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How powerful is iPhone compared to PSP & DS?
- Thread starter BergerFan
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Hmm, you must have missed the news awhile back that Nintendo is working with Apple to bring games to the iPhone. It was all over the net, but now with the release of the SDK and the news of it's power, I at least am hopeful that the iPhone will be seen as not just a phone, but as a mobile computing platform.
Will it [iPhone] out sell the DS and the PSP? I doubt it (and I love both my DS and PSPs) but will it offer a completely new and innovative gaming experience along with everything else that the iPhone can and will [eventually] do and put all other "cellphones/smartphones" to shame? YES! (imho)
Firstly I'm only back for a bit whilst I research up on the iPhone.
But this is wrong. Pure and simple wrong. Nintendo make games for their own hardware. You think that because they make both a touchscreen and gyro based gaming systems that they're considering making games for the iPhone? No. Just no and drop any ideas of this happening any time soon.
Nintendo make software for their hardware. Its a driving force behind their hardware sales. It's why you don't get Twilight Princess or Mario Galaxy on the PC.
If anything they might get a license to bring some kind of software alternative and aid to the iPhone, like some kind of special portal for Nintendo goodies. But never expect full blown Nintendo games.
But on topic it'll never cut into the DS or PSP due to the lack of buttons. Yes touch is good, Nintendo and Apple have been telling us this for a while but look at the DS. It's not possible to get the majority of established gaming genres onto a touchscreen. The iPhone is worse too because theres no absolute precision that you can almost get with a stylus.
I do foresee some excellent games. I'm downloading the SDK now with the aim of producing games for it.
Maybe the iPod continues to sell because not everyone is a hardware geek and some people care more about good user interfaces and ease of use then some spec sheet.
The iPhone and Touch will be the first cell or multimedia based device that will offer serious competition to the PSP and DS. While they are pretty much dedicated gaming devices the iPhone/Touch will be sold to a much wider audience who wouldn't ever consider buying a dedicated device which with the ease of downloading apps wirelessly could have a big impact even if it's a casual gaming device.
First off, I am not personally saying this will happen (though I do think it could), other people reported this all over the place months ago and, WOW, I didn't realize you were such an authority on Nintendo and that you know absolutely what they are, or are not going to do. Just an FYI; I used to work at Philips Media back when they made their CDi machine and at the height of Nintendo's rule, they [Nintendo] licensed games for our machine as well, so it's not inconceivable that they would also make games for the iPhone.
If you would have read the article I linked to (and it's one of many that discuss this: google it) the reason Nintendo WOULD possibly do this; when asked if this would cut into the Nintendo DS sales the answer was "...a resounding no. The logic is that because the licensed games will be exclusive and cater to an older audience they should not intrude into Nintendo’s existing markets."
As I mentioned as well that I don't think it would out sell a PSP or DS, but NOT because of the lack of buttons. I think some of you that keep mentioning this have no imagination and no capacity for forward thinking. It is EXACTLY this type of thinking that ALL cellphone companies have had which is why most cellphones have been unchanged in the way they function until the iPhone came along; and it's exactly this thinking that caused all those companies and people (like you?) to say the iPhone would never succeed... and yet, here we are with a very successful new platform.
So you go ahead and keep thinking that the lack of physical buttons means it can't be good or can't come close to a PSP or a DS while me and many others will look forward to the future of true innovation and the dawn of a new way of interfacing. (Do you remember when Apple dropped the floppy drive from their computers and the entire industry was in an uproar over it... well show me a modern computer with a floppy drive now! Same thing here and with the Macbook AIR, Apple pushes forward with innovation and the rest will eventually follow...)
Ok sorry, I'll get off my soapbox now, didn't mean to be so long winded with all of this, but it really does amaze me the lack of imagination and forward thinking on this "Apple-based" forum sometimes. So many people keep saying this or that can't be done because it's not how all the other old companies have been doing it for years... but THAT is the wrong way of thinking if you want innovation to move forward.
