How can it have such a poor performance?

nando87

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Jun 25, 2014
723
277
Hello to everyone.

I've just bought my first mac, a MacBook Pro Retina 13'' i5 2,4ghz 16gb ram 256gb ssd. I am an advanced pc user-gamer and everything by the way...

I wanted to go into the whole apple experience since I'm a long term iphone and ipad user and I was thinking about the "continuity" thing for this fall.

I was impatient, and when it arrives... what a tremendous dissapointment... I wasn't looking for gaming on this laptop, but it lags on its own os' UI!! This is incredible!!

If I resize the App Store manually clicking on the right down corner and moving the mouse, it's like a netbook running a full HD screen without graphic card drivers!! it's horrible. Just opening Pages and doing the same operation, it is not as bad but it looks like less than 12 fps! even the apple logo, when the macbook starts and moves upward so you can enter your password is laggy, no more than 7 fps or so. Not to mention when I installed Photoshop and was trying to zoom and move a 3mpx photo or resizing the program window...

After realizing this, I went to my local store. I tried the 15'' with gt750, full spec. The lag still exists, it is not as bad but it is not enough at all either.

I don't want to offend anyone but seriously, if this is normal, how could you buy this and not feel cheated? It's shameful. Right now I'm using a fx8320 16gb ddr3 hd5850 desktop with win 8.1 and it feels like 10 evolution years faster than the macbook I bought.

I'm returning it, and I will wait until new GPUs or yosemite are released, to see if they can fix this... But right now, I feel, again, sadly very dissapointed. My main goals were engineering programs through bootcamp and light everyday use and photoshop under mac osx, sadly I'll have to pass at least for now.
 
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vtgeek

macrumors member
Sep 21, 2012
41
15
Just did the same test here. I'd say the App Store is poorly written. My machine, Late 13 2.6, 8GB, 512GB behaves just like yours. I spend 10+ hours a day on this thing and the last thing I would say about this machine is that its laggy. However with your test it most certainly is laggy.

I guess if I were testing QA at apple probably the thing that people do not do is resize the app store window.

This machine is the most solid machine I've had going back to the powerbook 520c.
 

nando87

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Jun 25, 2014
723
277
Just did the same test here. I'd say the App Store is poorly written. My machine, Late 13 2.6, 8GB, 512GB behaves just like yours. I spend 10+ hours a day on this thing and the last thing I would say about this machine is that its laggy. However with your test it most certainly is laggy.

I guess if I were testing QA at apple probably the thing that people do not do is resize the app store window.

This machine is the most solid machine I've had going back to the powerbook 520c.
Well the lag concept has to be clarified. I meant graphic lag. The processor, ssd read and write... core tasks and so on are impeccable, but the graphic interface per se is hideous. As I said, it's my firs mac so I wasn't used to this kind of behaviour, and I can't live with it, not for this kind of money, which is quite serious.
 

Yakibomb

macrumors 6502
May 13, 2014
413
60
Cape Town
One thing I did notice with my old 2009 MBP was that as time progressed the animations did begin to lag with later OS's such as Mountain Lion ( it did get a bit better with Mavericks). But my 15" rMBP runs perfectly smoothly.

But I can agree the App Store is a poorly written app. No matter what mac I use ( fully spec'ed iMac or baseline Macbook air) it lags when you resize the window. But I do agree I hardly ever resize the window
 

nando87

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Jun 25, 2014
723
277
One thing I did notice with my old 2009 MBP was that as time progressed the animations did begin to lag with later OS's such as Mountain Lion ( it did get a bit better with Mavericks). But my 15" rMBP runs perfectly smoothly.

But I can agree the App Store is a poorly written app. No matter what mac I use ( fully spec'ed iMac or baseline Macbook air) it lags when you resize the window. But I do agree I hardly ever resize the window
I respect your decision guys, seriously, and I love the build quality and Apple in general. But the fact you don't use to resize the window does not make a 1700 euros laptop not being able to manage its own operative system (resizing windows, for example) properly less embarrassing. I mean, come on, the graphic performance perception of the UI is like some 300 euros or less windows laptop, and this kind of money is razer or alienware level!! You should demand a better performance, if we buy laggy laptops for this kind of money apple will never work on it, why should they? This is like buying an iphone 5s that goes like a samsung galaxy S1, I don't think anyone would be happy just because they don't use heavy apps.
 
