How can people afford such expensive stuff?

[Shanghaichica]

I couldn’t afford nice expensive things when I was 18 either but have worked hard to get a good job and so has my wife. We have children which are the most expensive things you can have but fortunately as you progress through your career the money comes. Have patience and focus on now living within your means. I can afford nice things now and have what I want but don’t go blowing money on every high end gadget as I simply don’t need it.

I encounter a lot of people in life who drive nice cars, wear designer gear and can’t afford any of it. We sadly live in a ‘have to have’ era unfortunately.

Exactly it’s about having the right priorities and having occasional treats when everything else is taken care of. Most of my money goes on my kids. I have a lot of things that I need tech wise and otherwise I don’t need to blow my money on everything that gets released.

 

[max2]

I agree.



Hes in France!

 

[rm5]

I agree.



Hes in France!

Right, and those “little things”—which are by no means little, are wonderful opportunities. So again, this is not me complaining about “not having enough money” or whatever. I’m making true points and stating true facts, that’s about it. I’m by no means complaining.

Anyway, that’s the other thing I never considered—which is being married to someone, because theoretically you’d have more money, but as others have stated, that does NOT necessarily translate to better stuff.

Anyway, just thought I’d chime in a little after reading other people’s posts.

 

[Herbert123]

I wish it was that simple, but unfortunately, it's not.

Making small amounts of money isn't the problem: anyone can take a job in the servicing industry. Or work as a cleaner.

It is much harder to push into the zone of "wealthy independence" - which does not necessarily mean that you earn an incredible amount, but enough for you to be able to decide to stop working full-time or completely, have the financial freedom to travel wherever you want, and enjoy life to the fullest, with or without family, and work on things that YOU want rather than what others want you to work on.

The reality is that the majority of people work for a few other people. It is that last group of people who receive the largest in-flow of money, while the rest is mostly scraping by.

The trick is to either become part of that smaller group of people (have other people work for you), or find a way to become independently wealthy enough to not care about those people, or rather minimize the impact they have on your life. Either of these paths are much, much harder to accomplish, and there is no single path to success.

Most people living on Earth barely scrape by. @rm5 You seem to be one of the lucky ones to be born in a relatively privileged wealthy environment with lots of potential paths to success. I write this without any prejudice or emotion: it is a mere fact. You have many paths still open to you, such as your choice of education. I'd say (from experience): take nothing for granted. Be aware of your privileged situation that you happened upon due to sheer luck, and take advantage of that, but with humility and empathy for others.

Comparing yourself with others only leads to desperation. Focusing on money alone leads to nowhere. Rather decide how you'd like to play the game of life, define your personal values for success, and understand that life may push back!

Unfortunately in the current state of human society it is often the ones without any humility and empathy who succeed at securing a position where others are working for them...

And don't forget that, as an 18 year old, as a musician, artist, tech worker, etc. your future working life is going to be influenced by the developments in the field of AI. In the next few years ANYONE can generate acceptable-up-to-great looking art, videos, 3d, etc. with a prompt of just a few lines, feeding it examples to guide the result.

AI is already having an impact on art jobs. Companies no longer have to hire a branding agency or illustrators/photographers for a variety of projects. The same will happen to musicians, voice artists, singers, and composers. Everyone will have to adapt. Knowledge workers as well.

One could say that yet again a centralization of money is happening, with a few people who own the AI train gaining a large influx of money versus many freelance artists losing income.

Ask yourself what that means for your future career (or how you wish to play the game of life!).

 

[rm5]

@Herbert123 I’m going to have to read your post several times over. And I mean that in the nicest way, because I need to appreciate all that you’re saying!

Most people living on Earth barely scrape by. @rm5 You seem to be one of the lucky ones to be born in a relatively privileged wealthy environment with lots of potential paths to success.

I mean I would not consider my family “wealthy”—I think all of us are pretty much middle class, but a lot of my classmates are from very wealthy families. Am I “jealous” of them? Not really. You know why? Because I’m happy the way I am. I could care less if two of my classmates drive Teslas and Porsches (it’s true), I choose not to put that stuff at the forefront of my life. What I care about is advancing my potential as a musician and as a person (which I brought up in another thread).

