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Naimfan

Suspended
Jan 15, 2003
4,669
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Take a look at an E46 (that's a 1999-2005 model year 3 Series) BMW 325Xi/328Xi or similar. Terrific in the snow and very reliable IF properly maintained. Also relatively affordable since the advent of the newer E90 series. You could probably also find a early E90 with all wheel drive and be within your budget.

I have a non-X (a 2001 325i) and with good snow tires I can get almost anywhere - the snow we had Wednesday/Thursday was only a problem on the side streets, and then only because of the limited ground clearance.

The biggest thing with an Audi, or a BMW, or a Volvo, Mercedes, Saab, etc., is maintenance. If you follow the maintenance schedule, most of them will be rock-solid. Problems occur when people defer or just ignore maintenance beyond changing the oil, etc.
 

mkrishnan

Moderator emeritus
Jan 9, 2004
29,776
15
Grand Rapids, MI, USA
I had the same thought when I read the original post. Subaru makes great cars and are very good in the snow. I had a Legacy GL-10 Turbo wagon (stick shift!) which an awesome car, and a lot of fun to drive.

Does anyone have any of the latest Subaru redesigns? I'm very impressed, at least on paper, with the fuel economy gains their American models had in the last year or so. I mean, the economy is nothing like a B/C non-lux car that gets 40+ mpg on the highway, but it's a lot better than it used to be (and I'm sore about how poorly my Mazda6 does).
 

Lord Blackadder

macrumors P6
May 7, 2004
15,662
5,496
Sod off
When discussing reliability, it's important to remember two things about luxury cars:

  • They are often designed to require more maintainence, and are expected to be owned by people who can afford to fix anything when it breaks.
  • They have more gizmos or state-of-the art features, i.e. more things that can break.

The bottom line is, cheaper cars are more reliable in the sense that a car like a Camry will run for years with little maintainence, whereas a BMW will develop little niggly problems like a switch failing, a power seat malfunctioning, a tire pressure sensor burning out etc etc. It's not that they are poorly made, but they are more complex vehicles and they don't take abuse as well. And, more importantly, parts and service cost more.

I remember, when shopping for my Forester, I priced out a clutch job, shocks/struts, brakes, timing belts and so forth for all the cars on my wish list. The BMW and Audi service and parts costs were much higher, sometimes double, compared with the plebian Japanese cars.

Does anyone have any of the latest Subaru redesigns? I'm very impressed, at least on paper, with the fuel economy gains their American models had in the last year or so. I mean, the economy is nothing like a B/C non-lux car that gets 40+ mpg on the highway, but it's a lot better than it used to be (and I'm sore about how poorly my Mazda6 does).

I've been somewhat disappointed in Subaru lately - their new 'economy' model that gets better gas mileage is just a smaller engine (a 2.0 liter) with a consequent drop in power from the trusty 2.5. PLEASE SUBARU, BRING THE BLASTED DIESEL HERE, FOR CRYING OUT LOUD. They already sell it in Asia and Europe, and have been for 2 years....:mad:
 

dukebound85

macrumors Core
Jul 17, 2005
19,123
4,097
5045 feet above sea level
That also reminds me...
Here in the rockies "regular" unleaded is 85 octane. I assume an Audi will not run on that... will a Subaru?
Also, what will a Subaru run on? 85 as well or does it need mid-grade?
If I keep the car for 150k miles fuel starts to add up, so I might as well figure that into the cost.

Back to the cars, I've always like the GTI VW, it's just that again, it's not AWD, which at this point I'm leaning towards.

