Again, sure. But it doesn't really change the somewhat "shady" part of the deal that comes into play in a situation like this.oh well. not our fault. next time the person will learn to read everything and understand everything.
Again, sure. But it doesn't really change the somewhat "shady" part of the deal that comes into play in a situation like this.oh well. not our fault. next time the person will learn to read everything and understand everything.
Again, sure. But it doesn't really change the somewhat "shady" part of the deal that comes into play in a situation like this.
We certainly can and do have our opinions. But as I've pointed out, the part of the carrier getting something for nothing, while a customer losing something with nothing in return for it, certainly doesn't come off as a fair deal.i don't think its shady at all. but you can have your opinion.
Doesn't mean that customer unfriendly terms shouldn't be discussed.
I've thrown in the towel with him. You either agree with him on his point or you let him get the last word in. I chose the latter. He's been beating the same drum for pages and pages.This is not really customer unfriendly. The carrier almost always gets less for the trade, if they get anything at all, than the customer gets for trading in. In this case there is no way AT&T got $650 for that phone. They hope to make it up by having you as a customer for a period of time.
In fact you can--and should--look at the trade-in more like a coupon. No value once it leaves your hands. It entitles you to x number of dollars in credits, which you obviously only receive if you are a customer.
Mike
In the end you as a customer end up without a device that you had with nothing at all to show for it. Certainly doesn't really seem friendly to you as a customer to lose something for nothing. A coupon has no value on its own and isn't something you own really, compared to a device that you used and can use and do something with (like sell, give to someone, etc.).This is not really customer unfriendly. The carrier almost always gets less for the trade, if they get anything at all, than the customer gets for trading in. In this case there is no way AT&T got $650 for that phone. They hope to make it up by having you as a customer for a period of time.
In fact you can--and should--look at the trade-in more like a coupon. No value once it leaves your hands. It entitles you to x number of dollars in credits, which you obviously only receive if you are a customer.
Mike
He did do something shady. He traded in a phone that should have been paid off beforehand. In my opinion he is the guilty party here.I finally found out what happened. He went to the AT&T store on friday. As we all assumed they told him his phone was already sent out and that there was nothing he could do about getting it back or getting a credit. Gave them back his Galaxy Edge and his sons 6S Plus. Called Verizon on saturday and was able to get his number ported back. For his son he bought a 64GB unlocked 6S plus from Best Buy for $550.00. They told him that if he wanted to get his son's number ported he had to have a phone to replace the one he traded in to AT&T. This was the phone he was buying at Best Buy. Went to the Verizon store on saturday to straighten everything out. The store manager would not help and seemed to think my friend was doing something shady. Went to a different Verizon store on sunday. Was able to get everything squared away. In the end he still owes Verizon $850.00 in contract obligations for the phone he traded in plus spent another $550.00 for his son's phone from Best Buy. A very expensive lesson learned. Fine print or not I don't see how you can tout a no harm and no foul return policy while failing to clearly disclose that you would still keep someones trade in. I realize a bunch of pontificators will soon lecture about freedom of choice and due diligence regarding the thorough reading of all contracts, This however does not disguise a pretty shady business practice.
James
People post something about what they think and I respond with what I think. Seems fairly typical for how a discussion would go. It offends on essentially agreeing to disagree, but that's not really anything new or strange when it comes to discussions.I've thrown in the towel with him. You either agree with him on his point or you let him get the last word in. I chose the latter. He's been beating the same drum for pages and pages.
Basically you'd have to sign away your right or something else protected by law.I see what you are saying. I am asking for your source on this.
If a signed contract is not enforceable then what is the point?
I knew I could count on you to chime inPeople post something about what they think and I respond with what I think. Seems fairly typical for how a discussion would go. It offends on essentially agreeing to disagree, but that's not really anything new or strange when it comes to discussions.
Well, seems like you posted something that would warrant a response, so certainly not surprising that there would be one.Basically you'd have to sign away your right or something else protected by law.
Extreme example: I sign myself into slavery. Whether I agreed to this or not it isn't enforceable by law.
I'm not well studied in law but I don't see how anything discussed here isn't enforceable. You trade in a piece of hardware with the agreement you will see the dollar value agreed upon by both parties credited to your bill over the next 24 months. There is absolutely nothing vague about this or is it infringing on either party's rights.
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I knew I could count on you to chime in![]()
He is still on the hook to pay off the phone that was trade-in, it's not like he is getting out of that, in which case that part would be shady. None of that really applies to or changes the part of the carrier getting a device for nothing and the customer losing it in return for nothing though.He did do something shady. He traded in a phone that should have been paid off beforehand. In my opinion he is the guilty party here.
Nothing shady on AT&T's part.
Mike
No. in fact that's exactly what you do when you have the carrier "pay off your contract". You hand them a phone still under contract at the time. They then agree to pay it off. Usually this is partial bill credit and then (many) months later a prepaid Visa card for the remainder.Isn't there rules against trading in a phone still under contract ?
