How many people aren't getting the new iMac because of the hard drive?

[tsugaru]

I know, it is outrageous. This is why I've chosen to install standard hard drive and keep my money in the pocket.

So you should realize that when you say you had to put software on just to keep the fans at bay, that it really is preposterous.

MacBook Pro - swap drives at will
Mac Pro - swap drives at will
Mac Mini - swap drives at will
iMac (pre-2009) - swap drives at will
iMac (09/10) - swap drives from same company, or swap drives and purchase specific cable
iMac 2011 - swap drives and have to install software because Apple was keen on limiting you (currently) to what they offer

I'm sure Apple later on down the road will resolve this. I'm sure enough people will complain and they will issue an EFI/system firmware update to resolve this (ie. if you have an Apple drive, it will use the new temp sensor tech, if non-Apple firmware drive is detected, it will use SMART data.) I can see a class action lawsuit due to this (people have sued for less frivolous stuff prior to this.)

Personally, I think an ideal solution would be offering a firmware updater for the hard drive (like back in the OS 9 days) where if you get a drive that Apple offers (like a WD Caviar Black) that you can just install Apple's firmware for temp sensing onto the drive. That way if you, say, reinstall OS X, or upgrade the OS, thereby not allowing OS X to run the HD/Smart Fan Control program, it won't go wind tunnel mode while you're installing it. A low level driver/firmware installer makes sense in this case, versus a software program that has to be run at startup just to keep the machine at a normal operating sound level.

 

[maxinc]

So you should realize that when you say you had to put software on just to keep the fans at bay, that it really is preposterous.

Not exactly. Fans are quiet and stay at 1100rpm without any software. I install HDD Fan control to make sure the fans spin up in the event the hard drive overheats.

 

[iSayuSay]

Depends where you go. Both places in my city (Edmonton, AB) charge 1.0hr labour to install a new drive (no OS install, you can do that yourself later and not get charged what they charge. MyMacDealer charges $95/hr. Westworld charges $109/hr.

As for Apple's price on the SSD, for a 256GB drive it's not bad. For a 3Gb/s drive. $550 gets you a 240GB OCZ Vertex 3 which will run circles around any other non-Sandforce based SSD. I'm debating doing this. It'd be $550 + tax ($577.50) + install ($100 with tax) + SSD pressure wall and cables (~$40.) So around $700. Ya it's a bit more, and you lose 16GB of storage space, but you gain a redonkulous amount of speed.

Shoot ... $700 surely defeat the purpose of going cheaper for me, let alone better performance. Yes, Apple´s offering price is fine, just too much for me. A smaller 120Gb SSD should be plenty for my needs, my tolerance is $300 including labor and tools

Any suggestion which brand and type of good SSD? Intel or OCZ Vertex?
And one more thing, you can actually install SSD + HDD without losing superdrive on 27¨ iMac, right?

 

[maxinc]

Any suggestion which brand and type of good SSD? Intel or OCZ Vertex?

Someone had a speed issue with the Intel D510 drive as it was only working at SATA 2 speeds so he swapped to Vertex 3. The same Vertex 3 I use and other users have reported using.

 

[tsugaru]

Not exactly. Fans are quiet and stay at 1100rpm without any software. I install HDD Fan control to make sure the fans spin up in the event the hard drive overheats.

That's if you just add an SSD with your stock drive, which you did.

The main reason people are up in arms is that if they only replace their stock HD with another drive, then the fans ramp up to 6k. Again, due to firmware.

iSay - you can get an SSD in the 120GB range for about $200. With labour (~$100) and parts (maybe ~$40) you're looking at about $340. Remember that labour is a big chunk of the cost. Maybe find someone who works on Macs, AASP or Apple store, and buy them a case of beer if they install it for you.

I do my mechanics accounting. He services my vehicles. Fair trade.

 

[maflynn]

As others have stated, the vast majority of consumers will not care.

Sure some geeks got their panties in a bind on this and specifically the move by apple is greed, pure and simple. Still the actual impact to consumers is negligible. Besides there will be work arounds and/or compatible products coming very quickly.

 

[maxinc]

That's if you just add an SSD with your stock drive, which you did.
The main reason people are up in arms is that if they only replace their stock HD with another drive, then the fans ramp up to 6k. Again, due to firmware.

Seems like you need to do some more reading. If you use a y-splitter or sata extension cable to power the new, non-apple HDD, it will neutralise the thermal sensor making the iMac think it has a SSD connected to that port. This in turns makes the iMac keep the revs to the minimum for the hdd fan while passing the AHT test successfully.

