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If you want a sub to match, I highly suggest looking at: http://www.guitarcenter.com/JBL-LSR-4312SP-Subwoofer-103851978-i1174235.gc

Then again, the lowest and Genelec subwoofer is only about $200 more, and if you went with Genelec's in the first place, you may as well get the Genelec subwoofer.

The JBL subwoofer does produce very impressive bass, especially for the money.


Peace

Thanks for the advice. Your right, for $200 more, might as well go with the Genelec sub to match. I prefer the monitor sound rather than the sound of a speaker that gives the audio another characteristic, hence why I bought the Genelecs in the first place. The 1030s are great, but they don't get too loud without losing the bass, but they are sufficient for most applications. My other real only complaint is that like other have noticed, is that the highs are too present, and cause ear fatigue. A am about to try some Celestion SL600s that I borrowed from a friend once I buy some tubes for my newly acquired power amp.
 
Ha. "Idiotic Bose hate" indeed. Why, because it is true? A bad hifi company isn't worthy of "hate." Put it this way--if you played someone a Bose system vs. something that cost half of what the Bose system cost, everyone would prefer the non-Bose system. How can I be so sure? Because I've done it. I've never seen or heard of Bose being sold by demonstration against other gear. Brilliant marketers, but from a pure musical standpoint it is quite possibly the worst equipment that's widely available.

The fact that much of the Bose thrashing is idiotic is what's true. Many of the Bose products are overpriced by about 30-40%, but they're far, far from being the worst sounding speaker, which is an utterly ludicrous statement.



Kindly reconcile those two statements? I'll wait. . . Right, you can't--they are contradictory. If you produce a frequency response graph taken in a controlled environment, I'll be delighted to look at it. But although the module may be vibrating and making noise at a claimed 35 Hz does not mean it's playing music. Try running a 35 Hz test tone through an acoustimass module in a room without any other speakers, and listen to what happens....you'll melt the drivers.


You need to pay more attention. First of all, you suggested the physical enclosure itself was resonating, producing the note. The newest/latest series Lifestyle Acoustimass enclosures are surprisingly quite solid and anti-resonant. Any bass note that was being produced was air being moved by the two 5.25" woofers themselves.


You've got me interested about truly testing whether or not Bose's home-theater systems can surpass many of the extremely biased statements on the "intellectual.net Bose site" that comes up in more than a couple times in any Bose related topic on audiophile forums.


A great experience I had with Bose was going into the store, bass heavy music CDs in hand (any of you familiar with the artist B.T, more specifically the song "The HipHop Phenomenon"?) and the sale reps encouraged me to play it on their Acoustimass system (same woofers used in the Lifestyle modules). The store manager eventually came out, having me think he wants it turned down. Instead, he has me crank it to about 90dB, or more, and the bass - though a bit boomy- was able to keep up with the crystal clear highs. My ears were ringing for a couple hours after that enjoyable episode at the Bose store.

The woofer itself was easily dipping into the 40's or 30's, and there was no sign of any change of state.


This was of an older version of the Acoustimass Module: http://www.cnet.com.au/hometheatre/homecinemakits/0,239028683,240003702,00.htm

It is said they tested it in a controlled environment, with the module reaching down to a solid 35Hz. Also, be sure to read the (or at least one of them) by "berns" - simply do a Command+F. He has some sense and good logic regarding the ludicrous Bose hate.

Read the big comment added by the user "tonson", too.


This is an interesting page visually showing the innovation and quality design that went into the latest Lifestyle Acoustimass module: http://www.bose.co.jp/jp_jp?url=/consumer_audio/consumer_audio_news/new_products/20070927_03.jsp

Here's another page of the inside of the same module: http://www.avguide.ch/index.cfm/show/page.view/uuid/B6D51330-BCD5-01D4-2A059830DE62096A

That's definite result from quality research and development, which the Bose corporation actually dumps a lot of their money into. Not only audio, but automotive and now some medical research as well (medical, from what I've heard).


Ah. Well, there we have it. From what speakers, and in what environments? Forgive me, but I'll take the measurements I've seen, and my and others', personal auditioning over what you did.


