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Shirasaki

macrumors P6
May 16, 2015
15,806
11,165
I’m surprised Intel mac support “copy object” feature, given that’s prolly the one that really can get some help from neural engine.
 

blackfeather

macrumors newbie
Jul 26, 2021
1
0
Nothing here that would compel me to upgrade but my 2012 mini is stuck on Catalina and support for that ends this fall when Ventura is released. So the time is coming for me to upgrade even though the 2012 mini still runs perfectly fine for my uses although I would like to get touch ID on my desktop as well as USB C.
Luck you ... my 2012 mini had a dying hard drive (SMART status was 'failing' IIRC) in 2020, so I bought one of the last Intel Minis. It's pretty much the same as the 2018s except it has double the disk space. It's the one that produces the most BTUs of all Minis as well, it turns out. Not great in the sweltering summer heat. Since user memory was upgradable then (in reality, Apple claims otherwise) at least I got a much cheaper upgrade from 8 => 64 GB by hundreds of dollars. At least I'm now getting used to Monterey.
 

redheeler

macrumors G3
Oct 17, 2014
8,465
8,923
Colorado, USA
Thanks for the unsolicited recommendation, without taking even a second to find out anything about my use case, and just assuming I'm speaking entirely out of ignorance.

Our macs are kept on an offline intranet. They run machines that cost as much as a nice house. They also run 32bit engineering and machining applications that cost about as much. They run windows, they run Linux, they run the last possible OS that Apple made that can do it all, which is Mojave, on the last possible hardware Apple made that can do it all, which was in 2019. Support? Like what, have a genius bar kid come out to the lab? lol
“This i9” made it seem like you were posting from the Mac in question. But if not then fair enough.

Also if you have a niche use case, you might want to indicate that in your comment otherwise open for interpretation as encouraging continued use of an insecure and unsupported MacOS on daily use hardware. You and I aren’t the only ones browsing MacRumors, and I’ve seen users here who will see a comment like yours as an excuse never to update on hardware that doesn’t have the luxury of being on an isolated network.
 
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theorist9

macrumors 68040
May 28, 2015
3,739
2,870
Thanks for the unsolicited recommendation, without taking even a second to find out anything about my use case, and just assuming I'm speaking entirely out of ignorance.

Our macs are kept on an offline intranet. They run machines that cost as much as a nice house. They also run 32bit engineering and machining applications that cost about as much. They run windows, they run Linux, they run the last possible OS that Apple made that can do it all, which is Mojave, on the last possible hardware Apple made that can do it all, which was in 2019. Support? Like what, have a genius bar kid come out to the lab? lol
As you know, I wasn't the one that made the recommendation. And I certainly understand that there are good reasons to stay with older, unsupported OS's. I myself stayed with High Sierra long after its EOL because it's the last OS with native subpixel text rendering, and I'm very sensitive to text sharpness. [Without subpixel rendering, I need my main monitor (for me, a 27") to be a Retina (~220 ppi) for text to look sharp enough not to give me a headache, and I didn't have an 5k 27" until recently.]

Having said that, when you wrote you were keeping "this i9" on Mojave, you weren't referring to a computer on an offline intranet since, logically, if it was on an offline intranet, you wouldn't have been able to post to MR from it. So something is not adding up here.
 

mielie

macrumors regular
Aug 19, 2020
146
267
Well, the big one is Parallels w/ Windows 10. Occasionally, I need to jump into Windows for some Excel add-ons, etc.
Proper Windows 10 and not the ARM version (that technically isn't authorized to run on Macs anyways). The hope is that eventually the ARM version will become more mainstream/widely compatible, not to mention authorized for Mac use.
Windows on ARM with parallel‘s works really well for me, and I’m running Windows 11 on my M1 faster than I am able to run Windows 10 on my i7 Mini in VMWare Fusion. And there is nothing in the EULA that prevents you running Windows ARM in a VM, it’s just not officially supported.
 

