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QCassidy352

macrumors G5
Mar 20, 2003
12,028
6,036
Bay Area
Celeron said:
Personally, I prefer Honda/Acura. I'm looking to buy a Acura TSX here in the near future and interior quality and fit and finish is MILES and MILES ahead of anything I have seen recently in an American made car. The quality of the plastics and other materials is simply not the same.

A Honda, even a cheap one like a civic, will hold up better than any car on the market except possibly a BMW. There's a reason the accord is the best selling sedan in America for god knows how many years.
 

bousozoku

Moderator emeritus
Jun 25, 2002
15,549
1,696
Lard
Rod Rod said:
Just in case you were referring to exterior plastics: The current design direction for Pontiac is away from cheesy plastics. The G6 has no extra plastic add-ons as Grand Ams have had in the past. The G6, GTO (rebadged Holden Monaro for you Australians), Solstice, Grand Prix and Bonneville all reflect the new, clean-lines look at Pontiac. If you were to put aside your Japanese cars-bias you could examine the picture at the beginning of this thread for cheesy plastics.

In case you were referring to interior plastics, current Cadillacs and Buicks have better plastics than the other lines, and within the other lines the upmarket cars have nicer interior plastics than the lower end ones (example: Corvette).

It's easy to knock American cars because of what that rolled off assembly lines before.

As Tommy! said, current American cars are way better than past American cars. Styling wise, American cars are way better than anything out of Japan (with one possible exception, the Honda S2000). Japanese cars tend to be plain in the styling department. Compare anything out of Japan to the Chrysler 300 / Dodge Magnum.

I was talking about the interior plastics and what I saw at the Orlando auto show last Thanksgiving, so not so far back. I am certainly happy to knock GM because of what I've experienced in person, not because I'm bored. By the way, I don't have a Japanese car bias--I'll speak out against anything inferior. Check out the Audi A4 thread. :D

I was interested in the Pontiac Vibe/Toyota Matrix pair. How could the same car be so different? When I sat down in the driver's seat, I could nearly feel the seat frame. The plastics were cheesy. The gauges were cheesy. I walked over to the Toyota section and was pleasantly surprised. It couldn't be the same car. I've always considered Toyota to be the GM of Japan, but the Matrix was good.

I've seen the Chrysler 300 and Dodge Magnum wagon lately and I've got to say "no thanks" to those but at least, they're different. I wouldn't be too concerned about Chrysler's quality because even my parents cheapo Plymouth Voyager minivan is quite good. Ford has a few good products too.
 

slughead

macrumors 68040
Apr 28, 2004
3,107
237
The best GM car I ever owned was a Chevy (yes, chevy) prism, which, of course, is made by toyota (it's really a corolla with a chevy logo).
 

yg17

macrumors Pentium
Aug 1, 2004
15,027
3,002
St. Louis, MO
my old car was a 97 pontiac grand am that my parents gave me, biggest piece of crap ever. That car and my mom's pontiac van have made up my mind to never, ever own another gm car again, corvettes included (besides, I'd rather have other cars for the price).

I was glad to get that POS totaled. now I have a 2004 Hyundai Tiburon....before you say Hyundai's are worse than GM, ect....they've come a long way in the last few years and are now up with toyota and honda in reliability ratings. And in the 8 months I've had it, I have not had a single problem with it. When my parents got the grand am, brand new back in 97, after 8 months, the thing was a couple repairs from getting replaced under the lemon laws
 

slipper

macrumors 68000
Original poster
Nov 19, 2003
1,561
44
Rod Rod said:
American cars are way better than anything out of Japan
lol thats the biggest load of crap i heard on macforums to date.
 

