Chip NoVaMac said:
http://www.jdpower.com/cc/auto/about/about_ratings.asp
J. D. Power collects their data from consumers.
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Holy cow! the new G6!
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http://www.jdpower.com/cc/auto/about/about_ratings.asp
J. D. Power collects their data from consumers.
Rod Rod said:
I would rather benefit, than having you benefit. That is the reason that I probably will never by an "American" brand ever again.
Rod Rod said:
Evidently you have never been "pressured" by the salesperson to give high marks on the survey. I have heard every excuse in the world for giving high marks.
With CU, the results are based (rightly or wrongly) on their own experiences with the brands. I know who I would trust after 30 to 60 days of ownership. And it is NOT J.D. Powers - a mouth piece to the companies that pay them.
Chip NoVaMac said:
It's win-win though. We both benefit, even if you never buy an American car again. You contribute to the demand that keeps Japanese brands' resale values higher, which at the same time has the opposite effect on American brands' resale values. Thanks.
Chip NoVaMac said:
What sort of person would bend to such pressure? When you leave the dealership the salesperson is no longer over your shoulder or on your back. Filling out a survey that came in the mail or answering some questions over the phone aren't done at the sales lot.
CU and JDPA have the same methodology except that CU also conducts in-house testing. The survey-taking is the same as far as reports of reliability, service, overall experience and satisfaction.
Hyundai and Kia have always been the same company. And isnt Mazda made by Ford now?
Wow, 1-2 years of warrany left, thats a lot
[/sarcasm] Wanna now how many years my car will have left on the warranty in 2 years? 8, yes 8. Another reason imports beat American cars, they typically have longer, better warranties. GM is what, 3 years? If you want 5 years you gotta buy the extended warranty? I drove my car off the lot with a 10 year 100k mile warranty without spending an extra dime for it.
and as far as interiors go...I've sat in a corvette and I've sat in a civic (both 2004s) While you would hope the $50,000 corvette had the better interior, the interior on the $12,000 Civic was much better and seemed to be a higher quality.
yg17 said:Wow, 1-2 years of warrany left, thats a lot
GM is what, 3 years? If you want 5 years you gotta buy the extended warranty? I drove my car off the lot with a 10 year 100k mile warranty without spending an extra dime for it.
That 10-year, 100,000 mile warranty only covers the powertrain. The powertrain is very very hard to break.
The 3 year/36,000-mile warranty I'm talking about is bumper to bumper.
Sorry about the misplaced eye-rolling and sarcasm.
Rod Rod said:
You would be surprised. I am not sure that you ever worked or work in "high-end" sales, but the impression you leave the customer means more than you think.
Beyond that, I would rather trust the consumer that paid their money to CU, than companies that paid money to J.D. Powers. To be honest I have been part of the JD surveys, but they are generally within the first 60 to 90 days of ownership. Which really says nothing really about the quality of the product. To be fair, people like me can slam the New Beetle based on our experiences.
Forgive me, but it sounds as if you work for one of the American makers, or J. D. Powers.
yg17 said:
No. Mazda cars are made by Mazda. Ford has a 51 percent stake in Mazda Motors, though.
I just talked to a friend from Korea and he reminded me that Hyundai bought Kia when it was up for auction but wanted it to keep the corporate identity. Daewoo wasn't so lucky since GM bought the assets and split things up with Suzuki (12 percent owned by GM, I believe) got 3 of the car designs.
Rod Rod said:That 10-year, 100,000 mile warranty only covers the powertrain. The powertrain is very very hard to break.
The 3 year/36,000-mile warranty I'm talking about is bumper to bumper.
Sorry about the misplaced eye-rolling and sarcasm.
im aware of that, my bumper to bumper is still 5 years though. but with my pontiac POS, just about everything that broke would be covered under a power train warranty, this, 10 years on some GM pile of crap could come in quite handy
I live in Belgium, in Europe.. Here it is not very common to drive an American car. But my dad (and I) are huge fans..
