Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
I’m not being pedantic. We are specifically discussing the inclusion of a built-in reader. If we want to discuss external readers, that‘s a different discussion.

You are making an assumption that Mac users are using SD cards at approximately the same rate as 10 years ago despite a near-90% drop-off in camera sales.

No, I'm making the assumption that SD card usage for photography among pro Mac users has dropped considerably less than SD card usage for photography among all users.

Why?

Very simple: most of that drop you're seeing is people moving from PoS cameras to smartphone cameras, which have long since surpassed PoS cameras in convenience and feature set, and often meet or surpass them in image results as well. Smartphone cameras often don't have SD cards (for one, no iPhone ever did), and even when they do, people often don't see the point in using that when they can simply upload the photo somewhere directly.

But pro camera use is a very different beast: the phone oftentimes isn't good enough, even if it were, editing right on the phone wouldn't be as useful due to screen size, and transferring to a bigger machine therefore is useful, which is where SD cards (and other media) come in.

Therefore, while your chart isn't wrong at all, and might be appropriate for a decision for the MacBook Air, it isn't for the MacBook Pro.

 
  • Like
Reactions: SteveW928
No, I'm making the assumption that SD card usage for photography among pro Mac users has dropped considerably less than SD card usage for photography among all users.

Why?

Very simple: most of that drop you're seeing is people moving from PoS cameras to smartphone cameras, which have long since surpassed PoS cameras in convenience and feature set, and often meet or surpass them in image results as well. Smartphone cameras often don't have SD cards (for one, no iPhone ever did), and even when they do, people often don't see the point in using that when they can simply upload the photo somewhere directly.

But pro camera use is a very different beast: the phone oftentimes isn't good enough, even if it were, editing right on the phone wouldn't be as useful due to screen size, and transferring to a bigger machine therefore is useful, which is where SD cards (and other media) come in.

Therefore, while your chart isn't wrong at all, and might be appropriate for a decision for the MacBook Air, it isn't for the MacBook Pro.
You are making the assumption that most MBP users use pro cameras. A lot of people with MBPs don’t use them for photography at all. The MBP is not just for photographers. I know lots of app developers and web developers that use them.
 
You are making the assumption that most MBP users use pro cameras.

I am making the assumption that many MBP users do, and if you've ever looked at the way Apple markets MBP, so does Apple.

A lot of people with MBPs don’t use them for photography at all. The MBP is not just for photographers. I know lots of app developers and web developers that use them.

As a software developer with an MBP, I am quite aware of this. It doesn't make the chart any less misleading.
 
It is possible that SD cards are rebounding, but is it enough to overcome a hundred-million loss in sales per year? I doubt it.
Sure, but Apple don't make digital cameras or SD cards, and they don't have to recoup camera sales as long as there are still millions people using them who see having a SD slot in their Mac as an advantage. Then there's all the other devices I mentioned that use SDs: Sales of dashcams, drones, Raspberry Pis and similar are rocketing at the moment.

The reason for the big drop in digital camera sales is the total collapse in consumer "compact" cameras - because phones - which you can see from your chart - the % of interchangeable lens cameras has gone from about 10% to over 50%. It's pretty clearly levelling out, and people who buy expensive interchangeable-lens digicams don't replace them every year or so, especially if they've spent 5x the cost of the camera on lenses, tripods, external flash etc... and those people are more likely to be high-end Mac Pro customers c.f. people who are satisfied by phone cameras (which produce impressive photos - by applying the photograhic equivalent of "autotune").

Is there an element of "2016 called" about Apple re-introducing SD in 2021? Maybe - but it looks like it is happening.
 
  • Like
Reactions: chucker23n1
No amount of TB4 ports is going to fix the embarrassing "uhhh… all I have is USB-C" — "haha, Mac users, amirite" situation.
No amount of any port type is going to stop a percentage of people being idiots.

I've been using a Mac since I was about 8. LONG before USB anything was a thing.

Guess what kids said then: "haha you have a Mac".

If you're seriously suggesting that you need a different port type because you're embarrassed by the type of ports your computer has, I'd suggest you need to re-evaluate your priorities in life.

USB-C displays aren't much more of a thing in 2021 than they were in 2016. They barely exist.
LG's US monitor page lists 59 with HDMI, 19 with USB-C, 6 with TB3 and 17 with DisplayPort.

