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How long will the 750m be able to handle gaming?

Starfyre said:
Running windows from Bootcamp shouldn't have anything to do with issues with any gaming. Your booting into it, not running OSX and Windows simultaneously. Though Im sure Apple could make the experience better without making the fans kick on all the time.
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correct. you're not 'running windows from bootcamp', you're running windows.

bootcamp is the software that lets you install windows through osx, and makes sure all the drivers for apple's hardware on the laptop talk to windows correctly (trackpad, audio, video - which can all be changed if you want).

The only time you run windows through osx is through vmware/parallels, which runs both os's simulteneously - which puts more strain on the cpu and has an adverse affect on the performance of the emulated os (windows).

all macs have had intel chips (x86, now x64) since 2006, meaning they can all run windows natively if you want. I can't believe it's still 2013 and people still think bootcamp is some sort of emulation software.
 
Starfyre said:
Running windows from Bootcamp shouldn't have anything to do with issues with any gaming. Your booting into it, not running OSX and Windows simultaneously. Though Im sure Apple could make the experience better without making the fans kick on all the time.
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Im more thinking about the drivers not being optimized for Mac hardware. That can make a huge difference. In any case, the 750m is not a card that can run games well on high settings. If its running current games well on medium settings then you better believe it will run poor on newer games a year or two down the road.

I love my mac. Its my first one. It just is what it is.... not a laptop you buy to play next gen games. Laptops like Alienware are what you buy if you are a serious gamer. Personally, I build desktops for that. If you are happy with current games on medium settings and older games on high... then yeah, Macs are perfectly fine. If you want to play next gen games max'd out or close to it... they are not.

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sabbyp said:
correct. you're not 'running windows from bootcamp', you're running windows.

bootcamp is the software that lets you install windows through osx, and makes sure all the drivers for apple's hardware on the laptop talk to windows correctly (trackpad, audio, video - which can all be changed if you want).

The only time you run windows through osx is through vmware/parallels, which runs both os's simulteneously - which puts more strain on the cpu and has an adverse affect on the performance of the emulated os (windows).

all macs have had intel chips (x86, now x64) since 2006, meaning they can all run windows natively if you want. I can't believe it's still 2013 and people still think bootcamp is some sort of emulation software.
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I wasn't trying to imply that running bootcamp was like running emulation software. I know what bootcamp is. Its not the same as running a windows machine. Drivers are not optimized for it. Sure it can run well, but I guarantee you that it runs better in computers built for it. For instance, people have troubles updating the Nvidia drivers for the GPU. You have to monkey around and find workarounds to make it happen.
 
The question solely depends on what you define as 'handle' and what you define as 'gaming'. The current rMBP with 750M will be able to play any current or future title for at least next 3 years at reasonable settings. Don't expect to max top games like BF4 out. Or to get 60 fps with them for what matters. But 40 fps with good IQ? No problem.

MatthewAMEL said:
If you want to be on cutting edge (1080p, full AA, ultra detail) you need a 780m (or even sli in games like Metro:Last Light).
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I played Last Light with the 650M - it run beautifully at high settings 1680x1050. And you don't need any AA even at that comparatively low resolution - its a 15" screen after all.
 
Given that the 750M is not even a gaming GPU. It is a medium range GPU meant to help in graphics intensive actions taken by the user in normal working conditions. Games are considered beyond normal and demanding (sometimes extreme) in terms of GPU performance requirements.

So, looking back at your question, the 750M was never a gaming GPU to begin with. Furthermore, any advantages it holds will only last as long as game developers don't increase GPU processing power requirements.
 
Scott7975 said:
I wasn't trying to imply that running bootcamp was like running emulation software. I know what bootcamp is. Its not the same as running a windows machine. Drivers are not optimized for it. Sure it can run well, but I guarantee you that it runs better in computers built for it. For instance, people have troubles updating the Nvidia drivers for the GPU. You have to monkey around and find workarounds to make it happen.
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Sorry, but this is nonsense. You don't need to 'optimise drivers for bootcamp', because there is nothing to 'optimise' in the first place. Its just a PC, plain and simple. I have owned Mac laptops and desktops for over 4 years now and I had NEVER an issue with updating to cutting edge Nvidia/ATI drivers. FYI, the 2012 rMBP consistently reports higher GPU benchmark scores than other laptops with the same GPU.

P.S. People who have issues with updating the drivers have been probably using hacked Windows. The OEM activation crack is known to cause all kinds of problems when installed on a Mac.
 
leman said:
Sorry, but this is nonsense. You don't need to 'optimise drivers for bootcamp', because there is nothing to 'optimise' in the first place. Its just a PC, plain and simple. I have owned Mac laptops and desktops for over 4 years now and I had NEVER an issue with updating to cutting edge Nvidia/ATI drivers. FYI, the 2012 rMBP consistently reports higher GPU benchmark scores than other laptops with the same GPU.

