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How could Apple revolutionize the MacBook Pro?
- Thread starter Gjwilly
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It's an arrogance with many media / video / picture people that look down on the Apple Pro line today because it's not exactly what they want. Guess what, those people do not make a market. Professionals do. That's professionals in all walks of life and business. Is it better to sell one machine to a photographer or 1000 machines to CPA's. I'll gladly take the profits from the 1000 CPA's.
The "Pro's aren't pro's anymore' crowd need a serious attitude adjustment.
'A laptop that cannot be configured with fast quad core, fast discrete graphics, 32GiB RAM, and 1.5TB of storage should not be called Pro anymore.'
Started there, now look around these forums. You'll find plenty of snobby media 'pros'.
Well, if it's not what I want then of course... I'll look down on it.
Can't think of a better reason to do just that.Stop taking the word so personally.
Everyone just needs to expunge the work "Pro" from their vocabulary because it has no universal meaning. (Unless you're in the NFL or are a hooker)."Pro" has been so over-hyped and so over-marketed it's just downright funny.
Stop taking the word so personally.
"Pro" has been so over-hyped and so over-marketed it's just downright funny.
That's exactly my point. Media Pro's think that word belongs to them. Professionals have almost countless fields they can be in.
I'm just sick and tired of the media snobs thinking they are the only market the pro machines should be tailored to.
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I said start with those specs and keep reading. All the words matter.
I don't care if media people are obsessed with "Pro", there should be a power lineup for EVERYBODY that needs it.
Nobody is saying no standard models should exist. What bothers me is that Apple attempts to kill the cMBP by calling a stupid ultrabook "Pro".
IGZO + Haswell could lead to something pretty amazing. If a full fledged laptop with Retina could get 14+ hours of battery life that would be revolutionizing laptops as we know them. Also with the rumor of discrete graphics gone and an iGPU being able to carry the load "well enough."
I've read through many of the posts and it shouldn't be possible with the watt consumption with the new chips. I don't think that IGZO is even being manufactured for screens yet.
However, with the thread title, I think if the new MBP could do 14+ hours it would actually be revolutionary. Not bringing a charging cable and hunting for an outlet would be a complete change for professionals.
My Haswell MBA + Windows 8 bootcamp is pretty awesome for meeting heavy days.
I've read through many of the posts and it shouldn't be possible with the watt consumption with the new chips. I don't think that IGZO is even being manufactured for screens yet.
However, with the thread title, I think if the new MBP could do 14+ hours it would actually be revolutionary. Not bringing a charging cable and hunting for an outlet would be a complete change for professionals.
My Haswell MBA + Windows 8 bootcamp is pretty awesome for meeting heavy days.
There was a time when Apple agreed with you. The 13" MacBook wasn't a pro at all (unibody MacBook). In 2009 it was simply rebranded with the new name, a speed bump and, the return of a firewire port.
So by definition... if you use a firewire port only then are you considered a "Pro".
And my point is that 95% of people who are looking for an exclusive 'power lineup' don't need it.
Most people don't. They have a issue about wanting the biggest and baddest out there for no reason.
How many times do we see it on these forums. 'Hi, I'm a student that will be taking notes and word processing, I may do some pictures here and there. What should I get?'
Answer: check out the MacBook Air, you'll love it.
Follow up: I am worried the air isn't big enough for my needs. I'm going to get the $2600 15 inch MacBook Pro with retina.
I was really hoping that this update would bring IGZO, but at this point it seems like that isn't very likely. Though I would like to be surprised and see IGZO make an appearance.
A) you'll carry your charging cord but not a 4", 1/2 ounce plastic dongle?
B)I thought you said you had a 2011. Not 12. Regardless, you'll get 4/6 hours (pending size) not 9/12, compared to the current Haswell models. The Ivies were already quick. And a 13% increase is typically pretty ubiquitous with proc updates
C)PCIe SSDs have been around. However until Apple and Sony put them in this round of laptops, they're 'new'. PCIe SSDs have just over the past year dropped in price. Last year I remember looking at a 1tb SSD ( PCIe )---$2,999
D)I agree Intel is the one building the GPU. Apple is also a large buyer of Intel products and has been instrumental in kicking Intel in the rear to increase iGPU performance
Again...if you can outline this significant 'power tech uses' market that Apple should be chasing, I'm listening. Most folding @, weather simulation, genetic coding and matching is done at workstations. Not even necessarily desktops the way we know desktops. Through access to super computers and CPU/GPU arrays, render farms, et al. Not your laptop
By "long way", what does that mean? If you say 4-5 years then we are in agreement.