MacNut

macrumors Core
Jan 4, 2002
22,991
9,969
CT
I would agree with the quality of GM cars, my mom's 99 Olds Intrigue is the worst pos ever, it seems to be in the shop more than it is on the road.
 

yg17

macrumors Pentium
Aug 1, 2004
15,027
3,002
St. Louis, MO
IMO, GM's biggest mistake is having so many models. Look at Chevy alone, how many new or redesigned cars came out in the past 2 years? Equonox, SSR, Cobalt, Vette C6, Colorado and the Uplander. Plus all the other existing Chevy vehicles. That's a ton of cars to build and keep track of, it would be almost impossible for a Chevy plant to produce all those cars with quality work and make sure everything's right, so corners get cut and cars make it to the dealers that are below standard. Now factor in all the other GM models and of course you're going to have poor build quality. Now take into account all the Japanese/Korean cars, the companies are looking over 2 model lines max: Hyundai/Kia, Honda/Acura, Nissan/Infiniti with the exception being Toyota that has 3, Toyota, Lexus and Scion. Since they're producing fewer models, they have the ability to make sure every car that comes off the assembly line meets standards
 

jsalzer

macrumors 6502a
Jan 18, 2004
607
0
TradeMark

MacNut said:
This brings up a good point, doesnt Motorola or IBM or Apple own the rights to the trademark G6?

I think the key word here is "trade". The Apple/Motorola/IBM GX is in the computer trade. Pontiac's G6 is in the automobile trade. It's when IBM starts making cars or Pontiac starts making computers that they run into problems with trademarks.

It's kind of like Edge. Pepsi can use it, but SanDisk can't.

A copyright, on the other hand, spans all trades.
 

Aciddan

macrumors member
Jun 4, 2002
90
1
Australia
Celeron said:
Too bad its made by Pontiac, which means its crap. Give me a Japanese car anyday.

Actually, the car to get is what you call the "Pontiac GTO" - which actually isn't a Pontiac at all, but this: http://www.holden.com.au/www-holden/action/modeloverview?modelid=12001 and is made in Australia. From what I understand, it has the same engine as one of the corvette models...

While I'm actually a Peugeot fan personally, Sometimes the pure grunt of something like the Monaro coupe is appealing (+ the subtle lines, don't know about those air intakes on the latest version though...)

There's also an AWD version built by HSV (Holden Special Vehicles) that can do 0-100 in 6.5 seconds...




... on gravel! :eek:

-- Dan :D
 

Rod Rod

macrumors 68020
Sep 21, 2003
2,180
6
Las Vegas, NV
slipper said:
lol thats the biggest load of crap i heard on macforums to date.

When you take things out of context, you're the one delivering the "biggest load of crap." Your Japanese car bias has wrecked your reading comprehension.


Rod Rod said:
Styling wise, American cars are way better than anything out of Japan (with one possible exception, the Honda S2000). Japanese cars tend to be plain in the styling department. Compare anything out of Japan to the Chrysler 300 / Dodge Magnum.

slipper, tell me which Japanese cars are not plain-Jane in their styling outside of sports cars. Current American cars have more style than their Japanese counterparts.


yg17 said:
I was glad to get that POS totaled.

I hope nobody got hurt.
 

bousozoku

Moderator emeritus
Jun 25, 2002
15,549
1,696
Lard
yg17 said:
IMO, GM's biggest mistake is having so many models. Look at Chevy alone, how many new or redesigned cars came out in the past 2 years? Equonox, SSR, Cobalt, Vette C6, Colorado and the Uplander. Plus all the other existing Chevy vehicles. That's a ton of cars to build and keep track of, it would be almost impossible for a Chevy plant to produce all those cars with quality work and make sure everything's right, so corners get cut and cars make it to the dealers that are below standard. Now factor in all the other GM models and of course you're going to have poor build quality. Now take into account all the Japanese/Korean cars, the companies are looking over 2 model lines max: Hyundai/Kia, Honda/Acura, Nissan/Infiniti with the exception being Toyota that has 3, Toyota, Lexus and Scion. Since they're producing fewer models, they have the ability to make sure every car that comes off the assembly line meets standards

Of course, Chevy doesn't really make their vehicles by themselves. GM plants make the various vehicles which use the same chassis.

By the way, when did Hyundai and Kia merge?

Japanese car companies also play the name game and have various brands, not that you see them outside Japan. Mazda, for instance, sold cars under Mazda and Autozam and trucks under the Marvié brand name at one point in time.
 

Celeron

macrumors 6502a
Mar 11, 2004
705
9
Rod Rod said:
slipper, tell me which Japanese cars are not plain-Jane in their styling outside of sports cars. Current American cars have more style than their Japanese counterparts.

