I have driven my Subaru all over the country. It runs just fine on 85 octane, as should all the non-turbo 4 cylinder Subarus. My understanding is that Audis all require 91 octane, as do the turbo Subarus.
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
How reliable are Audi's? Any suggestions for good snow car w/ decent fuel mileage?
- Thread starter mgartner0622
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
mgartner0622 said:
With a limited slip differential (especially a mechanical unit like a Quaife), and on roads, it's hard to tell the difference between an AWD and a FWD car. Very hard.
On our hypothetical snowy hill, pitting an A4 Quattro against a GTI (with a limited slip) would be a very close battle - tire choice would matter much more than the drivetrain differences. The Audi has a clear advantage over a stock GTI without an LSD though.
I filled my tank with a gallon of 85 octane and it still worked fine when I had my Audi. So, it will run. I'm sure if you use an octane booster, it'll be just fine. But, in any case, I filled the rest with 91 when I had the chance. All high performance engines and luxury cars need to be filled with 91 octane. Some people try and get away using 87 octane and it works with no problems usually. It's easy enough to change it to 91 if you notice a difference. Also, it's up to you since the pricing may be different.
We fill our Volvo with 87 (or 85) octane and I'm pretty sure I should be putting in 91 octane. No issues though.
Modern ECUs are smart enough to detect what kind of fuel you put in and adjust the engine programming accordingly. the old fears of blowing up your engine if you put regular gas in a premium fuel car in are mostly history - unless you put diesel in it.
However, while running 85-87 octane won't necessarily harm an Audi engine, it will result in significantly reduced power output and fuel economy, negating the benefits of having the fancier engine in the first place. And sometimes it makes the engine run dirtier.
I think diesel just won't ignite properly, that's all. It'll need to have the fuel lines, tank and injectors drained and a new tank of gas at least, but con rods won't burst through the oilpan or anything...
That's what I thought exactly. I wasn't using it at the time at its performance ability, just routine stop and go.
Even so, I wouldn't want to see the bill for that. Fuel delivery systems are carefully tuned for certain types of fuel - the higher viscosity of the diesel might ruin the injectors, or at least require extensive cleaning. Yuck.
If you have no other choice, 85 octane will get you home and won't damage anything. But if you want to see your car working at its advertised performance level, it's obviously best to use the recommended fuel grade. Turbos are especially susceptible in this case.
Two people in office with Audi both looking for non-Audi cars.
One is bad with services because he can't afford it. The other is good with services. But both see Audi as unreliable.
Interesting. I don't have any experience with a limited slip differential. All I know is that in my Camry, when I get stuck, it's pretty much stuck. The last time I was unable to get out was about 2 years ago with 20" of snow. I was parked on the side of the road and one tire just spun while the other remained still. I'm guessing I have a "slip" or regular differential in my current car which probably contributes to some of my traction issues.
Do most cars now have an Anti-Slip?
Nope. Most cars use an open differential, which means that the wheel that spins gets all the torque - this is the opposite of what you want when you have one wheel spinning uselessly in the snow. In other words, most cars and trucks are one-wheel drive if a wheel is slipping.
However, most cars these days also come with some sort of "traction control", which often just means that the computer applies the brakes slightly when a wheel begins slipping. In an open differential, this causes some torque to shift to the other wheel, helping prevent wheelspin. But its abilities are limited.
A true limited-slip differential (LSD for short) provides at least some torque to both wheels on the axle all the time. I've seen the difference and it's huge. A friend of mine installed an LSD in his Acura Integra, and it made a massive difference in wet/snow traction.
In any AWD car, there is a center differential that splits torque between the front and rear axles. The ratio can be fixed or may vary. In my manual transmisison Forester, for example, each axle get 50% of the engine's torque at all times. In an automatic transmission Forester, 80% of the torque goes to the front axle unless the computer detects wheelspin, in which case it gets split 50/50 front/rear.
This means that, in an AWD car with an open differential on each axle, at least two of the wheels will be getting torque at any given time, even if all four wheels are slipping.
My particular Forester came with the "S" package, which, among other things, adds a viscous-coupling limited slip in the rear axle. This means that in my car, if all four wheels are slipping, 50% of the torque will go to the front axle, through the open differerential and to whichever wheel is spinning faster, while the other 50% will go to the back axle, where some torque will go to each wheel. This makes my Forester essentially three-wheel drive when all four wheels are slipping, thus (at least potentially) boosting traction by 50% over a similar Forester with no LSD.
A car with an LSD in both front and rear axles is truly "All Wheel Drive", in the sense that all four wheels will always be getting torque, regardless of which wheels are spinning. Relatively few cars are so equipped.