The contract is basically for the term you are staying at or some amount of money in exchange for it, so as long as you fulfill that then you are still fulfilling the contract.Isn't there rules against trading in a phone still under contract ?
Then it is fair to assume if the carrier doesn't get the amount of money they offered in incentives for the trade if/when selling it that they can bill you for the difference? I suspect you wouldn't like that. The fact is this guy physically and legally turned over his phone for a deal that he later decided to cancel. That was his mistake. AT&T isn't even going to get anything close to $650 for that phone, which is long gone anyway. There are plenty of instances of poor corporate responsibility. This is not one of them. This is about personal responsibilityIn the end you as a customer end up without a device that you had with nothing at all to show for it. Certainly doesn't really seem friendly to you as a customer to lose something for nothing. A coupon has no value on its own and isn't something you own really, compared to a device that you used and can use and do something with (like sell, give to someone, etc.).
None of that really applies to or changes the part of the carrier getting a device for nothing and the customer losing it in return for nothing though.
The carrier offers something to entice you to join them so that they can then sell their service to you and profit from that. They also provide a trial/return period as part of that. They aren't losing out on not making as much as they can from the trade-in and are gaining something from it (you using their service and paying for it), while you are losing out on a whole device if you don't end up going with them during the trial period (and you don't get anything for it).Then it is fair to assume if the carrier doesn't get the amount of money they offered in incentives for the trade if/when selling it that they can bill you for the difference? I suspect you wouldn't like that. The fact is this guy physically and legally turned over his phone for a deal that he later decided to cancel. That was his mistake. AT&T isn't even going to get anything close to $650 for that phone, which is long gone anyway. There are plenty of instances of poor corporate responsibility. This is not one of them. This is about personal responsibility
It seems that some people think every potential customer is entitled to a free locker in the back room dedicated to storing their trade-in, should they cancel. But that is not the real world. In my world I know what the terms are before agreeing to a deal, especially if handing over a virtually new $850 device.
Mike
Does that mean we just agree with it all as it is and not even bring it up? One thing doesn't really have much to do with the other.And whoever said that life is fair???
Cry me a river. (Incidentally, a great song by Miss London.)
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So I went ahead and looked at the AT&T Trade In Program language on their website. It definitely says you won't be getting your phone back. It also has this –
TO THE EXTENT PERMITTED BY APPLICABLE LAW, AT&T, ITS VENDORS, AND SUPPLIERS WILL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR MORE THAN THE TRADE-IN VALUE OF THE DEVICE.
I think he needs to find out exactly what this means. Does he get the value they quoted on the trade-in with a contract or the trade-in value without a contract? I will call him tomorrow with this info.
Most of you have made some insightful comments and for that I thank you. I started this thread as a legitimate request for opinions/advice on what my friend could do with his situation. I have used the forums in the past for advice. Unfortunately a few of you have used the thread to further your beliefs about personal responsibility and start pissing matches with others. This was not requested and surely not needed. I'm sure you have read every inch of every software update user agreement – sarcasm intended. I'm sorry that some of us are not as diligent as you and sometimes make mistakes. It's always nice to be reminded of one's failing by some anonymous perfect person. The guy with the Patriot's logo keeps putting "friend" in quotes within his responses as if to imply that I, rather than my friend has made the mistake. Trust me, I have done plenty of stupid things in my life as I'm sure we all have. I would not come on here and pretend that some imaginary friend had the problem. I am fairly active on a five other message boards that are not related to computers or other electronic devices. All of them generally have much more civil discussions than this one. Pretty much every thread looking for an opinion or registering a complaint has a few people pontificating about how right they are and how wrong everyone else is. This is one reason I am not too active on this site.
James
So I went ahead and looked at the AT&T Trade In Program language on their website. It definitely says you won't be getting your phone back. It also has this –
TO THE EXTENT PERMITTED BY APPLICABLE LAW, AT&T, ITS VENDORS, AND SUPPLIERS WILL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR MORE THAN THE TRADE-IN VALUE OF THE DEVICE.
I think he needs to find out exactly what this means. Does he get the value they quoted on the trade-in with a contract or the trade-in value without a contract? I will call him tomorrow with this info.
Most of you have made some insightful comments and for that I thank you. I started this thread as a legitimate request for opinions/advice on what my friend could do with his situation. I have used the forums in the past for advice. Unfortunately a few of you have used the thread to further your beliefs about personal responsibility and start pissing matches with others. This was not requested and surely not needed. I'm sure you have read every inch of every software update user agreement – sarcasm intended. I'm sorry that some of us are not as diligent as you and sometimes make mistakes. It's always nice to be reminded of one's failing by some anonymous perfect person. The guy with the Patriot's logo keeps putting "friend" in quotes within his responses as if to imply that I, rather than my friend has made the mistake. Trust me, I have done plenty of stupid things in my life as I'm sure we all have. I would not come on here and pretend that some imaginary friend had the problem. I am fairly active on a five other message boards that are not related to computers or other electronic devices. All of them generally have much more civil discussions than this one. Pretty much every thread looking for an opinion or registering a complaint has a few people pontificating about how right they are and how wrong everyone else is. This is one reason I am not too active on this site.