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T5BRICK

macrumors G3
Aug 3, 2006
8,102
2,095
Oregon
But the fact you don't use to resize the window does not make a 1700 euros laptop not being able to manage its own operative system (resizing windows, for example) properly less embarrassing. I mean, come one, the graphic performance perception of the UI is like some 300 euros or less windows laptop, and this kind of money is razer or alienware level!! You should demand a better performance, if we buy laggy laptops for this kind of money apple will never work on it, why should they?
You're focusing on one single problem(that is potentially isolated to a single program). I mean, if you use your laptop to resize windows for 8 hours a day, I'd understand how this would be an issue. But you don't. Nobody does.

You state right in your first post that you're a gamer. I can tell you right now that this laptop isn't designed for you. Are you having problems with UI lag in other aspects of the operating system?
 

53kyle

macrumors 65816
Mar 27, 2012
1,278
95
Sebastopol, CA
Maybe you should have waited until the mac app store loaded. On my cMBP, I had the same exact lag and once it fully loaded it was almost smooth.
 

Yakibomb

macrumors 6502
May 13, 2014
413
60
Cape Town
I respect your decision guys, seriously, and I love the build quality and Apple in general. But the fact you don't use to resize the window does not make a 1700 euros laptop not being able to manage its own operative system (resizing windows, for example) properly less embarrassing. I mean, come one, the graphic performance perception of the UI is like some 300 euros or less windows laptop, and this kind of money is razer or alienware level!! You should demand a better performance, if we buy laggy laptops for this kind of money apple will never work on it, why should they? This is like buying an iphone 5s that goes like a samsung galaxy S1, I don't think anyone would be happy just because they don't use heavy apps.
Well for me I perfectly understood the slow down of my old MBP seeing as it was a 4 year old baseline model. And in terms of the laptop "not being able to manage its own operative system" all OS's have their minor faults, i just find apples faults less than others. The windows PC's and laptops I have around the house hang and freeze when doing the most menial of tasks.

Using my rMBP I find the performance blazingly fast, especially when I start taxing it with high performance apps, it actually really surprises me sometimes. I have yet to experience any problems with it, apart from that one issue with the App Store.

One final thing I can note is that since originally posting I have booted into my Yosemite partition and can say that the resizing of the App Store is perfectly smooth for me there;)
 

leman

macrumors G4
Oct 14, 2008
10,459
4,964
App Store is simply badly written. Yes, resizing it lags as hell. Mail and Calendar have a similar problem, albeit less pronounced.

That said, does your main interaction with the computer consists of resizing the App Store? Sure, its annoying, but it never really bothered me — maybe because I do it at most once per month?
 

merrickdrfc

macrumors 6502
Jan 8, 2011
448
61
Berlin
I also have the resizing lag on both my iMac and MBA, so it is not rMBP specific. Poorly written app, maybe it'll be fixed in 10.10?
 

capathy21

macrumors 65816
Jun 16, 2014
1,366
538
Houston, Texas
As others have stated, the issue lies with the app store. If your machine lags in other areas as you mentioned, then I would recommend you exchanging it or returning it. I put the base model (4/128) through its paces last night and I could not get the machine to lag or hang once on processing or on graphics. The app store does stutter when resizing but as someone else mentioned, no OS is perfect.
 

Meister

Suspended
Oct 10, 2013
5,456
4,309
That said, does your main interaction with the computer consists of resizing the App Store?
:D my thoughts. Seems like OP bought the rmbp for constant AppStore resizing action. :D

That said, the retina macbooks do have stutter and lag problems not just with the app store, but with some other operations, too.

But: you can fix this by changing to a non-hidpi resolution with apps like switchresx.
 

nando87

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Jun 25, 2014
723
277
You're focusing on one single problem(that is potentially isolated to a single program). I mean, if you use your laptop to resize windows for 8 hours a day, I'd understand how this would be an issue. But you don't. Nobody does.