P.S. People who have issues with updating the drivers have been probably using hacked Windows. The OEM activation crack is known to cause all kinds of problems when installed on a Mac.
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Im not talking about drivers for bootcamp. Im talking about drivers for windows on mac hardware. You can argue all day long. I don't care. A 750m is still not going to run next gen games very well, so its moot.

I also don't care if GPU benchmarks scores are higher then other laptops. Its still a bad GPU for next gen games. If you want to play cutting edge then you either use 770's in sli or you use 780's.
 
Scott7975 said:
Im not talking about drivers for bootcamp. Im talking about drivers for windows on mac hardware.
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There is no such thing as 'mac hardware' in this case. Its the exact same card as used in a PC. The firmware may be tweaked, but that is also the case with many PC GPUs (like factory OC cards). Again, the MBP with 650M shows better performance under windows with the same drivers than most of the other laptops using the same GPU. Claiming that drivers are not optimised under these circumstances is just silly.

Scott7975 said:
I
I also don't care if GPU benchmarks scores are higher then other laptops. Its still a bad GPU for next gen games. If you want to play cutting edge then you either use 770's in sli or you use 780's.
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I will just leave this here then: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQ77vj_ZjSo

If you call this 'bad', then well... I don't even know what to say. Sure, other cards can do it better. The game is still clearly playable, enjoyable and looks really nice on top of that, and this is what counts.

P.S.

Scott7975 said:
You can argue all day long. I don't care.
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A wonderful attitude for an internet forum :p I think you wold be better suited with a blog.
 
leman said:
There is no such thing as 'mac hardware' in this case. Its the exact same card as used in a PC. The firmware may be tweaked, but that is also the case with many PC GPUs (like factory OC cards). Again, the MBP with 650M shows better performance under windows with the same drivers than most of the other laptops using the same GPU. Claiming that drivers are not optimised under these circumstances is just silly.



I will just leave this here then: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQ77vj_ZjSo

If you call this 'bad', then well... I don't even know what to say. Sure, other cards can do it better. The game is still clearly playable, enjoyable and looks really nice on top of that, and this is what counts.

P.S.



A wonderful attitude for an internet forum :p I think you wold be better suited with a blog.
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getting about 40-45 fps while recording with fraps on medium settings
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If you are happy playing a current gen game on medium setting, and getting 40-45 fps... then all the power to you. Next gen comes out and medium settings will net you half that. You want around 60 fps or better, because there are always spikes when you start to load more. Preferably on high settings or better. Last thing you want in a first person shooter is to be that guy that lost frames... cause you are the dead guy. I'm talking gamers here, not casual players that are happy that it runs ok.

In case you forgot... this thread is asking how long he can expect to play next gen games. It is not about how good can he run today and yesterdays games. I don't even consider running BF4 on medium, at 45 FPS good.

As for the rest... Are you trying to tell me that Windows runs better or at least the same on a Mac as it does on a PC?
 
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PC games won't take a drastic jump in GPU power needs just because next gen consoles are coming out.

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Scott7975 said:
As for the rest... Are you trying to tell me that Windows runs better or at least the same on a Mac as it does on a PC?
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A "PC" with the same specs as a Mac running Windows will run the same.
 
simon48 said:
PC games won't take a drastic jump in GPU power needs just because next gen consoles are coming out.
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Absolutely not true. Most game developers push current gen hardware, and often go past the bounds of what current gen hardware can do. There is a reason that new graphics cards come out all the time. There is a reason people pay big bucks for them. That reason is because people want to play max settings with 60+ fps.

A "PC" with the same specs as a Mac running Windows will run the same.
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Maybe so. That's why I asked. I'll judge that down the road. So far I disagree. Win7 burns battery and runs hot as hell thus far. the 750m is still not a gamers card.
 
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Scott7975 said:
Maybe so. That's why I asked. I'll judge that down the road. So far I disagree.
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I'm not sure if you understand.

A Mac will run exactly the same as a PC in Windows, ceteris paribus.

Read: "The Samsung Series 7 700Z7C (same processor) or the MSI GT70PH with Intel Core i7-3610QM reach comparable scores here," when comparing the benchmarks of the 2012 rMBP under Windows 8 with other laptops.

Source: http://www.notebookcheck.net/Review-Apple-MacBook-Pro-15-Retina-2-3-GHz-Mid-2012.78959.0.html

Personally, I also have the 2012 rMBP and I get even higher FPS in Bootcamp than those reported by other non-Apple laptops with the 650m. That is due to Apple's overclock + DDR5 usage though.

