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HD-DVD vs Blu-Ray Battle Over? Warner Switches to Blu-Ray

Macaroni Joe said:
I've read in several places before that what pushed VHS over the top in the tape format war was the fact that adult filmmakers had to go with VHS. Sony didn't want to be connected with them via the huge copying houses. Well, unless Sony changes it's tune, it might well happen again in this format war. Check out this video taped by G4TV at the Adult Entertainment Expo (which was right next door to this years CES in Vegas).
http://www.g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/post/672773/AdultFilm_Director_Talks_BluRay.html
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Hustler expected Wal-Mart| (NYSE:WMT - News) and other discount retailers to slash prices on HD DVD players over the holidays, which is in fact what happened. Also adding to HD DVD's appeal was that replicating companies charge only about half the amount per disc to reproduce that format than they do for Blu-ray, Rosenfeld says.

Key Role of Replicators

Now Hustler has to consider switching to Blu-ray, but few replication houses are geared up to work with the format yet, Rosenfeld says. Making things more difficult, porn producers have to find companies that are friendly to the industry. He says many won't work with pornography companies.
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http://biz.yahoo.com/cnbc/080111/22611013.html

As a "new story", the topic of "adult films" and "HD" needs to have the note "developing". Recent moves have really swung things in a new direction.

Eight companies worldwide can replicate Blu-ray Discs, Hirsch said. Two of those companies are controlled by Sony, which won't allow them to handle pornography. Five other companies have contracts to replicate discs for Walt Disney, which stipulate that they cannot handle adult films if they want to work with Disney.

That leaves one possible replicator for the adult industry, and Hirsch is keeping its name a closely guarded secret. He doesn't want to give rivals easy access to a company it was hard for him to find.
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http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,128742-c,dvddrivesmedia/article.html

I think the HD DVD group (and the format) made it easy for replicators to get up and running. Blu-Ray is so NEW, it requires some serious effort and investment. They'll be more replicators. It doesn't sound like Sony is blocking it, just not allowing companies IT owns to do it. --Which makes sense. Same with Disney partners.

~ CB
 
I think that porn will have no influence on this battle as downloadable porn is the future (as well as all other content).... less embarrassing then going to the store to buy it and immediate "satisfaction" from your home.
I own both HD DVD and Blu-Ray. HD-DVD is still better due to the codec and other issues, but that will change rapidly as Blu-Ray gets their production issues ironed out.
But both formats are dead on delivery as downloadable content will take over.
Comcast is deploying cable with download speeds that are incredible. They demoed a full HD transfer of Batman in around 5 minutes compared to the norm of 5 hours and they are rolling this technology out this year.
http://marketplace.publicradio.org/display/web/2008/01/08/comcast
Bye bye physical media.
 
megfilmworks said:
But both formats are dead on delivery as downloadable content will take over.
Comcast is deploying cable with download speeds that are incredible. They demoed a full HD transfer of Batman in around 5 minutes compared to the norm of 5 hours and they are rolling this technology out this year.
http://marketplace.publicradio.org/display/web/2008/01/08/comcast
Bye bye physical media.
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The thing about ISPs, speaking of Comcast, is that I'm sick of paying their monthly fees. I am also a fan of the physical disc for this particular medium. It does look increasingly like my discs will be ones I burned rather than ones I bought at a local store, though.
 
Format war?

A lot of people uninformed consumers think that they have to replace their entire DVD collection if they go to BD or HD-DVD. I spent the entire holiday season explaining to my extended family the differences between the formats and the fact that they can still play their DVDs. Once they knew the difference and the fact they can keep their DVDs, they all said BD would be what they'd go. If I were a film maker, why wouldn't I want a media that is bigger in capacity? and for porn, don't most people just download that anyhow? Yet, as for online rentals, I'll drive to a $1.00 kiosk in a grocery store if I want something for 24 hours, and if I want to keep the movie, I'll buy BD. Anyway, just my two cents.
 
Shua said:
Not so new to some, but it might be new to others.
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LOL. All things relative. You realize the specification was changed last year and that 1.0 player owners are being called "early adopters", right? All things relative my friend. Blu-Ray isn't "new" but it can be "so new" as it relates to the market. I'm sure you know that though. The format is still "so new" to being a mainstream consumer good, that public education/awareness is still catching up... believe it or not.