Dell's US monitor page lists 86 with HDMI, 83 with DisplayPort, 22 with USB-C, 2 with mini-DP, 32 with VGA, 1 with DVI 1 with MHL.

If you limit it to ~4K and higher (or those weird ultra wide 3440 resolutions), all of a sudden USB-C is a lot more prevalent: 4/13/12 (DP,HDMI/USB-C) for LG, 17/16/7 (DP, HDMI, USB-C) for Dell.

but until and unless both VESA and the HDMI Forum get convinced to drop the DisplayPort (might happen… full-size DisplayPort isn't really that common anyway) and HDMI (not gonna happen in a million years) connectors, this problem remains.
I mean the stats above show that both type-C is not 'non-existent' and for manufacturers like Dell, regular DP is as common as HDMI on higher resolution panels.

The whole point of USB-C is that VESA don't need to "drop" the full sized DP port. People have have USB A/B cables for decades and managed with the ends being different.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Nütztjanix
Sure, but Apple don't make digital cameras or SD cards, and they don't have to recoup camera sales as long as there are still millions people using them who see having a SD slot in their Mac as an advantage. Then there's all the other devices I mentioned that use SDs: Sales of dashcams, drones, Raspberry Pis and similar are rocketing at the moment.

The reason for the big drop in digital camera sales is the total collapse in consumer "compact" cameras - because phones - which you can see from your chart - the % of interchangeable lens cameras has gone from about 10% to over 50%. It's pretty clearly levelling out, and people who buy expensive interchangeable-lens digicams don't replace them every year or so, especially if they've spent 5x the cost of the camera on lenses, tripods, external flash etc... and those people are more likely to be high-end Mac Pro customers c.f. people who are satisfied by phone cameras (which produce impressive photos - by applying the photograhic equivalent of "autotune").

Is there an element of "2016 called" about Apple re-introducing SD in 2021? Maybe - but it looks like it is happening.
I believe you and the others advocating for an SD card slot are greatly overestimating the number of Mac users that actually need one. People that spend thousands on pro cameras most likely have thunderbolt hubs too for all the removable media they use, most of which have SD card readers built-in. I think the number of professional photographers is small, and the number of them that don’t already have another way to read SD cards is even smaller.

Again, I admit it’s possible Apple will see the SD card slot as a possible selling point and include it. But let’s face it. Most people will never use it even if they put it in there.
 
Again, I admit it’s possible Apple will see the SD card slot as a possible selling point and include it. But let’s face it. Most people will never use it even if they put it in there.
Could be. (Personally, I don’t care. I do hope HDMI comes back, though.)
 
Excuse me, Stephen, but you have been mercilessly and obstinately discounting my use-case of a Mac mini that doesn't need to be plugged in. I need a battery. How much could it raise the price to add a battery, and who would possibly object to having a built in UPS, and being able to use their iMac on the kitchen table without worrying about a power cable being tripped over?

An iMac doesn't have the keyboard attached to the screen. It still has the screen connected to the CPU, which is sad for future value and bad for performance, but at least the keyboard and trackpad are separate and have rechargeable batteries.

I want the UPS to be built in, like it is in a MacBook Air/pro. That way I don't have to carry a 20 pound battery with me if I want to use my desktop on a different desk without having to shut it down.

Not that the use case here is zero (it isn't), but it's quite niche.

It's also not clear if you want a Mac mini with a battery, or an iMac with a battery.

For a Mac mini: headless computers that can be be powered with just a USB-C powerbank are a thing; I did precisely this kind of setup last week for experimentation on a vessel. I'm a bit surprised that Apple isn't going that very route for the mini — 100W should be plenty. If they were to do that, get a Mac mini, get a powerbank (someone might even make one to perfectly match the Mac mini, or even wrap it in some way), done.

For an iMac, that seems really impractical. The display draws too much power, and the use case is somehow even more niche. That kitchen setup? That already exists and is called a MacBook or iPad. You'd be adding a bigger screen, which in a kitchen is often more of a downside, really, and you'd be removing any input devices. Just grab a $329 iPad and put it in your kitchen.
 
I want a usb-c powered Mini with a built-in battery, and a choice of display sizes 16"-20"-24"-32" all with built-in battery and HDMI inputs to use as tv monitor. I think the AIO display-forever-married-to-cpu form factor should be ditched, but as long as they are making it, iMac should have a battery too. Why do you like having to plug it in? It used to be necessary because desktops drew too much power, even a big UPS could only cover 30 minutes, loudly beeping an alarm as if a nuclear meltdown is happening, but that's not true anymore.
 
