How Apple Minimizes its Corporate Tax Burden

[Techmonster]

Want to force an end to this? Pass laws to restrict what an American corp can do to evade taxes. If you do any business at all with the US, you pay X amount of tax, or you lose the ability to reimport to the big market here. Oh. That's a tariff. Why yes, I think it is.

God bless Alexander Hamilton.

I can agree with you in spirit, corporate greed and all of that but I'm of the opinion that in the global economy, it is too easy for a corporation to simply move to another country to do business. In Apple's case that would be a LOT of high paying jobs. We are in competition with the rest of the world now. America is no longer an island. most of our labor can be duplicated in other places. Apple has over $70 billion in cash overseas. What incentive is there for them to bring that home? The thousands of workers they employ here generate the greatest tax revenue anyway. Lose that and you can't tax them enough as a corporation to make up for it. Our prosperity comes from private sector jobs. Yeah, half of you will call me a right wing nut for saying it. Bt it's true. I do business with friends overseas. They are happy when the US makes it harder to do business here. More for them. Less for us. It's time to understand that there are people willing to do yours and my job for a lot less money. Have a nice day

 

[lilo777]

The rich investors pay WAAAAAAAY more money in taxes (percentage-wise) than the working people and do not burden healthcare or anything. They aren't ripping anyone off but each other.

That's a standard republican argument but let's look at it closely. You say rich people "do not burden healthcare or anything". It seemingly makes sense but it does not. For an investor/company owner to make money they need:

* Our fleet to protect oil passages. Regular fold does not care about it. At most he needs his 50 gallons per months and if he can't buy that he can use a bike. Th erich people, on the other hand do need all those aircrafts, ships and trucks going fast or they will not make their profits.
* Healthcare. How do I care if the society as a whole is healthy or not? I don't (well from the money perspective - I don't). The rich people need those who they exploit to be healthy - or at least capable to work.
* Education. Same thing here. I do not care if our education system is good or not. I can learn myself. The rich people? They need educated workforce and therefore they need to pay for it.
* The roads. Do I care about those? ind of, but not that much. My personal income does not depend on them. Rich people? They have to have those trucks going or there will not be any business/profits. They have to pay the lion share for road maintenance then.
* The legal system. Do I care if there is an order or the riots? Somewhat. Once again, my income does not really depend on this. Rich people? They have to care. If people are afraid to go to the stores - no profits for them.

However you look, the rich must pay way more than poor - even percentage wise.

 

[thetexan]

Businesses do not pay taxes, ever.

The costs are merely added to the prices of goods and services.

Instead, we should be looking at Apple's payroll. How many hundreds of millions of dollars do their employees get paid?

THEY pay taxes.

Right on.

In a free economy all taxes corporations pay are essentially hidden taxes on people.

In the United States people seem to go crazy over their income tax percentage, but nobody pays attention to the myriad of hidden taxes we all pay every single day. A big hidden tax is gas. If we didn't pay taxes on gas we'd see the price drop $0.50 per gallon right away.

Corporations have a profit goal, as they should. Each of us actually pay corporate taxes every time we buy a product or service in the form of higher prices.

 

[FloatingBones]

I'm sorry I couldn't stop laughing, the Sarbanes–Oxley Act just flew 100 feet over everyone's head. Most will have no clue what you're talking about. I on the other hand know exactly what you're talking about, and commend you for bringing up SOX on Macrumors. By the way, I completely agree with you.

Thanks.

I did check: the first google hit on SOX was the right one.

Fewer than one in a hundred has any idea about the byzantine requirements that are placed on major corporations these days. Maybe people participating in this thread should include a disclaimer if they have never ever heard of SOX.

 

[reedmartin]

This thread has become a bizarre window into class warfare.

 

[manu chao]

That about sums it up...I agree completely. It's amusing to see the number of Apple apologists defending Apple and criticizing the government for instituting "corrupt" laws. Do you people really think the government purposefully put in loop holes so they could get screwed out of billions of dollars in income?!?!

The 'government' of Reno definitely put its loopholes in place to screw other state/cities out of billions of dollars.

 

[roofz]

This post, and the barrage of users posting on here (acting like they know a thing or two about corporate taxes) makes me happy that I am studying accounting and auditing. Some day a company like apple will pay me big money to help them keep their hard earned money away from government pocketbooks.

 

[bdavis89]

it is difficult for the United States to single-handedly require Apple to book more of its revenue in its home country, which currently has the highest corporate tax rates in the world when federal and average state rates are included.

This is the problem. No corporation in their right mind prefers to book all their revenue in the US. While I'm not supportive of avoided taxes via loopholes, etc, the US isn't helping itself with the highest taxes.

 

[roofz]

I'm sorry I couldn't stop laughing, the Sarbanes–Oxley Act just flew 100 feet over everyone's head. Most will have no clue what you're talking about. I on the other hand know exactly what you're talking about, and commend you for bringing up SOX on Macrumors. By the way, I completely agree with you.