James
James we all done many stupid things in our lives.
This is nothing and no big deal to admit if it is you. I wish my biggest mistake was to lose the value of a traded in cellphone.That would be great but I made many bigger and costlier mistakes and it doesn't bother me admitting my own faults.
I just never saw someone put so much time, effort, info and post details on a website over multiple days and posts about a so called friends situation and along with your responses it makes me think that its not just a random coworkers cellphone mishap.
Most people in real life would be like sorry for you man. That sucks and it would end there without much mentioning further.
Just common sense of my view that's all.
Either way if you feel you can chase it further try speaking to customer service or file a BBB complain. I think a big company such as AT&T could figure something out for you without having to go further and your local attorney general could assist you further. Not sure if litigation could be something you'd be inclined to but its an option if you choose to go for it.
Either way, best of luck with whatever happens.
I just never saw someone put so much time, effort, info and post details on a website over multiple days and posts about a so called friends situation and along with your responses it makes me think that its not just a random coworkers cellphone mishap.
Most people in real life would be like sorry for you man. That sucks and it would end there without much mentioning further.
My friends an I would dedicate even MORE time for each other. There is nothing true about "it would end there."
My friends an I would dedicate even MORE time for each other. There is nothing true about "it would end there."
It's called a contract. Each party is required to oxide by what they signed up to. Now if the friend feels wronged he is free to take AT&T to court and have a judge review said contract. Don't see he has much of a case, but hey, courts and law can be strange at times.Are you saying that anyone can put anything in fine print and just because people sign things that makes them right or even enforceable/legal in some cases?
It definitely falls into shading practices. Problems is litigation is only solution. That would cost far more $. Perhaps a class action suit. But am wondering how many others have these particular circumstances.I finally found out what happened. He went to the AT&T store on friday. As we all assumed they told him his phone was already sent out and that there was nothing he could do about getting it back or getting a credit. Gave them back his Galaxy Edge and his sons 6S Plus. Called Verizon on saturday and was able to get his number ported back. For his son he bought a 64GB unlocked 6S plus from Best Buy for $550.00. They told him that if he wanted to get his son's number ported he had to have a phone to replace the one he traded in to AT&T. This was the phone he was buying at Best Buy. Went to the Verizon store on saturday to straighten everything out. The store manager would not help and seemed to think my friend was doing something shady. Went to a different Verizon store on sunday. Was able to get everything squared away. In the end he still owes Verizon $850.00 in contract obligations for the phone he traded in plus spent another $550.00 for his son's phone from Best Buy. A very expensive lesson learned. Fine print or not I don't see how you can tout a no harm and no foul return policy while failing to clearly disclose that you would still keep someones trade in. I realize a bunch of pontificators will soon lecture about freedom of choice and due diligence regarding the thorough reading of all contracts, This however does not disguise a pretty shady business practice.
James
The carrier offers something to entice you to join them so that they can then sell their service to you and profit from that. They also provide a trial/return period as part of that. They aren't losing out on not making as much as they can from the trade-in, while you are losing out on a whole device if you don't end up going with them during the trial period.Then it is fair to assume if the carrier doesn't get the amount of money they offered in incentives for the trade if/when selling it that they can bill you for the difference? I suspect you wouldn't like that. The fact is this guy physically and legally turned over his phone for a deal that he later decided to cancel. That was his mistake. AT&T isn't even going to get anything close to $650 for that phone, which is long gone anyway. There are plenty of instances of poor corporate responsibility. This is not one of them. This is about personal responsibility
It seems that some people think every potential customer is entitled to a free locker in the back room dedicated to storing their trade-in, should they cancel. But that is not the real world. In my world I know what the terms are before agreeing to a deal, especially if handing over a virtually new $850 device.
Mike
Well, the "it's a contract" part has been addressed a few times in this thread, along with the other part about it all.It's called a contract. Each party is required to oxide by what they signed up to. Now if the friend feels wronged he is free to take AT&T to court and have a judge review said contract. Don't see he has much of a case, but hey, courts and law can be strange at times.
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It definitely falls into shading practices. Problems is litigation is only solution. That would cost far more $. Perhaps a class action suit. But am wondering how many others have these particular circumstances.
Consider, is it fair or shady that 13 million people lost their homes, the banks reposed them and got paid taxpayer tarp bailout money to cover their losses. With no bank officials going to jail. Socialism for the banks, not for the people.