Preaching to the choir. But the "consumers" far exceed the content providers my friend. You'll always need OSX for one thing at least... to maintain iOS!
Yes but how long does Apple "chase" a dwindling market which it never really had a foothold. (1 out of 10 machines run OSX. Maybe 1-1/2 on its best day).
huh???
a person or thing that is mysterious, puzzling, or difficult to understand.
The Mac Pro is puzzling to me. After all this time in hiatus I don't understand why they felt the need to bring it back. The damage had pretty much been done and people were actually forgetting about it.
Dwindling market? Apple has been on the rise 14 of the last 15 months. Market share and increased sales. They don't break out their Mac sales...but one would assume the MBPs are a large chunk of that percentage. Meanwhile Dell and HP are in a nosedive. Lenovo is really the only manufacturer gaining, albeit single digits and only the last two quarters
Apple's 'computer division' is profitable enough to make Forbes 500 on its own. And close to the top 100. iTunes as well!
Not sure what you're smok.... Ah, never mind. Just saw your name
Those without the eyes and/or imagination to recognize the merits of the new MP are, IMO, blind. An eighth the size with more power both in the CPU and GPU. Finally workstation grade graphics out of the box 1200mb/second PCIe speeds...and cosmetically....gone are the beige boxes.
Not if it sucks resources and detracts from other, more profitable market segments. (i.e., iOS). And keep in mind... universally, the laptop/notebook segment as you know it is diminishing.
Then why are iPads and tablets in general canabalizing said "laptops"?
Listen, I'm not saying full-fledged laptops will disappear entirely. They will however be relegated to the "niche" market and Apple's version (whatever that may be) will not be running OSX.
They're cannabalizing PC purchases. Again, look at the Mac computer sales (- this past quarter). Year over year. Quarter to quarter. Not sure where you're getting your 'facts' EEK'
Again, I guess you don't understand professional. The bold response I marked...your rebuttal to what a useful professional laptop makes, is one helluva niche community. Only made smaller because most folks doing that kind of modeling, engineering and number crunching...the need for that kind of power isn't proper in any laptop. You can have your Dell workstation. They're available if you need them. It doesn't make sense to follow that route if you're Apple. It's way to small of a purchase base and not what makes a company profitable nor do most of these applications get run on a portable computer. Desktops and integrated systems, networks and 'super' computers are the folks utilizing this kind of power.
Sony followed the Air and isn't achieving anywhere near that kind of speed. While NAND and mPCIe storage is similar....we've not seen these read/write speeds to date in a consumer laptop. Especially one that starts at $999. Talk til you're blue in the face. Your arguments and semi knowledge of what a 'pro' computer is seems short sighted and very much looked at with tunnel vision.
No one is saying an Air with a ULV core i processor constitutes a pro machine. We've been discussing the quad core rMBP (15") that indeed approaches 100% memory efficiency and saturation in comparison with its removable DRAM cousins.
Interesting take. They didn't just change the shape. They cut its volume by almost 85%. Increased its performance as far as CPU and PCIe SSD as well as professional work station graphics...out of the box. Dell doesn't sell it that way. It must be configured. Neither does HP. Same song....and at close to $10k for their machines....I'd consider what Apple is doing with the pro revolutionary.
I remember reading the same BS pre iPhone release. Pre iPad release. Pre iPod release. I'll take Apple at face value until they BS me
The UltraBook in Mac's lineup is the Air. Not a pro. I'd agree if you were talking about the 13" rMBP....but then again, its still a fast little computer unless you're a gamer.
The new MP can be configured with 12 cores. My rMBP (4 cores) runs every piece of software I've thrown at it. Primarily we edit with Smoke and Premier. Pro Tools and Audition for audio. After effects and photoshop run smooth as butter.
What were you doing two or three years ago?
Quad core not gonna cut it??? Come on...seriously?
There's a difference between knowing that I'll need something, and being unprepared because something unexpected came up. Generally I don't get surprised by a 6 hour battery life, but I do get surprised when someone hands me an ethernet cable and says "sorry, no wifi".
