How amazingly cheap are YOU?

[D0ct0rteeth]

I sat down with the woman a several months ago and showed her that if we lived "casually" and just did "whatever we wanted" with money and just bought whatever/whenever it would cost us about 8-9k/month. We sat down together and trimmed our budget severely by just living on a plan.

- We only eat out at restaraunts maybe two or three times a month or so, and we specifically have that money budgeted for that purpose. The rest of the month we cook dinner and I make enough for leftovers to take to work for lunch the next day. When we do go out I almost always tip VERY well. I worked at restaraunts. I demand, value and appreciate good service.

- We shop at costco. Use coupons. carpool to work. I turn the heat/air off @ night and when we don't need it (350 electric bill in August was the nail in the coffin). Store brand shampoos wash our hair just fine. Safeway pasta tastes the same as the other stuff - and its always on sale Store brand cleaning supplies smell just as lemonyfresh

- I would cut my own hair - but the woman disaproves. She cut it a few times to not so good results. I've made peace with having someone else do it. Hes good and charges a fair price. I tip him well. (and more importantly the woman is happy)

- I change my own oil every 5,000 miles. Other car work is done witha reliable fair priced local mechanic. We clean our own house, clean/iron our own clothes, polish our own shoes, and do our own yardwork. We dont waste money on paying for services we can do ourselves, do together, and use as teachable moments for our children.

- We sold our 2nd car (60,000 European import sportscar ::cry: Now we only have a single 2-3 year old domestic sedan that we paid cash for and have minimal liability insurance on. Compared to most americans this literally saves us about 1000/month (when compared to 2 car payments and bloated insurance payments on both). They money we WOULD spend on a second car goes into a variety of well researched mutual funds.

- We very rarely see movies in the theatres or even have cable. An avg "movie night" out would be $40-$60, while we can just get a DVD from the local library. Also I read (remember that?) Anything by Dave Ramsey, Thomas Stanley "The Millionaire Next Door", David McCullough, "QBQ! The Question Behind the Question", Rich Dad Poor Dad, "The one minute manager", "The tipping point" and "The go-getter "... "Roaring Lambs", "Good to Great", "Rhinoceros Success", "The 21 irrefutable laws of leadership", "Who moved my cheese?", "The wealthy barber "... I prob read (or listen to audiobooks) 3 books a week. If you aren't reading you aren't growing - and therefore you can't win. If you can tell me who was "voted off the island" or "who can sing on american idol" and you haven't read a good book lately then seriously, what the hell? Why bother even getting out of bed?

- I always buy used if possible, or just haggle to find the deals. (I buy display model furniture, used cars, used computers) The clothes I wear are christmas/birthday presents and I haven't bought my own clothes in years. Its all nice Perry Ellis/Banana Republic/Polo stuff, but I don't need 40 shirts (20 I wouldnt wear) - 15 do me just fine. I have only 3 pairs of shoes (all over a year old - Black. Brown. Running Shoes.)

- I own several business' and write off EVERYTHING. I keep good records and only spend money when I have to, or it will MAKE MONEY.

- I brew my own coffee. No starbucks. No soda. I don't use ATM's, Credit cards or finance ANYTHING (other than my home @ 15yr fixed). If I can get a discount by paying a year, or 2 up front for anything I'll do it. I am not making some banker rich. Its my money. Get your hands off it.

- We work. hard. We show up on time and do what we say we are going to do. We are paid very well because of this. I havent worked a 40hr week as long as I can remember. My avg week is probably 80-90hrs easily. and because of this I am not ever 30 years old and both my daughters have a fully funded college fund already. We live in a beautiful home, that we are going to pay off VERY early, and this will allow us to enjoy our life and spend time with our children.

Don't get me wrong - we don't sit around watching the paint dry and looking for nickels in the couch - we work and live hard. We are engaging intense people. Whatever it is we are doin it! But we live on a plan, and don't just sit there atthe end of the month and wonder where our money went

I lived that way when I was younger. Never again.

 

[floriflee]

- We sold our 2nd car (60,000 European import sportscar ::cry: Now we only have a single 2-3 year old domestic sedan that we paid cash for and have minimal liability insurance on. Compared to most americans this literally saves us about 1000/month (when compared to 2 car payments and bloated insurance payments on both). They money we WOULD spend on a second car goes into a variety of well researched mutual funds.