I live in colorado and love my subaru imprezza outback sport. 85 is fine for it

This last snow we got 2 days ago was not a problem at all. My old celica would have been stuck easily

----------

I've been somewhat disappointed in Subaru lately - their new 'economy' model that gets better gas mileage is just a smaller engine (a 2.0 liter) with a consequent drop in power from the trusty 2.5. PLEASE SUBARU, BRING THE BLASTED DIESEL HERE, FOR CRYING OUT LOUD. They already sell it in Asia and Europe, and have been for 2 years....:mad:

That reason is why I opted for the tested/proven 2.5 as well as the ability to have more power if I want it

Even then, I still average about 27mpg, which is great
 

Lord Blackadder

macrumors P6
May 7, 2004
15,662
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Sod off
That reason is why I opted for the tested/proven 2.5 as well as the ability to have more power if I want it

Even then, I still average about 27mpg, which is great

I get around the same in my Forester, but I've heard the new Subarus with the 2.5 don't do quite as well because they are heavier.
 

Lord Blackadder

macrumors P6
May 7, 2004
15,662
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That's not bad for AWD, although I'd been hoping for better.

Is the consensus on the AWD Mini that it's hopelessly bloated, or is it at all worth considering?

I hate it. The point of the Mini is that it's small. There's really nothing small about the Countryman. I'm sure it's nicely put together but it's no Mini as far as I'm concerned. You're better off with a Merc/BMW/Audi AWD sedan or wagon IMO.

I class the countryman in the same 'yuck' category as the Hummer H3 - a rather silly 'lifestyle' vehicle.
 

monokakata

macrumors 68020
May 8, 2008
2,035
582
Ithaca, NY
The OP did ask about mileage. I forgot to mention that my 328xit (auto trans) has never drifted much up or down (like .5 mpg) from 25, overall, for those 110K miles. I reset that display every 30K miles or so, so it's a meaningful average.

On the highway, keeping to the speed limit, it gets 29 and sometimes 30. Pushing it (75-85), 27. Totally stuck in a city, very low 20s.
 

sjinsjca

macrumors 68020
Oct 30, 2008
2,238
555
The only car that ever stranded me in the middle of the road was our Audi.

If you want reliability, buy Japanese. For snow situations, it's hard to beat a Subaru. Great driving cars, too-- particularly with manual transmissions.
 

mgartner0622

macrumors 65816
Original poster
Jun 6, 2010
1,018
0
Colorado, USA
I hate it. The point of the Mini is that it's small. There's really nothing small about the Countryman. I'm sure it's nicely put together but it's no Mini as far as I'm concerned. You're better off with a Merc/BMW/Audi AWD sedan or wagon IMO.

I class the countryman in the same 'yuck' category as the Hummer H3 - a rather silly 'lifestyle' vehicle.

I can't decide whether or not I like the Countryman. It drives and handles nicely (although not as well as a real Mini, much more body roll) but it seems like a Cooper went on the opposite of a diet.

I've always liked the Cooper as well, although I've never heard of anyone taking one past 200k miles.
 

Lord Blackadder

macrumors P6
May 7, 2004
15,662
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Sod off
I see the countryman as a lamentable attempt to cash in on the profitable SUV craze that is now over 30 years old and seems like it is here to stay forever. :(
 

mikeyredk

macrumors 65816
Mar 13, 2003
1,267
1
I would like to make a suggestion what about the A3 TDI? Just make sure you put on good snow tires.
 

puma1552

Suspended
Nov 20, 2008
5,559
1,947
lol

at this thread degrading down the ******* from Audi to Subbie

lol

I have to agree a little bit here, seems like every thread here turns into a "Buy a Subaru" thread, no matter how the thread started or how it should've went based on what the OP was looking for.

Nice cars, but not even comparable to an Audi. That said, I'd avoid an Audi like the plague. Overengineered like all of the Germans. Friend has had two, both of them were only a few years old with low miles, and they were both nightmares. Stories of Audi's stubborn reluctance to trace down electrical problems on in-warranty cars (because they know they can't find the problem) is a real turn off too.

