How Apple Music's Liking System Works to Customize 'For You' Recommendations

[luispedromota]

Sorry for the very long post...

Disclaimer: I'm an Apple (Mac, iPhone, iPad, Apple Watch) user and enthusiast. I'm also a Spotify user since the service has started in Portugal.

Since the day Apple Music was announced that I've been dreaming of replacing my Spotify subscription with a Apple Music one. Why? Because I thought that Apple would be able to make a better music streaming service, a better UI, an having a more integrated approach to my music listening between my music library and the streaming service.

After a couple of days of playing with Apple Music (in my Mac Pro, iPad, iPhone and also in a Windows PC), what I saw was:

1. A hammered on interface of the streaming service into the iTunes / Music interface. The new iTunes / Music is confusing, bloated, slow and unresponsive.
2. The New section seams more like a garbage can where everything that could not fit elsewhere was throw over there. It is the more useful section where you can find really interesting things but there's to many different and unorganized things over there...
3. The For You section is stupid. I didn't like Hip-Pop, Pop or R'n'B in the initial config but it keeps making me suggestions from those music styles. There was a couple more meaningful suggestions after I discovered what the heart button was for, but the silly suggestions remain there.
4. Radio is... well, radio.
5. The Connect section should have been named "The Return of Ping" (Apple, please learn with your mistakes).
6. There are to many steps to had a song or an album to a playlist. Why do I have to add streaming songs to my library to be able to add them to a playlist?
7. Apple Music is slow. Very slow. The interface is slow, the music start is slow (much slower than Spotify).
8. I've tried to recreate some of the playlists I have in Spotify. Somewhere from 20 to 30% of the bands I like and have in Spotify didn't show in Apple Music. Perhaps it's only lack of luck...
9. There many things wrong in the Apple library...

An example:
I've searched for a band named Ahab (an obscure doom metal german band). On the top results, iTunes shown me "Ahab - Artist". I clicked. The artist page show me a Biography on the right stating "German funeral doom trio Ahab was founded in the town of...". Similar Artists: Evoke, Funeral, son on. Influences: Paradise Lost, Candlemass.
OK. I'm in the right page. Didn't recognized any of the CD covers but, anyway... Osiris EP was the latest release. Didn't ear it earlier. A new EP? OK, let's listen. Click. Four songs of electronica and dubstep... Wrong band. Back click to Artist page. Top Albums. "Beautiful Hell". Don't know that either. Click. Country music. "Wits End". Click. Singer/Songwriter. Back. "Warrior Sound". Click. Electronica. "Aura Borealis". Click. Dance.
Give up...

....

I'm not a huge fan of the Spotify interface, although I think it's much better now than Apple Music. I know a couple of streaming services (I've tried all those available in Portugal) and none have THE right interface. There's good and bad in everyone. But strictly comparing Apple Music to Spotify, Spotify is better organized, much quicker, gives me great suggestions, it's much easier to search for new music, have great playlists...

OK... Apple Music service is just starting and will evolve and get better over the time. I agree. But Apple is coming to the streaming business after a 3500 million purchase one year ago. One year is a long long time and the final product should have been much better.

In my opinion, apart from the family plan (only if everyone in home have iPhones/iPads), Spotify is, at the moment, much better than Apple Music.

 

[Tech198]

so, Apple music is trying to learn Connect seems very much like Ping, only does more crap.

 

[AleXXXa]

I guess I'll need all three months and most likely even more time to tailor FOR YOU into really working for me.

I mostly listen to classical music and only picked classical composers and artists when I first set up FOR YOU. But Apple Music is not recommending a single classical music album for me. I guess I am starting from scratch...

Good luck with that, you are in the minority here, not many people listen to classical.
I listen to classical music too, and some jazz and progressive rock and the music apple recommends me is mostly crap. Instead of Miles Davis or Pink Floyd or Transatlantic, Apple gives me U2, DJ whatever or hiphop lol.

 

[SimonTheSoundMa]

So, do they also use years of scrobbled data they have been collecting?

 

[postpc]

Spotify: "Reports of my death have been greatly exaggerated"

More seriously, I'll stick to my Spotify Premium subscription, its a lot more stable for the time being, thats not to say Apple Music is bad, I like the overall design (I do dig the bubbles ) but I've got a soft spot for the underdog. With the pile of cash they're sitting on they can keep operating this thing for centuries without profits taking a hit, its not exactly eye level competition.
People say it integrates into the Apple eco system, I fail to see how this matters. Spotify keeps me synced across all my devices, not sure why I would need more integration. I don't have an Apple Watch yet, but I'm sure a Spotify app is underway.