Speakers such as: Klipsch, Acoustic Research (their real stuff, before they became crap), four ten-inch subwoofers in sealed two sealed enclosures driven by an external amplifier known as the "Kenergetics" (amazingly musical bass, some of the best I've heard), Infinity PS-10, and a JL Audio car subwoofer, though I realize a subwoofer in the trunk is a much different environment.

It's perfectly OK to have an opinion that differs from someone else. But ad hominem attacks (aside from violating the Forum rules) detract from everything you say. You might, rather, go and listen to some speakers that can produce a real 35 Hz tone..... While I suspect KillyP and I have rather different preferences, I'd certainly agree that the B&W 800 and 801s would be a fine place to start....


I've listened to plenty of speakers that can produce a genuine thirty-five hertz tone, and will be soon obtaining a studio subwoofer than will be able to do so with aplomb. KillyP and I have been talking about audio and the like as well, and have more than a couple views in common. What would be your different preference(s)?

Do you think Bowers & Wilkins are overpriced?

Bottom line is Bose isn't nearly as terrible as they're made out to be, "or far worse". They do lack quite a bit of mid-range, but the highs and lows are better than average. Given the price, as I've aforementioned, you can definitely get better sound quality for the money. Bose products are far from being worth what they cost in terms of sound performance, but overall (excluding Acoustimass systems. The way I see it, if you're going to buy a component system, you can do much better for the money) given what many of their products offer, especially the Lifestyle series; simplicity, reliability, up to nine rooms (around there) of different audio tracks playing at once, everything being controlled from the main Bose unit and a single remote that allows you to visually see the track playing, as well as constant updates and personal letters from they're exceedingly quality customer service and support - makes it all worth it for the customer looking for solid sound (not the best), and convenience in a single package. They're starting to make better and better products, though. Take a look at their MusicMonitors, albeit overpriced as usual, they're very well built and produce excellent sound.

I also believe a lot of my backup and views regarding Bose are from my personal experiences with Bose, which have been greatly enjoyable. Their Companion 3 (which are of high quality, simply look at the reviews) are what really got me into audio, as well as going into their stores and have people who are interested (many who have heard and own) the CDs I bring in be more than happy to go out of their way to allow me to play my music I brought in to see how their systems performed.


Peace
 
Most of the online "Bose-hating" is due to their current mainstream-marketing approach to sales, combined with a bit of snobbery on the part of the haters.
However, some of it is due to genuinely poor speaker design philosophies and priorities.
It's not that Bose (AcoustiMass) speakers sound "bad"; they actually sound very good. But they are definitely NOT high-performance speakers on an absolute scale, and are certainly not on the must-hear list for audiophile reviewers like Stereophile and TAS.

Modern Bose speakers (AcoustiMass) are designed to bring "wide-range" sound reproduction (rich bass and bright treble) in a small package at a reasonable price to mainstream consumers.
Bose is achieving their design goals.
It is not really fair to compare Bose to B&W; the two companies have very different markets and design goals.
 
Most of the online "Bose-hating" is due to their current mainstream-marketing approach to sales, combined with a bit of snobbery on the part of the haters.
However, some of it is due to genuinely poor speaker design philosophies and priorities.
It's not that Bose (AcoustiMass) speakers sound "bad"; they actually sound very good. But they are definitely NOT high-performance speakers on an absolute scale, and are certainly not on the must-hear list for audiophile reviewers like Stereophile and TAS.

Modern Bose speakers (AcoustiMass) are designed to bring "wide-range" sound reproduction (rich bass and bright treble) in a small package at a reasonable price to mainstream consumers.
Bose is achieving their design goals.
It is not really fair to compare Bose to B&W; the two companies have very different markets and design goals.

Very well said. They do not produce Hi-Fi sound, but instead a unique sound that has powerful bass and quality highs. They wrap this up in a stylish quality package and sell it at a premium price, though if you account all the features and support from an exceedingly quality customer service, the price is more justifiable.


Here's a a good thread on one of their later Lifestyle systems: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=921202


Peace
 
Most of the online "Bose-hating" is due to their current mainstream-marketing approach to sales, combined with a bit of snobbery on the part of the haters.

Just curious--who are you to say where "Most of the online Bose-hating" comes from?

However, some of it is due to genuinely poor speaker design philosophies and priorities.