I had two German cars myself, an E36 and an E30 BMW. The E30 was an alright car for what it was and left me stranded only once in the year I had it before unloading it, and the E36 was the biggest pile of junk I've ever had bar none. I had full service records back to Day 1 and it was indeed immaculate (owned by someone who could afford the car and who DID do the recommended services, etc.) and I ended up dumping eight grand on it in repairs over four years. Not maintenance, just repairs, many of which left me with a $150 towing bill to get it off the side of the road, plus diagnostic, plus parts and labor to actually fix it. And when I sold it to get it out of my sight? It needed $4500 in work on top of the $8k I'd already spent, literally. Poor bastard who bought it wanted to have it inspected, and did, but made the mistake of choosing his own mechanic inspect it instead of a BMW dealer. On the plus side I got good money on the sale.

I'm very cautious about buying German. The wife wants either a Cooper or a C300, but I'm very leery. I've had all the big ones--the Germans, the Americans, and the Japanese. The Japanese cars are bulletproof if boring, the American cars have by and large been excellent for me (though I've only bought the classic RWD V8 cars, Camaro/Mustang etc.), but the Germans have been absolute shitboxes, as have the late model, low mileage Germans of friends.

"Oh but they run so great when there is nothing wrong with them." Too bad that was never in four years with that E36. It ALWAYS needed something. My Mustang runs great when there is nothing wrong with it too, and so far that's been every day that I've owned it. I thought about buying an '01 740iL in Imola Red (rarest color, and best looking 7 IMO) but I asked around on 7-series forums and the owners flat out admitted the car would ruin you, coming in at $3k for catalytic converters, etc and simply weren't worth it despite how beautiful and comfortable they are. Coupling absolutely asinine prices like that with my past history with BMW, I decided there was no reason for me to put 1000% profit in someone else's pocket every other week, and bought a different car and have had zero issues.

Buy German only if you have a very steady career and don't mind $1000 surprise repair bills. You will seldom if ever see a sub-$500 parts and labor bill. IME, they simply aren't worth the extreme price premium and inevitable downtime, especially if this is your Monday morning car that needs to start and needs to get you to work at 7 AM.
 

mgartner0622

macrumors 65816
Original poster
Jun 6, 2010
1,018
0
Colorado, USA
I have to agree a little bit here, seems like every thread here turns into a "Buy a Subaru" thread, no matter how the thread started or how it should've went based on what the OP was looking for.

Nice cars, but not even comparable to an Audi. That said, I'd avoid an Audi like the plague. Overengineered like all of the Germans. Friend has had two, both of them were only a few years old with low miles, and they were both nightmares. Stories of Audi's stubborn reluctance to trace down electrical problems on in-warranty cars (because they know they can't find the problem) is a real turn off too.

I had two German cars myself, an E36 and an E30 BMW. The E30 was an alright car for what it was and left me stranded only once in the year I had it before unloading it, and the E36 was the biggest pile of junk I've ever had bar none. I had full service records back to Day 1 and it was indeed immaculate (owned by someone who could afford the car and who DID do the recommended services, etc.) and I ended up dumping eight grand on it in repairs over four years. Not maintenance, just repairs, many of which left me with a $150 towing bill to get it off the side of the road, plus diagnostic, plus parts and labor to actually fix it. And when I sold it to get it out of my sight? It needed $4500 in work on top of the $8k I'd already spent, literally. Poor bastard who bought it wanted to have it inspected, and did, but made the mistake of choosing his own mechanic inspect it instead of a BMW dealer. On the plus side I got good money on the sale.

I'm very cautious about buying German. The wife wants either a Cooper or a C300, but I'm very leery. I've had all the big ones--the Germans, the Americans, and the Japanese. The Japanese cars are bulletproof if boring, the American cars have by and large been excellent for me (though I've only bought the classic RWD V8 cars, Camaro/Mustang etc.), but the Germans have been absolute shitboxes, as have the late model, low mileage Germans of friends.

"Oh but they run so great when there is nothing wrong with them." Too bad that was never in four years with that E36. It ALWAYS needed something. My Mustang runs great when there is nothing wrong with it too, and so far that's been every day that I've owned it. I thought about buying an '01 740iL in Imola Red (rarest color, and best looking 7 IMO) but I asked around on 7-series forums and the owners flat out admitted the car would ruin you, coming in at $3k for catalytic converters, etc and simply weren't worth it despite how beautiful and comfortable they are. Coupling absolutely asinine prices like that with my past history with BMW, I decided there was no reason for me to put 1000% profit in someone else's pocket every other week, and bought a different car and have had zero issues.