He had a Chevrolet blazer, bought in 1980, very good car!
he had a Pontiac Transport bought some 12 years later, medium car.
he had a Chevrolet Transport bought 6 years ago, pretty good car.
now he drives a Chevrolet Trailblazer. wich is a very very very good Car!!!!
only problem here in Europe is the price of the gas!! american cars tend to drink like a teenager on newyears eve!.. So we had all these cars (except the pontiac) converted to GPL or LPG, I don't know if this is a common thing in US to do, or if you know it. its with Liquid Pressure Gas. no Gasoline..
here, we pay about 1 $ for our gas.. except we get a litre, you guys get a gallon, wich is about 4 times as much..
LPG cost about 33ct. that's worth the conversion..
My personal dream is a Corvette.. smooth slik car..
Here, you see BMW, and Mercedes like hell. VW, Citroen and Peugot, all those european things. But an american car,... that's a bit more rare..
He had a Chevrolet blazer, bought in 1980, very good car!
he had a Pontiac Transport bought some 12 years later, medium car.
he had a Chevrolet Transport bought 6 years ago, pretty good car.
now he drives a Chevrolet Trailblazer. wich is a very very very good Car!!!!
only problem here in Europe is the price of the gas!! american cars tend to drink like a teenager on newyears eve!.. So we had all these cars (except the pontiac) converted to GPL or LPG, I don't know if this is a common thing in US to do, or if you know it. its with Liquid Pressure Gas. no Gasoline..
here, we pay about 1 $ for our gas.. except we get a litre, you guys get a gallon, wich is about 4 times as much..
LPG cost about 33ct. that's worth the conversion..
My personal dream is a Corvette.. smooth slik car..
Here, you see BMW, and Mercedes like hell. VW, Citroen and Peugot, all those european things. But an american car,... that's a bit more rare..
Don't panic said:
no that would be arnold in his hummer
the arnold whose muscles, made by steroids, turned into fat
yg17 said:
The powertrain is what connects the transmission to the driving axles. The powertrain does not include the engine or transmission. Are you sure it was your drivetrain malfunctioning?
ChipNoVaMac said:
The second to last sentence contradicts the first paragraph. You're right about the first 60 to 90 days. That's why JDPA calls it the initial quality survey.
I just clicked around and found they do additional research beyond the first three months. They have ratings of used cars as well as ratings of how well used cars have retained their value.
For long term quality reporting I find it best to turn to car magazines. For used car value I look at kbb.com and edmunds.com.
I neither work for an American car company nor J.D. Powers. I used to work at a Honda dealership in the service department though. From my experience I can say avoid the fourth-generation Accords with automatic transmissions.
All I know is that I have a 1994 Honda Civic with 197,000+ miles on it and still rockin'. The body is starting to get beaten up but mechanically it is great. I'll be getting rid of it in the spring and will be going with yet another Honda - ya can't beat these cars for low fix-it cost, dependability, etc.
I have one uncle who works for GM and another for Daimer/Chrysler - both of them say the same thing - only suckers buy American engineered/made cars.
I have one uncle who works for GM and another for Daimer/Chrysler - both of them say the same thing - only suckers buy American engineered/made cars.
Rod Rod, take a chill pill. you are taking this theard way to seriously. taste is subjective; i am not going to change your taste in automobiles, vise versa. you make me laugh.
but btw i am absolutely not biased. however i do stand by my earlier response.
but btw i am absolutely not biased. however i do stand by my earlier response.
slipper said:
You stand by your earlier response where you took what I said completely out of context.
Ge4-ce said:
Trying to get older American cars or even current SUVs don't those narrow streets must be tough. I know it is doing that in Japan. That's why they have taxing on the width of a car.
It's easier to be a fan of those cars than to drive and afford them, isn't it?
bousozoku said:
Ford has a controlling stake of 33.4% apparantly (this being the Japanese laws version of a controlling stake), I heard it from the boss of Mazda Europe himself at a presentation at my university a little while ago.
Very interesting it was too, I liked the bit on viral marketing and it's importance in attracting younger buyers, and its low cost. He said something like - "there are rules on what we can broadcast on tv and radio, but on the internet there are no such rules, but the only things that really work are sex, violence and humour...can you guess which one we went with..." cue the tape of a traffic warden being munched up by an RX8.
I was hoping for the one featuring gratuitious sex, but it wasn't to be sadly!
On the American cars thing...I was amazed how cheap the Cadillac Escalade feels when you sit in it, the dash felt so cheap. The G6 I actually like, except the front looks a bit over the top in my view.