I want a usb-c powered Mini with a built-in battery, and a choice of display sizes 16"-20"-24"-32" all with built-in battery and HDMI inputs to use as tv monitor. I think the AIO display-forever-married-to-cpu form factor should be ditched, but as long as they are making it, iMac should have a battery too. Why do you like having to plug it in? It used to be necessary because desktops drew too much power, even a big UPS could only cover 30 minutes, loudly beeping an alarm as if a nuclear meltdown is happening, but that's not true anymore.
Well keep wishing for that in one hand and ******** in the other and see which fills up first.

Laptops exist.

with the advent of m1, there’s very little difference in performance between the desktops and laptops.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SuperMatt
This is highly, highly unlikely. If one lives in an area with power outages, one should install a UPS if one has worries about losing work. It’s way too expensive to add to the power supply for something seldom, if ever, needed. It will unnecessarily raise the price (and size of the PS) for most people who don’t need it.

I do see a use-case with a MagSafe connector on a desktop, though. At least enough power to cover an, "oops, I knocked the dang plug off the computer again... quick plug it back in!" The problem here is that even if you have it hooked to a UPS, that won't save you.

... You are making an assumption that Mac users are using SD cards at approximately the same rate as 10 years ago despite a near-90% drop-off in camera sales. ...
There wasn’t enough motivation for Apple to include an SD slot on any MBP since 2016 nor in any M1 Mac so far. That being said, it’s certainly within the realm of possibility that they would include it on a high-end MBP in order to appeal to professional content creators and editors. ...

I'm sure use has fallen, but the higher end MBPs are the exact target market where their use is fairly likely. I don't think the design decision for the 2016 was driven by use-case numbers. It was driven by a goal of having a few tiny ports only.

I believe you and the others advocating for an SD card slot are greatly overestimating the number of Mac users that actually need one. People that spend thousands on pro cameras most likely have thunderbolt hubs too for all the removable media they use, most of which have SD card readers built-in.
Yeah, but when you're using a laptop as a laptop (like a photographer out in the field, or an IT pro in the server room, etc.), those kind of things are a royal pain. Sure, when you're 'docked' back at the office, it might actually be more convenient to use the dock.
 
Regarding all this USB-C/Thunderbolt 3 talk, I can safely say that I'm glad that a couple months ago getting my M1 MacBook Air marked the first time I bought a computer with USB-C (technically Thunderbolt 3/USB 4) ports, as they've become more common and widespread nowadays. My brother's HP laptop has at least one of the ports (and we had to get a USB-C to Ethernet adapter so he could use our wired Internet line for when the Wi-Fi is acting up). And since there are LOTS of USB-C hubs and devices out there, in addition to getting a nice Falwedi 10-in-1 USB-C hub to use with my MacBook Air (it gives me three USB 3 ports, SD and MicroSD card slots, HDMI and VGA output, a Gigabit Ethernet port, a 3.5mm audio in/out jack and an extra USB-C port for charging the laptop), last week I even bought a LaCie 4 TB rugged external hard drive that has a direct USB-C connection, so I don't always have to use the hub for plugging in external storage!
4BEC35B8-1324-421C-8576-A6C4E97BAC53_1_105_c.jpeg

The drive also came with a USB-C to USB-A cable so I can use it with my quad-core i7 Mac Mini, or the late 2009 21" iMac I use at my workplace.

90B0233D-4904-4C0B-A4D4-57CA3C0AC66C_1_105_c.jpeg

I even got Apple's Thunderbolt 3-to-2 adapter and the FireWire-to-Thunderbolt adapter, and when I daisy-chain them together and hook up my older MiniDV or Digital8 camcorders I can import from the compatible videotapes onto my MacBook Air using Quicktime Player, iMovie or Final Cut Pro! (Adobe Premiere Pro CC on the Mac still doesn't support standard DV capture, only HDV.)

