-speed USB3 device.
Or you could spend a little more and get one of these it’s more portable than a lot of cables has all the ports you need and is under $80.
No different to having to buy a new case for a new phone or tablet, new lenses for a new camera, technology upgrades come with associated costs always have always will if you don’t like it you can slowly become obsolete.
You can still do that, just use a USB C to HDMI cable or adapter. Sorry but it's a non argument, the new MBP is simply not less expandable than the older models (the TB version anyway, I agree 2 ports on the low end MBP is a bit crap.)
...please point me to the USB-C monitor speakers, the USB-C midi keyboard, the USB-C electronic wind instrument controller, the really cheap double-ended USB-C/USB-A thumb drives (because I have multiple computers and not all of them have USB-C) or prior to this July the desktop Mac with USB-C ports that I could have plugged them in to.
...and then, even if you find one or two examples, explain why USB-C should have been the unique selling point, bearing in mind that none of those devices would benefit from using USB-C and that I'd still need to buy USB-A-to-C adapters if I wanted to use them across all of my computers.
But the only one of those things that doesn't have a removable cable is the thumb drive? And you can buy a 32GB thumb drive with both USB A & C for under $20.
Keep your 2015.
It is, on balance, better than the 2016 models.