You state right in your first post that you're a gamer. I can tell you right now that this laptop isn't designed for you. Are you having problems with UI lag in other aspects of the operating system?
There is not a single program which executes the resizing fluently, more or less, but every program does it. Do you know what fps is? This system looks like it's working at less than 20 fps all the time, and that is very notable to the human eye, if the human don't want to be blind... Even the apple logo when it moves upwards startint the laptop goes like 6 fps. I don't want to game, I simply want it to move itself... It's just its an empty ui!! I have read you rightly criticizing another companies for the same thing....

I'm starting to think that you are simply used to it. I've never believed people who said to me that I was a fanboy just for recommending apple, but if you say this is normal and that windows laptops freeze and lag... You are loosing all my credibility.

I can upload a video of another of my systems running windows moving properly if you want to see what moving properly is.

Anyway, I won't try to explain this again because I'm seeing this goes nowhere and every of you are happy expending lots of money on ridiculous performance, and I'm sad to have to say this, just because its brand.

----------

:D my thoughts. Seems like OP bought the rmbp for constant AppStore resizing action. :D

That said, the retina macbooks do have stutter and lag problems not just with the app store, but with some other operations, too.

But: you can fix this by changing to a non-hidpi resolution with apps like switchresx.
I would like to believe that if I buy a laptop Apple sells with retina resolution it can work with retina resolution. The "it just works" concept flies if it doesn't. Are you reading yourselves? Critizising windows for being complex and freezing and lagging and so on and saying me I should configure my brand new macbook pro's resolution with some app so I can work OK... For God's sake... I'm not doing a single thing because the fault is not mine, I'm returning it.
 
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5to1

macrumors 6502
Mar 9, 2008
302
48
There is not a single program which executes the resizing fluently, more or less, but every program does it. Do you know what fps is? This system looks like it's working at less than 20 fps all the time, and that is very notable to the human eye, if the human don't want to be blind... Even the apple logo when it moves upwards startint the laptop goes like 6 fps. I don't want to game, I simply want it to move itself... It's just its an empty ui!! I have read you rightly criticizing another companies for the same thing....

I'm starting to think that you are simply used to it. I've never believed people who said to me that I was a fanboy just for recommending apple, but if you say this is normal and that windows laptops freeze and lag... You are loosing all my credibility.

I can upload a video of another of my systems running windows moving properly if you want to see what moving properly is.

Anyway, I won't try to explain this again because I'm seeing this goes nowhere and every of you are happy expending lots of money on ridiculous performance, and I'm sad to have to said this, just because its brand.

----------



I would like to believe that if I buy a laptop Apple sells with retina resolution it can work with retina resolution. The "it just works" concepty flies if it doesn't. Are you reading yourselves? Critizising windows for being complex and freezing and lagging and so on and saying me I should configure my brand new macbook pro's resolution with some app so I can work OK... For God's sake...
I'd be interested to see your examples. I've noticed the issue with the App store when I was on a slower internet connection (appears to be exacerbated when the store hasn't loaded everything yet, lax coding IMO). But haven't really seen it on anything else.

As a test I loaded up the BBC Sport site, which is my go to site for checking UI/etc lag on a machine. I grabbed the corner of the safari window and randomly dragged it all over the screen and the system coped without issue (several other windows also running on multiple spaces). I'd be really curious to see where you're managing to create lag, as over several months I've found this a fantastic machine (coming from several windows machines previously).
 
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leman

macrumors G4
Oct 14, 2008
10,459
4,964
There is not a single program which executes the resizing fluently, more or less, but every program does it.
Safari, TextMate2 and Terminal are applications which I use the most and they all resize smoothly. Again, I spend my time with the machine working and/or reading, not constantly resizing windows. As I said before, I agree with you that the issue is annoying, but you are clearly blowing it out of proportion.
 

thejadedmonkey

macrumors G3
May 28, 2005
8,122
1,000
Pennsylvania
Apple doesn't do software well, they never have. iOS 7 is a buggy mess, it's a huge re-write because they don't decouple their themes from their OS.

OS X is just as bad, where they actually went for 2 years without proper multi-monitor support. It hasn't exactly been "good" for years, but they can hide performance issues with SSD's and faster CPU. Unfortunately, on their high DPI displays where the hardware is really being pushed to its max, there's way less headroom for the hardware to compensate.