Right. They can make noise, and make it loud, but it is not a serious high fidelity product.

It's not that Bose (AcoustiMass) speakers sound "bad"; they actually sound very good.

Surely you're joking? No? Wow. Bose acoustimass speakers sound dreadful. They have a piercing low treble range, no upper treble, a grossly recessed and honky midrange, and their bass is simply atrocious--it is impossible to identify notes it is trying to play and simply sounds like a dull roar. If you like that, fine. But don't say it bears any resemblance to a true high-fidelity speaker. Try playing a piano recording through them; it will sound almost unrecognizable.

It is not really fair to compare Bose to B&W; the two companies have very different markets and design goals.

Not fair? Why not? Because Bose will always lose? Bose is the entity claiming their speakers can be compared to systems costing 5 times as much. So that's an absurd statement--the company itself invites comparisons.

This was of an older version of the Acoustimass Module: http://www.cnet.com.au/hometheatre/homecinemakits/0,239028683,240003702,00.htm

It is said they tested it in a controlled environment, with the module reaching down to a solid 35Hz.

The measurements are where? "It is said" doesn't cut it. And you did note the "specification" tab? Right--it had measurements all right--of the box size and weight, and how many of what was in the shipping box.

Rather than going through your post, all I will say is that Bose offers awful music reproduction capability for an exorbitant price that can easily be bettered for dramatically less money. If someone likes that, fine. They deserve everything they get. But don't try to claim something extends to 35 Hz absent a credible measurement, which the company refuses to provide, especially when other credible measurements exist. And as I have said, a speaker company isn't worthy of hate. Frankly, I marvel at Bose's ability to pull the wool over so many peoples' eyes.

Finally, it sounds like you're on their payroll. Are you?
 
Just curious--who are you to say where "Most of the online Bose-hating" comes from?

I stand corrected; I am not actually qualified to make such a statement.

BTW,
Piercing low treble?
Honky midrange?
Atrocious bass?
There's a Bose store a few doors down from the Apple Store here.
I'm going to sit down and seriously audition this system the next time I'm in the area
to see if I can hear some the qualities you're talking about.
I am qualified to do this because I am Snickelfritz.:p
 
So funny, everyone here is tossing around all these high end names, yet quite possibly one of the best sounding complete systems I have ever heard was from a little company called Triad.

Completely changed my mind about sealed vs. ported subs. After hearing four of their silver series subs in full song, I just about crapped myself.

The bass wasn't all mushy and misaligned, it was snappy, responsive, clear and concise, not the mud you get from nearly every other sub I have heard.
 
Rather than going through your post, all I will say is that Bose offers awful music reproduction capability for an exorbitant price that can easily be bettered for dramatically less money. If someone likes that, fine. They deserve everything they get. But don't try to claim something extends to 35 Hz absent a credible measurement, which the company refuses to provide, especially when other credible measurements exist. And as I have said, a speaker company isn't worthy of hate. Frankly, I marvel at Bose's ability to pull the wool over so many peoples' eyes.

Finally, it sounds like you're on their payroll. Are you?

Did you even bother to read the review? My guess is no, but I could be wrong. It is said they set up the Acoustimass module in a controlled environment and measure bass response right down to 35Hz. You don't always need to see a graph to understand this, as evidently you can understand english and read it, too.

I'm also starting to think you haven't heard one of their Lifestyle systems with the Jewel Cubes - I'm not too much a fan of their Acoustimass systems, and their Jewel Cubes do offer much clearer sound - in a relative environment. Their stores are frankly not the best place to demo a Bose system.

They produce a very different sound. While it's far from Hi-Fi, the treble is extremely clear and non-fatiguing, the bass is warm and smooth, and clear - when set up properly the bass (at least on their latest Lifestyle system) is quite controlled. Their a fun speaker to listen to, and for high fidelity stereo audio playback, I have my fine near-field KRK studio monitors to enjoy.


On their pay roll? Haha, not even close.

Peace
 
Great thread

Like I said, good speakers can carry you through the years vs anything else in your system.

Thanks
 
Bose is junk

Guys,

Can anyone tell me wich is the best brand on Audio? I own a set of Bose speakers and acoustimas... I remember another brand I saw in a post but forgot its name... "averion....?" dont know... any other that is not bang olufsen??