- We very rarely see movies in the theatres or even have cable. An avg "movie night" out would be $40-$60, while we can just get a DVD from the local library. Also I read (remember that?) Anything by Dave Ramsey, Thomas Stanley "The Millionaire Next Door", David McCullough, "QBQ! The Question Behind the Question", Rich Dad Poor Dad, "The one minute manager", "The tipping point" and "The go-getter "... "Roaring Lambs", "Good to Great", "Rhinoceros Success", "The 21 irrefutable laws of leadership", "Who moved my cheese?", "The wealthy barber "... I prob read (or listen to audiobooks) 3 books a week. If you aren't reading you aren't growing - and therefore you can't win. If you can tell me who was "voted off the island" and you haven't read a good book lately then seriously, what the hell? Why bother even getting out of bed?

Here! Here! We sold our second car and it's been a nice savings not having a car payment, the insurance or the gas/maintenance fees that come with it.

We also rarely go to the movies and opt for Netflix instead. Tonight we're going to a sneak preview of "The Benchwarmers", but only because it's free. We will see "Cars" in the theater, but only because we have two movie gift certificates I got for my b-day last year. We saw a couple of movies in India, but it only cost us like $7 total to see them. When it comes to seeing movies, we're pretty cheap.

 

[BrianDavid0523]

That's very true.

Take the case of my friend. A few months ago, he was excited about the Intel transition, and what is now the MacBook Pro. He asked me about rumors, OS X, processor architecture...

After the MacBook Pro was released, he buys a Dell.

Not just any Dell. First he found a Dell rebate, then he used a $250 credit from Amex, on top of a "coupon" he received from customer service.

It has Yonah, but I'll never understand.

As for me, it's better not to ask. I have a lot of $49 polos, $79 jeans (one pair cost $198), recently a pair of $158 cargo paints from Abercrombie & Fitch. Before your eyes pop out, I work there, so I get 30% off... but it's still a lot! Lately, I have really cut down. But those cargo pants... they are frickin' sweet!

I buy a lot of lunches on campus, but in my defense I commute about two hours each day.

My parents never really taught me money management, so I learn the hard way. Expenses are usually bad, but that doesn't stop me. Like stepping on an ant hill, it's hard to resist.

Wait, I'm the only one? I never said that.

It was a joke...

Those $150 A&F cargo pants were made in a Malasian sweat-shop for about $8.00.

 

[D0ct0rteeth]

We also rarely go to the movies and opt for Netflix instead. Tonight we're going to a sneak preview of "The Benchwarmers", but only because it's free. We will see "Cars" in the theater, but only because we have two movie gift certificates I got for my b-day last year. We saw a couple of movies in India, but it only cost us like $7 total to see them. When it comes to seeing movies, we're pretty cheap.

I was using Netflix for a while, but I cancelled the membership a few months back. I was getting throttled hard - and our library here does a good job. I just request a ton of stuff online and pick em up when they are available. Very similar to Netflix, but free.

I may do a guys night out for X3 or Superman Returns, but I really can't imagine rushing out to see any movies for sure in the theatre anymore. We have akiller home theatre setup. Its better than the theatre, nobody kicks me in the back and there are no punk kids yelling at the screen

 

[D0ct0rteeth]

Those $150 A&F cargo pants were made in a Malasian sweat-shop for about $8.00.

http://search.ebay.com/search/searc...8&satitle=Ezra+Fitch+Premium+Cargo&category0=

and sell for about 60 on eBay

 

[floriflee]

I was using Netflix for a while, but I cancelled the membership a few months back. I was getting throttled hard - and our library here does a good job. I just request a ton of stuff online and pick em up when they are available. Very similar to Netflix, but free.

I may do a guys night out for X3 or Superman Returns, but I really can't imagine rushing out to see any movies for sure in the theatre anymore. We have akiller home theatre setup. Its better than the theatre, nobody kicks me in the back and there are no punk kids yelling at the screen

Hmm.. the library sounds interesting. May have to check what our local library's video collection is like since it's within walking distance.

Our home theater leaves much to be desired. We have a pretty nice speaker system, but our TV is only 13" (can't really complain since it was free). It just doesn't do big movies like LOTR and King Kong justice....

 

[mpw]

The waitresses make below minimum wage, because of the "tip" system...
...I have waitressed and know how grueling it can be, how mean AND cheap a lot of people are...

I agree that the service industry can be hard, but aren't all jobs? a traffic warden has to take more crap per customer than any waiter I imagine but doesn't expect tips to make up his wages.

Maybe people would do better to ask why an employer can pay waiting staff less than the legal minimum wage than carry on helping these mean employers exploit their staff.

Maybe people taking waiting jobs should ask themselves 'can I live on this wage?' before they take the job.

The only thing I'll concede is 'good' about the screwed-up 'system' of tipping in the US is that it at least gives the staff an incentive to do a good job which you often don't get here or the UK in my experience.


