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Having an existential crisis

I've moved to USB-C for my rMB and haven't looked back. It's amazing to finally have one connection for literally everything.

It's just a few new cables for the most part. Not new devices.

As others mentioned, C is becoming the new industry standard. I'm just glad Apple has chosen to adopt C and not some proprietary port.
 
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Rockadile said:
Why wouldn't I want a dedicated port for Apple's own phone and tablet?
Free up a port, one less adapter, and you can't say it will compromise structural rigidity.

I don't see how it will be useless for it. There's got to be a sizeable amount of laptop owners that use it in clamshell mode making it tedious to open the lid every time to use touch ID. Have the phone charging as well, got to do it everyday anyhow. Why not make it convenient?
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Ok, so you don't want a perfectly working USB-C to Lightning because it requires an adapter for your USB-A to Lightning cable or buying a new cable? Correct? And the solution is to put a lightning connector on a computer dedicated for this one device? Right?

Now here's a question – how are you going to connect two female lightning ports together? With another cable that doesn't even exist yet and will be never used for anything else?
 
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eroslws said:
Exactly. Dongles are a consumer-created problem because people want to hang on to legacy technology. The new MacBooks have four IO ports using a modern and non-proprietary interface. This is the laptop of the future; it's not Apple's fault a vocal minority aren't ready.
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I could just as well say that dongles are an industry-created problem because certain companies refuse to put commonly-used ports in their computers.

Users are right to think: why should I throw away my mouse, my keyboard, my external HDD, my USB drives, my SD cards, all of which work perfectly, and get what exactly? The USB-C replacements with the same functionality, which are few and usually more expensive.? The alternative is a sea of dongles and cables that Apple helpfully sells starting at $19.99.

This is not the laptop of the future. It's last year's laptop by most accounts (CPU, memory, graphics), with a bunch of ports that almost nobody uses.

Will the future give us more USB-C? Yes, probably. The rather distant one. Perhaps in 5 years or so.

In the meantime, betting it all on USB-C ports is about as stupid as betting it on the Thunderbolt connectors that almost nobody used, and the only things people connected to them were dongles to convert them into actually useful ports.

The cherry on the cake is that Apple's own iPhone not only cannot directly connect to the new MBPs without buying another overpriced cable from Apple, but it actually uses a different connector. If USB-C was the future and Apple believed it so, they should have put USB-C in the iPhone. Then there was all that talk about the courage to remove the "legacy", dead headphone jack, now promptly reinstated.

This tells me there's no vision in respect to connectivity at Apple. Please stop making excuses for people who are so obviously rudderless.
 
Adding all the complaints up, if Apple would have kept the thunderbolt, USB-A, SD, magsafe, HDMI, and added a USB-C everybody would be happy.

And in 2 years we'd all be whining about why they couldn't anticipate the need for more USB-C, and the magsafe is unnecessary, and who needs a USB-A anymore...
 
MattSeven said:
And in 2 years we'd all be whining about why they couldn't anticipate the need for more USB-C, and the magsafe is unnecessary, and who needs a USB-A anymore...
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That's highly unlikely. I haven't seen any complaints about MagSafe and it's improbable that anything would have changed in the next two years. Also, I predict that in two years, USB-A devices will still be the majority (i.e. >50%) of devices sold with USB connectivity.

The problem with USB-C is not that it's bad. It's not. It's a great little port, I have it on my phone and I love it. I wish my iPad had it too.

The problem is that USB-A solved a much bigger issue - it offered a general connectivity solution to replace PS2/serial/parallel/SCSI/etc while providing power and eventually standard functionality classes, so no more driver hell.

What USB-C does is, for most users, is to offer the same thing in a smaller, reversible connector. That's just a far less compelling proposition. It's a refinement. And as such it lacks the energy to drive fast adoption. It's like 4k BluRay vs 1080p BluRay. Great, but unnecessary.

Yes I believe that eventually we'll move to USB-C. Not now though, and not in two years.

The reasonable move from Apple would have been to offer a mix of USB-C and other ports (most notably, USB-A). This is what most other manufacturers do, and with good reason. Offering just one USB-C port is forward looking, considering that the huge majority of people have no USB-C devices.

The fact that Apple offered only USB-C, while at the same time leaving their mobile devices with Lightning, is not visionary but erratic behaviour.
 
maratus said:
You're correct. The best motivation for all accessory makers is our inconvenience without their products and only Apple can afford to sacrifice its customer base for the task.

People are just complaining because they are used as leverage and it's totally understandable.
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Usb C being the dominant standard and having by default an accessory ecosystem is good for consumer too.

Peoples complain about dongles.

I have a bag at home full of weird usb cable. Micro usb, usb b, usb b 3.0, mini usb, mini usb 3.0, etc.