Regardless, I think what you’re saying is true, and I absolutely recognize that. And I think it has to do with the music industry as a whole, and the opportunities that I’ve been able to get through other people. I’ve been accepted into four (of six schools I applied to) very good music programs, also, and I’m very lucky to be able to go to such schools.

You have many paths still open to you, such as your choice of education.

Exactly… and like I mentioned above, I’m honored to be able to do that, partially because of all the people I know and all the opportunities I’ve gotten over the years.

Anyway, like I said at the beginning, im gonna have to read your post several times over, because I really do feel like just reading it once is not appreciative of all the work you put forth to my sort of useless thread. And that applies to everyone else, too. That’s why I’ve read this entire thread probably three times now, because every time I read through it, more stuff becomes apparent to me (and honestly, the more stupid I feel to some degree…)

Edit: I’ve been reading (for the fourth time now I think) Jeremy Borum’s book “Guerrilla Film Scoring: Practical Advice From Hollywood Composers,” which is a very good book that I would recommend to ANYONE—not just musicians. He brings up in the first chapter about the Hollywood industry being “dead” in a sense, and composers often getting what are called “package deals”—where THEY have to provide their own equipment. That makes me a little worried reading that, although I’m reassured by the fact that it’s gonna be at least another 10 years until I personally get one of those jobs.

 

[max2]

How bad is it in Paris right now?

Sorry.

 

[rm5]

How bad is it in Paris right now?

Sorry.

No need to apologize! It was actually not as bad as I thought it would be, which made the trip a lot more enjoyable. I did actually watch the demonstration on Thursday at Place de la Bastille, which was very interesting.

 

[rm5]

Remember that having the most high-end gear doesn't necessarily guarantee success in these fields. Many famous artists and professionals have made exceptional work with less expensive equipment. Although it's tempting to want the best gear, it's not a mandatory requirement to create fantastic music or films.

Right, and I'm sure that's become even more true in the past 10 years or so (although I have no proof).

It's unfortunate that some professionals criticized you for not having the most high-end equipment. Keep in mind that everyone has distinct journeys and budget constraints. Utilize what's available to you, create excellent work, and don't allow the pressure of acquiring the latest and greatest gear to hinder the joy of producing.

I mean they weren't harsh criticisms—more light stuff like, "You should get newer equipment because the methods of using the older stuff are outdated," and "In a professional environment, that's what you'll be using [the newer equipment]," and "You should have at least [such and such gear]." I mean those are just a few examples—it was by no means harsh, it was more of a gentle push.

I took a recording/music production class through the university's "Continuing Education" department when I was 14, and the instructor, although one of the nicest people I've ever worked with, insisted I get a newer computer and Logic Pro (which was what was being used in the class). I eventually did that, but I would have to "rethink" the material they were teaching, and how I could (or couldn't) apply it to my old gear. Keep in mind, I was using a 20-year-old (at the time) Roland VS-2000CD, which, if you look at the picture alone, you'll see how this became a bit of an issue.

I feel like had I bought Logic Pro prior to the class (and a computer that could run it), I wouldn't gotten much more out of it.

 

[contacos]

Not just this, I am 34 years old and I always wonder how people afford a house, two cars and children. I make above average in Germany and my BF earns well as well but we are still only able to afford a two room apartment in Berlin and our car is a 300€ monthly subscription. Don’t get me started on getting a credit to buy anything. I was already hesitant to pay off my iPhone in installments, like what if you loose your job 😱

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Not just this, I am 34 years old and I always wonder how people afford a house, two cars and children. I make above average in Germany and my BF earns well as well but we are still only able to afford a two room apartment in Berlin and our car is a 300€ monthly subscription. Don’t get me started on getting a credit to buy anything. I was already hesitant to pay off my iPhone in installments, like what if you loose your job

My wife and I have always had the philosophy that we would never buy a property that we couldn’t afford if one of us lost our jobs. We have 2 kids, 2 cars and a home and we don’t stretch ourselves as we are in a position where we could just about afford all that on one wage should it be needed, touch wood we don’t. We also live in one of the cheapest places in Wales so we get much more for our money. Friends of ours in London pay twice our mortgage per month in rent and can’t afford to drive there despite earning a decent amount. I think expectations need to be adjusted depending on circumstances and location.