I was in the US a few years back and checked-in at my hotel in SF. I had one small case and started toward the lift (elevator) and the porter came over and offered to carry my bag to my room. Now I'm not big on this sort of thing 'cause I don't see why I should expect anybody to carry my stuff for me when I'm perfectly capable, so I politely declined his offer. He insisted I let him and so as not to make a scene at reception I said OK and followed this guy to my room empty handed while he walked really slowly, just what you need when you’ve just got off a 13hr flight and want to hit the head and shower.

So we get to the room and he puts my bag down and just stands waiting for his tip, WTF he wanted to carry my bag so bad he should’ve been tipping me!

Anyway I gave him $1 which he took with disdain.

I showered etc. and then ordered a burger from room service. The price in the menu was something like $8, a little pricey but that’s room service.

When I get the bill I’m charged for an $8 burger + 5% tax + 10% delivery charge + 20% gratuity $11.08! OK I know the US sales tax system adds tax at the POS which the UK doesn’t (we’ve got this stupid system where an item priced £1 on the shelf is still £1 at the check-out! wacky I know) but to add another third is just ***king outrageous. If it cost 10% to deliver why not price the bloody thing at $8.80 on the bloody menu (it’s specifically a room service menu) and a ‘fixed gratuity’ WTF.

Your (the US) system is ***ked-up when it comes to tipping and while the government allow waiting staff to be exploited there likely be little change unless people stop taking those jobs and force employers to provide acceptable wages.

Either way if somebody in the meantime doesn’t choose to tip they shouldn’t be branded a thief.

 

[devilot]

Maybe people taking waiting jobs should ask themselves 'can I live on this wage?' before they take the job.

Your (the US) system is ***ked-up when it comes to tipping and while the government allow waiting staff to be exploited there likely be little change unless people stop taking those jobs and force employers to provide acceptable wages.

Unfortunately, for some people and in some areas-- there are very few jobs and some people have no choice but to go into the service industry, regardless of how fair or unfair their employees/ wages are.

 

[mpw]

Unfortunately, for some people and in some areas-- there are very few jobs and some people have no choice but to go into the service industry, regardless of how fair or unfair their employees/ wages are.

Isn't that why there's a minimum wage? I'm not blaming the waiting staff, or even the employer 100%, it's down to the government to enforce it's own laws and protect their citizens.

 

[floriflee]

The only thing I'll concede is 'good' about the screwed-up 'system' of tipping in the US is that it at least gives the staff an incentive to do a good job which you often don't get here or the UK in my experience.

It's not necessarily SO bad. My little sister is a waitress at a sports bar and she makes very decent money--sometimes better than the non-tipped staff. I think a lot of it depends on how good you can provide service to your customers.

So we get to the room and he puts my bag down and just stands waiting for his tip, WTF he wanted to carry my bag so bad he should’ve been tipping me!

Go to India. They have people on the streets that will either come up to you and blatantly ask for money or will try to aggressively peddle their wares to you (both kinds will even if you are in a car with your windows up stuck in traffic). They also have people in the public bathrooms that will ask for a tip because they either provided toilet paper to you or turned on the water faucet for you. I got "attacked" by a woman when walking out of a temple. She put tikka on my forhead against my will and then followed me for a ways demanding money. I think the hubby would have to keep at least three or four different people from taking our bags to our taxi/bus/hotel/whatever whenever we left the airports/hotels. People looking to offer you a bit of service are everywhere there, and you have to be constantly on your guard/on your toes to keep them from doing so when you don't want it. At least in the U.S. the need to tip primarily stays in areas of luxury (hotel porters, room service, valet, meals at a restaurant, etc.). You can better plan and mentally prepare for it. The beggars are also a lot less aggressive here.

 

[Timepass]

Isn't that why there's a minimum wage? I'm not blaming the waiting staff, or even the employer 100%, it's down to the government to enforce it's own laws and protect their citizens.

If tipping is consider part of there wage (Waiter for example) They are not required to be paid the minamaul wage. Instead of being paid 5.15 and hour they are paid less then 3 bucks an hour.

Also in the US if you tip less than 10% you are taking money from the waiter. They loose about 10% bettween Taxes and the part that has to go to the people who bring out your food, the ones who bus the tables and so on.

If you are not willing to tip dont go eat out. Tipping is consider part of the the cost of the meal.

 

[CorvusCamenarum]

If tipping is consider part of there wage (Waiter for example) They are not required to be paid the minamaul wage. Instead of being paid 5.15 and hour they are paid less then 3 bucks an hour.