USB C is designed to work on a single cable.

for now its annoying, but in the long/medium run its way better this way even for consumers.

Plus, USB C to USB A adapter are so cheap...
 
symphara said:
I wonder how long does it take to copy 80Gb of music on an iPhone 7, using WiFi. Days, I imagine. What do you do if you need it faster?
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Days to transfer 80Gb? Maybe a couple of hours. And the USB 2.0 speeds of the iPhone 7 Lightning port aren't noticeably better than a good wireless N or AC home network.

And if you need songs right away? Well that's what Apple Music is for, of course ;)
 
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BeatCrazy said:
And if you need songs right away? Well that's what Apple Music is for, of course ;)
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It's downright magical how Apple generally inconveniences users by allowing a very restricted subset of use cases, and how this funnelling process tends to make Apple more money. If they spend any money on R&D, that's it right there: how to screw more and more cash out of your users.
 
symphara said:
The reasonable move from Apple would have been to offer a mix of USB-C and other ports (most notably, USB-A). This is what most other manufacturers do, and with good reason. Offering just one USB-C port is forward looking, considering that the huge majority of people have no USB-C devices.

The fact that Apple offered only USB-C, while at the same time leaving their mobile devices with Lightning, is not visionary but erratic behaviour.
Click to expand...

My point was, everyone has their port they don't want to lose -- but how reasonable is it that everyone has to be saddled with yet another port because the particular user can't give it up?

It's not all going in there.
 
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The problem including USB-C, it's ONLY have USB-C. There are very few device out their that support USB-C right now. So the better solution would be to have 1/2 USB-C ports, 1/2 USB-A ports and and older style MagSafe and DisplayPort.

Then as more anymore USB-C device are released they can eliminate the extra ports.
Did Apple kill 3.5mm port the moment Bluetooth headphones were available? No they waited thill there were tons of options and many people already used them.

That being what they should do but won't is as follows.
Kill existing MacBook Air Completely
Rename existing MacBook to MacBook Air
Bring back Old style non-Retine MacBookPro and rename To MacBook and update internals.
Then eliminate new non-Touch Bar MacBooks pro.
Keep new MacBook line as is, maybe drop price a bit.

Then you have laptop at every price for every type of user.
 
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technosinner said:
So, the new MBP... Most people here seem to be thrilled, but am I the only one who doesn't understand the point of having a laptop needing so many dongles and adapters? My mouse is not bluetooth, I don't own any USB-C cables or devices nor do I have any compatible hubs...

I mean, I get the idea and at first I wasn't against the idea, but the more I think about it the more I fail to see how this would be a good portable computer.
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How is portability impacted?

I'll need to carry one extra cable -- USB C to USB A. This will let me plug in old USB thumb drives. Frankly, they're all slower than snot, and I primarily use AirDrop, but I'll have one just in case.

One extra cable in my backpack doesn't impact the portability of this computer for me in the slightest.
 
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MattSeven said:
My point was, everyone has their port they don't want to lose -- but how reasonable is it that everyone has to be saddled with yet another port because the particular user can't give it up?
Click to expand...
USB is not just any port. It's the one almost all of us use. We're not discussing an I2C or SCSI interface here.

You can be future-proof and put one or two TB3-enabled USB-C ports, and then put one or two regular USB ports. They physically fit - if they work on the Air, they'd work on the new Macbook.

And USB-C adoption is very, very low. It's ridiculous to leave out USB-A and MagSafe and put in a port almost nobody uses - least of all, Mac users. Ridiculous for the buyers that is. Apple saved cash all around with such a super-lazy decision, and best of all, they get to sell overpriced dongles and cables. You can buy cheaper ones from Amazon, yes, but as shown before, bad USB-C stuff can fry your ports and devices, so Apple is safe thinking that people who already parted with the better part of $2k will also spend a few hundred more.

What really surprises me is the amount of time it took them to come up with these new "MehBooks". Already obsolete specs, stupid connectivity, removal of useful stuff all around, a keyboard slightly better than the worst, outrageous pricing, why did it take so long to deliver this crapfest?
 
solarguy17 said:
There are very few device out their that support USB-C right now.
Click to expand...
But isn't it also true that there are very few devices out there now that support USB-A?

My iPhone supports Lightning.
My iPad supports Lightning.
My old iPod supports the 30-pin dock connector.
My printer supports USB-B.
My external drives are a mix of USB connectors, but none are USB-A.
My camera supports USB-micro.

To me, about the only devices that support USB-A are thumb drives and wired keyboards/mice.

I get that it's an inconvenience and extra cost to have to replace exist USB-A "dongles and adapters" with new ones that end with USB-C, but I'm really not seeing where this is a true hardship.
 
aristobrat said:
But isn't it also true that there are very few devices out there now that support USB-A?