Kudos to Apple for fixing my car interface tho, I've been having all sorts of issues with my Iphone connected to my Hyundai i20, at least thats been taken care of in 8.4.

 

[Scrump]

All this talk of Loving and Rating tracks has helped me work out how I can to use this on iOS the way I want. I'm not into this streaming/temporary renting of music idea. I have my own large library of music that I can curate my own playlists from -and I enjoy spending time doing that, including rating tracks.

So now that I've learned about Loving tracks in my library I can use that while I'm out and about, to Love from the lock screen (Yes!! My wish was for rating, but loving will have to do). I'll have a smart playlist of 'loved but not rated'. Loving will add to that list, then I'll rate as I listen back to my loved tracks list (I know, I'll have to sync as I'm not using iCloud music), but rating later (or unloving) will move them out or into other smart lists that take other things like genre and date added or whatever into account.

Not 'revolutionary', but gives me something I didn't have before: loving from the lock screen makes me happy.

edit: spacing

 

[Leo90]

Despite being a bit buggy, I am really enjoying Apple Music overall. I can find albums I was waiting years for Spotify to make them available. I'm probably not coming back to Spotify.

 

[randomtask]

Loving Apple Music so far, although it has only been an hour. Barring any major screw ups my spotify account will be gone. I'm not getting the hate for the UI- I think it's pretty logical and straightforward.

This is the first apple product in several years that has impressed me (last was the haswell macbook airs!)

 

[attila]

I suppose they can't just copy Spotify, but a simple Like and Dislike button would have been more concise.

Also, I wish I could customise the tab bar like I used to. I don't care about Connect or whatever it's called, but I want Artits, Albums, and Genres in the tab bar.

 

[HenryDJP]

HA! Yes, I am clearly the one who needs to learn about business. LOL.

Thank you for proving my point, especially since you had nothing of substance to post to prove me wrong. Yeah, every big company should just wake up and buy everything because they can.

 

[HenryDJP]

Spotify: "Reports of my death have been greatly exaggerated"

More seriously, I'll stick to my Spotify Premium subscription, its a lot more stable for the time being, thats not to say Apple Music is bad, I like the overall design (I do dig the bubbles ) but I've got a soft spot for the underdog. With the pile of cash they're sitting on they can keep operating this thing for centuries without profits taking a hit, its not exactly eye level competition.
People say it integrates into the Apple eco system, I fail to see how this matters. Spotify keeps me synced across all my devices, not sure why I would need more integration. I don't have an Apple Watch yet, but I'm sure a Spotify app is underway.

Kudos to Apple for fixing my car interface tho, I've been having all sorts of issues with my Iphone connected to my Hyundai i20, at least thats been taken care of in 8.4.

That's an interesting reason for staying. But tell me sir, how is Spotify the "underdog" when Music was just released to the public a few days ago and Spotify has been open for business for years with a set fan base?

 

[HenryDJP]

Loving Apple Music so far, although it has only been an hour. Barring any major screw ups my spotify account will be gone. I'm not getting the hate for the UI- I think it's pretty logical and straightforward.

This is the first apple product in several years that has impressed me (last was the haswell macbook airs!)

While there are a few bugs in the system, some people here are just being nitpicky. For example someone here said for the life of them they couldn't understand why a HEART would be used to LIKE something. Seriously??? That's common sense.

Had this been a Windows app from Microsoft, hardly anyone would complain. Windows has been the most complicated OS over the years and highly frustrates people, but these same people will stay up night after night and figure stuff out and get things working, because they like to feel smart and tweak things.

Then when it's Apple's turn to make something complex some people here act like they need their hand held. First people say Apple dumbs down stuff so much it's just too simple and they feel Apple treats their customers like their overly stupid. Now people seem to want Apple to treat them like their stupid.

I just wish people would give it a fair chance first. Music hasn't even been out for a full week and people expect it to be 100% perfect, just because it's from Apple. Apple is made up of humans, not robots. No doubt there will be software updates and possible rearrangement of the UI.

 

[baryon]

I don't really know, Spotify is free, independent of which country you're in (I think?) and on-demand and it gives pretty good suggestions, and it didn't take me long to figure out what it does. This whole Apple Music, Apple Radio, Beats 1 Radio, iTunes Match, whatever thing just seems too complicated. Also the fact that you have to pay to do ANY of it is dumb. How is this ever going to compete with things like Spotify, which is totally free if you ise the add-supported mode?

 

[HenryDJP]

deleted post.

 

[OllyW]

While there are a few bugs in the system, some people here are just being nitpicky.

Quite a few of our members have had their iTunes libraries severely corrupted by those "few bugs in the system" through no fault of their own, so I wouldn't dismiss their complaints as being "nitpicky". In fact most of them have been very patient and have provided valuable information through their forum posts which could help other MR members avoid the inconvenience they have suffered until can Apple hopefully come up with a fix.