Another +1 for bringing introducing Macrumors to Sarbanes. Cheers from a (fellow?) auditor

 

[carlgo]

Ok, Apple, use this as a stage to make a public plea for a simple and fair tax code and also start up some US production. You will make big points.

Or just ignore, deny, make excuses, etc.

 

[bdavis89]

LOL at all of you trying to brag about being accounting majors. Accounting is a great way to start out, do your two years of public accounting, but if you're smart you'll then get your MBA or go to Law School. That's where the real money is.

 

[faroZ06]

Apple wouldn't be taken advantage of, they'd be paying what they should be paying, that kind of mentality is why Greece is where they are today.

And see the loser mentality seeps through again, if you pay for a song your getting what you paid for. Yet you seem to think your entitled to it for free because you currently have the internet. Please go to a gas station or grocery store and grab what you feel entitled to the when the owner asks you to pay for it, tell him your being taken advantage of and you will not pay for it, but you will be leaving with what you took, see how that works out for you. Again this mindset is why Greece is in shambles, doctors making 1+mil a year and paying tax as if they make €12,000. Then everone has a stupid look on there face when they cant seem to figure why the country has negative zero money. Its self-inflicted stupidity.

Almost every company is using the loopholes. Apple has a choice: use it, or go out of business. It's not the government's fault entirely, but they are indirectly causing the problem.

So blame all of the cheating companies and the government as a collective for Apple choosing to stay in business and use tax loopholes.

 

[AppBot]

Deadbeat Tax Dodger is still a dirt bag.

Why is it so hard for Apple to pay it's fair share?
While the 99% rest of US can't hire an army of tax lawyers and accountants to play the 3-card-monty game hiding our income.
We PAY and PAY and PAY full tax, with even some states demanding we pay sales tax on products bought on-line from Apple.

With nearly $40 billion in profits, a few million for local schools, roads, clinics, etc. hardly means much to Fruit, Inc. but it literally could be the difference of life or death to the disadvantaged.

Apple's come a long way from when Steve Jobs got free dinners at the Buddhist temple in his university years.

Unfortunately I think Apple gone a long way in the wrong direction, and completely forgotten that it IS the "Little People" of the world that have built up its techno-empire.

After all, those record breaking profits are created by US - the people! The customers who line-up or log-on and gladly hand over millions in cash to get shiny new white (or black) Apple toys.

Occupy Apple!
Maybe if their stock price fell as fast as a Foxconn Building Jumper they would wake up and remember that corporate responsibility means more than squeezing a few more silver coins out of the pockets of the customers.

 

[faroZ06]

17%. If you make a million, I want $170,000. You make $1, I want $0.17. That is fair

No, it can't be linear. There need to be tax tiers to provide more opportunity to everyone. The current ones just need to be less steep.

----------

Why is it so hard for Apple to pay it's fair share?
While the 99% rest of US can't hire an army of tax lawyers and accountants to play the 3-card-monty game hiding our income.
We PAY and PAY and PAY full tax, with even some states demanding we pay sales tax on products bought on-line from Apple.

With nearly $40 billion in profits, a few million for local schools, roads, clinics, etc. hardly means much to Fruit, Inc. but it literally could be the difference of life or death to the disadvantaged.

Apple's come a long way from when Steve Jobs got free dinners at the Buddhist temple in his university years.

Unfortunately I think Apple gone a long way in the wrong direction, and completely forgotten that it IS the "Little People" of the world that have built up its techno-empire.

After all, those record breaking profits are created by US - the people! The customers who line-up or log-on and gladly hand over millions in cash to get shiny new white (or black) Apple toys.

Occupy Apple!
Maybe if their stock price fell as fast as a Foxconn Building Jumper they would wake up and remember that corporate responsibility means more than squeezing a few more silver coins out of the pockets of the customers.

Please don't tell me you're part of the Occupy movement. That is the greediest public organization ever.

 

[JohnDoe98]

The quality of this thread has been very high, thank you to all the participants!

 

[faroZ06]

That's a standard republican argument but let's look at it closely. You say rich people "do not burden healthcare or anything". It seemingly makes sense but it does not. For an investor/company owner to make money they need:

* Our fleet to protect oil passages. Regular fold does not care about it. At most he needs his 50 gallons per months and if he can't buy that he can use a bike. Th erich people, on the other hand do need all those aircrafts, ships and trucks going fast or they will not make their profits.
* Healthcare. How do I care if the society as a whole is healthy or not? I don't (well from the money perspective - I don't). The rich people need those who they exploit to be healthy - or at least capable to work.
* Education. Same thing here. I do not care if our education system is good or not. I can learn myself. The rich people? They need educated workforce and therefore they need to pay for it.
* The roads. Do I care about those? ind of, but not that much. My personal income does not depend on them. Rich people? They have to have those trucks going or there will not be any business/profits. They have to pay the lion share for road maintenance then.
* The legal system. Do I care if there is an order or the riots? Somewhat. Once again, my income does not really depend on this. Rich people? They have to care. If people are afraid to go to the stores - no profits for them.