Ok, now I'll get off my soapbox.
I would suggest instead, that the majority of people buying an iPod, do so based on its marketing and name, rather than having any idea of what its UI is.
As you say, most people are not geeks. They just want a player and they recognize the iPod name. I know my father-in-law did so.
if it had a complicated interface, your father-in-law would have probably been more likely to choose something else. marketing is a big part of just about any successful product.
First off, I am not personally saying this will happen (though I do think it could), other people reported this all over the place months ago and, WOW, I didn't realize you were such an authority on Nintendo and that you know absolutely what they are, or are not going to do. Just an FYI; I used to work at Philips Media back when they made their CDi machine and at the height of Nintendo's rule, they [Nintendo] licensed games for our machine as well, so it's not inconceivable that they would also make games for the iPhone.
If you would have read the article I linked to (and it's one of many that discuss this: google it) the reason Nintendo WOULD possibly do this; when asked if this would cut into the Nintendo DS sales the answer was "...a resounding no. The logic is that because the licensed games will be exclusive and cater to an older audience they should not intrude into Nintendo’s existing markets."
As I mentioned as well that I don't think it would out sell a PSP or DS, but NOT because of the lack of buttons. I think some of you that keep mentioning this have no imagination and no capacity for forward thinking. It is EXACTLY this type of thinking that ALL cellphone companies have had which is why most cellphones have been unchanged in the way they function until the iPhone came along; and it's exactly this thinking that caused all those companies and people (like you?) to say the iPhone would never succeed... and yet, here we are with a very successful new platform.
So you go ahead and keep thinking that the lack of physical buttons means it can't be good or can't come close to a PSP or a DS while me and many others will look forward to the future of true innovation and the dawn of a new way of interfacing. (Do you remember when Apple dropped the floppy drive from their computers and the entire industry was in an uproar over it... well show me a modern computer with a floppy drive now! Same thing here and with the Macbook AIR, Apple pushes forward with innovation and the rest will eventually follow...)
Ok sorry, I'll get off my soapbox now, didn't mean to be so long winded with all of this, but it really does amaze me the lack of imagination and forward thinking on this "Apple-based" forum sometimes. So many people keep saying this or that can't be done because it's not how all the other old companies have been doing it for years... but THAT is the wrong way of thinking if you want innovation to move forward.
Ok, now I'll get off my soapbox.
Exactly, and look where that left them. Which is why ever since the events of the CDi Nintendo haven't touched licensing games to non-Nintendo hardware. The 3 worst Zelda games (using the term game loosely) and some very nasty Mario game.
As for lack of imagination - bare in mine I'm an independent game developer
I'm all for new methods of interaction but buttons are needed for the vast and overwhelming majority of popular (read marketable) genres. Nintendo have arguably pushed the levels of interactions in the gaming medium further than anyone else lately but even they retained buttons. Just stop for a second and consider that gyroscopes and touchscreen can be used as navigation and movement devices in games but what about impacts and other interactions?You'd also be limited to 2 buttons with the touchscreen.
Some games get away with this. LocoRoco being the most obvious. But look at games that try to use both methods - Animal Crossing, Advance Wars are much slower in some areas and much more limited than the full button setup.
Also as I said before - lack of precision.
Dropping an old limited medium is worlds away from dropping a necessary input method for complex and playable games.
Hmmm... good point actually. I was the game test supervisor on most of those games... and they did suck pretty hard!
As for lack of imagination - bare in mine I'm an independent game developer
I know, I checked out your site and like what you are doing and what you are all about.
I do agree with you for the most part, but that is taking into consideration the current type of games that are out there. What I am saying is that the iPhone's lack of buttons will force developers to rethink how a game is made and really push them into a whole other direction (and create completely new genres.) Yes, of course, most of today's most popular and most marketable games couldn't be done as well on the iPhone... but tomorrow's iPhone games (which could be the wave of the future) could never be done on current systems with buttons, certainly not as elegantly as on the iPhone.