Scott7975 said:
the 750m is still not a gamers card.
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No one is arguing otherwise...

In regards to OP, the 750m already struggles to run some games on high/ultra (Metro: Last Light, CoH2, Hitman: Absolution, etc.)

If you want to play on moderate settings, I'm guessing at most 3 years, with two years being the more likely number.
 
leman said:
I played Last Light with the 650M - it run beautifully at high settings 1680x1050. And you don't need any AA even at that comparatively low resolution - its a 15" screen after all.
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If you say so...

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Metro-Last-Light-Benchmarked.92967.0.html
For normal details and a resolution of 1366 x 768 pixels, at least an upper mid-range graphics card is needed. It takes a GeForce GT 650M to go beyond 35 fps here. High details and HD or HD+ resolutions (around 1600 x 900) are only possible with fast high-end GPUs such as the GeForce GTX 675MX while maximum details and a Full HD resolution of 1920 x 1080 pixels are impossible even with the fastest notebook GPUs such as the GeForce GTX 680M and the Radeon HD 7970M.
 
fs454 said:
At the rate we're going, forever. Games haven't moved much in a while. I mean, look at the Xbox One and PS4, still outputting games at 720p.
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:rolleyes:

iWUhy3WCgXUNq.gif
 
Mansali said:
If I were to get a macbook pro with the 750m, how long should I expect it to keep up with the latest games? I wanna keep this laptop long term.
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It can't keep up with the latest games now. Games like Crysis 3 and Battlefield 4 can't be enjoyed at high settings with comfortable framerates. You will need to lower your settings to get it smooth.


As a frame of reference:

HUBt5i3.jpg



This picture shows you 750m (a mobile graphics card with 2GB GGDR5). It's made for medium sized laptops. It's designed to run in extremely cramped spaces with a low power usage.

The rest of the graphics cards are dedicated DESKTOP graphics cards. The 660 Ti is the basic entry card recommended for the average build. That's your run of the mill standard card. It's not high end, but it's a fairly medium specced card.

Modern computer games are specifically designed with these in mind. It makes sense that desktop graphics are so much more powerful as a desktop graphics card like a 780 is like twice as fat as an actual rMBP and almost as long as a 13 inch rMBP in dimensions.


Secondly, as you can see the card is struggling with many modern games(released within the last 24 months) at high or ultra settings; http://www.notebookcheck.net/NVIDIA-GeForce-GT-750M.90245.0.html

Notebookcheck is not particularly reliable so take it with a grain of salt. they compare averages and not very precise. it's all mish mashed different resolutions, settings and with all sorts of other things that impact their scores.
But what you can gauge from it, is that many PC games are build with desktop class performance in mind.
 
I know this is diverging from the topic by a couple miles, but I think this is where the eGPU will come in. We may not see commercial eGPU solutions during this MBP model year (we might; It's mostly up to Intel), but the bandwidth is there.

I won't bother getting into the benchmark details, but TB2 has the bandwidth to run a card like the GTX 680 at ~80-90% of its normal performance levels.

Whatever speeds a hypothetical TB3 offer could likely run a GTX 780 at essentially full capacity. The CPUs in MBPs are now nearly even with the desktop equivalents (it's very close anyway) so you would see essentially desktop-level performance with this configuration with less heat output from the laptop (no heat from internal iGPU or dGPU).

You'd only be able to do this at a desk, but for many people this could a great solution. An "HD 6200" (made up name for Broadwell's iGPU) or even 850m for mobile use (both of which would be very decent GPUs themselves) with a home docking station including an eGPU. Equal potential here for those who need serious compute power as well.

I actually wonder if Apple plans to do this themselves now that they've released an iGPU-only 15" rMBP.
 
It's not a gaming GPU. Here are some examples of modern games on it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKcV_of5znA

It's ok if you lower settings and are satisfied with less than 60FPS. The games in one year will require more. If I was to judge on this matter, I'd say that havy duty games of 2014-2015 will be barely playable at lowest settings if at all on 750M. Keep in mind that not all the games are killers when it comes to graphics. Most are nicely scalable to lower settings but then - will you like it?

If I was you, I'd be looking at 27" iMac for gaming or even PC or console.
 
I can play League of Legends on my rmbp 15 with the 750m at 2048x1240 (i forget the exact numbers) at high settings, no shadows, no aa and no vync. I hover at around 55-60 FPS.

However, the temperature soars from 39 C to 84 C.

I lowered the resolution to 1650x1050 and now it's hanging around 70-74 C.
 
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