My iPhone supports Lightning.
My iPad supports Lightning.
My old iPod supports the 30-pin dock connector.
My printer supports USB-B.
My external drives are a mix of USB connectors, but none are USB-A.
My camera supports USB-micro.

To me, about the only devices that support USB-A are thumb drives and wired keyboards/mice.

I get that it's an inconvenience and extra cost to have to replace exist USB-A "dongles and adapters" with new ones that end with USB-C, but I'm really not seeing where this is a true hardship.
Click to expand...
USB-A is the physical connector on the host side, before USB-C. All those devices you list there connect to the computer using its USB-A connector.
 
symphara said:
USB-A is the physical connector on the host side, before USB-C. All those devices you list there connect to the computer using its USB-A connector.
Click to expand...
None of those devices connect directly. They all currently require a "cable or adapter" to connect. To me, it doesn't matter if that cable ends with USB A (like it has for the past decade) or USB C (like it will going forward).
 
aristobrat said:
None of those devices connect directly. They all currently require a "cable or adapter" to connect. To me, it doesn't matter if that cable ends with USB A (like it has for the past decade) or USB C (like it will going forward).
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Clearly, some do, in your own example (the USB drives). I also have keyboards, mice and UPSes that have no changeable interconnects and hook directly into a USB-A host.

So what you're saying is that people shouldn't mind buying new interconnects, adaptors where needed, for absolutely no good reason. That's not a reasonable position. You might not mind, but if you ask people to just waste a bunch of cash on new interconnects and adaptors that otherwise don't make their lives better in any way, shape or form, most will probably disagree with you.

In fact, buying new interconnects and adaptors will make everybody except for Apple worse off. Instead of plugging your USB device into your computer, you have to find the appropriate cable/dongle/adaptor/etc. You have an additional step, on top of the cost. You probably have other computers around the house, so it's not like you get to replace the USB-A stuff cables with USB-C cables. No Sir, those new USB-C cables are in addition to the old ones.

Let's recap. It will cost people more. It will take longer to plug in things. You have to carry the new dongles and adaptors. You might lose them. You'll have more cables in your house than before, unless literally the new "MehBook" is the only computer you have. Yeah, great stuff.
 
technosinner said:
My mouse is not bluetooth
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Are you sure you need a portable computer? :D

Kidding aside, what people don't seem to understand is that USB-C is backwards compatible. Yes, you can us a dongle to convert to a USB-A port, but that is a half-measure and generalized solution just to make sure everything will still work without any effort. The true solution is using new cables. Any USB-B, Micro-B, or Mini-B can just use a new cable to connect to USB-C. So no dongle, just a $3-$5 cable from amazon.

Thunderbolt is a different story as you need a more expensive adapter for those devices, but if you are invested in TB already you have already spent a crap ton of money on devices/cables, so one more adapter or crossover cable isn't going to break the bank.
 
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aristobrat said:
But isn't it also true that there are very few devices out there now that support USB-A?

My iPhone supports Lightning.
My iPad supports Lightning.
My old iPod supports the 30-pin dock connector.
My printer supports USB-B.
My external drives are a mix of USB connectors, but none are USB-A.
My camera supports USB-micro.

To me, about the only devices that support USB-A are thumb drives and wired keyboards/mice.

I get that it's an inconvenience and extra cost to have to replace exist USB-A "dongles and adapters" with new ones that end with USB-C, but I'm really not seeing where this is a true hardship.
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure USB-A is the standard USB connector.

And if you look at your micro-USB cables, Lightning Cables, 30Pin Cables, USB-B cable, etc they all have USB-A on the other side.
 
eroslws said:
Exactly. Dongles are a consumer-created problem because people want to hang on to legacy technology. The new MacBooks have four IO ports using a modern and non-proprietary interface. This is the laptop of the future; it's not Apple's fault a vocal minority aren't ready.
Click to expand...

Right, so why does Apple's current offerings for wired keyboards and mice all still use USB-A ports? Why does their brand new iPhone 7 sell with a USB-A to lightning cable? If this is the laptop of the future, why did apple include the "ancient" technology the 3.5 mm jack??
 
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aristobrat said:
But isn't it also true that there are very few devices out there now that support USB-A?

My iPhone supports Lightning.
My iPad supports Lightning.
My old iPod supports the 30-pin dock connector.
My printer supports USB-B.
My external drives are a mix of USB connectors, but none are USB-A.
My camera supports USB-micro.

To me, about the only devices that support USB-A are thumb drives and wired keyboards/mice.

I get that it's an inconvenience and extra cost to have to replace exist USB-A "dongles and adapters" with new ones that end with USB-C, but I'm really not seeing where this is a true hardship.
Click to expand...
Type A is just the port. You can run USB 2.0/3.0/3.1G2 over it, with both ends being different kinds of ports, e.g. A-C, C-C, microB-C or whatever.
 
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