Bernard SG
macrumors 65816
To what extent does the iPod Touch 4 thinness sacrifice quality and substance?
What makes you think you "speak for everyone"?
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iPod touch How thin is too thin??
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To what extent does the iPod Touch 4 thinness sacrifice quality and substance?
What makes you think you "speak for everyone"?
iPod touch 4 and iPhone 4
Both of these Apple products have made substantial upgrades from previous generations. Although I like both designs, I like the iPhone a lot better. I understand it may cost more to create the iPhone 4 but just from looking at it, to me, it provides more functionality.
Both of these Apple products have made substantial upgrades from previous generations. Although I like both designs, I like the iPhone a lot better. I understand it may cost more to create the iPhone 4 but just from looking at it, to me, it provides more functionality.
tubemonkey
macrumors 6502
That's just it, they didn't keep the same price points on all three models; just on two. So if the 8GB can go up $30 with people still buying it, then so can the 32GB and 64GB models. People will pay for increased functionality.
Check this out. A quote from Engadget when enquiring Greg Jozwiak (Apple's Vice-President of Product Marketing for iPod and iPhone) about the new Touch's camera quality:
I'd say that qualifies as a "quality sacrifice" for the thinness wouldn't you??
tubemonkey
macrumors 6502
The iPhone is definitely the better of the two. Better build quality, higher end parts, and more features.
The difference in manufacturing costs between the iPhone 4 and the iPod touch 4 is probably around $20. Won't know for sure until iSuppli does a teardown and cost analysis of the touch.
tubemonkey
macrumors 6502
alright maybe i was pushing it when i said everyone!! not everyone some people dont get it!!
The production cost for iPhone is $187.51 - that is the lower price than retail price for 8gb touch! I'm sure the new iPod touch is no more than 100$.
I look forward to that glorious day as well when Apple can bring out products that aren't going to be obscenely thin amongst other things!😀
On another note, I swear he's made this deliberately thin so we're forced into buying cases for the damn thing! (Look at it this way, Apple get licensing fees from official accessories made by other firms, so it would make sense for it to get thinner and thinner over time)
As for Steve Jobs being as stubborn as a mule when it comes to listening to the public as well as the people who buy his products, I would say that the big difference between a good CEO and a bad CEO is that a good CEO is willing to admit that they've fecked up and aren't perfect whereas a bad CEO is arrogant, stubborn and refuses to admit that they're wrong! Bobby Kotick of Activision is a example of a bad CEO and Steve Jobs is slowly heading down the path of a bad CEO!
BaldiMac
macrumors G3
Again, you are oversimplifying the situation. The 8GB jumped two generations for a $30 price jump. And that $30 price jump will cost them sales. It's basic economics. Just because people are "still buying it," does not mean they are buying it at the same rate they would at a lower price.
But, more to the point, nothing that you said applies to my question that you were attempting to answer. I was commenting on maintaining the current price points while maintaining margins and long term growth.
But Apple seems to think that they will make more money with decreased price and a thinner form factor.
That does not mean it was the only consideration.
Of course. Most people would call it a design trade off. The iPod touch could have all the functionality of an DSLR camera if it was thick enough. Does that mean it was a "quality sacrifice" to not include all of that?
BaldiMac
macrumors G3
Tinfoil hat? Licensing fees are negligible to Apple's bottom line.
Seriously, when did Jobs piss in your cheerios? Can people really not see success when it is staring them in the face?
I've got a Classic. For me, it's too thick and heavy to be comfortable in my pocket. Thin is good.
moderately
macrumors 6502
In my pants!
I finally replaced my 4g classic. I loved the way it felt in my hand- the thickness, the rounded edges, the heft, the controls easily worked with one hand. The thin edges of the new Touch are not so comfortable and of course better battery life, etc. would have been most welcome. I planned on getting a case until I slipped it into my pocket. It just about disappears. After years of having my pockets bulge with electronics this is a welcome change.
Feels great in my pants!
I finally replaced my 4g classic. I loved the way it felt in my hand- the thickness, the rounded edges, the heft, the controls easily worked with one hand. The thin edges of the new Touch are not so comfortable and of course better battery life, etc. would have been most welcome. I planned on getting a case until I slipped it into my pocket. It just about disappears. After years of having my pockets bulge with electronics this is a welcome change.
Feels great in my pants!