 

[HenryDJP]

Quite a few of our members have had their iTunes libraries severely corrupted by those "few bugs in the system" through no fault of their own, so I wouldn't dismiss their complaints as being "nitpicky". In fact most of them have been very patient and have provided valuable information through their forum posts which could help other MR members avoid the inconvenience they have suffered until can Apple hopefully come up with a fix.

I'm not denying that people are having problems. That's why I said upfront that the system has bugs. I've experienced this on my own as well. I'm referring to some feeling the HEART icon should be a Thumbs Up instead because it's easier to understand. I understood what it meant from the beginning. That's what I mean by nitpicky.

 

[OllyW]

I'm not denying that people are having problems. That's why I said upfront that the system has bugs. I've experienced this on my own as well. I'm referring to some feeling the HEART icon should be a Thumbs Up instead because it's easier to understand. I understood what it meant from the beginning. That's what I mean by nitpicky.

I'll agree with you that those people are being nitpicky.

 

[doc james]

Apple Music - "Do you like Biffy Clyro, Katherine Jenkins and Whitney Houston?"

Me - "No thank you Apple" delete, delete, delete.

Apple Music - "Do you like Biffy Clyro, Katherine Jenkins and Whitney Houston?"

Me - "Must have done something wrong, could have sworn I clicked no" DELETE DELETE DELETE

Apple Music - "Do you like Biffy Clyro, Katherine Jenkins and Whitney Houston?"

Me - "ARGHHH!" DELETE DELETE DELETE

Apple Music - "Do you like Biffy Clyro, Katherine Jenkins and Whitney Houston?"

Me - *sounds of smashing iPhone*

What IS it with those questions?! I assumed they were unique to me. Is Apple's entire algorithm based on the 6 (? - my maths is poor) possible answers?

 

[MacrumoursUser]

Can someone please explain me why many songs in many albums are greyed out and can't be stream, played, downloaded? Some albums have as many as 10 songs unavailable. Last R.E.M. albums has half of the songs greyed out.

 

[cmaier]

I have to say: this is the first time I'm confused by using a Apple product and needed to search for a guide on how to use Apple Music or the new music app but I have still some open questions:

• Where are the "Hearts" stored? I updated to 8.4, used Apple Music and restored my iPhone which I haven't done since iOS7 (wanted a "clean install" and clean up my app library) but now the songs I hearted are not hearted anymore? Isn't this information synced to with iCloud?
• Is there a way to see a list of hearted songs? This would be super useful. My workaround is a playlist called "iLike" and put all songs in it I hearted ... which is somewhat cumbersome.
  
• When a song is playing form a curated playlist which I like and I want to quickly switch to the artist or the album, is there a way by tabing something or do I have to search for it?

Maybe someone can answer these questions. Thank you.

This is another example of multiple conflicting paradigms in the implementation of Apple music. You can still rate songs with 1-5 stars, and then there are hearts. What does it mean if a song has 1 star but I heart it? It seems that hearts are only used to tune the For You algorithm, so Apple doesn't pay much attention to preserving their state across devices and such - as long as the iCloud backend has taken the information and tweaked the For You parameters associated with your accout they have served their purpose. If you want to rate songs for your own benefit, apparently you are still supposed to use star ratings.

But who knows - the whole thing is a mess. ... buttons that pop up different walls of text menus depending on where on the screen they are, multiple places to play/pause on the same screen, etc.

 

[sambaman1]

Curation in Apple Music seems to be almost 100% american-centric. So, except for "My Music", ALL tabs in Apple Music can be useless to many people. That does NOT seem to bode well for reaching 100 countries/cultures as planned.

For example: Brazilian music is almost as rich and diverse as American music (in quality and numbers of songs) and much appreciated even by many Americans (Will.i.am, David Byrne, etc). I live in the USA and, although 80% of "My Music" is Brazilian and rated 5-stars, not a single Brazilian song or genre appears in "For You", "New", and almost all attempts to "Start Station" give error ("Unable to start station - A station cannot be started with this song"). This even after I manually "hearted" (♥) all my 5-star (☆☆☆☆☆) songs.

 

[kds1]

Apple Music's main draw is its focus on curation and its ability to learn about your music preferences to provide recommendations that suit your tastes. Apple's new Music app focuses heavily on content discovery, with an entire "For You" section dedicated to recommendations.

According to Apple, its music experts "handpick songs, artists, and albums based on what you listen to and like," and this content is what populates the "For You" section. Apple's explained that "For You" recommendations get better over time based on "whether you love a song or not," but the company hasn't explicitly spelled out how to best use likes and listens to better tailor Apple Music to your tastes.