I think we are close (5 years maybe?) to finally putting an end to the past 30+ years of button pushing gaming. And 20 to 30 years from now, when Apple releases to the mass market the direct-neural plug-in computer that jacks into your brain everyone will say "Hey, that won't be any good, you have to have a multi-touch screen with 3-axis accelerometers for a real computing experience!" (because at that point, EVERYONE will be using that as standard. This is what Apple has always done... they don't invent this stuff, but they take it out of the research labs and into the hands of the consumers and years later everyone follows along and it becomes the standard and people forget how it all came to be. From the first GUI based computer with mouse, to the first multi-touch iPhone/computer platform.)
Again, even Sega's engineer during the SDK event said that after playing Super Monkey Ball on the iPhone he may have a hard time going back to button pushing games...
Either way, it's all exciting for everyone. It's only going to push Sony and Nintendo to make cooler stuff as well.
My idea of a game dock...
This is my concept of a game dock for the iPhone. Not only is it a case, but also has extra battery power and an amp for increasing the music/sound output. Enjoy!
There was a patent filed recently by Apple that showed a slate like device, ie. an iPhone or iPod Touch being augmented by hardware templates, these overlays could either be a physical keyboard or in another example a joypad for playing games.
Whilst i personally don't like this idea as it covers part of the screen, i could envisage a toughened case with an internal 30pin connector and on one end there's a D-Pad controller and on the other a couple of fire buttons. All it would take is for Apple to spec the physical interface and provide a controller API and then let the market decice how big/neat this gamer case should be, along with could and how protective you want to make it. This would be awesome if you could sell it for $20-30.
Great for shoot em ups, FPS, footie and any game that demands jabbing a physical button til your thumb hurts without breaking your shiny $399 toy.
M.
This is my concept of a game dock for the iPhone. Not only is it a case, but also has extra battery power and an amp for increasing the music/sound output. Enjoy!
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I agree, sorry for being harsh but I swot up on this kind of stuff and I'm a stickler for details
But yea theres a lot of potential. I doubt the iPhone is going to replace my DS or PSP but it will sit besides them as a gaming platform if Apple and their devs pull the right punches. Monkey Ball? I'd buy that in a split second. Peggle and any LocoRoco style games are instant buys too. Priced right and with the ability to redownload deleted games and it's going to be huge. IMO bigger than mobile gaming which is a stagnant, uneventful market bringing in mediocre and lacking gameplay.
Anyways to the topic at hand - the iPhone/iPod Touch are much more powerful than the PSP or DS but remember it's also running an OS and apps behind the game. So the megahertz comparison is going to be worse of a comparison than PPC vs Intel. Unless there's a way to absolutely switch off all external apps and switch the OS into an exclusive gaming mode? (I dunno my SDK is still downloading)
But yea theres a lot of potential. I doubt the iPhone is going to replace my DS or PSP but it will sit besides them as a gaming platform if Apple and their devs pull the right punches. Monkey Ball? I'd buy that in a split second. Peggle and any LocoRoco style games are instant buys too. Priced right and with the ability to redownload deleted games and it's going to be huge. IMO bigger than mobile gaming which is a stagnant, uneventful market bringing in mediocre and lacking gameplay.
Anyways to the topic at hand - the iPhone/iPod Touch are much more powerful than the PSP or DS but remember it's also running an OS and apps behind the game. So the megahertz comparison is going to be worse of a comparison than PPC vs Intel. Unless there's a way to absolutely switch off all external apps and switch the OS into an exclusive gaming mode? (I dunno my SDK is still downloading)
When Ford rolled out his 1st horseless carriage, people asked "where are the reins?"
Hi guys!
I'm a long time macrumors reader, but have never feeled the urge to post as like i've felt now.
You are all forgeting.... the iPhone DOES video-out! So you can hook it up to your TV Set and use it just as a controller to your videogame on the big screen.
IMHO this offers a great new wave of possibilities, since yo don't need to stare at the little screen to play, just move it and touch it!!
PD: Sorry for my bad english....