Buy German only if you have a very steady career and don't mind $1000 surprise repair bills. You will seldom if ever see a sub-$500 parts and labor bill. IME, they simply aren't worth the extreme price premium and inevitable downtime, especially if this is your Monday morning car that needs to start and needs to get you to work at 7 AM.

This is what I was concerned about when I started the thread. It kind of seems like a gamble when one buys a german car, because I know some people with 180k and no problem, when another person has 8k and already has had the car in the shop a multitude of times. At this point I just don't know if it's a good idea.

To the poster a few above, I'd love an A3 TDI but they are pretty expensive and hard to find. I have not seen one under 30k.
 

acidfast7

macrumors 65816
Nov 22, 2008
1,437
5
EU
This is what I was concerned about when I started the thread. It kind of seems like a gamble when one buys a german car, because I know some people with 180k and no problem, when another person has 8k and already has had the car in the shop a multitude of times. At this point I just don't know if it's a good idea.

To the poster a few above, I'd love an A3 TDI but they are pretty expensive and hard to find. I have not seen one under 30k.

You know, after driving/riding in a few Audis/MBs this Xmas break on the autobahn, I've come to the opinion that they're really wasted in the US.

As the poster above stated, these cars are very overengineered BUT for specific reasons (i.e. driving styles) that you won't run into in the US.

I drove back from Frankfurt to southern Germany on Christmas eve, and the traffic was kinda of stop-and-go but not US-style, more German-style stop-and-go, which is 0-100mph sprints, driving 100-120mph for 10 minutes, then having the entire A5 autobahn stop from 120mph to 0 hard enough for the ABS to activate. Wash, rinse, repeat every 15 minutes for about 200 miles.

Once we were on the A7, it was constant 120mph driving for another hour or so.

Basically, these cars are (over)engineered for much more aggressive situations than in the US. I wouldn't want to drive a Subaru for two hours at 120mph (and I owned a Saab 9-2X, which was somewhat good in the snow with ****** all-season tires for 2 years).

In the end, they're much better cars (a hell of a lot quieter and easier to drive constantly at high speeds ... more relaxing for a quick trip over the Alps to Italy for a cheese/wine pick-up), but as always you have to pay to play, and they'll nickel-and-dime you (but when you pay 100€/130USD for a tank of gas, a 500USD repair isn't so much) to death if you consider that they'll be wasted in the states.

For what it's worth, I did just have the timing changed for 384€ including labor (4 hours), which is actually LESS than it would take to change it on a boxer-4-cyl in a Subaru.

And, the person that said you should buy a BMW should be shot in the head unless they were referring to a 3/5-series AWD (X drive OR any used version with an X in the model number) wagon, which are quite rare in the US.
 

Naimfan

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Jan 15, 2003
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And, the person that said you should buy a BMW should be shot in the head unless they were referring to a 3/5-series AWD (X drive OR any used version with an X in the model number) wagon, which are quite rare in the US.

The person that wrote the above should be shot in the head for failing to read. ;)

The wagon is not necessary; any "X" BMW will be good in snow. And as noted, even a non-X BMW is fine provided you use quality snow tires.
 

acidfast7

macrumors 65816
Nov 22, 2008
1,437
5
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The person that wrote the above should be shot in the head for failing to read. ;)

The wagon is not necessary; any "X" BMW will be good in snow. And as noted, even a non-X BMW is fine provided you use quality snow tires.

Don't be a like that. Anyone who lives in the snow belt and has driven a RWD BMW, knows that they are quite poor in the snow compared to a FWD/AWD Audi regardless if they're sporting Nokians or not.

The X wagons are extremely nice and one would be fool to purchase a non-wagon over a wagon.
 