Thanks

Bose is junk. $10 speakers that sell for $100. Listen to speakers from any of the companies I have listed and you'll instantly hear the difference between Bose and a good speaker.

Band and Olufsen is quality, but your paying mostly for design(which is excellent). There is much better available for the price. And their speakers are weak relative to their components.

Getting to your question, there is no "best" brand.

There are literally dozens of quality speaker companies. Speakers are very individualistic and a matter of taste. You absolutely have to listen to them.

If your talking really high end, I would say Wilson Audio. But if your buying Bose, you won't be getting Wilsons, since they cost more than a car.

Some quality speaker brands (and I am definitely missing a lot):

B&W
KEF
Mirage
Monitor Audio
Paradigm
PSB
Dynaudio
Vienna Acoustics
Martin Logan
Wharfdale
Totem Acoustics
Vandersteen
Definitive Technology
M & K

Oh, and I wouldn't put companies like Boston Acoustics, Klipsch, Polk or JBL in the same category as those above. But they are worlds better than Bose.

As for components, there are so many. Some good companies:

Denon
Onkyo
Pioneer
Yamaha
Harmon Kardon

FYI, Sony, Panasonic, etc. is generally poor quality in audio.

Stepping up:

Rotel
NAD
Linn
Meridian
McIntosh
Krell
Adcom
Lexicon
Arcam
Parasound
Anthem

Some of these brands are very high end. However, many are quite reasonable. You can get into a nice HT system for less than 1500. Midrange would be about 3500. The high end... virtually unlimited.

In case your wondering, I have a Denon 3803 receiver, PS3, Directv DVR and an ancient Thorens turntable driving Monitor Audio Silvers, a Velodyne sub and a Pioneer 6010 plasma. And I'm planning on upgrading my receiver to either Rotel, NAD or a newer Denon. While I'd really like a pre-amp/amp, I can't really justify it right now.
 
Very well said. They do not produce Hi-Fi sound, but instead a unique sound that has powerful bass and quality highs. They wrap this up in a stylish quality package and sell it at a premium price, though if you account all the features and support from an exceedingly quality customer service, the price is more justifiable.


Here's a a good thread on one of their later Lifestyle systems: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=921202


Peace

Buy a compact sub-sat system from Mirage or Monitor. It will look better and blow the doors off any Bose system.

Bose is for people who:

a) Don't know anything about sound. And have never actually heard good sound.

b) Don't care.

Dunno about that. Most of the Bose stuff I've heard sound perfectly acceptable. They just work, their performance or build quality isn't that hot but the sort of people who buy them aren't going to care too much about that - and they're decor-friendly in an unobtrusive way, as well as usually pretty usable. They're to audio what Apples are to computers.

Except for the fact that Apple uses quality materials. Apple doesn't use the equivalent of $3 paper speakers connected with $.50 cabling.
 
Buy a compact sub-sat system from Mirage or Monitor. It will look better and blow the doors off any Bose system.

Bose is for people who:

a) Don't know anything about sound. And have never actually heard good sound.

b) Don't care.



Except for the fact that Apple uses quality materials. Apple doesn't use the equivalent of $3 paper speakers connected with $.50 cabling.


There are many reasons - each different - why people buy products. I know an exceeding amount about audio, have heard some amazing sound systems from the likes of B&W, Acoustic Research (before they became garbage), Spica, Klipsch (their RC reference grade floor standers with accompanying subwoofer), Def Tech, as well as some others.

With this experience, and high level of knowledge I have about audio, I still like Bose products. Not all of them granted, but they do have some commendable products.

For you to say they use three dollar speakers and fifty cent quality cabling adversely shows your ignorance of a company you love to hate on. There's plenty of Bose hate going around, and as strong as their marketing is, there's an equal amount of Bose trash being talked, that frankly much if it is exceedingly and dramatically over exaggerated.

Bose is indeed for an intended market that doesn't have the first priority of their sound system being Hi-Fi reproduction. That being said, there are people with much higher knowledge in audio who sees the quality in Bose products, and their company as a whole.


Peace
 
@Naimfan

I own a lifestyle 50 and to say it's bad, is ridiculous if not a little ignorant on your part. Over priced sure. But what product isn't?