I'm a long time macrumors reader, but have never feeled the urge to post as like i've felt now.
You are all forgeting.... the iPhone DOES video-out! So you can hook it up to your TV Set and use it just as a controller to your videogame on the big screen.
IMHO this offers a great new wave of possibilities, since yo don't need to stare at the little screen to play, just move it and touch it!!
PD: Sorry for my bad english....
Let me guess, you're the guy that said Wii would never cut into PS3 and XBOX, right?
I understand your point, but I think you, and developers, need to think outside the box and come up with some new ideas of how games are played. Buttons are quickly becoming a thing of the past. Multi-touch, physical motion, and voice are the controls of the future.
Congratulations - you don't know me at all
I never even saw the PS3 or 360 as competition for the Wii even before it hit the market, much to the annoyance to some members of the console board here. And no. Buttons aren't leaving gaming. They didn't even leave the iPhone or iPod Touch (5 and 2 buttons each) which are less complex than a full blown dedicated gaming device! They're a requirement because-
-They offer tactile feedback unlike touch controls.
-They offer obvious degrees of pressure (again it's just the drastic lack of tactile feedback).
-You can't have triggers with a touchscreen, very much required for analogue control.
-No precision without stlyus.
-Fingers/input device must be over the screen obscuring view (VERY annoying in Zelda and other DS games)
And I also knew the Wii and DS were always going to come out top since they aimed the devices into the casual markets too
So be gone with all these complaints about horse drawn carts. Progression is one thing but you some of you guys are really getting confused about interfaces and gaming inputs!
And btw have you ever tried to play TF2 with just your voice? lol.
I agree, sorry for being harsh but I swot up on this kind of stuff and I'm a stickler for details
No problem.
That is a very good point. One of the reasons I always preferred console gaming over PC gaming is because consoles were optimized specifically for gaming and gaming alone. The iPhone, as great as it is still has to allow the phone to ring and for sms messages to come through, etc. So it will be interesting to see what developers will be able to do with this.
I have the impression that an add on connector via the docking port is unlikely.
First, the iPhone SDK doesn't permit access to the port so that would limit development of such a connector to either Apple or some partner with the pockets to negotiate a license. That's certainly possible, but not something that is likely in the near future.
Secondly, it's likely that Apple would prefer developers to be innovative and use the built in controllers like the touchscreen and the accelerometers to create inventive and unique games following the example set by the Wii. It would also cause developers to focus on the iPhone's other features that can be leveraged for gaming and are lacking in the competition, such as the possibility of mobile multiplayer gaming via the EDGE or, hopefully, 3G.
Additionally, the path of using add on connectors to give mobile devices gaming controls has been followed in the past with little success, largely because the connectors are both unwieldy and conflict with the aesthetics of the device. Both Palm and PocketPC's have had similar connectors and appealed to a very small subset of the market. The reason is that once you attach modules to the device one of the most appealing features of the device, the ability to keep it in your pocket and handy, is vastly diminished.
I think a more interesting possibility is bypassing the dock entirely and instead using the headphone wire as the location of a thumb controller where the current control button is located except down the wire further. For games that require a d-pad controller, like platform games or shooters, the player would hold the iPhone or Touch in one hand hold the controller in the other. This would bypass the limitations of the SDK without interfering with the appearance of the phone.
It's also important to remember that as fun as games on the iPhone may eventually be, the mobile game market is probably just an experiment for Apple at this point. For right now, customers aren't buying iPhone's to play games. They're buying them for their phone and media capabilities. Apple will probably not want to see the phone perceived as a gaming toy but rather as a high powered mobile device that can also handle some casual games.
First, the iPhone SDK doesn't permit access to the port so that would limit development of such a connector to either Apple or some partner with the pockets to negotiate a license. That's certainly possible, but not something that is likely in the near future.
