iPod touch How the hell can Apple CHARGE for firmware?

[davidjearly]

Well Apple can call it whatever they like, but it's clearly just a minor firmware upgrade to me. What worries me the most is that a lot of the Apple customer base are actively defending Apple, and evangelising about 'the apple way' like some kind of cult!

As said before, it's more than just a 'minor' upgrade. It's a full point change with many new features and tools for developers built-in.

Whether you view those 'features' or not as minor is just irrelevant. Many would say the jump from XP to Vista was minor (or a downgrade), but people still had to pay for it.

Firmware = OS. This is a new OS.

Bandwidth, developers, support, app approvers, and so on, and so on. You think they're all paid for out of thin air? Of course Apple takes a cut.

70% of the takings or not, there will still be devs that want to sell a game for say $5 to make it look attractive, then beef up their earnings down the road when customers decide they like whatever it may be and want more.

Exactly!

Er, are you actually reading my posts? I'm not sure you understand.

Bandwidth - How does that make sense? I think you'll find the networks make the end user pay for that with their phone tariffs.

Developers - In my argument, I am the developer! Apple don't need to pay me!

Support - I don't want Apple to support my app thank you very much.

App Approvers - Let me get this straight. You think I should be ok giving Apple 30% revenue of my application to pay for their "App Approvers"? Are you for real?

Ok. Try SDK/API development, hosting, payment processing, delivery method, advertising.

Are you for real?

 

[aristobrat]

Bandwidth - How does that make sense? I think you'll find the networks make the end user pay for that with their phone tariffs.

Good Lord.

When a developer writes a program, how does he get it to people?

Normally he puts it on his website and people download it.

His webhost charges him by how many KBs of data his website uses.

So if he develops a 100MB program and 200,000 people download it a month, he uses 200,000,000MB of bandwidth on his webhost distributing his program.

That's not cheap, and it's got NOTHING to do with the users bandwidth.

 

[edesignuk]

Er, are you actually reading my posts? I'm not sure you understand.

er, do you read, understand and take on board anything?

Bandwidth - How does that make sense? I think you'll find the networks make the end user pay for that with their phone tariffs.

I think you'll find Apple have to pay someone (ISP) an enormous amount of money for the amount of bandwidth they require to deliver all their services to you.

Developers - In my argument, I am the developer! Apple don't need to pay me!

Support - I don't want Apple to support my app thank you very much.

Developers and support staff for the App Store and everything that entails itself. It's a big operation.

App Approvers - Let me get this straight. You think I should be ok giving Apple 30% revenue of my application to pay for their "App Approvers"? Are you for real?

No. I think 30% is not unreasonable for the service they provide (as a whole) to you as a developer.

 

[zephead]

Obvious troll is obvious.

 

[sjleworthy]

yup, his last thread was anti-apple too.

i cant see why people make Apple an issue in their lives.

i got a Touch and i love it, but it isn't the be all and end all in my life. i got more serious things to worry about and enjoy than that. Apple to me are just a company; i neither like them or hate them. i couldn't give a toss for the sake of letting my pride or disgust for Apple getting in the way.
It's only a few bucks, not exactly going to break the bank (or piggy bank) even for most of the children that seem to frequent this place. I really cant see why it makes people angry.
Bloody pay the upgrade and move on, who cares? and why? get a life.

 

[4DThinker]

Ok, instead of debating the value of a firmware update, lets look at 3.0 another way. The UI hasn't really changed, so this doesn't look much like a new OS to me.

3.0 is new versions of every app. For one small fee you can update every standard app on your Touch to include cut.paste.copy, search, push notification, and other features specific to each app. Apple will throw in new improved drivers for the Bluetooth chip in the 2nd gen Touch. What is all this worth? $100? $200? No! For a limited time only you can have all this and more for a mere $9.95. No tax. Free shipping!

But why do iPhone owners get it all for free? Apple makes more money from iPhone owners. It's their psychological (warfare) strategy to make you wish you'd gotten an iPhone instead of a Touch. Each time they do this many Touch owners break down and buy an iPhone. Admit it, you wish 3.0 would be "free" for you too, don't you? All you need is an iPhone......

Be strong. Resist that temptation. You can still choose to NOT upgrade for $9.95. Don't succumb to Apple psycho-torture!

4D

 

[4DThinker]

I really cant see why it makes people angry. Bloody pay the upgrade and move on, who cares? and why? get a life.

I'm happy to see it doesn't make you angry.