 

[iSayuSay]

Seems like you need to do some more reading. If you use a y-splitter or sata extension cable to power the new, non-apple HDD, it will neutralise the thermal sensor making the iMac think it has a SSD connected to that port. This in turns makes the iMac keep the revs to the minimum for the hdd fan while passing the AHT test successfully.

So .. even if iMac 27 have 3 SATA ports for HDD, ODD and possibly SSD, it only has 1 power cable to spare? You have to use Y Power Cable to share power between HDD and SSD? Anything wrong with my understanding?

And did you fix the fan problem with new Vertex SSD?

 

[maxinc]

So .. even if iMac 27 have 3 SATA ports for HDD, ODD and possibly SSD, it only has 1 power cable to spare? You have to use Y Power Cable to share power between HDD and SSD? Anything wrong with my understanding?

And did you fix the fan problem with new Vertex SSD?

Depending which way you will go about the install. The cheapest way I did was to use a y-spliter cable and share the HDD power with the SSD. Not very elegant but it allows you to swap the hard drive with a larger / different model without the speeding fan issue. My SSD is stuck with some velcro to the back to the chassis. Again not very elegant but since it is light and produces no heat, it only costs $2 and is quite secure.

The proper way is to use the SSD adapter holder and a original sata cable simmilar to those used on the ODD. The AASP should have the necessary parts in stock. With this method, you keep things as close to the Apple's standard as possible but it may cost you something extra for the bracket and cable.

There is no fan problem with the Vertex 3 SSD either installed alone or as an additional drive.

 

[TallManNY]

Thunderbolt externals might be expensive initially, but it isn't like a firewire 800 drive is a slow connection and those are cheap. Wireless backup to time machine is also fast or can happen late at night when computer isn't being used.

This really seems like a minor issue for all but maybe 2% of iMac owners. And certainly by the time HDs start breaking in bulk years from now, there will be numerous additional solutions to this issue as well.

 

[mac jones]

This conclusion is premature. Everything will change when Thunderbolt arrives. Perhaps this fiasco will hasten the release of thunderbolt accessories.

But as of today TB is vapor, and Apple is losing sales ; albeit, I would imagine not too many.

 

[dlimes13]

This should be a poll.

My two cents: I am not getting the new iMac because of this. The only way I will get an iMac is if I can install an SSD and HDD in it. I need both. I finally jumped and got a MacBook Pro since the hardware was finally worth the price, and now the iMac is also, but the hard drive issue is a HUGE deal breaker for me.

 

[MH01]

Not fussed about the drive, can get around that. What has completely turned me off the new iMacs is the Targert mode. Just found out that it only works for devices with a Thunderbolt out. Thats total crap for me, as I currently run my iMac at times as a monitor for my PC. So there goes that upgrade... I did not care about TB at first, now I think its a waste of my time and just sunk my planned upgrade to a 2011 iMac. FFS apple, just when other manafactures were starting to support miniDP you pull this crap and introduce an interface that will not be supported for ages (Only ATI did miniDP GPUs and I cannot see them doing TB ones)

 

[ditzy]

And im not helping? Im speaking the god damn truth. Maybe if Apple stopped bending their consumers over and giving it to them i wouldnt have to tell the truth all the time.

I can see how, comparing apple, putting in non standard hard drives into the iMac, and rape, proves your maturity and shows how valid your arguments are.

 

[Bayonetta]

I'm not really bothered about the HDD at all

I just ordered a 27" iMac with 2TB HDD, which seems more than enough for my needs at the moment. I already own 5TB worth of externals, and as the new iMac has ThunderBolt, I will probably wait for the TB drives to come out and buy one of those,if I need more space/write speed. I certainly wouldn't try to replace the HDD myself. I will be adding 8GB RAM (already ordered from Crucial) to take it to 16GB though. Having done that I can't see I will need an upgraded for a while

 

[QCassidy352]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8J2 Safari/6533.18.5)

I thought this got debunked?

 

[ezekielrage_99]

If user serviceable HDD's are no concern for most people, why is there such a big market for external hard drives if storage space is no problem?

A desktop that is less user serviceable than a laptop = fail. But people will still keep buying these iMac's so I won't be surprised if Apple in 2012 will do more funny stuff to make more profit.

If you want to upgrade your HDD, you got to pay a big Apple tax now.

Anyway, maybe some 3rd party vendor will find a solution to this barrier Apple created.

User serviceable HDD ≠ Adding more storage

I think your confusing my point... Adding more storage to any computer does not mean necessarily taking it apart to add/replace an HDD (user serviceable) thus as you've pointed out why there's such a big market for portable storage. Not everyone wants to take apart an iMac to update the HDD, most home user would go for a USB HDD and be very happy with that.