Also in the US if you tip less than 10% you are taking money from the waiter. They loose about 10% bettween Taxes and the part that has to go to the people who bring out your food, the ones who bus the tables and so on.

If you are not willing to tip dont go eat out. Tipping is consider part of the the cost of the meal.

That's not entirely accurate. If your employer can reasonably assume you will be tipped (i.e. waitstaff), then while they can indeed pay you less than minimum wage, if your wages + tips don't equal or exceed the minimum wage, then your employer is obligated to make up the difference.

 

[iBlue]

Isn't that why there's a minimum wage? I'm not blaming the waiting staff, or even the employer 100%, it's down to the government to enforce it's own laws and protect their citizens.

pffffft... let's not get started on our twisted government here. our system is screwed, but we are forced to deal with it. for everyone else just visiting... you know, "when in rome..."

 

[mpw]

If tipping is consider part of there wage (Waiter for example) They are not required to be paid the minamaul wage. Instead of being paid 5.15 and hour they are paid less then 3 bucks an hour.

Also in the US if you tip less than 10% you are taking money from the waiter. They loose about 10% bettween Taxes and the part that has to go to the people who bring out your food, the ones who bus the tables and so on.

If you are not willing to tip dont go eat out. Tipping is consider part of the the cost of the meal.

Like I said the US's 'system' is ***ked-up and the government need to address it not expect some customers to offer (what is basically some form of welfare) to foot the bill.

If I choose not to tip I'm taking nothing from anybody. If the waiter then gives up some of their wages to the colleagues, or to taxes then more fool them for accepting the system.

Florifee yeah it's the same in Tunisia. We were there on holiday and you'd walk down the street and these kids would come up and offer your flowers (which you could see them tear out of other peoples gardens and pots) they'd hassle you until you'd accept them then demand money. If you didn't pay older kids or adults would appear from the shadows and demand the money I never got to the point of finding out what happened if you still refused. Of course in refusing to tip them I guess I'm the thief in some people's eyes here.

 

[jadekitty24]

Of course in refusing to tip them I guess I'm the thief in some people's eyes here.

Naw, just really really cheap.

 

[Nanda Devi]

If you aren't reading you aren't growing - and therefore you can't win. If you can tell me who was "voted off the island" or "who can sing on american idol" and you haven't read a good book lately then seriously, what the hell? Why bother even getting out of bed?

I love this.... wisest statement I've heard in a long while! I'm so sick of hearing people talk about those idiotic reality TV shows and I take pride in the fact that I haven't the slightest idea what they're babbling about.

Rather than not having cable, just ditch that sh*t box altogether.... that's what I did about 7 years ago, and will never own one again. I get LOTS of reading done thanks to not having it, and speaking of frugailty, my significant other also works for the University so we get all our books free from the HUGE college library. It's great.

ND

 

[miloblithe]

That's not entirely accurate. If your employer can reasonably assume you will be tipped (i.e. waitstaff), then while they can indeed pay you less than minimum wage, if your wages + tips don't equal or exceed the minimum wage, then your employer is obligated to make up the difference.

Right, but I think the burden of proof is on the waiter and it's per pay period, not shift. I doubt many waiters have actually ever collected extra wages to make up for a shortfall in tips.

Oh, and to any of you who don't want to tip in restaurants. Fine. Just go on in, sit down, and tell the waiter when you order that you won't be tipping them. That's the only honest way to do what you want to do.

 

[TheMonarch]

About the tips, while it sucks that some make below minimum wage, I didn't hire them, nor do I feel it should be my job to have to give them anything. If I do, it when I felt that they deserved something extra.


I go out to eat, I'm expected to pay X amount, I pay X amount. I didn't steal anything. Only when I feel a tip is warranted is when I give one.

 

[yg17]

The US tipping system doesn't bother me. I think it encourages waiters to provide good service, because many people, self included, will tip very little, if anything at all, if their service sucks. When I get excellent service, I have no problem tipping more than 15%. If they just made an hourly wage with no tips, there would be no incentive for them to provide service

 

[slooksterPSV]

I'm cheap cause I won't pay over $1 for a notebook (text pad), I won't pay $2 for quality pens, CD-Rs (100 Pack) over $25.00 I won't buy. Hard drives that cost more than $80 i won't buy. I wouldn't buy a calculator for 50 cents. I buy 99 cent ear phones. I won't donate to MacRumors because they have advertisements already. Others.