 

[Happy Meal]

yup, his last thread was anti-apple too.

i cant see why people make Apple an issue in their lives.

i got a Touch and i love it, but it isn't the be all and end all in my life. i got more serious things to worry about and enjoy than that. Apple to me are just a company; i neither like them or hate them. i couldn't give a toss for the sake of letting my pride or disgust for Apple getting in the way.
It's only a few bucks, not exactly going to break the bank (or piggy bank) even for most of the children that seem to frequent this place. I really cant see why it makes people angry.
Bloody pay the upgrade and move on, who cares? and why? get a life.

Hi Steve. I am not "Anti-apple" per sé. I love the ipod touch, its sexy interface and sleek design. Who wouldn't?! I guess it's I just feel I have a moral responsibilty to warn less technical people about this company. The firmware charge is the final nail in the coffin really. My issue isn't with people that simply 'like' apple products. My issue is the way in which the company condition their fan base into a blinkered sect of evangelists that won't accept any form of critisism.

Simply looking at some of the posts on here scares me slightly. Such as some guy in the advice thread saying things like "How do I convince my friend it's better for him to buy a macbook instead of a vaio for $1000 more". Why should you want to??! Let people save $1000 if they want to!

Indeed, I have heard cases of some families on low incomes being given ambiguous reasons and just some plain lies, just so they spend £1200 on a mac when they could have been just fine with a budget pc for £300.

It's stories like this that cause me to greatly concerned. Being a 'fan' is fair enough, but this level of evangelism and consumer conditioning is getting a little out of hand.

 

[edesignuk]

I'd be more concerned with the amount of time and effort you like to spend spewing nonsense at forums for which you clearly don't like the product/company.

Now naff off. kthxbai.

 

[Happy Meal]

I'd be more concerned with the amount of time and effort you like to spend spewing nonsense at forums for which you clearly don't like the product/company.

Now naff off. kthbai.

Says the user that has made almost 18,000 posts? I do like the products, I just have concerns about the company.

Edesignuk, if you want to contribute then please do, but comments like this aren't helpful so please leave the thread.

 

[sjleworthy]

Hi Steve. I am not "Anti-apple" per sé. I love the ipod touch, its sexy interface and sleek design. Who wouldn't?! I guess it's I just feel I have a moral responsibilty to warn less technical people about this company. The firmware charge is the final nail in the coffin really. My issue isn't with people that simply 'like' apple products. My issue is the way in which the company condition their fan base into a blinkered sect of evangelists that won't accept any form of critisism.

Simply looking at some of the posts on here scares me slightly. Such as some guy in the advice thread saying things like "How do I convince my friend it's better for him to buy a macbook instead of a vaio for $1000 more". Why should you want to??! Let people save $1000 if they want to!

Indeed, I have heard cases of some families on low incomes being given ambiguous reasons and just some plain lies, just so they spend £1200 on a mac when they could have been just fine with a budget pc for £300.

It's stories like this that cause me to greatly concerned. Being a 'fan' is fair enough, but this level of evangelism and consumer conditioning is getting a little out of hand.

i suppose it's just what people feel. but i certainly see your point. i actually side with it on a few points, i probably would have just worded it differently

i've used pc's in my work for 20 years or so, and apples for around 5 or 6. it's my pro-mac friends that get on my nerves more than the pc crowd. I sit on the fence and only use macs and pcs to suit me and further my own progress.

personally, i MUCH prefer the pc's os. hands down. i think the mac os stinks, but thats just my opinion. my apple mates think i'm nuts. but on the other hand, i much prefer the apple hardware solution. an 8-core mac pro to me is much more faster and stable than it's pc brother. then i'll go install XP64 on it.
See? who cares. there is no 'best', thats your choice.

as for the ipod, i love it because it's just too damn sexy for words. for me it could be pc or apple or anyone else. i dont care. But, if certain peeps are prepared to stand up for apple to die a horrible death just to justify how wonderful they are then again, their choice. and if apple want to exploit this with large prices then again, it's a free country.

it wont stop me paying the money.

 

[edesignuk]

Says the user that has made almost 18,000 posts? I do like the products, I just have concerns about the company.

I do [mostly] like the products/company. My posts aren't the surprise. Your being here is.

Edesignuk, if you want to contribute then please do, but comments like this aren't helpful so please leave the thread.

My most insincere apologies.

 

[gnasher729]

Well Apple can call it whatever they like, but it's clearly just a minor firmware upgrade to me. What worries me the most is that a lot of the Apple customer base are actively defending Apple, and evangelising about 'the apple way' like some kind of cult!

As a software developer, I can tell you that this is in no way a "minor firmware upgrade". If you think it is a "minor firmware upgrade" and not worth the money, then don't buy it. If you think it is worth the money, then don't complain.

iPhone OS 3.0 is what hundreds of developers have been working on since OS 2.2. That is millions and millions in development cost.