Lord Blackadder

macrumors P6
May 7, 2004
15,662
5,496
Sod off
Don't be a like that. Anyone who lives in the snow belt and has driven a RWD BMW, knows that they are quite poor in the snow compared to a FWD/AWD Audi regardless if they're sporting Nokians or not.

The X wagons are extremely nice and one would be fool to purchase a non-wagon over a wagon.

I've driven a number of RWD cars in Ohio, Michigan, Nevada and Alaskan winters and I can tell you that, while AWD is better, RWD is perfectly driveable even in bad snow as long as you have good snow tires. Up here in Alaska, there are (for some reason) a lot of old W123 diesels driving around and they do just fine. As I said earlier in the thread - its the people with AWD that are actually more likely to get stuck through overconfidence and driving too fast.

acidfast7 said:
lol

at this thread degrading down the ******* from Audi to Subbie

Nice cars, but not even comparable to an Audi. That said, I'd avoid an Audi like the plague. Overengineered like all of the Germans. Friend has had two, both of them were only a few years old with low miles, and they were both nightmares. Stories of Audi's stubborn reluctance to trace down electrical problems on in-warranty cars (because they know they can't find the problem) is a real turn off too.

A hilarious dichotomy - dismiss the cheaper car out of hand, and then claim that the more expensive car should be "avoide[d] like the plague". I think both halves of that bit of advice are ultimately unhelpful.

The whole "overengineered" claim is a stereoype that is only partially true. There are plenty of American (i.e Quad 4) and Japanese (i.e. Hondas with four wheel steering) designs that are over-engineered and suffered poor reliability as a result. There are quite a few Audi designs (such as the 1.8-2.0 turbo engines) that are pretty bulletproof.

Buy German only if you have a very steady career and don't mind $1000 surprise repair bills. You will seldom if ever see a sub-$500 parts and labor bill. IME, they simply aren't worth the extreme price premium and inevitable downtime, especially if this is your Monday morning car that needs to start and needs to get you to work at 7 AM.

As a counterpoint to your story, I have several friends with German cars, and none have gone through any of the horror stories you allude to. One Audi owner I know does have a car with a lot of problems - but it's an early Audi 80 with well over 300,000 miles on the clock, so it is not really fair to use that car as an example. Another friend of mine has a late 90s A4 V6 and it has been quite reliable. Still another friend used to drive a 7-Series. He got rid of it because routine maintenance costs were high, but it never had breakdown issues. I know several other people with Audis, BMWs and Mercs, and while they complain about maintenance costs none of them have a particularly unreliable car.

You know, after driving/riding in a few Audis/MBs this Xmas break on the autobahn, I've come to the opinion that they're really wasted in the US.

<snip>

Basically, these cars are (over)engineered for much more aggressive situations than in the US. I wouldn't want to drive a Subaru for two hours at 120mph (and I owned a Saab 9-2X, which was somewhat good in the snow with ****** all-season tires for 2 years).

Yes, and revolutionaries in Libya mounted ZU-23 anti-aircraft cannon in the back of Toyota Hilux pickups and use them as technicals, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't enjoy the reliability and toughness of Toyota pickups here in the States.

Likewise, the advantages of the best German cars (sharp handling, powerful engines, luxury appointments, good safety features) are not "wasted" just because we don't regularly cruise at triple-digit speeds. 0-75 sprints on a US interstate are nearly as demanding as your hypothetical 0-100 sprints.

In the end, they're much better cars (a hell of a lot quieter and easier to drive constantly at high speeds ... more relaxing for a quick trip over the Alps to Italy for a cheese/wine pick-up), but as always you have to pay to play, and they'll nickel-and-dime you (but when you pay 100€/130USD for a tank of gas, a 500USD repair isn't so much) to death if you consider that they'll be wasted in the states.

For what it's worth, I did just have the timing changed for 384€ including labor (4 hours), which is actually LESS than it would take to change it on a boxer-4-cyl in a Subaru.

And, the person that said you should buy a BMW should be shot in the head unless they were referring to a 3/5-series AWD (X drive OR any used version with an X in the model number) wagon, which are quite rare in the US.