I have a 2011 model, purchased in 2012. Either way, my normal trip away from a desk is 2-3 hours, so I'm not terribly concerned about battery life.
I'm just pointing out that they're nothing new.
And I'm sure it's Apple's 5% of the PC market that convinced Intel, as opposed to Microsoft's 95%, the threat of Windows on Arm, and the billion+ smartphones that all use ARM CPUs. Definitely 100% Apple's doing
I'm not saying Apple doesn't benefit, just that they aren't all that instrumental.
Mobile workstations and gaming laptops exist for a reason. Not everybody can be tied to fixed equipment.
And you assume too much that having a datacenter means no power work is done locally.
And seriously, quad core is not enough for basic stuff, and 12-core is not enough for heavy stuff.
Yet they released and completely redesigned the mac pro. Its not really a niche community. Its pretty much anyone who needs a LOT of power on the go. Then of course there is the chicken and egg argument. People don't use those types of machines because its not available in a desirable enough format (which apple would be able to do better than any PC oem).
You are forgetting that pretty much any RAID 0 solution in any other PC notebook is still better than the Macbook Air. And the 4k read/write speeds on the Air are not any better than any other drive out there.
And this 100% RAM business is based of one guy who isn't an apple engineer. (And as I asked for before someone needs to run sandra memory on their rmbp under bootcamp to really compare. I get ~19.5 GB/sec with 1600 mhz CL 11 RAM on my notebook). I have not seen anything else confirming this 100% either. Especially since intel got rid of the FSB with Nelham, replacing it with QPI (quick path interconnect).
To calculate bandwidth on a modern system- 1600 mhz * 8 (64 bits=8 bytes)* 2 (modules/dual channel) = 25.6 GB/sec.
I'm honestly not sure where this guy is pulling the numbers from.
This is a 3630qm. How on earth are real world values larger than the theoretical values? Regardless of whatever the test you should not be seeing > supposedly theoretical values.
The only reason Apple's laptops still have the word "Pro" in them is because they decided to keep the moniker which used to distinguish their cheaper, low(er) performance laptops -- the regular plastic Macbooks. Now that all of their laptops include the unibody aluminum design (exclusive to MBP's at their release), they decided to keep it, and it made (and still makes) perfect sense.
I don't understand the bickering about whether the laptop is "actually" a pro-level laptop. Who cares? It has good performance and at its full potential can be used for some very powerful stuff. If you're looking for a video rendering machine with 4 Quadro graphics cards, forget about laptops and build yourself a ****ing PC. You don't need that kind of power on the go.
I don't understand the bickering about whether the laptop is "actually" a pro-level laptop. Who cares? It has good performance and at its full potential can be used for some very powerful stuff. If you're looking for a video rendering machine with 4 Quadro graphics cards, forget about laptops and build yourself a ****ing PC. You don't need that kind of power on the go.
Get out of my head.
But seriously, I don't know. How thinner and lighter can they make them? A module solution? I've been looking at the way the things have been going... I definitely see elaborate docking solutions in the future, like the way the Mac Pro is going with external add-ons, but that would be more a MBA kind of thing than a MPB "I want to keep all my computing power with me" thing.
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Jobs had already made the very good point that touch screen on laptop is an absolutely horrible idea because after 30 minutes of use, your arm just wants to fall off.
The phrase "any other PC notebook" is slightly misleading. I look a little trip to the websites of a few PC companies to double check and most still stick 5400hd drives in just about everything even their high end notebooks. Some offer 128gb SSD and Sony do offer 128gb in raid 0.
But if you walk into any major computer shop in the UK PC World, Currys Digital etc and say I want an SSD in my laptop you have a choice of Macbook Air or rMBP and thats it. PC Notebooks are not really trying to compete on SSD (a bad thing), they are still banging the fast processor low cost drum.
That being said I really hope the random r/w performance is a hell of a lot better on the new rMBP. A samsung evo in apples new form factor would be very nice if the apple fairies are listening.
There are a massive number of PC notebooks with SSDs. Pretty much any high end Ultrabook has one.
http://www.newegg.com/Laptops-Notebooks/SubCategory/ID-32#
First page under notebooks/laptops. I see 5 on that page with SSDs, one with SSD + HDD.
A lot of notebooks on that page are under $600 and a SSD would be too pricey at that cost. If you throw out the sub $700 market and look a macbook air form factor the majority have SSDs.