 

[slooksterPSV]

The US tipping system doesn't bother me. I think it encourages waiters to provide good service, because many people, self included, will tip very little, if anything at all, if their service sucks. When I get excellent service, I have no problem tipping more than 15%. If they just made an hourly wage with no tips, there would be no incentive for them to provide service

OMG so true, if people are snobs we leave them like $3 even if the meal was $50. If they are great, heck we've left $20 before.

 

[mpw]

Right, but I think the burden of proof is on the waiter and it's per pay period, not shift. I doubt many waiters have actually ever collected extra wages to make up for a shortfall in tips...

How can the burden of proof be on the waiter to prove he didn't get tipped? If they haven't collected wages to make up the shortfall, why not? More fool them if they didn't bother, if they tried but weren't given it by their boss then they should hire a lawyer.

Either way why is it my problem?

...Oh, and to any of you who don't want to tip in restaurants. Fine. Just go on in, sit down, and tell the waiter when you order that you won't be tipping them. That's the only honest way to do what you want to do.

Again that's just stupid and what would be the point anyway, are they only going to do their job? I don't have a problem with that, it's all I asked them to do anyway. What do you do, let them know before the meal that you tip regardless of service? It would be pretty mean if you then held back your tip 'cause they didn't meet you expectations.

And please don't call me dishonest because I don't explain to waiters that my tip will be based on performance and not their assumptions or tax liabilties each time I order a burger.

 

[D0ct0rteeth]

The US tipping system doesn't bother me. I think it encourages waiters to provide good service, because many people, self included, will tip very little, if anything at all, if their service sucks. When I get excellent service, I have no problem tipping more than 15%. If they just made an hourly wage with no tips, there would be no incentive for them to provide service

I would agree as well. I have absoultely no problem with tipping either. (Was this thread about tipping?? )

Tipping is basically just commission - and I am a huge fan of paying people based on commission. I've been on commission since I was 10 years old if you count mowing lawns and delivering papers. The sooner someone can learn that the better you are at your job the more you will get paid the better off you are.

Unfortunately more and more people appear to have a disease called "Entitled-itis". I pay everyone I can based on commission - and even if you don't think you are paid on commission try not showing up to work and making your boss money for two weeks and see what happens

 

[nbs2]

I'm cheap enough that when I was backpacking Europe I decided that I was allowed to have 4 digestive cookies a day and all the free water I could get. Once every five days I was allowed to have an extra meal. If my given hostel was offering breakfast, then I could have that as well (but many cheap hostels don't really do that or have stale bread and jam). The only time I cheated was gelato in Florence. I could get food for free though, but that was hard to come by. I did also ask the girl in Rome if she was done with the bread from her Big Mac and took a couple pieces of bread from sidewalk tables after people were done eating. Man, that was fun...

As for tipping, my philosophy cam from Lee Iaccoca. If I remember right, his father would leave 2 cents and a note explaining that if the person wasn't going to provide adequate service, they are in the wrong industry. But, if the service is excellent and exceeds expectations, they get a nice commssion. Oh, I do make exceptions for "my places." If I go to a place I frequent, I tend to provide healthy/solid tips - but never exorbitant. I figure the service averages out, and I usually know which waiters I like and ask for them.

 

[miloblithe]

How can the burden of proof be on the waiter to prove he didn't get tipped? If they haven't collected wages to make up the shortfall, why not? More fool them if they didn't bother, if they tried but weren't given it by their boss then they should hire a lawyer.

Either way why is it my problem?


Again that's just stupid and what would be the point anyway, are they only going to do their job? I don't have a problem with that, it's all I asked them to do anyway. What do you do, let them know before the meal that you tip regardless of service? It would be pretty mean if you then held back your tip 'cause they didn't meet you expectations.

And please don't call me dishonest because I don't explain to waiters that my tip will be based on performance and not their assumptions or tax liabilties each time I order a burger.

Think this through. You're a waiter. You make $2 per hour and minumum wage is say $6. You work 20 hours total meaning that tips+wages legally must equal $120, because you're entitled to effectively make minumum wage. However, you only made $100 in tips and after tipping out (most waiters must share their tips with the bussers, bartenders, etc.) you only are left with $70, meaning that with you're wages you only made $110 for your 40 hours of work. You go to your boss and tell him/her what you made and ask for the restaurant to give you the $10 they owe you to make up the shortfall. What happens if your boss doesn't believe you? How do you prove what you made if you got most or many of your tips in cash? Your boss will have to trust your accounting, which I imagine isn't the case some of the time.

As for the rest of your argument, try to understand that the world is made up of different cultures. In the US, restaurants work because people tip. If you want to participate in a culture you play by its rules. If I ever come to Jersey, I'll read up and try to behave appropriately. Please do so when you come here.