However you look, the rich must pay way more than poor - even percentage wise.

I know they should. Just not as much as they do now. It encourages cheating to have it be so steep.

But none of this is relevant to what I said. All I said is that they do not burden healthcare or other public services. They do not use the healthcare system at all and draw no money from it. They do not use the public busses, schools, shelters, etc. And the company as a whole is the one that uses the legal system a lot, not the investors.

But I know that the public services are necessary for the rich. It "invests" in would-be-farmers-or-dead and makes them part of the American market system. Oh, and the rich were once poor.

Anyway, my original point was that people are too hard on them. The investors and companies are not ripping people off in this way. We'd be much worse without them than with them. Those Occupy retards complain about companies firing people but want to close the businesses as a remedy. They're only ripping people off when they sell products that break (like my video card, thanks to NVIDIA).

 

[JohnDoe98]

1. Warranty coverage is not free to consumers, it's calculated in the price of the good sold. You want extended coverage, pay for it. If Apple, or any company, was forced to offer a longer warranty, the price of the item would go up. Some of us prefer to "self insure," because the odds of something going wrong are ,statistically, slim, and we'd rather take our chance and pay a lower price.

The topic of what to do with the stockpile of cash generated from profits often comes up. I think one could say extending warranty coverage for free would be taking lower margins as a way invest in furure sales due to higher customer satisfaction and increased repeat purchases.

 

[isdmd10]

Why is it so hard for Apple to pay it's fair share?
While the 99% rest of US can't hire an army of tax lawyers and accountants to play the 3-card-monty game hiding our income.
We PAY and PAY and PAY full tax, with even some states demanding we pay sales tax on products bought on-line from Apple.

With nearly $40 billion in profits, a few million for local schools, roads, clinics, etc. hardly means much to Fruit, Inc. but it literally could be the difference of life or death to the disadvantaged.

Apple's come a long way from when Steve Jobs got free dinners at the Buddhist temple in his university years.

Unfortunately I think Apple gone a long way in the wrong direction, and completely forgotten that it IS the "Little People" of the world that have built up its techno-empire.

After all, those record breaking profits are created by US - the people! The customers who line-up or log-on and gladly hand over millions in cash to get shiny new white (or black) Apple toys.

Occupy Apple!
Maybe if their stock price fell as fast as a Foxconn Building Jumper they would wake up and remember that corporate responsibility means more than squeezing a few more silver coins out of the pockets of the customers.

This is the stupidest, most ignorant thing I've read on this thread yet.

 

[faroZ06]

This is the stupidest, most ignorant thing I've read on this thread yet.

Thank you! I recommend you join the Occupy Occupy Wall St Facebook group (just kidding, but it does really exist)

How about we put all of the Occupy socialists in their own country, start them off with some industrial equipment and stuff, and see how they like it. Hey, no companies, we won't get laid off! Problem solved!

 

[JohnDoe98]

Hate the game, not the player.

I think your local meth dealer would agree.

 

[isdmd10]

Thank you! I recommend you join the Occupy Occupy Wall St Facebook group (just kidding, but it does really exist)

How about we put all of the Occupy socialists in their own country, start them off with some industrial equipment and stuff, and see how they like it. Hey, no companies, we won't get laid off! Problem solved!

Already on it.

http://m.wikitravel.org/en/North_Korea

 

[koobcamuk]

Perfectly legal, but this is the kind of behaviour that should get alot of attention in order to bring badwill to the companies doing it.

Agreed.

Legal ≠ moral

 

[faroZ06]

I think your local meth dealer would agree.

Meth is illegal; therefor, he is cheating the "game".

 

[rdlink]

You are the ignorant one. nobody is saying it's illegal. People say it's immoral. And no one should be surprised if people start hating Apple for their behavior. Why should not they?

Nothing is immoral about it. Immoral would be purposefully destroying the property of others. Immoral is mandatory wealth re-distribution (aka, taking) for personal glorification and gain.

And even if one were to buy your argument that using the immoral and flawed tax system's rules against it could somehow be immoral, what makes paying taxes in the US more moral than paying taxes in Ireland?

 

[faroZ06]

Nothing is immoral about it. Immoral would be purposefully destroying the property of others. Immoral is mandatory wealth re-distribution (aka, taking) for personal glorification and gain.

And even if one were to buy your argument that using the immoral and flawed tax system's rules against it could somehow be immoral, what makes paying taxes in the US more moral than paying taxes in Ireland?

But they're paying less taxes in Ireland than they would in the US. Then again, some US tax money increases violence in the Middle East.