~ CB
 
Shua said:
Not so new to some, but it might be new to others.
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I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and clear up my comment. Half the time I assume people are on the same page, and I may have glazed over some detail... In my previous post, I said:
I think the HD DVD group (and the format) made it easy for replicators to get up and running. Blu-Ray is so NEW, it requires some serious effort and investment. They'll be more replicators. It doesn't sound like Sony is blocking it, just not allowing companies IT owns to do it. --Which makes sense. Same with Disney partners.
Click to expand...
On of the reasons why HD DVD replicators had an easier time, is that the process was more "familiar", as HD DVD was based off of the same legacy technology DVD's use. Conversely, Blu-Ray uses a NEWER technology that requires much more effort and investment to get going if you're in the disc replication business. Hopefully that makes more sense to you... if you thought I was implying that Blu-Ray suddenly popped out of no where. :D

~ CB
 
Same side of the coin just different angles. I was speaking of blu-ray computer media not so much the movie format. But very good point non-the-less.
 
megfilmworks said:
I think that porn will have no influence on this battle as downloadable porn is the future (as well as all other content).... less embarrassing then going to the store to buy it and immediate "satisfaction" from your home.
I own both HD DVD and Blu-Ray. HD-DVD is still better due to the codec and other issues, but that will change rapidly as Blu-Ray gets their production issues ironed out.
But both formats are dead on delivery as downloadable content will take over.
Comcast is deploying cable with download speeds that are incredible. They demoed a full HD transfer of Batman in around 5 minutes compared to the norm of 5 hours and they are rolling this technology out this year.
http://marketplace.publicradio.org/display/web/2008/01/08/comcast
Bye bye physical media.
Click to expand...
Why do you keep on talking about the codecs? Look on Wikipedia at the comparison of the formats if you don't believe any of us for crying out loud. HD DVD and Blu-ray support the same codecs except Blu-ray is able to support them at a higher bandwidth (bitrate) for better video and sound quality in high action shots. Most releases in the last year on Blu-ray have been AVC or VC-1 at bit rate higher than what HD DVD could support with or without TL51.

When a studio decided to use MPEG2 instead of VC-1 or AVC it was because they felt it would provide the best picture for the content. There are times when source material requires MPEG2 because of bugs or inherent design decisions in the other codecs.

You don't have to take my word for it, go over to blu-ray.com and ask the insiders there including K-Jack who is an expert compression technician IIRC.

Why do you insist on spreading misinformation and pushing downloads? Do you work for MSFT? I'm beginning to think so.
 
Cleverboy said:
#1.) No Region Codes (which would prevent you from playing U.S. HD DVD's in Europe)
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Isn't there still the matter of NTSC and PAL?
I don't think any of the HD-DVD players on the U.S. market are multi-format (PAL/NTSC), but I could be wrong.
I looked at the 5 Toshiba manuals (U.S. models HD-A20, HD-XA2, HD-A2, HD-XA1, HD-A1) on Toshibas website, and it says "This player can play pictures of the NTSC color system only" in all of them.
The European models specify PAL/NTSC, however.

It is nice that the HD-DVD spec doesn't use region coding, though.
 
juniormaj said:
Isn't there still the matter of NTSC and PAL?
I don't think any of the HD-DVD players on the U.S. market are multi-format (PAL/NTSC), but I could be wrong.
I looked at the 5 Toshiba manuals (U.S. models HD-A20, HD-XA2, HD-A2, HD-XA1, HD-A1) on Toshibas website, and it says "This player can play pictures of the NTSC color system only" in all of them.
The European models specify PAL/NTSC, however.

It is nice that the HD-DVD spec doesn't use region coding, though.
Click to expand...

PAL/NTSC mattered for analog component, S-video, etc. I don't think it matters for HDMI at 24Hz especially. There could still be a problem between 50Hz and 60Hz, but HDMI is HDMI. There are lots of people that use european hd-dvds and blurays here. Remember, DVD region coding was strictly enforced. BD region coding is different since there are only 3 regions and most BDs play in all regions.
 