Haiku_Oezu

macrumors 6502a
Oct 31, 2016
536
704
The emoji thing feels totally arbitrary and capricious, I can’t imagine why that would need a better CPU or ML

Maybe there’s a legit reason, I know nothing about ML
 

Bazza1

macrumors 6502a
May 16, 2017
711
536
Toronto, Canada
Increase the cost of what was your least expensive MacBook, and then shorten the life expectancy of OS updates. Nice. Kinda makes you want to rethink the whole cost-effectiveness of the whole purchase.
Now granted, I expected my 2017 Air to hit the wall in the next year or so (even though they continued to sell it a couple of years after, because of the ports), but one has to wonder which features of Ventura really require M1 or M2 over Intel, and how much of that is simply the push to get users to fork out for a new Mac.
 
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sdfox7

Contributor
Jan 30, 2022
263
158
USA
Increase the cost of what was your least expensive MacBook, and then shorten the life expectancy of OS updates. Nice. Kinda makes you want to rethink the whole cost-effectiveness of the whole purchase.
Now granted, I expected my 2017 Air to hit the wall in the next year or so (even though they continued to sell it a couple of years after, because of the ports), but one has to wonder which features of Ventura really require M1 or M2 over Intel, and how much of that is simply the push to get users to fork out for a new Mac.
As I mentioned earlier in a previous post, it’s absolutely ridiculous that a 5 year old MBA cannot run the latest operating system. Apple’s whole “environmentalism” posture goes right out the window.
 

pterrell

macrumors newbie
Mar 31, 2022
3
2
I’ve been using Apple products faithfully since 1978….it goes with the territory. Not in a big rush to move on from my 2018 MacBook Pro as I know how long it takes for 3rd party developers to make their hardware/software compatible. My MBP still runs circles around any PC I have ever owned and the longevity of Apple products means I have a few more years to decide…..I have never had a pc last more than 2 years with the exception of a couple of Toshiba Satellites I have had (now I just have a Surface Pro to tackle non-Mac tasks).
 

subroutines

macrumors member
Sep 30, 2009
67
26
After seeing the prices and spec for the M2 and how Intel have stepped their game, I really cant see myself staying with a mac.

Once upon a time german cars (Apple) used to be good and American cars (windows) poor and now Apple have gotten worse, while Microsoft have gotten better! It's nuts.

Honestly, I have noticed the same thing. I recently got a Windows Laptop (HP Spectre) and I am somewhat pleased how improved the Windows experience is compared to what it was in 2012. Oh and two years ago, I got an American car and pleasantly surprised how great the vehicle is.
 
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oeagleo

macrumors 6502a
Feb 5, 2016
712
417
West Jordan, Utah
I still use both, a 2019 (or so) Windows 11 machine, 8th gen i7, 16GB ram, ssd drive, Nvidea Gforce 1010 Graphics Chip; and a 2018 Macbook Pro, with the 8 core i7, 16GB ram, also SSD drive with the upgraded graphics chip. I was poking around using an app named Affinity, and decided to compare the two laptops on a 5 photo, Exposure array. Same array of photos, on each machine. I tried to time my click on the "apply" key as close as I could, and it was pretty close. The results kind of took me back. See attached.
 
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d4cloo

macrumors regular
Aug 28, 2016
115
236
Los Angeles
Sweet. Now depending on how game is programmed, it would mean able to run under Metal 3 or not. Unless Apple stops changing their Metal every year breaking old stuff in the progress I don’t see AAA title flooding mac market. Metal API is not fully working on Windows just yet.

This is not true. Metal 1 and 2 games will still run fine - nothing ‘breaks’. Only if you as a developer want to leverage Version 3 features, you need to recompile with the new Metal targeted, and sometimes make code changes as well depending on the changes.
Not different from going from directX versions to Y.
When your game still ‘talks’ to Metal 1, no problem. Unless old versions get deprecated and then unsupported, but that’s not going to happen so fast. Only WebGL to Metal was an extreme, clean break.

Apple’s problem with gaming is a combination of different technological foundations that deviate from the dominant Windows platform, which makes it a costly endeavor for a developer to support an additional, very small user-base.
- CUDA/Nvidia isn’t supported by Apple
- App Store / Notarization can be a pain
- ARM versus Intel
- Metal versus DirectX
- Probably more…

In order for Apple to fix this, they need to start investing in acquiring AAA gaming companies, attract institutional knowledge, offer unique content, and grow a gaming culture outside their ****** Arcade mobile port subscription.
 