Your claims about all the loss in all the different ranges are absurd. The main thing I listen to is classical music, and not a single instrument is lost in any recording.

My father was a piano maker at Steinway and when he first heard a piano concerto played on the Bose he could instantly tell it was being played on a Steinway piano because the highest notes on a Steinway piano produce a "woody" pitch that is unique to Steinway. My Dad couldn't believe the "trueness" of the sound reproduced.

My wife and I are both amateur musicians, by brother was a sound technician at Dallas Sound Lab, my best friend is a violin maker, and all of us tend to think that my stereo system is pretty nice sounding.

I'm just going to leave it at that, and that I'm pleased with my Bose stereo system.

You can argue about it all you want to, but it really seems to me like you've got some vendetta against Bose and given that you're a NAIM fan, I guess you will say anything to try to prove you've got the best setup out of anyone - which all audiophiles tend to do to some extent, but you're relentless.
 
Except for the fact that Apple uses quality materials. Apple doesn't use the equivalent of $3 paper speakers connected with $.50 cabling.
Have you ever taken a good long look at a MacBook? I've seen better construction in Dells that sell for half the price; I mean the edges on mine are rough & not even finished properly.
 
Have you ever taken a good long look at a MacBook? I've seen better construction in Dells that sell for half the price; I mean the edges on mine are rough & not even finished properly.

Well, to be honest, I rarely look at low end consumer Macs, other than professional curiosity, going back to Performa days.

There are many reasons - each different - why people buy products. I know an exceeding amount about audio, have heard some amazing sound systems from the likes of B&W, Acoustic Research (before they became garbage), Spica, Klipsch (their RC reference grade floor standers with accompanying subwoofer), Def Tech, as well as some others.

With this experience, and high level of knowledge I have about audio, I still like Bose products. Not all of them granted, but they do have some commendable products.

For you to say they use three dollar speakers and fifty cent quality cabling adversely shows your ignorance of a company you love to hate on. There's plenty of Bose hate going around, and as strong as their marketing is, there's an equal amount of Bose trash being talked, that frankly much if it is exceedingly and dramatically over exaggerated.

Bose is indeed for an intended market that doesn't have the first priority of their sound system being Hi-Fi reproduction. That being said, there are people with much higher knowledge in audio who sees the quality in Bose products, and their company as a whole.


Peace

I'm sorry but unless something has recently changed with Bose manufacturing and design, I'm pretty sure they use cheap paper cone midrange drivers with weak (small) magnets. No tweeters and no woofers.

And, unless I'm mistaken, they use really thin gauge speaker wire, the kind you find on boomboxes to connect their speakers.

Oh, and I didn't even mention the cheap plastic enclosures...

I'm not actually against Bose. I see them in the marketplace much like, say, a cheap Panasonic HTIB. What I do have an issue with is saying Bose in the same breath as high end or high quality.
 
Well, to be honest, I rarely look at low end consumer Macs, other than professional curiosity, going back to Performa days.
If you're in the market for a computer, £699 is hardly 'low end'. Spending that much on a computer, I expected far superior component & build quality.
 
Your claims about all the loss in all the different ranges are absurd. The main thing I listen to is classical music, and not a single instrument is lost in any recording.

What you all are missing is a bit of the science.....

There has been a lot of research over the years on just what parts of sound must be reproduced correctly so that the listener thinks he hears the music correctly. The "brute force" audiophile method is to build a system that actually has very accurate reproduction but that requires 1970's style huge stereo speakers with many very expensive drivers and a large amp. The mass market simply did not want 6 cubic foot speakers priced at $2,000 a pair. So, people started to think The first bit of research showed the people can not tell the location of low frequency sounds. So way not loose the bass drivers from the stereo pair and invent the sub-woofer? This was the first major use of what they call psycho-acoustics.

The MP3 audio format and other lossy compression tries to only throw away what we humans don't need to hear. Speaker makers like Bose do the same thing. Bose does a good job of this. The music sounds good and yes, even I can hear what kind of piano is playing to a gross level but the Bose system is FAR from acurate. It only reproduces what the human ear and brain needs to hear.