Last edited:
^ Thank you for taking the time to explain all that. Does this essentially mean a FWD car like my Camry is one wheel drive if the traction is not adequate? And the worst wheel at that, because it gives the power to the wheel that actually does not have traction?
Pretty much. Let's say you put one wheel in a snowy/muddy ditch and the other is on dryish pavement, and the wheel in the ditch is spinning. In your Camry, the wheel in the ditch is going to get all the torque from the engine, and none will go to the wheel on the pavement that has traction.
A car with an LSD would send at least some torque (maybe 20-50%) to the grippy wheel, and that might be enough to get you out of trouble.
Had a 2000 GTI VR6, it has "EDL" which is a poor-excuse for a limited-slip. (it applies braking to the spinning wheel, to send power back to the gripping wheel)
In theory, it works - however couple that with ASR (anti-slip) which detects wheel spin, and cuts engine power to prevent it - and you have a situation in the snow.
Putting in a real limited-slip differential made the biggest difference of anything done to that car. (including tires, suspension, tuning, ect...) In the snow, I could actually go places, and managed to stay on the road, while people in SUVs and Jeeps would skid out of control.
The bigger surprise was in the dry weather. Corners / ramps that I could take at 45mph, I could now take at 60mph, and still accelerate. (whereas before, the tire would just howl with throttle applied, with no speed gained).
Now I'm on a diesel kick... and depending on how bad torque steer gets with the new chip - I may be getting an LSD once again... This was supposed to be an economy car...
In theory, it works - however couple that with ASR (anti-slip) which detects wheel spin, and cuts engine power to prevent it - and you have a situation in the snow.
Putting in a real limited-slip differential made the biggest difference of anything done to that car. (including tires, suspension, tuning, ect...) In the snow, I could actually go places, and managed to stay on the road, while people in SUVs and Jeeps would skid out of control.
The bigger surprise was in the dry weather. Corners / ramps that I could take at 45mph, I could now take at 60mph, and still accelerate. (whereas before, the tire would just howl with throttle applied, with no speed gained).
Now I'm on a diesel kick... and depending on how bad torque steer gets with the new chip - I may be getting an LSD once again... This was supposed to be an economy car...
I am a big advocate of the LSD. Most car companies tell you that you need AWD in bad weather. There is no doubt that AWD aids traction, but they are not really telling the whole truth there.
Think of it this way. A FWD car with an LSD sends torque to two wheels at all times. An AWD car/SUV without an LSD (many don't have one) sends torque to...two wheels at all times. The difference in traction is probably negligible most of the time.
The only downside with the LSD on the front axle is that, under acceleration, you can get some stiffer steering feedback than you would with an open differential. But that is a minor quibble when you factor in the increased traction.
The moral of this story is that a FWD card with good snow tires and an LSD is just as good in bad weather as most SUVs, since both will be effectively two-wheel drive.
Think of it this way. A FWD car with an LSD sends torque to two wheels at all times. An AWD car/SUV without an LSD (many don't have one) sends torque to...two wheels at all times. The difference in traction is probably negligible most of the time.
The only downside with the LSD on the front axle is that, under acceleration, you can get some stiffer steering feedback than you would with an open differential. But that is a minor quibble when you factor in the increased traction.
The moral of this story is that a FWD card with good snow tires and an LSD is just as good in bad weather as most SUVs, since both will be effectively two-wheel drive.
All of this information about Audi's has been really informative, and in regards to winter driving especially what Lord Blackadder said about the anti-slip differentials really was really interesting as I did not know.
After learning this, I'll take a look at more FWD cars that have an Anti-Slip differential.
I really appreciate everyone's advice, but to be honest I'm still not sure about buying an Audi, or any other car for that matter. I guess I'll just have to keep looking around and find the one that I truly enjoy driving. What I might have to do is just continue using my current car (after all, it's paid off, insurance is cheap and it gets great mileage) and save up for something like an (almost) new STI or an Audi with very low mileage. Price wise, I would want something like the Suburban I helped my parents find, 6k miles on the clock, and the last years model, making it 15 thousand less than what the dealer was asking for.
After learning this, I'll take a look at more FWD cars that have an Anti-Slip differential.
I really appreciate everyone's advice, but to be honest I'm still not sure about buying an Audi, or any other car for that matter. I guess I'll just have to keep looking around and find the one that I truly enjoy driving. What I might have to do is just continue using my current car (after all, it's paid off, insurance is cheap and it gets great mileage) and save up for something like an (almost) new STI or an Audi with very low mileage. Price wise, I would want something like the Suburban I helped my parents find, 6k miles on the clock, and the last years model, making it 15 thousand less than what the dealer was asking for.
Decide what you want, research, research, research, and test drive. That is my advice. Most modern cars will get you through, so I don't think there are too many bad choices out there. Many people who have had 'bad' experiences started out with perhaps unreasonable expectations (and that happens more often when you buy a car you are really excited about).