InuNacho

macrumors 68000
Apr 24, 2008
1,998
1,249
In that one place
As I mentioned earlier in a previous post, it’s absolutely ridiculous that a 5 year old MBA cannot run the latest operating system. Apple’s whole “environmentalism” posture goes right out the window.
Funny how in terms of the average home user getting OS and security updates, Microsoft is now king. That same Macbook Air will get security updates directly and officially from Microsoft on Windows 10 until October 2025.
Guess Microsoft cares more about the environment than Apple.
 

tothemoonsands

macrumors 6502a
Jun 14, 2018
539
1,190

sdfox7

Contributor
Jan 30, 2022
263
158
USA
In the US, inflation and gas prices are at record highs, and the economy is headed into the toilet.

I’m curious how many people will dump their old Mac and buy a new one just to get the new features from Ventura. The music won’t go on forever, just like 2008, and I would guess a majority of people buy these machines with debt and credit cards (yes Apple Card I’m looking at you). Once the economy goes south I’m not so sure this will remain the case.

I think that between a souring economy and a supply chain crisis, Apple is playing with fire by locking out relatively new machines from the upgrade. A 2016 MacBook Pro and a 2017 MacBook Air cannot run Ventura…are you kidding?! This will increase the OS fragmentation that already exists on iOS and MacOS. They are attempting to coerce people into new hardware, and I think it can backfire.

My mid-2012 MacBook Pro MD101 (last model with DVD drive and upgradable RAM and SSD) shipped with Lion 10.7, and Catalina 10.15 was the last new version supported. Count ‘em…that‘s 9 OS versions! The new support cycles are greedy, ridiculous and not environmentally friendly by any means.

Apple would be wise not to bite the hand that feeds it…not all of its customers are rich and willing to constantly upgrade. I make a good living, but I don’t have unlimited resources.
 
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Shirasaki

macrumors P6
May 16, 2015
15,806
11,165
In the US, inflation and gas prices are at record highs, and the economy is headed into the toilet.

I’m curious how many people will dump their old Mac and buy a new one just to get the new features from Ventura. The music won’t go on forever, just like 2008, and I would guess a majority of people buy these machines with debt and credit cards (yes Apple Card I’m looking at you). Once the economy goes south I’m not so sure this will remain the case.

I think that between a souring economy and a supply chain crisis, Apple is playing with fire by locking out relatively new machines from the upgrade. A 2016 MacBook Pro and a 2017 MacBook Air cannot run Ventura…are you kidding?! This will increase the OS fragmentation that already exists on iOS and MacOS. They are attempting to coerce people into new hardware, and I think it can backfire.

My mid-2012 MacBook Pro MD101 (last model with DVD drive and upgradable RAM and SSD) shipped with Lion 10.7, and Catalina 10.15 was the last new version supported. Count ‘em…that‘s 9 OS versions! The new support cycles are greedy, ridiculous and not environmentally friendly by any means.

Apple would be wise not to bite the hand that feeds it…not all of its customers are rich and willing to constantly upgrade. I make a good living, but I don’t have unlimited resources.
I always go with this: let them rot. They aint Listen warnings and can only see the money. A great manager will have the ability to see through money and beyond. Tim cook is not that guy.

There is no need to warn a company that is still peaking its value. Once the inevitable crash happens, they will enjoy their share of downturn just like everyone else, harder. I can’t wait to see that happening.
 

Victor Mortimer

macrumors 6502a
Apr 17, 2016
861
1,500
Luck you ... my 2012 mini had a dying hard drive (SMART status was 'failing' IIRC) in 2020, so I bought one of the last Intel Minis. It's pretty much the same as the 2018s except it has double the disk space. It's the one that produces the most BTUs of all Minis as well, it turns out. Not great in the sweltering summer heat. Since user memory was upgradable then (in reality, Apple claims otherwise) at least I got a much cheaper upgrade from 8 => 64 GB by hundreds of dollars. At least I'm now getting used to Monterey.
Why not just change the hard drive out for a SSD? It's a simple replacement on the 2012 mini, and you could still run Mojave.

(I'm on my 4th or 5th drive on this 2012 MBP, and while 10.14 sucks compared to 10.6, it's far better than 12.)
 
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