I still have my 70's vintage Infinity "quantum" speakers. These have nearly perfect flat response all the way down to 24Hz and they can reproduce sound all the way down to about 15Hz They are four feet tall and about 100 pounds each. I think the pair sold new for about $2k in 1975.
See more here
http://www.bobbyshred.com/infinity/Q2.html

When I compare these to a Bose system, the Bose is more "showy". It stands out. It sounds both brighter and seems to have more bass. But it is neither. Bose has simply left out the mid-range and exaggerated the low and high ends. It turns out people listen to the higher overtones to determine things like the location of sound or the type of material that breaks (wood or glass)

A good analogy is to look at those who recently fell into a pile of money like rock stars and professional athletes and compare them the people from families who have had money for over a century. The first group is flashy and shows off and maybe even sets the trend for pop culture but the other group you don't see. Same here. You simply do not hear my old speakers, you hear the sound they make but try as you might the speaks seem to make no sound of their own. Bose on the other hand -- you always know you are listening to Bose speakers.

That said, yes you can clearly hear everything in the Bose. I can tell if the mic was placed close or a couple feet back. Nothing I need to hear is missing.

The real test is with a vocal recording. Does it really sound like the person is there in the room? or does it sound like you are listening to a recording?
 
excellent feedback, I had taken the time to read the entire thread, it has been really useful.

I must admit that I thought BOSE was a top and high end sound system, with all what it has been said my scope has become wider and definately am considering buying other than BOSE.

I know there are plenty of high end products out there, truth is that if budget was not a limitation I would go with Mcintosh and ML speakers, fact is budget is not unlimited.

I have been checking APERION AUDIO for my speakers, how could I go wrong having a 30 days trial or full refund including shipment?
and OUTLAW for my processor 990 and amp 7075 (combo) tagged at U$999.

Has anyone had experience with any of this two brands?

Additionally, I see most people (or at least a lot) use Velodyne as ther subwoofer, would it be recommended mixing different speakers brands in the array?

thanks!
 
Funny thing about McIntosh equipment. I don't know what it is like now but...

Back in the 70s and 80s I was a huge McIntosh fan. I had a pretty high end setup (Amp, Preamp, Tuner, Equalizer, Speakers) & always considered it the best. Around 1985 I went to work for a Linn/NAIM retailer. I actually didn't care much about that part of the business. They also sold classical records and I worked as the buyer -- it's what I loved to do and I built up one of the finest selections of import Jazz in the area.

Anyway, the owner had me take home the $500 (at the time) NAIM NAIT, a 20 WPC integrated stereo amplifier. It had just a volume control and a input selector. Nothing else. I though he was joking, but I took it home and hooked it up. It blew the McIntosh away!!! It was like I had never listened to music before. All my recordings had a whole new life -- they just popped out of the vinyl all of a sudden. I was hearing things I never heard before. Amazing. Quite an eye-opening experience. The next day I put all the McIntosh gear for sale and used the proceeds to buy a NAIM system (NAC-32, HI-CAP, NAP-110).

Not everything is what everyone else tells you it is. Other people's opinions don't really help that much -- you just have to listen and decide for yourself.
 
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If you're in the market for a computer, £699 is hardly 'low end'. Spending that much on a computer, I expected far superior component & build quality.

lol, you must be young to think that is a lot. I don't think I've ever spent less than $2500 on a Mac, though I have been progressively spending less and getting more.
 
excellent feedback, I had taken the time to read the entire thread, it has been really useful.

I must admit that I thought BOSE was a top and high end sound system, with all what it has been said my scope has become wider and definately am considering buying other than BOSE.

I know there are plenty of high end products out there, truth is that if budget was not a limitation I would go with Mcintosh and ML speakers, fact is budget is not unlimited.

I have been checking APERION AUDIO for my speakers, how could I go wrong having a 30 days trial or full refund including shipment?
and OUTLAW for my processor 990 and amp 7075 (combo) tagged at U$999.

Has anyone had experience with any of this two brands?

Additionally, I see most people (or at least a lot) use Velodyne as ther subwoofer, would it be recommended mixing different speakers brands in the array?

thanks!

I don't have first hand knowledge of Aperion, but I do know that Outlaw is well respected and makes fine equipment especially for the price. Just make sure it has everything you need, especially regarding connections and processing. Much high end audio gear tends to lag with things like the latest connector support (like HDMI 1.3) or audio codec (Dolby TrueHD).