 

[LeeW]

Interesting discussion. I have the simple approach of living within my means. Seems to work for me. It does help to have a job that pays well. I turned 50 last year, my mortgage is paid off, and not a single penny of debt at this stage in my life.

Throughout my life it has been a simple case of if I don't have the money to go out and buy it, I don't get it.

I bought a new Mac Mini m2 Pro last week but for me, it is always a case of one in and one out when it comes to Apple. So I gave up my MBA and sold it on eBay to have the Mac Mini although I could easily have kept both. All about being disciplined.

 

[rm5]

I bought a new Mac Mini m2 Pro last week but for me, it is always a case of one in and one out when it comes to Apple. So I gave up my MBA and sold it on eBay to have the Mac Mini although I could easily have kept both. All about being disciplined.

That's what I used to (and still do) with music/recording equipment—which is also very expensive. That's what I'll probably end up doing with my computers, too. My goal is to get a Mac Studio at some point soon, although I question whether that's actually a good idea given that I'm going off to college in the fall.

 

[rm5]

And that's my other concern, is that after college (I did the math), I will likely have at least $20,000 in student loans—which I get it, take a very long time to pay off, but that seems like it would hit your bank account pretty hard if you don't work a good-paying job right out of the gate, but maybe that's not true, idk.

 

[LeeW]

I will likely have at least $20,000 in student loans—which I get it, take a very long time to pay off, but that seems like it would hit your bank account pretty hard if you don't work a good-paying job right out of the gate, but maybe that's not true, idk.

Unless you're starting out wealthy, debt is going to be a part of your life, don't fear it, manage it.

I am grateful to be in the position I am in today with a good income and no debt. Wasn't always like that. I had plenty of debt in years gone by. If I hadn't managed it well enough I would probably still be in debt now.

Don't fall into the trap of trying to keep up with others, you mentioned others looking down at you for your equipment in the opening post. that's an issue they have, not you. If you can do what you need to do with the equipment you have then all good.

One day you might be able to afford that $5k apple device just because you want it rather than need it. Maybe not but that does not make you any less of a person. Someone will always have more money than you and someone will always have less.

I live in the UK, my income is considered high vs the average for the country. I live quite modestly than others I know who earn less than 1/2 what I do and you would think they earn twice as much as me given the way they live. Bet I sleep better at night than they do with the debt they must have.

 

[rm5]

Unless you're starting out wealthy, debt is going to be a part of your life, don't fear it, manage it.

Which I'm not, so yeah... I'd imagine spending very intentionally/carefully and keeping a good budget are all aspects of this that can help manage it.

I live in the UK, my income is considered high vs the average for the country. I live quite modestly than others I know who earn less than 1/2 what I do and you would think they earn twice as much as me given the way they live. Bet I sleep better at night than they do with the debt they must have.

Well and that's the other thing—maybe I should be talking to some of the older musicians I know to see how they ended up "making it" in the industry and live comfortably, and how I can do that.

 

[LeeW]

Well and that's the other thing—maybe I should be talking to some of the older musicians I know to see how they ended up "making it" in the industry and live comfortably, and how I can do that.

Indeed, talk to the people who are already there more than the ones still on their way but they too can have good advice. Everyone (mostly) learns from their mistakes and there is always an opportunity for you to avoid those mistakes as well as take advantage of knowing what they did right.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

I live in the UK, my income is considered high vs the average for the country. I live quite modestly than others I know who earn less than 1/2 what I do and you would think they earn twice as much as me given the way they live. Bet I sleep better at night than they do with the debt they must have.

I can relate to this. I see parents in the school yard who drive Range Rovers and X5’s either leased or financed and dressed head to toe in designer clothes, yet earn half of what I do and live in tiny terraced houses in the rougher part of town. It’s all about appearance which is fine, but the debt they must have is ridiculous.