Compile 'em all
macrumors 601
I love all the arm-chair industrial designers filling up this thread. You guys surely know better than those inexperienced hacks working at Apple.
malnar
macrumors 6502a
You're talking only parts. Research and development is never figured into these tear-down prices, and would add greatly to the wholesale, direct-from-factory cost. From there you add in costs for everything else - that means R&D, packaging, shipping, storage, Apple stores themselves, Apple employees, etc. (and in the case of the Iphone, AT&T gets a cut, I'm sure.) When you see a price for breakdowns like that, figure it's at minimum half the actual price, and most often it's much lower than the real price. I'm always amazed at how shocked people are at how little things cost. Like companies build things for $195 and only charge $4.95 extra, and that's their profit. Figure whatever you buy, anywhere, is really worth 1/4-1/3 what you're really paying for it, and you're probably in the ballpark.
Your mindset is that of Steve Jobs. HE makes ALL the decisions; the customers be damned. I'd love to see someone take over Apple who isn't the control-freak that he is, and have Apple use focus group input before foisting another product on us that is more about FORM than FUNCTION. Even though I have a 4G, it's not exactly what it could have been, had he not be so frickin' obsessed with thinness. (that, and MINIMALISM)
They are free to not buy the products, you know. If people feel the product isn't worth what it costs, they don't have to buy it. Do you disagree?
No focus group input? Apple doesn't do research into interfaces, no prototyping, no study of how people use their devices? Interesting.
So you bought the product, and if it was better you'd buy that one too. What's Jobs to blame for here?
He has hampered my enjoyment of the product by being obsessed with thinness, which has reduced component quality (camera and battery, to name just two). JUST BECAUSE I BOUGHT IT DOESN'T MEAN IT COULDN'T HAVE BEEN A SUPERIOR PRODUCT, had Jobs not been in charge.
We ALL buy things that aren't EXACTLY what we want--we buy the CLOSEST thing. That is a fact of life. and it's a fact of life that Jobs is controlling the look, function, and features of Apple's product lines. that control has led to PLENTY of CONTROVERSIAL design decisions.
I love how people take one off-hand comment in an interview with a tech blog as definitive.
(1) You can say this kind of thing about literally every single product in the world. Every product could have been superior, if circumstances were different. Consequently, it's not really a great critique.
(2) You ascribe the iPod's characteristics to superficial decisions by Jobs, as though they were made without any constraints and Apple could have just as easily made the iPod otherwise. I think this is unreasonable.
(3) If Jobs hadn't been in charge it could also have been even less than what you wanted.
If it's a fact of life then why get so upset about it? If Jobs wasn't controlling it, someone or something else would be.
Maybe you should address what BaldiMac said earlier in the thread. I've yet to see anyone else do it.
I know it's a lot easier to say 'jobs thin obsessed bla bla bla' but that doesn't mean it's true or that the alternatives suggested are reasonable.
You CAN'T be serious. Of COURSE it's true. Apple products are PROOF he is obsessed with thinness.
I didn't think I had to draw it out, but 'Jobs is obsessed with thinness' is a pretty poor explanation for why the iPod Touch is the way it is, in terms of design, features, and so forth. To repeat an earlier point: You ascribe the iPod's characteristics to superficial decisions by Jobs, as though they were made without any constraints and Apple could have just as easily made the iPod otherwise [and up to your specs]. I think this is unreasonable. Whether Jobs is actually obsessed with thinness or not it's not like on one hand there is the option to make the iPod Touch thinner and on the other hand make the iPod Touch utterly amazing. There's a balance of costs, demand, desirable attributes, and so forth.
For example, do you really think they can make millions of iPhone cases and procure millions more camera mechanisms without affecting demand and therefore cost? Come on, man.
Also, it would be super-dee-duper if you addressed the other substantive portions of what I wrote instead of doing flabbergasted drive-bys of one comment.
(caps lock isn't an argument, btw)
Tinfoil hat? I'm more a baseball cap kind of person myself!😀
On another note, I'm more a Cornflakes type of dude myself and besides, I prefer my cereal with semi-skimmed milk than urine!😛
In any case, that's my opinion about Herr Jobs...
He may come up with products that are reasonably popular, but as a CEO, he has a long way to come before becoming a CEO that's loved by a lot of people.
It is possible to be a CEO that cares about their customers without being ruthless and arrogant towards them.