Regarding mixing and matching speakers, you pretty much want your mains and center to be matched, from the same company. That way the front soundstage is tonally balanced. It's also not a bad idea to match the surrounds, but less necessary. And generally you can go with a different brand of subwoofer. The caveat to that is that if you go with very small satellites for mains and center, you might want to get the matched subwoofer, as it will probably be designed as a system, to take up much of the mid and low range that the sats are missing.

As others have mentioned there are some very good sub companies. Velodyne, REL, PSB. From what I have heard, the general cutoff for high quality subs (with really solid, tight low bass) is $1000. Not to say you can't find a good sub for less, but if you spend $1000 and up, your getting into the good stuff. PSB, Energy, REL and Hsu make some nice subs under 1k. Remember, with subs, it's not booming low bass. What you are looking for is tight fast transient response.
 
Well, to be honest, I rarely look at low end consumer Macs, other than professional curiosity, going back to Performa days.



I'm sorry but unless something has recently changed with Bose manufacturing and design, I'm pretty sure they use cheap paper cone midrange drivers with weak (small) magnets. No tweeters and no woofers.

And, unless I'm mistaken, they use really thin gauge speaker wire, the kind you find on boomboxes to connect their speakers.

Oh, and I didn't even mention the cheap plastic enclosures...

I'm not actually against Bose. I see them in the marketplace much like, say, a cheap Panasonic HTIB. What I do have an issue with is saying Bose in the same breath as high end or high quality.


Bose actually uses a specific kind of paper and paper treatment in their drivers, treated (I've dismantled down to the driver, though this was one of the Jewel Cube configured enclosures) and it is a very stiff, quality paper.

The magnet is actually quite large. Larger than the height of the basket enclosing the voice-coil and spider and driver added up. The "cheap plastic" is actually of a definite higher grade than you would find on Panasonic HTiB systems, or the like.

The wire is actually a custom gauge wire that's thicker than sixteen gauge, but not quite fourteen gauge. The internal wire is either the same or thicker gauge, and the wires themselves are covered with a porous plastic/foam sleeve (the ones used in quality audio equipment containing air moving components in the same space as wire as to not cause any vibration and/or turbulence).


Bose products actually carry quite a bit of quality - overpriced- but great quality in the right places.



Peace
 
excellent feedback, I had taken the time to read the entire thread, it has been really useful.

I must admit that I thought BOSE was a top and high end sound system, with all what it has been said my scope has become wider and definately am considering buying other than BOSE.

I know there are plenty of high end products out there, truth is that if budget was not a limitation I would go with Mcintosh and ML speakers, fact is budget is not unlimited.

I have been checking APERION AUDIO for my speakers, how could I go wrong having a 30 days trial or full refund including shipment?
and OUTLAW for my processor 990 and amp 7075 (combo) tagged at U$999.

Has anyone had experience with any of this two brands?

Additionally, I see most people (or at least a lot) use Velodyne as ther subwoofer, would it be recommended mixing different speakers brands in the array?

thanks!

Aperion Audio is an excellent internet direct company. Given the nature of buying internet direct, you generally (and certainly applies here) get more quality for the dollar sign.


Outlaw Audio has been recognized by many audiophiles to deliver some of the best bass for the money. You definitely wouldn't be disappointed with any of their stuff.

Some other internet direct brands that you might be interested in -

* elementalDesign

* Orb Audio

* SVSound

* Epic Audio

* AV123 <-- be sure to give them a look

* Fluance <-- make some great stuff for the economic trading card


Peace
 
Wharfedale fan

My setup includes a pair of Wharfedale Evo 40s for the front, Evo Center Channel, and Wharfedale Evo 20s for back surrounds. The 40s also serve as a two channel setup for audio listening. They are powered by a Pioneer Elite receiver and a Pioneer Elite DVD, SACD, DVD Audio player.

I have been quite happy with this setup for the past couple of years, but I am looking to upgrade components. I have heard McIntosh pairs well with the Wharfedales. Only way to know is to listen, so next step is to audition the McIntosh products at home. I am certainly open to other suggestions if anyone has any.

Never really been a fan of Bose and feel they are overpriced.
 
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