To clear up confusion on how recommendations work, The Loop's Jim Dalrymple has spoken directly with Apple to get some insight on how the "Like" feature in Apple Music works to affect recommendations, and he's penned a useful guide on liking from the information he obtained.

Any song played from Beats 1 radio, a default radio station, a curated playlist, or from a search can be liked by expanding the miniplayer and tapping the heart icon. You can essentially heart anything that's playing via Apple Music.

As Dalrymple explains, tapping the heart button on a song you like influences the content that's then displayed in the "For You" section of Apple Music. As more content is liked, the feature gets a better idea of each individual user's tastes, and is able to offer up a more tailored selection of music. Music that's added to a library and music that's played in full also affects "For You."Radio stations created from individual songs, done by tapping on the hamburger button when any song is playing and choosing "Start Station," work a bit differently. Instead of displaying a heart, these playlists display a star. Tapping the star allows you to choose "Play More Like This" or "Play Less Like This" to tune a radio station to your particular tastes at that time without affecting overall "For You" recommendations.

Pressing on any album or playlist recommendation in "For You" gives you an option to customize the section even more, by choosing "I Don't Like This Suggestion." It appears that this customization option is limited to iOS devices for the time being, as Apple Music on Mac doesn't offer this menu.

Apple Music's ability to offer up intensively tailored song recommendations over time may be one of the reasons why Apple insisted on giving users a three month trial to experience the service. Regularly liking songs and culling the "For You" section of recommendations that aren't suitable should vastly change the quality of suggestions over the course of the next few months.

Article Link: How Apple Music's Liking System Works to Customize 'For You' Recommendations

I don't have "I don't like this suggestion" on my iPad Mini. Isn't that an iOS device? What the hell?

 

[kds1]

Curation in Apple Music seems to be almost 100% american-centric. So, except for "My Music", ALL tabs in Apple Music can be useless to many people. That does NOT seem to bode well for reaching 100 countries/cultures as planned.

For example: Brazilian music is almost as rich and diverse as American music (in quality and numbers of songs) and much appreciated even by many Americans (Will.i.am, David Byrne, etc). I live in the USA and, although 80% of "My Music" is Brazilian and rated 5-stars, not a single Brazilian song or genre appears in "For You", "New", and almost all attempts to "Start Station" give error ("Unable to start station - A station cannot be started with this song"). This even after I manually "hearted" (♥) all my 5-star (☆☆☆☆☆) songs.

I so agree with you! I love Bossa Nova and I've found it SO diffcult to get "For You" to reccomend anything. "For You" bubbles SUCK. The bubbles worked great for me in Beats, but in Apple Music, it sucks. I got so frustrated gave up. Part of the problem is sometimes it's categorized as Latin, sometimes Brazilian, and sometimes World. It's all over the place.

 

[topmounter]

Well, there are limits to what algorithms can do. If you want things perfect, hire someone to literally hand pick music that you like.
What "For You" comes up for me with is pretty good and much better than any other services I have used. And I have used a few. All around Apple Music is much better. There are things that it does worse than others, but if I'm to have a single service like this, it's certainly Apply Music.

By the way, continuing "2 kinds of IDs" thing, I have noticed couple tracks that don't show up in my Loved Smart Playlist. Turns out, if I sort by Loved in My Music, they appear with non-Loved ones, but with Loved icon set. Really bizarre. Just deleted and re-added them and "Loved". Fine now. These bugs are surely annoying...

"Perfect" was not and would not be my request, just maybe "competitive" with other services or even just "interesting" or "not frustrating". I get the impression that the primary design goal was to be "different" when compared to Spotify, et al so as not to be labeled as just another "me too" service. That being said, I've only spent time with AM in iTunes 12.2, so maybe they spent all their time nailing the IOS app and will get to the iTunes implementation in a future update.

 

[odedia]

I have to admit: I really really like this service. It's the first time I feel that Apple got cloud services right. I hated the iCloud Photo Library solution (bugs, crashes, lost pictures), I can't get a lot of services they have, I think 5gb free is a joke.

But Apple Music feels like a complete product. I don't remember when was the last time I had so much music in the background all day long. The curated playlists WORK. I joked about it myself before the service was released, but they are really useful and feel my style. I never used playlists, was more of a shuffle kind of guy. But this makes me want to hear the playlist in order.

And the most important thing: the music selection is way better than anything out there. I had Amazon Music before, and it's a joke in comparison. I don't know about spotify, but I live in Israel and Apple Music has pretty much any Israeli song since the beginning of time. I still didn't manage to find something that's not there. It was a real surprise for me.