When a developer writes a program, how does he get it to people?

Normally he puts it on his website and people download it.

Slight mistake there: Normally, he puts it on his website and nobody downloads it. The whole point of the AppStore is that your application is somewhere where people will actually look for it and find it.

And "people download it" is fine for free apps, but not if you want to get paid. If you sell an application for $2.99, I think it will be quite a challenge to be able to sell it for total cost of 90 cents, even from your own website.

 

[gnasher729]

This allows a dev to produce a game and publish it at a lower cost. Those that like the game can then spend a little more for extra levels that have cost the dev in time and money to produce.

Joswiak showed quite a few other uses as well: For example, if you buy your turn-by-turn software, the developer can then sell you separate maps for different regions, or sell you map upgrades every few years. Or sell you a database of speeding cameras and charge for it. Or add paid services like life traffic information. With eBooks, right now the developer has to turn each book into a separate application which is nonsense. In the future, they can have one eBook application and you can buy any number of books.

 

[sjleworthy]

out of interest, what percentage do Apple take from the developer for every app sold?

 

[edesignuk]

out of interest, what percentage do Apple take from the developer for every app sold?

30%.

 

[sjleworthy]

thank you.

 

[4DThinker]

out of interest, what percentage do Apple take from the developer for every app sold?

$99 up front.
30% of retail price for every sale. Devs get 70%.

 

[old-wiz]

A major release for only $10? sounds quite reasonable to me. No one is being forced to buy the upgrade. Compared to cost of apps, it's not a big deal.

 

[richpjr]

I'm a developer. I fully understand the costs of what it takes to release an upgrade. And while you can debate the semantics of whether this is a major or a minor update, it's pretty simple - you can pay for it or not pay for it as you see fit. I'll pay for it, but it still irks me that I have to.

What is more irking is how people jump all over anyone who dares question the practice. I can make a pretty good guess that if you swapped the names Apple with Microsoft, you'd have a FAR different reaction from these same people for the same practice.

 

[aristobrat]

What is more irking is how people jump all over anyone who dares question the practice.

When the people who have done the research on the issue all come back with the same conclusion (which is "based on the way that Apple decided to book the revenue for iPod touches, any update that adds major new functionality must be sold for a fee, per GAAP guidelines"), the only thing that seems questionable is Apple's initial decision on how to book iPod touch revenues, and even then, that's not clear cut as it seems that their position when the touch was first launched was that they were NOT going to update it ever to run third-party native apps. (i.e. the iPod touch would never be receiving updates containing major new functionality, nor would it ever have feature parity with the almighty iPhone). It wasn't until about three months of major uproar from consumers AFTER that decision that Apple did a complete 180 on their stand (on both the touch and the iPhone).

Again, what's to question? Based on the analyst reviews of the issue I've seen, Apple cannot undo the decision that resulted in them charging for iPod touch upgrades.

 

[plumbingandtech]

How the hell can Apple charge for firmware on the ipod touch? It proves to me they must think their customer base are a complete load of idiots to me.

This is completely unheard of on all other platforms:

Windows: Free updates / Service packs
Windows Mobile: Free updates. Free Apps and added functionality
Xbox Live: Free firmware for more functionality
Playstation 3: Free firmware for more functionality

How the hell can someone post a thread on a subject that has been answered many times over?

USE the search to find out why they MUST.

I am seriously losing patience with Apple and the way they treat their customer base.

So go buy a Zune.

 

[Goona]

What a bunch of bull, us iphone users pay 100 dollars a month and you are here complaining about 10 freaking dollars. I still have my first generation ipod touch, never paid to upgrade, did it stop working because of this, heck no.

 

[IJ Reilly]

Well Apple can call it whatever they like, but it's clearly just a minor firmware upgrade to me. What worries me the most is that a lot of the Apple customer base are actively defending Apple, and evangelising about 'the apple way' like some kind of cult!

The only "cult" I see is the Cult of Gimme.

You don't want it? Then don't buy it.

FWIW, I don't know yet whether this update will be worth $9.95 to me. I'll decide when I know more about it. Either way, it's my decision.

 

[Abstract]

For 30%, Apple markets a developers app (by listing it in a central place, so the user doesn't have to search high and low over the Internet to find it), Apple handles all payments (so the developer doesn't have to get a merchant account with a payment processor that would take 10% of the revenue anyway), and Apple hosts the developers work, so the developer doesn't have to pay for bandwidth.

What are you doing? These people don't want to admit they are wrong.