Well I guess Toshiba is not giving up just yet. Slashing player prices and going all out on a marketing blitz. Probably too little too late, but for those of us that own HD DVD it is nice to see we might get a little more time out of our investment. It appears that Toshiba is basically gunning for the standard upconverted DVD player market. If prices are low enough they figure that consumers might pay a few more dollars to have the ability to play upconverted DVD or HD DVD. I still figure I will end up having to add a Blu-ray player or a dual format player by next year anyhow. Also rumors sound like Universal and Paramount are going to give them more time, however if things go down the crapper for them I doubt it will last more then a few months to a year at best. I guess if the player prices are low enough I can't see why someone would buy an SD DVD player over an HD DVD player. Will we see them go under $100 by summer? I would not doubt it.

http://www.rttnews.com/sp/breakingnews.asp?date=01/14/2008&item=6

http://www.tradingmarkets.com/.site/news/BREAKING NEWS/984361/
 
Toshiba is slashing their HD-A3 series of players to get rid of inventory that they were not able to sell off when they were unloading their surplus HD-A2's manufactured in January 2007 through deep discounts over the christmas season.

Folks, ask yourself this question. Why didn't Toshiba announce new HD DVD models at CES? The answer is obvious. Toshiba knew the Warner switch was coming but they just did not expect the timing of it (before CES).
 
This is purely anecdotal, but make of it what you will.

Everybody at work is now excited about Blu-Ray. People are excited about HD disc but wanted to wait for a clear winner. Now we have the clear winner, and there's a lot of sudden excitement over Blu-Ray. The group of techies I work with are now mostly all considering how to jump in to Blu.

I was in a Sam's club on Sunday, and they had a few displays set up to show off Blu-Ray (one was just the Sony 301 player, the other had three players including PS3, both were kiosks with 50" TVs running demos and a selection of discs). They also had a section of Blu-Ray discs in their DVD aisle. Now I haven't been in Sam's since before Xmas and I don't recall seeing either HD format, so I think they must have just added the Blu-Ray stuff. I kid you not, there were crowds of people 5 thick at both displays, you would have thought it was the day before Christmas in there by the way I had to dodge left and right to grab a peek over people's shoulders, as the salesmen were trying to explain something they clearly weren't familiar with yet.

Toshiba's moves are just post-mortem twitching and jockeying for position. The war is over. Time now to repair the damage.
 
janstett said:
This is purely anecdotal, but make of it what you will.

Everybody at work is now excited about Blu-Ray. People are excited about HD disc but wanted to wait for a clear winner. Now we have the clear winner, and there's a lot of sudden excitement over Blu-Ray. The group of techies I work with are now mostly all considering how to jump in to Blu.

I was in a Sam's club on Sunday, and they had a few displays set up to show off Blu-Ray (one was just the Sony 301 player, the other had three players including PS3, both were kiosks with 50" TVs running demos and a selection of discs). They also had a section of Blu-Ray discs in their DVD aisle. Now I haven't been in Sam's since before Xmas and I don't recall seeing either HD format, so I think they must have just added the Blu-Ray stuff. I kid you not, there were crowds of people 5 thick at both displays, you would have thought it was the day before Christmas in there by the way I had to dodge left and right to grab a peek over people's shoulders, as the salesmen were trying to explain something they clearly weren't familiar with yet.

Toshiba's moves are just post-mortem twitching and jockeying for position. The war is over. Time now to repair the damage.
Click to expand...

Oh I agree that people are getting excited about Blu-ray and really Toshiba and Sony need to make peace. Allow Toshiba to build dual format players for a decent price to transition people over and stop further HD DVD releases and let them in on some of the royalties.

I still feel that price is an obstacle for Blu-ray. It looks like we are heading into a recession and unless Blu-ray gets their head in the game as far as movie and player pricing it is going still be a very slow take-off. That is even with HD DVD out of the picture. They have to move at a reasonable speed to avoid becoming a niche format. DVD is still a force to contend with. A HUGE force. I own an HD DVD player, but I have no issues adding a Blu-ray player or a dual format player if prices get better over the next year.
 
Toshiba's price cuts will add sales but I doubt it has nearly the desired effect that they hope it will

As someone else said, the Blu-Ray still has the momentum and companies behind it now

In addition, I expect a big year for the PS3
 
aristotle said:
Toshiba knew the Warner switch was coming but they just did not expect the timing of it (before CES).
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No, they didn't know it was coming. Toshiba had a deal involving Warner and Fox both coming to HDVD. Fox backed out at the last minute and that drove Warner lean towards Blu. It almost went the other way (HD DVD would've had majority studio support if the deal went through).