 

[LeeW]

I see parents in the school yard who drive Range Rovers and X5’s either leased or financed and dressed head to toe in designer clothes, yet earn half of what I do

Exactly what I was referring to. Other people in their 71-plate leased Range Rover and me in my fully paid 68-plate Ford Focus. But I am the poor one in their eyes.

 

[dmr727]

My parents used to call them the thirty thousand dollar millionaires, and I have a few buddies that live their lives leveraged to the gills. Thing is, they're *not* losing any sleep over it - they're just wired to live life day by day and not be concerned about the consequences or future. As one friend says, "If ***t happens I just lose this stuff and live within my means, which is where I'd be had I not bought it to begin with. So I might as well enjoy it."

I actually envy the attitude to some extent - not the debt of course, but the ability to take life as it comes and not always be feeling like you have to be looking two steps ahead.

 

[LeeW]

My parents used to call them the thirty thousand dollar millionaires

Lol, will keep that for future use, thanks

they're *not* losing any sleep over it - they're just wired to live life day by day and not be concerned about the consequences or future. As one friend says, "If ***t happens I just lose this stuff and live within my means, which is where I'd be had I not bought it to begin with. So I might as well enjoy it."

Indeed, plenty of people take that view and as you say don't lose sleep over it. I couldn't.

As much as anything it's never as simple as losing stuff and living within your means. If the **** does hit the fan you are not necessarily losing all of the debt with the loss of the physical items. Then your credit rating is destroyed which can take years to rebuild, and that can have the biggest impact long into the future.

Each to their own.

 

[dmr727]

As much as anything it's never as simple as losing stuff and living within your means. If the **** does hit the fan you are not necessarily losing all of the debt with the loss of the physical items. Then your credit rating is destroyed which can take years to rebuild, and that can have the biggest impact long into the future.

Each to their own.

Yeah, to each their own. I don't understand it either.

 

[Apple fanboy]

I’d much rather own a nice home than a nice car.
Personally the only money I’ve ever borrowed has been for a mortgage. Never ever owned a CC. Never will.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

I’d much rather own a nice home than a nice car.
Personally the only money I’ve ever borrowed has been for a mortgage. Never ever owned a CC. Never will.

The funny thing is those who have never had a CC are more of a risk in lenders eyes. I have a CC purely for internet purchases and when I’m abroad as it’s safer and it’s the banks money getting stolen rather than mine should my card be skimmed. I’ve had car loans in the past but small ones that are easily manageable and never longer than 2 years. Some I know borrow £30k+ and face years transferring around debt to avoid added fees. Not a good way to live but those Louis Vuitton handbags aren’t going to be bought on an admin wage lol.

 

[Apple fanboy]

The funny thing is those who have never had a CC are more of a risk in lenders eyes. I have a CC purely for internet purchases and when I’m abroad as it’s safer and it’s the banks money getting stolen rather than mine should my card be skimmed. I’ve had car loans in the past but small ones that are easily manageable and never longer than 2 years. Some I know borrow £30k+ and face years transferring around debt to avoid added fees. Not a good way to live but those Louis Vuitton handbags aren’t going to be bought on an admin wage lol.

The credit rating thing comes up a lot. But if I never intend to borrow money it’s really not a risk. If I’m abroad it’s for work, so it’s the company card that’s making the payment.
Internet shopping is perfectly safe with a debit card.
When I got my last mortgage. 3/4 of the purchase price was from my equity in my last mortgage free home, so there was no issue there either.
Whenever I have any spare cash it goes into paying the mortgage off earlier. We’ve already reduced the term by a couple of years.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

The credit rating thing comes up a lot. But if I never intend to borrow money it’s really not a risk. If I’m abroad it’s for work, so it’s the company card that’s making the payment.
Internet shopping is perfectly safe with a debit card.
When I got my last mortgage. 3/4 of the purchase price was from my equity in my last mortgage free home, so there was no issue there either.
Whenever I have any spare cash it goes into paying the mortgage off earlier. We’ve already reduced the term by a couple of years.

Internet shopping is as safe with a debit card as a credit card, but my point was these often get hacked and it’s easier if it’s a credit card as it’s not your money you’re waiting a week or two to get back through the banks fraud department. It’s all cool though as we all do what works best for us.