I've been saying for years, the nicest computer money can buy is a MacBook (without a dGPU!) running Windows.
 

nando87

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Jun 25, 2014
723
277
Apple doesn't do software well, they never have. iOS 7 is a buggy mess, it's a huge re-write because they don't decouple their themes from their OS.

OS X is just as bad, where they actually went for 2 years without proper multi-monitor support. It hasn't exactly been "good" for years, but they can hide performance issues with SSD's and faster CPU. Unfortunately, on their high DPI displays where the hardware is really being pushed to its max, there's way less headroom for the hardware to compensate.

I've been saying for years, the nicest computer money can buy is a MacBook (without a dGPU!) running Windows.
Ok I think you understand me, and you have captured my attention with that... I'll try to install windows to see if it works properly
 

Meister

Suspended
Oct 10, 2013
5,456
4,309
I would like to believe that if I buy a laptop Apple sells with retina resolution it can work with retina resolution. Critizising windows for being complex and freezing and lagging and so on and saying me I should configure my brand new macbook pro's resolution with some app so I can work OK... For God's sake... I'm not doing a single thing because the fault is not mine, I'm returning it.
if you wouldve done research before you bought the rmbp you would saved yourself the trouble.
I have opened threads about the scrolling lag before. OSX has problems with the retina in certain situations.
I agreed, that this is rather annoying.

The video you posted doesnt show any problems, except for the AppStore, that was loading while you were resizing.
Also the :apple: stores are all a mess.

I will continue to call windows a ****ed up mess! With win low fps is the least of your problems.
 
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romesk90

macrumors member
Mar 28, 2014
60
0
Apple doesn't do software well, they never have. iOS 7 is a buggy mess, it's a huge re-write because they don't decouple their themes from their OS.

OS X is just as bad, where they actually went for 2 years without proper multi-monitor support. It hasn't exactly been "good" for years, but they can hide performance issues with SSD's and faster CPU. Unfortunately, on their high DPI displays where the hardware is really being pushed to its max, there's way less headroom for the hardware to compensate.

I've been saying for years, the nicest computer money can buy is a MacBook (without a dGPU!) running Windows.
The two bolded points are key.
I learned this the hard way. For the first point, I have a ton of performance issues and after battling with Apple it came to the engineers recommending a higher performance Mac, and/or a SSD.

For the second point, almost all my issues went away since running windows. I now run windows 95% of the time on my Mac.
 

nando87

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Jun 25, 2014
723
277
if you wouldve done research before you bought the rmbp you would saved yourself the trouble.
I have opened threads about the scrolling lag before. OSX has problems with the retina in certain situations.
I agreed, that this is rather annoying.

The video you posted doesnt show any problems, except for the AppStore, that was loading while you were resizing.
Also the :apple: stores are all a mess.

I will continue to call windows a ****ed up mess! With win low fps is the least of your problems.
I would like to see a video of a permanent problem under windows like permanent are my problems with os x using a 1700 eur machine please :confused: I'm an engineer and I've been using pcs for 22 years, I know very well how windows is...
 
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Rmeaux

macrumors newbie
Jun 26, 2014
1
0
How can it have such a poor performance??

For the second point, almost all my issues went away since running windows. I now run windows 95% of the time on my Mac.

Everyone has opinions and I respect that. But there are reasons I can never be in customer service.

Wouldn't trade my 13 rMBP for anything in the world.

Run two 24" monitors off my 2 display ports and this thing doesn't flinch one bit.

I don't recall ever resizing the App Store window. I have maximized it with moom, but never by corner dragging.

It maximizes fine.
 
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capathy21

macrumors 65816
Jun 16, 2014
1,366
538
Houston, Texas
Apple doesn't do software well
While it sounds like you are probably more knowledgeable about the internal design of an operating system than I am, I can say what matters most is the user experience. For iOS, the experience is second to none. Having used every high end Android device there is, none of them hold a candle to the iPhone 5S when it comes to ease of use, battery life and stability. It's the same experience on a Mac. Apple's products are able to perform so much better than their competitors with considerably less memory or processing power in some cases (1 gig of ram in iphone 5S and iPad Air). I think the reason many people including myself have no issue "paying more to get less" as anti Apple people put it, is for the overall software experience.

By no means am I saying you are anti Apple, I was just making a reference.
 
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