Of course once I get one of those new higher-end Mac Minis next year, I'll probably also get a nice Thunderbolt 3/4 dock to use with it, like this one OWC makes, and still use the Falwedi USB-C hub for when I'm on the go with my MacBook Air.
 
i would actually prefer power supply, easily replaceable....which would made the new mini ice cold ;) ....my 2011 was once burned the PSU inside it's pretty troublesome to get it repair....(i keep it on 24/7)


or may be even powered by usb c ! ;) like just the MBP ! that's even better ! i can use any 3rd party high power charger with some of my pi. pls made it type c apple !!!
 
i would actually prefer power supply, easily replaceable....which would made the new mini ice cold ;) ....my 2011 was once burned the PSU inside it's pretty troublesome to get it repair....(i keep it on 24/7)
Yeah, different benefits and negatives, or tradeoffs. Something can always go wrong with any machine. I don't hear about too many Apple power supplies failing. I don't imagine they would sell you a replacement cheap, but it probably would cost less than a repair, I'll grant you that.
 
I've owned both types of Mac Minis with the plastic top and all aluminum housing. Both had bluetooth issues on rare occasions and it would frustrate me when it occurred. It looks like those issues have continued from the comments I have read. I wonder if it's a simple fix that just involves a better bluetooth antenna. In any case, I'm hoping for the best on the Mac Mini M1 I just purchased. There was a really good deal on the 8GB model and I had a need for a small form factor desktop.
 
It's not that hard to add extra hubs and docks. Having a soldered-in SSD is not a big deal - it's not that hard to add an external SSD. It's not that hard to order as much RAM as you're ever going to need...

I really prefer Mac OS to Windows or Linux but if the list of things that "It's not that hard to do" grows much longer, then the last entry in that list is going to be "It's not that hard to switch to Windows and put together a nice mini-tower PC that it's not hard to hide under your desk and install all of the storage, RAM, extra ports that you need nicely inside."

...and, yes, for a while, the M1 is going to be unassailable if you want something with the portability of a MacBook Air or iPad with the power of a desktop i7, but if you actually want a desktop then there are all sorts of interesting AMD Ryzen options that are much better than that i7, and a wide choice of quiet/silent cases to put them in to.

Fortunately, this Mac-even-more-mini is currently just a rumour. With the M1x/M2/whatever I want to see what Apple Silicon can do when size/power isn't the number one constraint - and that includes more than just cramming more cores in. "Ultra-small, long battery life" was just the low-hanging fruit - if "look how small it is" is still going to be the USP of the higher-end Apple Silicon Macs.

This wouldn't be an issue if Apple made a headless desktop somewhere between the Mac Mini and the Mac Pro (...which doesn't even begin to offer value for money unless you want to fit $10k worth of CPU upgrade, GPUs and RAM).
I mean I’d far prefer a removable ssd and ram and such but I really don’t think an external power brick is a problem whatsoever. I just don’t feel like most people are being objective when they act like it’s so bad. How bad is that power brick really gonna hurt your setup? lol they’re just mad about change at that point.
 
I've owned both types of Mac Minis with the plastic top and all aluminum housing. Both had bluetooth issues on rare occasions and it would frustrate me when it occurred. It looks like those issues have continued from the comments I have read. I wonder if it's a simple fix that just involves a better bluetooth antenna. ...

Apple has a history of BT issues, both stemming from case/antenna design, but also for a long time there were considerable issues with their networking stacks in regard to both BT and WiFi (I think it was worst in the mid-to-late 2000s).

My issues (which I mentioned previously) I don't think are related to anything in particular about my mini. I think it was some kind of interference in my location at the time. It would work pretty flawlessly, then for a period of time, was completely unusable. For example, when you'd try moving the cursor with a trackpad mouse, you'd just get erratic movements. Then, at some point, it would just clear up and be 100% solid again.

What's weird, is that other BT devices, like headphones or PS4 controllers, etc. seemed perfectly stable. That aspect doesn't make a ton of sense, but in decades of using Playstation controllers, I've never had an issue. I'm not sure how Sony gets them to be so robust in comparison to other BT devices.

I mean I’d far prefer a removable ssd and ram and such but I really don’t think an external power brick is a problem whatsoever. I just don’t feel like most people are being objective when they act like it’s so bad. How bad is that power brick really gonna hurt your setup? lol they’re just mad about change at that point.

As mentioned before, +/- and tradeoffs. They make the device smaller (but bigger overall if the power brick is taken into account). They remove heat from the main device. They are kind of clunky compared to just a simple power cord. They often have proprietary or semi-proprietary connectors (instead of a universal A/C cord or 1 or 2 types).