As a PS3 owner, I was very happy at the announcement. But it was very very close to being another Sony disaster.
 
bigbossbmb said:
No, they didn't know it was coming. Toshiba had a deal involving Warner and Fox both coming to HDVD. Fox backed out at the last minute and that drove Warner lean towards Blu. It almost went the other way (HD DVD would've had majority studio support if the deal went through).

As a PS3 owner, I was very happy at the announcement. But it was very very close to being another Sony disaster.
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That was a hoax just like the Disney switching to HD DVD in January rumor. You can go ahead and read about the Disney one on Highdef digest (if the mods have not nuked the thread) where a blu-ray supporter revealed themselves to be the "source" of it and that they were having a little fun at the expense of one of the founders of that site who is a major HD DVD fanboy. The original author of the fake insider email quoted the contents of the email he sent. This pay off of Fox and Warner also started with the same fool at HDD claiming that he had a source. Both a Fox VP and Warner CEO have denied payoffs and pointed out that the alleged pay offs would have been too small in comparison to the potential sales after the wars ends to accept and risk prolonging the war even further.

You can read up on it at Bill Hunt's Digital bits. Bill has had direct contact with blu-ray insiders (confirmed by the well known insiders themselves).
 
aristotle said:
Toshiba is slashing their HD-A3 series of players to get rid of inventory that they were not able to sell off when they were unloading their surplus HD-A2's manufactured in January 2007 through deep discounts over the christmas season.

Folks, ask yourself this question. Why didn't Toshiba announce new HD DVD models at CES? The answer is obvious. Toshiba knew the Warner switch was coming but they just did not expect the timing of it (before CES).
Click to expand...

Perhaps because they just released the 3rd generation players in NOVEMBER? They were not planning to release any players at CES at all because they had just recently released new players.

aristotle said:
That was a hoax just like the Disney switching to HD DVD in January rumor. You can go ahead and read about the Disney one on Highdef digest (if the mods have not nuked the thread) where a blu-ray supporter revealed themselves to be the "source" of it and that they were having a little fun at the expense of one of the founders of that site who is a major HD DVD fanboy. The original author of the fake insider email quoted the contents of the email he sent. This pay off of Fox and Warner also started with the same fool at HDD claiming that he had a source. Both a Fox VP and Warner CEO have denied payoffs and pointed out that the alleged pay offs would have been too small in comparison to the potential sales after the wars ends to accept and risk prolonging the war even further.

You can read up on it at Bill Hunt's Digital bits. Bill has had direct contact with blu-ray insiders (confirmed by the well known insiders themselves).
Click to expand...

I love how you cite Bill Hunt as some credible, unbiased source. He's as biased as anyone else. There were reports from multiple people, including some BD insiders, that Fox/Warner were going with HD DVD. HD DVD had a 2 hour press conference planned at CES. I personally think Fox played Warner/HD DVD/Blu-ray in order to get a bigger payout from the BDA and it worked out great for them. They never REALLY had any intention of going to HD DVD, but it sounds to me like Warner wanted to go to HD DVD and made the right choice for the market once Fox decided to stick with Blu-ray. Warner went with the format that had the most studios, which meant that they could end the war quicker by going with Blu-ray.

Meanwhile, it looks to me like Apple is saying "see ya" to optical formats altogether with the new Macbook/AppleTV announcements. Jobs even had a slide for the Macbook where he talked about the reasons we supposedly don't need an optical drive, and two of those reasons were downloads (movies, music).
 
The full week of sales after the WB announcement

HD-DVD 15% Sales of HD media (35% previous week)
Blu-Ray 85% Sales of HD media (65% previous week)

Just for the record HD-DVD had no release last week but they also did not make the top 10 in HD sales with any of the previous released titles as well.

I believe the 20th of this month is the six-month anniversary of HD-DVD buying Paramount’s support for 18 months. I assume there is a standard escape clause at six months if HD-DVD starts sinking.

Oh.. and for the record Paramount is 100% behind HD-DVD until the second they pull the “Get out of Free” clause.

Just remember that WB said they were going to stay natural as well until they got a preview of Blu-Ray sales for fourth Quarter.
 
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