They were referring to the 3 series Touring, as a matter of fact.

If it was up to you, apparently we'd all be driving Chevy Malibus or Ford F-150s, since anything better is "wasted in the States"? Good grief.

Again, I think the over-engineering claims are stereotypes that are partially true, but definitely not generally the case - and not limited to German cars either. The German cars are expensive luxury cars - they are always going to cost more, on the whole, than more plebian brands. However, people who claim that (for example) Lexus and Infiniti models are cheaper to run than the German cars are either misinformed or flat out fibbing. The same goes for other luxury brands such as Volvo, Cadillac or the recently departed SAAB.

The timing belt job on a 4cyl Subaru runs about $600 in my experience FWIW.

I'm not trying to sell Subarus, or any specific car for that matter. I probably won't buy another Subaru myself, since life is too short to buy the same car twice. But they are good cars overall, and while they might not excel at cruising at 120mph for hours on an autobahn, they are adept at driving up steep snowy drives - and that was a major topic of this thread.

As a sum up - I think all the brands we discussed are good candidates, depending on what the buyer decides he or she wants. I reject the claims that German cars are all unreliable and expensive basket cases or that they are "wasted" here by virtue of being too nicely built. They do cost more money to buy and run than a non-luxury/near-luxury car like a Subaru though, and that needs to be taken into account by any prospective buyer.
 

Macky-Mac

macrumors 68040
May 18, 2004
3,489
2,531
..... And, more importantly, parts and service cost more.

I remember, when shopping for my Forester, I priced out a clutch job, shocks/struts, brakes, timing belts and so forth for all the cars on my wish list. The BMW and Audi service and parts costs were much higher, sometimes double, compared with the plebian Japanese cars.

.....

That pretty much sums it up.

I've had a TT for over 7 years and it's had very few issues, and only 1 since the warranty ended. Repair shops, not so many around; labor charges, universally very expensive.

If you're thinking of buying a used car for budget reasons, an Audi simply isn't an inexpensive car to maintain
 

Naimfan

Suspended
Jan 15, 2003
4,669
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Don't be a like that.

Just following your lead . . . ;)

Anyone who lives in the snow belt and has driven a RWD BMW, knows that they are quite poor in the snow compared to a FWD/AWD Audi regardless if they're sporting Nokians or not.

What an ignorant statement . . . I live in Colorado and the only time I have a problem in snow is when there is too much of it. With good snow tires, I can get anywhere - and I've had a FWD Audi. Nice enough car, but no thanks - very different "feel" compared to BMW.

The X wagons are extremely nice and one would be fool to purchase a non-wagon over a wagon.

I believe the converse is true. It's fine to state an opinion, but you should refrain from stating it as if it were a fact, especially when you failed to read the first line of someone's post.
 

Lord Blackadder

macrumors P6
May 7, 2004
15,662
5,496
Sod off
I don't buy in to extreme loyalty to one brand or another. There are a lot of enthusiasts out there who swear by x brand and have nothing good to say about others. I don't think that such opinions are really accurate or useful. Audi, Mercedes and BMWs all make very good cars. Each brand has some unique qualities but frankly, I could be perfectly happy in any of the three.

I would also argue that today's BMWs, Mercs and Audis are more similar to each other than they were 20 years ago.
 

puma1552

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Nov 20, 2008
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Lord,

That's fine if your friends have had good luck. I speak from first-hand and second-hand experience with numerous cars, and none of them have been particularly reliable, but rather they've been nightmares overall. I'm sure there are good ones out there, that doesn't discount my experience. The cars are engineered in the electrical department; as an engineer myself, we must remember--good engineering is simple engineering, but most people outside of the field get that backwards. Coincidentally enough, electrical problems are the hardest to diagnose and repair.

It's not fun when all the lights on your Audi-in and out, including your headlights-shut down at 70 MPH on an unlit freeway.