Secondly, it's likely that Apple would prefer developers to be innovative and use the built in controllers like the touchscreen and the accelerometers to create inventive and unique games following the example set by the Wii. It would also cause developers to focus on the iPhone's other features that can be leveraged for gaming and are lacking in the competition, such as the possibility of mobile multiplayer gaming via the EDGE or, hopefully, 3G.
Additionally, the path of using add on connectors to give mobile devices gaming controls has been followed in the past with little success, largely because the connectors are both unwieldy and conflict with the aesthetics of the device. Both Palm and PocketPC's have had similar connectors and appealed to a very small subset of the market. The reason is that once you attach modules to the device one of the most appealing features of the device, the ability to keep it in your pocket and handy, is vastly diminished.
I think a more interesting possibility is bypassing the dock entirely and instead using the headphone wire as the location of a thumb controller where the current control button is located except down the wire further. For games that require a d-pad controller, like platform games or shooters, the player would hold the iPhone or Touch in one hand hold the controller in the other. This would bypass the limitations of the SDK without interfering with the appearance of the phone.
It's also important to remember that as fun as games on the iPhone may eventually be, the mobile game market is probably just an experiment for Apple at this point. For right now, customers aren't buying iPhone's to play games. They're buying them for their phone and media capabilities. Apple will probably not want to see the phone perceived as a gaming toy but rather as a high powered mobile device that can also handle some casual games.
As someone with a perspective on the gaming industry, let me chime in here.
Firstly, the specs may be slightly misleading. Granted, the iPhone is probably more powerful than the PSP, at least from a CPU perspecitve and possibly GPU wise. However, unlike PSP games, iPhone games are going to be running on top of a bulky (relatively speaking) OS. The level of optimization will not be the same- so I don't think iPhone games will look quite as good as PSP games. Still, they should look darn good once developers get a handle on it- definitely better than DS games.
Now, for actual gaming. The accelerometer is pretty cool, but there's a downside, namely, that shifting the accelerometer shifts the users view as well. That limits the accelerometer's usage, since you can't be expected to shake around the phone- you won't be able to see what you are doing. So, limited to subtle usage only.
Now, the DS has proved that you can make very complex and in-depth games using just a touch screen. But the DS has a second screen- the advantage of this is being able to see what you're doing while your fingers obscure the touch screen. iPhone devs will need to work around this.
How about marketplace? The iPhone sport's the DS's casual games appeal, and the PSP's do-everything philosophy/multimedia capabilities, but has the disadvantage of having a price tag vastly higher. It's not going to knock either of the players out of the market- in fact, at $129, it's not even going to touch the DS. PSP might have to worry a little, but the iPhone still has no major exclusives, so...we'll see.
What Apple needs to do is court the big studios to get exclusives. However, I doubt Steve cares enough about gamers to do this. If Apple were to secure an exclusive Dragon Quest or Final Fantasy, for example, the iPhone as a gaming platform would take off rapidly.
Hi. This is a great idea.
But video out only works in photo/video album mode. So the question is, does the SDK allow a user program to enable output as well.
From my understanding of the MBX Lite, the PSP has the same or higher graphics capability. The PSP GPU runs at 166mhz while the MBXL runs at 100 (or so) in the iPhone. The PSP can output up to 33 million poly/sec while the iPhone can do around 7. Basically the iPhone is a mini dreamcast while the PSP is a mini PS2 (in terms of GPU ability). Apple really should have gone with the SGX, then they would have Gamecube/Wii levels of GPU power.
As far as getting DQ or FF on the iPhone, it is possible. Of course it would help more having the iPhone in Japan first as those kind of games are more popular there.
I know everyone is excited about the iPhone having great games, I am too, but I am not sure if every genre translates to multitouch and accelerometer very well. 2D platformers would be good, 3D platformers would be difficult. Sports games would be hard, as would 3D FPSes.
So you add a controller to the iPhone, well as people in the console world know, if it doesn't come in the box (or as a part of a game which you can't do on a digital download) it doesn't sell well. So you can't gaurantee that everyone will have the controller add-on so you really can't program for it exclusively otherwise you reduce your userbase thus reducing your $$.