I fail to see anyone who within 6 months of buying an iMac needing to go from 2TB BTO to 3TB+... If you are in that boat you're buying an inappropriate computer for your needs, it's that simple.

Apple tax aside, you can cheaply add more storage to any Machine (not just talking Mac here) and have the added benefit of it not being tied to one specific machine as with any internal HDD.

Personally I have 3 external 2TB drives:
1 for Work
1 for Videos/Music/Photos/Home/Porn
1 for Timemachine

So I have 2 backups and the ability for not needing to tie it to one machine, plus it's far more storage for far less cost, for a few hundred dollars I have 6TB space at nearly the same price of the Apple upgrades.

 

[InuNacho]

Honestly I could care less about internal storage on the new iMacs. When I was a kid the family Mac Classic was hooked up to a 100MB scuzzy drive that was required to be turned on in order for the Classic to boot.
It felt cool flipping multiple switches and waiting for certain sounds before starting up the computer.

I'm not worried about internal storage. Down the line Apple themselves or some 3rd party will create some of firmware update that allows any drive to be put in.

 

[tsugaru]

I fail to see anyone who within 6 months of buying an iMac needing to go from 2TB BTO to 3TB+... If you are in that boat you're buying an inappropriate computer for your needs, it's that simple.

Wow. Apparently you speak for everyone. Who are you to say that someone is purchasing an inappropriate computer?

Not everyone wants/needs/can justify or afford the Mac Pro. Double the price of a 27" high end iMac for a Mac Pro with an equivalent 27" monitor for expansion isn't really my idea of price/performance.

 

[Clint007]

Well,well!

After i've read so much complaints about the non upgrade hard drive because of the pins, I decided to buy an iMac.
Many bashers is a good sign in buziness. It's mean something good ahead.

If the Mac change something, it is because they are planing the next future in that product it is not to make more money, that is baby thinking, they have a planing we don't know yet.
Thunderbolt ii is not a big use now, but watch what will come with that. All computers, not only Mac, will have that Thunderbolt and Mac will again driving the next generation of computers.

I understand why Mac didn't whant the BlueRay, because the BlueRay wave will be short live. Period.
Finally, I'm buying iMac because of the Thunderbolt generation.

 

[ezekielrage_99]

Wow. Apparently you speak for everyone. Who are you to say that someone is purchasing an inappropriate computer?

Not everyone wants/needs/can justify or afford the Mac Pro. Double the price of a 27" high end iMac for a Mac Pro with an equivalent 27" monitor for expansion isn't really my idea of price/performance.

You're unfamiliar with how Apple works...

It doesn't matter how many people say "i want a user serviceable HDD with an iMac" it's not going to happen. I would love to see an iMac with a user serviceable CPU, GPU, HDD, but it's just not going to happen too soon on the the "consumer-side" Mac products.

By this rationale the HDD iPods should be user serviceable as well.

I'm not speaking for everyone here, but look at like this if you buy an iMac with the need for +2TB of internal storage then you aren't necessarily purchasing the best possible solution, that's my point. Not saying it's right or wrong it's just how it is.

Either you can:
1) Put up with it.
2) Buy and extra external drive (USB, Thundercats, etc...)
3) Bite the bullet and get a Mac Pro.
4) Try some uber iMac hack and void the warranty.
5) Protest and buy a dell instead
6) Complain on a Mac forum with some quality trollbait

 

[clyde2801]

The 2011 imac manual says that it 'does not have any user-serviceable parts except the keyboard, mouse and memory'. For service, take to an apple store or an authorized Apple service provider'.

Obviously then, if a consumer screws something up during a DIY install, it is not covered by warranty. Nor is the installed part covered under warranty.

A possible solution is to find a good 3rd party authorized repair shop and see if they'll do an install and if they'll cover the part. (Mine would install the drive only for $85-100.) My local one said he could install a SDD, and suggested I'd probably want to take my iMac to them for any applecare work needed after that. Another solution may be to get the install invoice from the shop and keeping it to show the apple store that the install was done by an authorized shop.

Considering that I really don't truly NEED an SSD and want to keep all of iMac 's warranty options open, I'm thinking about setting this upgrade out at least until my extended applecare is up.

I just hope the third party shop can stay in business for another three years; I believe my local area is just down to one since the apple store opened in the mall.

 

[MacAndMic]

Apple just took away a choice you had previously. Was it because it caused service and support headaches? Or is it that they can now convince hardware manufacturers to support TB as anyone who wants more HD space has to buy a TB device.

Hmmmm................

This thread is playing out well with TB.

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1154508/