I heard those really suck for reliability, not very Subaru-like.Chip NoVaMac said:From your mouth to God's ears. I have a Baja '03.
AliensAreFuzzy said:
My dad's 2000 Subaru Outback couldn't pass emissions even after multiple repair attempts at the Subaru dealer. He ended up trading it in for a 2005 Chevy Equinox.
The Times, They Are aChangin'
While Japanese cars have had good reputations and good quality over the past ten years, evidence inside the industry is showing that they are slipping. Toyota and Honda both have had serious recall issues as of late (Honda has side airbag deployment problems in the Accord and will have to recall many of their 5-speed Autos that grind down the gears - Toyota also has airbag issues and serious oil buildup problems in their V6 engines). GM continues to have recall issues as well, though decreased from the past.
I was a huge fan of Toyota until about last year. As a researcher, I began to collect data on vehicles and what I found was startling - Toyota and Honda's warranty repair claims now run at a higher rate than GMs. Though the interiors may look and feel nicer, they are actually made of cheaper, more brittle materials. Honda leads the industry in its thinness of cloth and leather. Watch out not to tear the seat in a Honda, it's especially easy if you have leather - it's very thin with no backing.
Over the past two years, GM has been catching up - but things are changing. Of note is that most of GM's cars have been running on 20+ year old platforms. No more. GM is using hydroformed steel in their new designs and introducing platforms that are versatile and striking. They also have new technology from their Holden subsidiary in Australia that allows them to build multiple cars on the same line. To top it all off, Bob Lutz, a notorious car guy, is in charge of the models. GM doesn't have the incompetent managers in charge like the did in the 1980s and 1990s. Chrysler has also seen improvement over the past few years. Heck, even Ford has improved somewhat - but it's a fact that Honda and Toyota are having quality issues. As they have expanded, their quality gurus have not been able to keep things under control as in the past. They're running into the same problem that the Americans ran into in the past. Now the Americans are getting past it and the Japanese are getting into it. The trends indicate a big shift over the next five years - likely seeing many Japanese companies taking hits as quality control becomes more of an issue and American manufacturers get more aggressive.
As for the European vehicles, they are statistically the worst built cars in the world. 25% encounter serious warranty issues in the first three years. The American manufacturers have been up there, but now they are around 15% - nearly the same as the Hondas and Toyotas of the world.
While Japanese cars have had good reputations and good quality over the past ten years, evidence inside the industry is showing that they are slipping. Toyota and Honda both have had serious recall issues as of late (Honda has side airbag deployment problems in the Accord and will have to recall many of their 5-speed Autos that grind down the gears - Toyota also has airbag issues and serious oil buildup problems in their V6 engines). GM continues to have recall issues as well, though decreased from the past.
I was a huge fan of Toyota until about last year. As a researcher, I began to collect data on vehicles and what I found was startling - Toyota and Honda's warranty repair claims now run at a higher rate than GMs. Though the interiors may look and feel nicer, they are actually made of cheaper, more brittle materials. Honda leads the industry in its thinness of cloth and leather. Watch out not to tear the seat in a Honda, it's especially easy if you have leather - it's very thin with no backing.
Over the past two years, GM has been catching up - but things are changing. Of note is that most of GM's cars have been running on 20+ year old platforms. No more. GM is using hydroformed steel in their new designs and introducing platforms that are versatile and striking. They also have new technology from their Holden subsidiary in Australia that allows them to build multiple cars on the same line. To top it all off, Bob Lutz, a notorious car guy, is in charge of the models. GM doesn't have the incompetent managers in charge like the did in the 1980s and 1990s. Chrysler has also seen improvement over the past few years. Heck, even Ford has improved somewhat - but it's a fact that Honda and Toyota are having quality issues. As they have expanded, their quality gurus have not been able to keep things under control as in the past. They're running into the same problem that the Americans ran into in the past. Now the Americans are getting past it and the Japanese are getting into it. The trends indicate a big shift over the next five years - likely seeing many Japanese companies taking hits as quality control becomes more of an issue and American manufacturers get more aggressive.
As for the European vehicles, they are statistically the worst built cars in the world. 25% encounter serious warranty issues in the first three years. The American manufacturers have been up there, but now they are around 15% - nearly the same as the Hondas and Toyotas of the world.