Probably the biggest thing, though (which is inappropriate in this case), is that devices with external power bricks are typically seen as unreliable. A lot of manufacturers like the simplicity of removing the power supply, and then just buy the cheapest external brick they can find and throw it in the box with their product. Apple doesn't do that (or at least hasn't), so that very negative view of power-bricks might be weighing in here for some.
 
  • Like
Reactions: futurist101
Probably the biggest thing, though (which is inappropriate in this case), is that devices with external power bricks are typically seen as unreliable.
Perhaps in the consumer marketplace. But in corporate 24/7 environments many, many workstations have been using external power bricks on MFF machines for years and they have proven to be every bit as reliable as internal PSU's.

I do, definitely prefer the simplicity of just plugging into the mains. But seeing as these machine will (most probably) be completely non-user-take-apartable machines it makes sense that the one thing (outside of a dead logic board) that might fail is easily customer replaceable.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SteveW928
I do see a use-case with a MagSafe connector on a desktop, though. At least enough power to cover an, "oops, I knocked the dang plug off the computer again... quick plug it back in!" The problem here is that even if you have it hooked to a UPS, that won't save you.
My understanding is that the iMac's magnetic plug is has a much stronger connection than the laptop MagSafe so the chances of accidentally unplugging it are minimal. But if the choices are either unplugging the computer or having it crash to the floor, which would you prefer?

But whereas I've always has had Mac laptops since the Duo days, I've been considering a headless Mini plus 13" iPad Pro over a new MacBook Pro and 13" iPad Pro; the former is a less expensive combination and since I can use the iPad as an XDR Mac display, either over wifi or USB with the Luna dongle, it's a pretty solid justification for spending that much on an iPad.
 
Last edited:
My understanding is that the iMac's magnetic plug is has a much stronger connection than the laptop MagSafe so the chances of accidentally unplugging it are minimal. But if the choices are either unplugging the computer or having it crash to the floor, which would you prefer?

But whereas I've always has had Mac laptops since the Duo days, I've been considering a headless Mini plus 13" iPad Pro over a new MacBook Pro and 13" iPad Pro; the former is a less expensive combination and since I can use the iPad as an XDR Mac display, either over wifi or USB with the Luna dongle, it's a pretty solid justification for spending that much on an iPad.
You can adjust the angle of the whole computer by pulling the magsafe so yeah, it is pretty strong...
 
  • Like
Reactions: SteveW928
My understanding is that the iMac's magnetic plug is has a much stronger connection than the laptop MagSafe so the chances of accidentally unplugging it are minimal. But if the choices are either unplugging the computer or having it crash to the floor, which would you prefer?

But whereas I've always has had Mac laptops since the Duo days, I've been considering a headless Mini plus 13" iPad Pro over a new MacBook Pro and 13" iPad Pro; the former is a less expensive combination and since I can use the iPad as an XDR Mac display, either over wifi or USB with the Luna dongle, it's a pretty solid justification for spending that much on an iPad.

Good point, and hopefully it's *really* strong. But, I guess my main point (in support of the built-in battery idea) is now that these devices are so low power, it would actually be possible to put a small-ish battery in which could power it over small 'accidents' or the more likely brown-outs and such that people w/o UPSs *WILL* experience over the years.

Ironically (to the supposed purpose), I've never had a MagSafe connector save one of my many MBPs over the years. I just loved the way it feels (and functionality) when I plug it in, compared to, say, plugging in a USB-C or other non-MagSafe power connections. And, I'm probably more worried about a port getting broken than the device being pulled off (my son's MBP cord actually got caught by a carpet-cleaning machine recently, and *luckily* only the cord/plug got broken, not the laptop... which did get pulled to the floor... it did destroy a couple $hundred worth of peripherals).

And, I suppose some home/office environments are different, but the likelihood of an iMac getting pulled off a desk by the cord seem pretty darn slim as well.

As to your potential Mini / iPad future, just be sure you're happy with an iPad for your mobile life. I've done that for years, but it isn't all Apple makes it up to be. First, the workflows are often different, and lots of hoops to jump. It isn't any where near as productive unless you do really simplistic computing tasks (web browsing, writing, etc.).

My mobile computing needs have dramatically dropped, so I'm getting away with it. But every time we've taken a trip and I intend on getting some stuff done, I've always failed, mostly due to just not being willing to jump the hoops, putting it off until I get back. (I get other more iPad oriented stuff done, but skip stuff I wanted to get done.)
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.