The OP was looking to buy a car that could last cheaply and reliably to 150k miles. Audi simply isn't going to be that car. Based on the vibe I get from the OP and his needs, he'd likely be better off taking his chances with a Honda/Toyota. He doesn't strike me as the type who's going to enjoy required expensive maintenance inspections every 10-15k miles.
 

Lord Blackadder

macrumors P6
May 7, 2004
15,662
5,496
Sod off
Lord,

That's fine if your friends have had good luck. I speak from first-hand and second-hand experience with numerous cars, and none of them have been particularly reliable, but rather they've been nightmares overall. I'm sure there are good ones out there, that doesn't discount my experience. The cars are engineered in the electrical department; as an engineer myself, we must remember--good engineering is simple engineering, but most people outside of the field get that backwards. Coincidentally enough, electrical problems are the hardest to diagnose and repair.

It's not fun when all the lights on your Audi-in and out, including your headlights-shut down at 70 MPH on an unlit freeway.

I have a friend who had a catastrophic electrical system failure on his 2007 Dodge 2500. I had another friend who had all the dash lights in his 91 Nissan Maxima die - at night, on the interstate. The aforementioned friend with the Audi 80 had his center diff explode while driving. The timing chain on my Toyota Hilux snapped while I was driving down a residential street (thousands of miles before it was due to be changed).

Our family once had an '88 Jetta. That car was the biggest lemon I have ever seen. I'm not going reproduce the endless list the faults it had; let's just say that, after 5 years (when it was finally paid off), it was due for the scrap heap, and my old man was at his wit's end with it. A friend of mine picked up a very similar Jetta some years later and drove it for years with zero problems. Now my friend swears by VW, and my old man still wouldn't touch one with a ten-foot pole. Nothing anyone says will ever convince him that VW builds anything but dangerous, slap-dash pieces of junk. Period. His experience formed his opinion, and that opinion is not going to change.

Some Audis are notoriously unreliable - a good example is the old Audi V8 (pre A8). I'm certainly not discounting your experience. But the way you tell it, these machines are so bad it's a miracle any are still on the road. That simply hasn't been my experience. I haven't owned an Audi myself, but I have had three good friends/coworkers who own one (one 80, one A4 and an A8). The 80 is a battered old wreck, but the A4 and A8 have been reliable cars.

With that being said, anyone looking to buy a German luxury car must be prepared for higher maintenance costs compared with the economy brands.

The OP was looking to buy a car that could last cheaply and reliably to 150k miles. Audi simply isn't going to be that car. Based on the vibe I get from the OP and his needs, he'd likely be better off taking his chances with a Honda/Toyota. He doesn't strike me as the type who's going to enjoy required expensive maintenance inspections every 10-15k miles.

Funnily enough, if you look on any Audi forum you'll see a different story. You can find horror stories for any car (my Hilux for example, one of the most reliable cars on the planet), but the majority of the stories you hear are not going to be that bad.

The fact remains, of course (as I said before) - luxury German cars cost more to buy and run than economy brands.

The cost of an Audi is the reason I mentioned Subaru (after which I was criticized for "degenerating" the discussion) since they are among the most reasonably priced cars that come with standard AWD. If you absolutely refuse to believe that any manufacturer apart from Honda and Toyota build reliable cars, you can always get a Rav 4 or CRV, or any other Honda/Toyota SUV.
 

monokakata

macrumors 68020
May 8, 2008
2,035
582
Ithaca, NY
And, the person that said you should buy a BMW should be shot in the head unless they were referring to a 3/5-series AWD (X drive OR any used version with an X in the model number) wagon, which are quite rare in the US.

Well, that person was me. What I wrote was straightforward and shouldn't have been hard for you to read (and comprehend):

"You might look for a 3-series BMW with their X-drive (AWD).

I have one that I drive in Western NY's "snow belt," and it's never let me down. I live in hilly country, with narrow roads and it handles winter beautifully without snow tires.

It's a 2007 (fall 06) 328xit and I've put 110K on it."

X wagons rare? Not anywhere I've lived.

Shot in the head, indeed. Man, you've got a great way with words.
 
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