EDIT: Not too many FWD cars come from the factory with a limited-slip. Off the top of my head, I can remember the old pre 1998 Nissan Altima did as an option. Others: Certain Nissan Maximas and Sentra SE-Rs, certain Civic Si models, the Integra Type R (and possibly the GSR?),the Acura RSX, The Dodge Neon SRT, the Mazdaspeed 3 and I think the supercharged version of the Chevy Cobalt. There are surely others, but the list is not very long.
The Mini Cooper S also has one (I think).
The GTI is one car that is simply crying out for an LSD. Quaife makes excellent LSDs that fit into many brands of cars, but as I said before they cost $1000 for the part plus labor. The cost is the main reason they are left out in favor of much cheaper electronic stability/traction control systems, which work but are inferior.
Verdict, it is far easier to find an AWD car than a FWD with a limited slip. But there are many different kinds of AWD out there, so it's best to read up and see what you are getting.
EDIT: Not too many FWD cars come from the factory with a limited-slip. Off the top of my head, I can remember the old pre 1998 Nissan Altima did as an option. Others: Certain Nissan Maximas and Sentra SE-Rs, certain Civic Si models, the Integra Type R (and possibly the GSR?),the Acura RSX, The Dodge Neon SRT, the Mazdaspeed 3 and I think the supercharged version of the Chevy Cobalt. There are surely others, but the list is not very long.
The Mini Cooper S also has one (I think).
The GTI is one car that is simply crying out for an LSD. Quaife makes excellent LSDs that fit into many brands of cars, but as I said before they cost $1000 for the part plus labor. The cost is the main reason they are left out in favor of much cheaper electronic stability/traction control systems, which work but are inferior.
Verdict, it is far easier to find an AWD car than a FWD with a limited slip. But there are many different kinds of AWD out there, so it's best to read up and see what you are getting.
Last edited:
You might look for a 3-series BMW with their X-drive (AWD).
I have one that I drive in Western NY's "snow belt," and it's never let me down. I live in hilly country, with narrow roads and it handles winter beautifully without snow tires.
It's a 2007 (fall 06) 328xit and I've put 110K on it. Two repairs: rear window wiper drive shaft, front door locks (popping fuse). That's it for anything that wasn't routine maintenance. I've owned cars since 1960 and this is the most reliable one I've ever had. Most fun, too.
I don't know what they go for used, though. When I was shopping, I looked at Audi A4, but I liked the BMW more. As I remember, the MSRP was about the same, so maybe the used values aren't very different.
I have one that I drive in Western NY's "snow belt," and it's never let me down. I live in hilly country, with narrow roads and it handles winter beautifully without snow tires.
It's a 2007 (fall 06) 328xit and I've put 110K on it. Two repairs: rear window wiper drive shaft, front door locks (popping fuse). That's it for anything that wasn't routine maintenance. I've owned cars since 1960 and this is the most reliable one I've ever had. Most fun, too.
I don't know what they go for used, though. When I was shopping, I looked at Audi A4, but I liked the BMW more. As I remember, the MSRP was about the same, so maybe the used values aren't very different.
Quite a bit, unfortunately - probably over $20k. BMW wagons are great, but they are also hard to find, especially the 3-Series wagons.
I actually looked into those, but they were too expensive as well, especially for the AWD models.
If the Mini Cooper has an LSD, I might actually look into that. I was told that Mini's were also "unreliable" because they require a lot of investment to keep them running. I'm guessing this is also a myth and that they are more like what I was told about Audi's in this thread, meaning if you perform the maintenance as suggested, they are fine?
I've always loved Mini's and if the part about the maintenance is true, that might be a serious consideration for me... the best part is they tend to run on the cheaper side.
I had the same thought when I read the original post. Subaru makes great cars and are very good in the snow. I had a Legacy GL-10 Turbo wagon (stick shift!) which an awesome car, and a lot of fun to drive.
I have a 4Runner, which is fantastic in the snow, but you are looking for good mileage (my 4Runner gets 17mpg, which I think is pretty good for a V8 4-wheel drive).
Acura is about to announce a new sports sedan built on the Civic chassis that looks interesting. It will offer a manual transmission and a hybrid option and will price under 30K. It will be unveiled at the January Detroit auto show.
If you're driving 80+ miles per day, reliability and fuel economy would be of prime importance. Buying a reliable new car sounds like a better idea.
If you're driving 80+ miles per day, reliability and fuel economy would be of prime importance. Buying a reliable new car sounds like a better idea.
Yeah, stuff like this is what some people talk about - how BMWs, Audis, etc aren't reliable. Apparently volvos are unreliable, but ours has had no problems since we've taken care of it. I think a Mini would be fine as long as it's looked after well.