You can have the best styling in the world, but what good does it do you when those awesomely styled interiors fall apart in 2 years? Styling is a nice plus, but it isn't everything. There's a lot to say about quality, and American cars just don't match up. You can't dispute that.
 

Chip NoVaMac

macrumors G3
Dec 25, 2003
8,888
31
Northern Virginia
Edot said:
Dude mufflers are meant to wear out. Plus at most places you can get them replaced for free or next to nothing.

To be honest, with him being the "snow belt" there may reason that the mufflers wear out that quickly. Here in the DC area most of us get 60K on a muffler if not more.

But you are right, that does not mean that Toyota builds a bad car. In most other ways they stand way better than most American cars.
 

Chip NoVaMac

macrumors G3
Dec 25, 2003
8,888
31
Northern Virginia
iceTrX said:
Well said.
I don't know how anyone can bash GM vehicles anymore as they are very affordable, and they have made significant quality improvements that may soon rival or surpass japanese auto manufactures (they have already passed european manufactures):

But thanks to the heavy rebates that American cars are forced to give to sell cars, only hurts the consumer in the end. By lower trade-in value.
 

Chip NoVaMac

macrumors G3
Dec 25, 2003
8,888
31
Northern Virginia
makisushi said:
American Cars, Japanese cars, Korean Cars.... WHO CARES


German Cars RULE!

Except for the POS's that VW puts together for the most part for the American market. A recent thread showed that many Golf, Jetta, and Beetle owners are having problems (even in recent models, that for me date back to my '99 Beetle).

Now, I will say at least for VW, nothing drives as sweetly.
 

Rod Rod

macrumors 68020
Sep 21, 2003
2,180
6
Las Vegas, NV
Celeron said:
You can have the best styling in the world, but what good does it do you when those awesomely styled interiors fall apart in 2 years? Styling is a nice plus, but it isn't everything. There's a lot to say about quality, and American cars just don't match up. You can't dispute that.

J.D. Power and Associates disputes that, as IceTrX pointed out. Incidentally, remember the interiors in the 2002-2004 Altimas? The plastics had prominent rough seams.

This is the press release IceTrX referred to earlier:

http://www.jdpa.com/studies_jdpower/pressrelease.asp?StudyID=860
 

Chip NoVaMac

macrumors G3
Dec 25, 2003
8,888
31
Northern Virginia
Celeron said:
You can have the best styling in the world, but what good does it do you when those awesomely styled interiors fall apart in 2 years? Styling is a nice plus, but it isn't everything. There's a lot to say about quality, and American cars just don't match up. You can't dispute that.

And what does style have to do with it if you are visiting the dealer every 4 to 6 weeks to fix things that just don't seem to go wrong with the Japanese makers?
 

Chip NoVaMac

macrumors G3
Dec 25, 2003
8,888
31
Northern Virginia
Rod Rod said:
J.D. Power and Associates disputes that, as IceTrX pointed out. Incidentally, remember the interiors in the 2002-2004 Altimas? The plastics had prominent rough seams.

This is the press release IceTrX referred to earlier:

http://www.jdpa.com/studies_jdpower/pressrelease.asp?StudyID=860

As wrong as they are at times, I have more faith in Consumer Reports and their members experiences with the various makes.
 

Rod Rod

macrumors 68020
Sep 21, 2003
2,180
6
Las Vegas, NV
Chip NoVaMac said:
But thanks to the heavy rebates that American cars are forced to give to sell cars, only hurts the consumer in the end. By lower trade-in value.

Lower tradein value doesn't hurt this consumer.

I look for 1-2 year old American cars which still have 12-24k miles and 1-2 years of warranty left. At 35k miles I take my car to my mechanic to go over it with a fine toothed comb so everything warranty-replaceable gets replaced at my next stop, the dealership.

I am grateful to all the Honda and Toyota lovers who contribute to the high resale values on those brands.

That leaves a depression in demand for the cars I like, and I get to save a ton of money in the process.

Here's a good example on the Japanese side: Remember the last bodystyle of the Subaru SVX? Its resale value was extremely low. It was a quality car... not a super-fast sports car like the 300zx but rather an all-weather GT car (in the classic sense).

Demand drives resale value and not always quality. The Subaru SVX was a high quality car but it just didn't have the mass appeal that other sporty cars had.
 
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